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Author Topic: '68 engine & manual tranny - how to tell if it is in fact original to car?  (Read 10833 times)
Dans 68
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« on: January 05, 2008, 12:52:02 PM »

Gents,

I'm looking at a "numbers matching" engine and 4-speed tranny Charger, and need to know what  needs to match between all the numbers found on the car. I have seen this thread http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,17398.0.html. I know that '68 is a unique case, and I realize (think?) that the cars VIN should not match the radiator and trunk lip serial numbers (which should match each other and the fender tag serial number) but what should the engine serial number and tranny numbers match, besides each other? This is my dilemma.

To recap, the engine and transmission share a common serial number (see photos below - are these the correct numbers to look at?), but neither are even close to the cars VIN or fender tag. I have not seen the radiator or trunk lip serial numbers (but I assume they are the same as the fender tag), nor the normal location for the engine serial number (# 1 cylinder by the dist cap). What do you experts say? What is the standard for '68??? Thanks!  2thumbs

Dan

Whoops...photos forthcoming....but not for a while - I need to step out now. My apologies.  brickwall

Dan
EDIT - the numbers read as "8B431711", and match each other.


* Engine_Vin.jpg (113.03 KB, 200x266 - viewed 2876 times.)

* 4-Speed_Vin.jpg (119.13 KB, 300x225 - viewed 2906 times.)
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John_Kunkel
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2008, 02:20:16 PM »


The engine and trans numbers (if present) should match each other and the last 8 digits of the VIN tag on the dash.

Some early '68's might not have numbers on the engine/trans.
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Ghoste
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2008, 02:39:31 PM »

I thought the matching numbers used in 68 were SO numbers not the VIN numbers?
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gers1968rt
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2008, 02:52:24 PM »

That is correct. My 68 rt had the numbers matching block, the numbers were on the back of the block just left of the oil pressure sender where the transmission bolts to the block. Like this number on a hemi block from a 68 charger(so i was told)


* gvb_0001.010508.JPG (63.47 KB, 522x392 - viewed 4047 times.)
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Dans 68
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« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2008, 03:11:40 PM »

That is correct. My 68 rt had the numbers matching block, the numbers were on the back of the block just left of the oil pressure sender where the transmission bolts to the block. Like this number on a hemi block from a 68 charger(so i was told)

So, in a '68 how do these numbers relate to the fender tag? Should they match? Is there another number on the block that ties it to the tag or vin?

Dan
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69CoronetRT
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2008, 03:51:03 PM »

That is correct. My 68 rt had the numbers matching block, the numbers were on the back of the block just left of the oil pressure sender where the transmission bolts to the block. Like this number on a hemi block from a 68 charger(so i was told)

So, in a '68 how do these numbers relate to the fender tag?
 
Should they match?
 
Is there another number on the block that ties it to the tag or vin?

Dan

The VIN numbers stamped on the block and tranny do not relate to the fender tag. The numbers on the block relate to the dash VIN. The fender tag numbers relate to the body (radiator and trunk rail)

Body and tag, yes. Body and engine/tranny, no.

No.

The only way to tie the VIN numbers on the engine/tranny to the Sales Order, and therefore body numbers, is via the broadcast sheet, the window sticker or a seldom found IBM inspection card.

Quote
the engine and transmission share a common serial number but neither are even close to the cars VIN...........

Then they are probably not the originals.
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Dans 68
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« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2008, 04:51:30 PM »

The VIN numbers stamped on the block and tranny do not relate to the fender tag. The numbers on the block relate to the dash VIN. The fender tag numbers relate to the body (radiator and trunk rail)

Body and tag, yes. Body and engine/tranny, no.

No.

The only way to tie the VIN numbers on the engine/tranny to the Sales Order, and therefore body numbers, is via the broadcast sheet, the window sticker or a seldom found IBM inspection card.

Quote
the engine and transmission share a common serial number but neither are even close to the cars VIN...........

Then they are probably not the originals.


So let me recap to see if I understand how a 1968 Charger is identified. The fender tag only relates to the frame of the car, i.e., the radiator support and trunk lip and thus shows that these pieces were built together at the factory. The VIN plate, located on the dash, should match with the serial number on the engine block which is located up by the distributor (see photo below), right?

Then the engine and transmission (833 in this case) should match each other using different serial numbers (other than the VIN)? I hope this is the case.... brickwall

Dan


* 383_Vin_Location.jpg (119.28 KB, 853x785 - viewed 3074 times.)
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68charger383
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« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2008, 05:03:00 PM »

The VIN numbers stamped on the block and tranny do not relate to the fender tag. The numbers on the block relate to the dash VIN. The fender tag numbers relate to the body (radiator and trunk rail)

Body and tag, yes. Body and engine/tranny, no.

No.

The only way to tie the VIN numbers on the engine/tranny to the Sales Order, and therefore body numbers, is via the broadcast sheet, the window sticker or a seldom found IBM inspection card.

Quote
the engine and transmission share a common serial number but neither are even close to the cars VIN...........

Then they are probably not the originals.


So let me recap to see if I understand how a 1968 Charger is identified. The fender tag only relates to the frame of the car, i.e., the radiator support and trunk lip and thus shows that these pieces were built together at the factory. The VIN plate, located on the dash, should match with the serial number on the engine block which is located up by the distributor (see photo below), right?

Then the engine and transmission (833 in this case) should match each other using different serial numbers (other than the VIN)? I hope this is the case.... brickwall

Dan

I'm not the expert, still trying to get a good view of my numbers to see if there matching...but I think if you have an R/T or a 383 "H" code, the spot you circled under the distributer should be a pad which shows 383 HP or 440HP...this just shows that the motor is the HIPO motor and is date correct.

As stated above, The last eight 68 vin numbers on the dash should match the should match the numbers on the spot where the block and tranny bolt up directly behind the oil sending unit or on the passenger side of the block down low near the front of the engine.


Here's two great sites to discuss this better 
http://andy440.com/other.htm   
 http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/numbersMatching.shtml


* 11223322_Small.jpg (70.86 KB, 640x589 - viewed 3061 times.)
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69CoronetRT
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« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2008, 05:19:37 PM »


So let me recap to see if I understand how a 1968 Charger is identified. The fender tag only relates to the frame of the car, i.e., the radiator support and trunk lip and thus shows that these pieces were built together at the factory. The VIN plate, located on the dash, should match with the serial number on the engine block which is located up by the distributor (see photo below), right?

Then the engine and transmission (833 in this case) should match each other using different serial numbers (other than the VIN)? I hope this is the case.... brickwall

Dan

The dash VIN matches the numbers stamped on the engine and tranny. This number, if present, is stamped by the oil sending unit on the back of the block.

The body numbers, radiator support and trunk rail, match the sales order number on the fender tag.

If the numbers stamped on the engine and tranny of the car in question do not match the VIN on the dash, they are probably not the originals. However, stamping errors exist. They could be a couple of numbers off or have a couple of numbers transposed and still be the original components.
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69CoronetRT
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« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2008, 05:22:09 PM »


I'm not the expert, still trying to get a good view of my numbers to see if there matching...but I think if you have an R/T or a 383 "H" code, the spot you circled under the distributer should be a pad which shows 383 HP or 440HP...this just shows that the motor is the HIPO motor and is date correct.


A 68 "H" code 383 is not necessarily an HP engine so the HP stamps may or may not be there.
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bull
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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2008, 05:36:24 PM »

Wow. This is as clear as mud. Tongue
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Ghoste
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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2008, 07:22:15 PM »

I understood it better when I got to the end but I was lost for a while there.
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Dans 68
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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2008, 08:00:58 PM »

I'm going to post again tomorrow once I get my brain around this...maybe I'll have a better idea on what is what then. Ah, heck, I'll try now. To be matching:

1.  The 1968 Dodge Charger fender tag matches the radiator support tag and the trunk lip tag.

2.  The VIN plate on the dash (should) match the engine. This means that if there is a stamped vin on the block they should be the same. The engine block vin can be either located at the transmission interface by the oil sender unit, or at the right front pad below the starter. But not both locations on a particular engine. And sometimes there is no vin marked on the block if it was an early production unit.

Now, please tell me what am I missing or not understanding? Thanks.

Dan
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69CoronetRT
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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2008, 08:12:34 PM »

I'm going to post again tomorrow once I get my brain around this...maybe I'll have a better idea on what is what then. Ah, heck, I'll try now. To be matching:

1.  The 1968 Dodge Charger fender tag matches the radiator support tag and the trunk lip tag.Yes

2.  The VIN plate on the dash (should) match the engine.Yes This means that if there is a stamped vin on the block they should be the same.Yes The engine block vin can be either located at the transmission interface by the oil sender unit, or at the right front pad below the starter. But not both locations on a particular engine.No. The VIN is at the back of the block. And sometimes there is no vin marked on the block if it was an early production unit.correct

Now, please tell me what am I missing or not understanding? Thanks.Sounds to me like you 've got it. cheers

Dan
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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2008, 08:33:14 PM »

color] And sometimes there is no vin marked on the block if it was an early production unit.correct

Now, please tell me what am I missing or not understanding? Thanks.Sounds to me like you 've got it. cheers

Dan
Quote

Yes and no. This car Dan is looking at is an early production '68, built on Dec. 26, '67. From what I understand the early '68s with the 383 4bbls and bigger got the partial stamp on the bellhousing flange but the 383 2bbls and smaller did not. I can't remember if this practice carried on through all of the '68 production run or if they started stamping all of them later on. I know they stamped everything for the '69 model year on the milled pad on the side of the block but not sure about late '68 models. Anyway, his is an early one so that point is moot. But, IIRC this Charger should have the stamping and it does. Now we just have to figure out what it coincides with.

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8WHEELER
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« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2008, 08:36:16 PM »

These block numbers and trany numbers, should match the last several numbers on your
Vin plate on your dash. Not all 68 383 4bbl engines have this stamp, but some do.

These numbers are off a December 67 built, 68 charger 440 HP block.
The 8 at the beginning stands for 68 model year.

Dan


* Gold_68_Charger_RT_Engine_Vin_4-A.jpg (143.86 KB, 850x752 - viewed 3396 times.)

* Gold_68_Charger_RT_Trany_Vin_1-A.jpg (98.52 KB, 700x518 - viewed 3003 times.)
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« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2008, 09:24:19 PM »

Dan
These numbers are the number that should match the last numbers on your fender tag.
Rad support number, trunk lip number, and the fender tag number and location.

I hope this clears things up for you.

Dan


* QQ1_Blue_Partial_Vin_Rad_7-A.jpg (67.61 KB, 750x572 - viewed 3002 times.)

* QQ1_Blue_trunk_number_2-A.jpg (68.33 KB, 700x468 - viewed 2932 times.)

* QQ1_Blue_Partial_Vin_FenderTag_17-A.jpg (134.78 KB, 800x698 - viewed 2995 times.)
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« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2008, 10:07:12 PM »

Pictures are worth a 1000 words.
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« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2008, 10:24:08 PM »

Pictures are worth a 1000 words.


 2thumbs  I was hoping  Grin

Dan
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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2008, 10:35:28 PM »

Sounds too confusing to me you should probably buy an original 318 68 with a /6 instead...   whistling                icon_smile_big
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Dans 68
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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2008, 10:42:24 PM »

Sounds too confusing to me you should probably buy an original 318 68 with a /6 instead...   whistling                icon_smile_big

Hah! Me thinks it is way past your bed time... nana  No serious comments to make? pity

Dan
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« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2008, 05:02:00 PM »

Hi All,

Is there always a number on the quarter truck lip?  My 68 R/T matches up from engine, trans, Radiator support, fender tag and VIN tag on the dash board.  I am unable to find the numbers on the truck lip.  Inside the truck you can see the factory undercoating on both quarters.  Any ideas?

Eric
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8WHEELER
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2008, 09:17:47 PM »

I have not seen a quarter lip area that was not stamped yet. I have heard of a car that
had no number, but someone had put a full panel on it years and years ago, so no numbers.


Dan
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pullrock
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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2008, 10:08:40 PM »

Which side of the car should it be on?  Drivers or passenger? 

Eric
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« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2008, 10:35:11 PM »

Drivers side, about half way between or in the middle of the span, under the rubber seal.
Sometimes it needs a good cleaning to find, glue can hide it a little bit.

Dan
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