Rolling Thunder's Charger Restoration Thread *PICS* *UPDATE!*

[Rolling_Thunder]

Well - I love this "bad economy" at the moment....      I got an estimate to paint my car a month or so ago of $9,000.00....     ouchy...      so...        guy calls me today and asks if I was ready to paint my car...     "sorry dude, cant swing 9K right now....      I talked to >insert competing painter< who said he can do it for $6,000.00"      "WHAT?!!?    I'll tell you what, I'm slow right now and NEED a car to do - I'll do your car for $5,000.00 if you strip it to a shell and get it to me by Tuesday" 

  So I'm currently installing some of my XV thingies as well as some other doo dads befor this bad boy goes away.  I removed the engine, trans, and K member tonight, hood, fenders, glass, all trim, and fuel system...    so i think im off to a good start...      should be pretty sweet....     

Here is a link to the 6.1L Hemi build

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,45735.40.html

[G-man]

I like the economy to.

Before we were looking at 25-30k rolling shell on a 68 charger, back when i looked. Now, I can get a driver with no rust for 25-30k.

So im in to buy 1!

Good luck with project...

Btw - Post pictures

[69bronzeT5]

Hmmm...maybe I should get my butt into gear and get my car to the body shop

[suntech]

Gotta idmit that it is doing me favors also nowadays. Right now the exhange rate is at 5 :1  (NOK: USD), and a "normal" USD to me is in the ballpark of 7,5 NOK, so i get 1/3 off, on everything i buy now. That, together with the fact that the price-level on pretty much everything here in Norway, and in the rest of Europe, is much higher. Hence also wages.
A normal factory hand in Norway is making app. 70K (usd) a year, without any overtime, with the current exhange rate!

[NHCharger]

So he's doing the job for almost half his original estimate. The chances are more than likely he'll be cutting corners.

[Rolling_Thunder]

So he's doing the job for almost half his original estimate. The chances are more than likely he'll be cutting corners.

i doubt it....      i know this guy pretty well...    he gets about 75% of the paint and body jobs my shop sends out...    so i think he knows cutting corners will not be tolerated (he also knows i used to be in charge of quality control at a paint and body shop) - so i think he was just trying to clear $4000+ profit before           

Anyway - still collecting pics guys - maybe tonight.

[472 R/T SE]

I know you said you work with him quite a bit, but I'd get some kind of written guarantee on that price. 

I think we've all heard the stories of the price doubling once the body shop tears into it. 

[Finn]

The question is, is he in California and can he offer the same deal on a 68? 

NO! bad Finn! your doing it yourself!

ahh nuts.

[DodgeChargerNeeded]

Sad to say but the ecomony is good for some and bad for some. There are a lot of good deals on a lot of cars right now. Of course that is only good for the buyers not the sellers.

[G-man]

There are a lot of good deals on a lot of cars right now. Of course that is only good for the buyers not the sellers.

[Rolling_Thunder]

Well - talked to the painter today and signed a contract for $5000.00   no more / no less....       

got my torque boxes installed today and started welding in my XV inner fender braces....     took some time to fit them but overall i'm pleased with them...     Tomarrow i need to finish installing the opposite side and the lower radiator support and finish removing my pedal assembly and some odds and ends.        

[Kevin68N71]

Sorry, this is why I am learning body and paint myself.

$5000 is an OUTRAGE just to spray paint on your car.

It's profitable for him to do it at $5000, but he WAS going to charge you $9000!!!!!

Screw people like that.

[Silver R/T]

Hmmm...maybe I should get my butt into gear and get my car to the body shop

is your mommy gonna give you enough allowance money to afford a paint job? Remember kiddo this is not like painting your little johnny die cast models

[69 OUR/TEA]

Well - talked to the painter today and signed a contract for $5000.00   no more / no less....       

got my torque boxes installed today and started welding in my XV inner fender braces....     took some time to fit them but overall i'm pleased with them...     Tomarrow i need to finish installing the opposite side and the lower radiator support and finish removing my pedal assembly and some odds and ends.        

Rolling_Thunder,I thought you did all your own paint/body work ?

[69 OUR/TEA]

Sorry, this is why I am learning body and paint myself.

$5000 is an OUTRAGE just to spray paint on your car.

It's profitable for him to do it at $5000, but he WAS going to charge you $9000!!!!!

Screw people like that.

Kevin,by the way it sounds,strip the body to a bare shell,there is alot more than just"spraying".Bodywork,priming,blocking,edging/jambing,wet sanding,buffing,etc.If you think this an outrage,don't forget that price also reflects on ones quality of work.Even though you are going to be learning and are new at this,be sure to keep records of your $$$$ spent on materials and tools,as well as how many hours it takes you to do this resto or whatever you are doing.Keep us posted with pics and info of progress in the bodywork section as you do it.Good luck!!!BTW,what is it and what color are you doing?

[Kevin68N71]

Sorry, this is why I am learning body and paint myself.

$5000 is an OUTRAGE just to spray paint on your car.

It's profitable for him to do it at $5000, but he WAS going to charge you $9000!!!!!

Screw people like that.

Kevin,by the way it sounds,strip the body to a bare shell,there is alot more than just"spraying".Bodywork,priming,blocking,edging/jambing,wet sanding,buffing,etc.If you think this an outrage,don't forget that price also reflects on ones quality of work.Even though you are going to be learning and are new at this,be sure to keep records of your $$$$ spent on materials and tools,as well as how many hours it takes you to do this resto or whatever you are doing.Keep us posted with pics and info of progress in the bodywork section as you do it.Good luck!!!BTW,what is it and what color are you doing?

I agree, but I have these points:

1) It sounded like the original poster said that he was going to strip the whole car down to a shell, and he didn't mention any bodywork.  Maybe there is some that was not mentioned.  To me, it sounded like the owner was doing all the prep work.  Now if there is a bunch of body work involved, my argument is out the window.  But I have heard 10k, 15K 20K for paint jobs without alot of body work.

2) The guy is not going to do this job at a loss.  That means he is making a decent profit at $5,000.  But the other day he was going to charge the fellow $9,000.  Now, I can understand knocking off $1000 for a job, but $4000?  See, this is why body shops have such a bad name, not to mention mechanics.

3) Again, I am not a paint guy, but let's think.  How long does it take to spray primer, then a couple of coats of paint.  Let's say 1.5 hours each coat and be generous, just to paint.  That's 4x1.5 hours, or 6 hours.  Say they sand in between the color coats for 2 hours.  That's another 6 hours.  Then final polishing for a couple of hours.

We are up to 14 hours.  Say 8 hours to prep the car for paint.  22 hours of labor.  Say $2000 for paint and supplies.  That leaves $3000 for labor.  That would be $136 an hour for paint labor. (I do realize that some things like management and overhead have to be factored in)  Or, in the $9000 version, that would be $318 an hour.  You can almost double my hours on these "deals" and it's still outrageous.

I have 11 cars and most need some sort of paintwork.  That would be over $100k worth of paint.  No thanks, even if I screw up I can beat that quite well.

I am going to start out quite small.  My 88 Mustang GT has a spoiler that is showing through to the primer.  I am going to unbolt that and do just the spoiler.  The top of the car has thin spots on it two.  I will try that next, and a few other small spots.  I will keep folks posted if they want to see my likely lousy first couple of tries!  I also have some old Corvair sheet metal to play around with.

As I said before, I have seen some tremendous paint work come out of a guy's garage with a medium quality compressor and paint gun.  They may not be some tremendously deep pearl or flame job, but most people don't even want that!

[Rolling_Thunder]

well i know the price is a bit steep but i also know the EPA and laws - $5000 is fair around here - he'll make some profit and i'll save some $$$ in the process...   I am stripping the car to a shell, doing the welding, and all that fun stuff....      This price is to strip the car to metal, do all the bodywork, and apply paint...     including some special little things i want to have done...


I used to do bodywork and paint - just dont have the patience for it anymore...    painting is the easy part...   its blocking and prepping that sucks...     doesnt make sense for me to burn hundreds of hours doing it...   plus in the i was DECENT - not excellent...     I have sent this guy alot of work and am comfortable having him do it...    if he bucks and bitches at the price i'll do it myself...   but it is worth it for me to pay someone else to do it...  

anyway - here's some pics

[69 OUR/TEA]

IMO Rolling_Thunder ,if that includes materials,that is not just fair ,it is a steal !!! Factor in materials that could possibly be $1,500.00-$2,000.00 , leaves 3K for labor.All that ,even if small,bodywork,priming,blocking,painting,sanding/buffing...and depending on quality level you are getting, 200 hours can go by in a blink.Even if ALL your bodywork was done and it just needed to be painted, trunk,under trunk lid ,under hood,doors,jambs,engine bay,and the outside,sanded and buffed.Still NOT an outrage!!!
  You obviously know how labor intensive it can and will be,that is why you are choosing to have someone else do it,those who do not or never have done it and are venturing into doing it themselves,thats great to,have fun.

[Back N Black]

Sorry, this is why I am learning body and paint myself.

$5000 is an OUTRAGE just to spray paint on your car.

It's profitable for him to do it at $5000, but he WAS going to charge you $9000!!!!!

Screw people like that.

              Kevin,by the way it sounds,strip the body to a bare shell,there is alot more than just"spraying".Bodywork,priming,blocking,edging/jambing,wet sanding,buffing,etc.If you think this an outrage,don't forget that price also reflects on ones quality of work.Even though you are going to be learning and are new at this,be sure to keep records of your $$$$ spent on materials and tools,as well as how many hours it takes you to do this resto or whatever you are doing.Keep us posted with pics and info of progress in the bodywork section as you do it.Good luck!!!BTW,what is it and what color are you doing?

I agree, but I have these points:

1) It sounded like the original poster said that he was going to strip the whole car down to a shell, and he didn't mention any bodywork.  Maybe there is some that was not mentioned.  To me, it sounded like the owner was doing all the prep work.  Now if there is a bunch of body work involved, my argument is out the window.  But I have heard 10k, 15K 20K for paint jobs without alot of body work.

2) The guy is not going to do this job at a loss.  That means he is making a decent profit at $5,000.  But the other day he was going to charge the fellow $9,000.  Now, I can understand knocking off $1000 for a job, but $4000?  See, this is why body shops have such a bad name, not to mention mechanics.

3) Again, I am not a paint guy, but let's think.  How long does it take to spray primer, then a couple of coats of paint.  Let's say 1.5 hours each coat and be generous, just to paint.  That's 4x1.5 hours, or 6 hours.  Say they sand in between the color coats for 2 hours.  That's another 6 hours.  Then final polishing for a couple of hours.

We are up to 14 hours.  Say 8 hours to prep the car for paint.  22 hours of labor.  Say $2000 for paint and supplies.  That leaves $3000 for labor.  That would be $136 an hour for paint labor. (I do realize that some things like management and overhead have to be factored in)  Or, in the $9000 version, that would be $318 an hour.  You can almost double my hours on these "deals" and it's still outrageous.

I have 11 cars and most need some sort of paintwork.  That would be over $100k worth of paint.  No thanks, even if I screw up I can beat that quite well.

I am going to start out quite small.  My 88 Mustang GT has a spoiler that is showing through to the primer.  I am going to unbolt that and do just the spoiler.  The top of the car has thin spots on it two.  I will try that next, and a few other small spots.  I will keep folks posted if they want to see my likely lousy first couple of tries!  I also have some old Corvair sheet metal to play around with.

As I said before, I have seen some tremendous paint work come out of a guy's garage with a medium quality compressor and paint gun.  They may not be some tremendously deep pearl or flame job, but most people don't even want that!

So, you think you can prime a car and have it painted in 14 hrs? Let me know when you start taking on clients, you can have my car.

[Troy]

Sorry, this is why I am learning body and paint myself.

$5000 is an OUTRAGE just to spray paint on your car.

It's profitable for him to do it at $5000, but he WAS going to charge you $9000!!!!!

Screw people like that.

Kevin,by the way it sounds,strip the body to a bare shell,there is alot more than just"spraying".Bodywork,priming,blocking,edging/jambing,wet sanding,buffing,etc.If you think this an outrage,don't forget that price also reflects on ones quality of work.Even though you are going to be learning and are new at this,be sure to keep records of your $$$$ spent on materials and tools,as well as how many hours it takes you to do this resto or whatever you are doing.Keep us posted with pics and info of progress in the bodywork section as you do it.Good luck!!!BTW,what is it and what color are you doing?

I agree, but I have these points:

1) It sounded like the original poster said that he was going to strip the whole car down to a shell, and he didn't mention any bodywork.  Maybe there is some that was not mentioned.  To me, it sounded like the owner was doing all the prep work.  Now if there is a bunch of body work involved, my argument is out the window.  But I have heard 10k, 15K 20K for paint jobs without alot of body work.

2) The guy is not going to do this job at a loss.  That means he is making a decent profit at $5,000.  But the other day he was going to charge the fellow $9,000.  Now, I can understand knocking off $1000 for a job, but $4000?  See, this is why body shops have such a bad name, not to mention mechanics.

3) Again, I am not a paint guy, but let's think.  How long does it take to spray primer, then a couple of coats of paint.  Let's say 1.5 hours each coat and be generous, just to paint.  That's 4x1.5 hours, or 6 hours.  Say they sand in between the color coats for 2 hours.  That's another 6 hours.  Then final polishing for a couple of hours.

We are up to 14 hours.  Say 8 hours to prep the car for paint.  22 hours of labor.  Say $2000 for paint and supplies.  That leaves $3000 for labor.  That would be $136 an hour for paint labor. (I do realize that some things like management and overhead have to be factored in)  Or, in the $9000 version, that would be $318 an hour.  You can almost double my hours on these "deals" and it's still outrageous.

I have 11 cars and most need some sort of paintwork.  That would be over $100k worth of paint.  No thanks, even if I screw up I can beat that quite well.

I am going to start out quite small.  My 88 Mustang GT has a spoiler that is showing through to the primer.  I am going to unbolt that and do just the spoiler.  The top of the car has thin spots on it two.  I will try that next, and a few other small spots.  I will keep folks posted if they want to see my likely lousy first couple of tries!  I also have some old Corvair sheet metal to play around with.

As I said before, I have seen some tremendous paint work come out of a guy's garage with a medium quality compressor and paint gun.  They may not be some tremendously deep pearl or flame job, but most people don't even want that!

I really can't wait until you've done this.

Ok, I thought the same thing, so, last year I painted the hood (yes, just the hood) on my Barracuda. Stripped it by hand, knocked out some minor dings, and epoxy primed the whole thing in about 5 hours so I thought I was moving along pretty good.  Cost: air compressor = $1,100, 1 gallon epoxy primer = $95, thinner = $20, sanding blocks = $25, respirator = $40 (all of which I can use again), sand paper = $30. Took it to the paint shop where I had access to anything to make my life easier - including a down draft paint booth, tools, spray guns, and even a helper. Started the filler prime and block sanding process. Approximately 17 hours later... finished up the final coat of clear. In the mean time, the hood (just the top side) got a bit more glazing putty on the dings we missed earlier, went through three prime/block cycles, and had three coats of paint and two coats of clear applied. Total time in the paint booth was a bit over 2.5 hours. Cost: booth time = $125, filler primer = $115, glazing putty and hardener = $25, masking paper and tape = $20, guide coat = $15, sand paper = $40, base = $200, clear = $100, black spray paint for bezels = $7, and overtime pay for my helper = $50. Those are only the big things that I can remember without looking at the receipts. Adding it all up (and not counting my tool cost), I had nearly $850 and 22 hours of my own time along with 11 hours of a paint shop employee's time JUST to paint a hood! Granted, I learned a LOT and I'm sure I can move quicker in the future now that I have a feel for the process. It's still a time consuming job. I got a great deal on labor costs or the total would have doubled - I only paid $10 per hour for overtime for my helper but he was paid by the shop for the first six hours. I have over 300 hours in one of my Chargers and I haven't finished the metal work or even stripping the entire body. I wish I could weld like Rolling_Thunder - I'd have saved myself $1,500. It's very easy to have 1,100 hours in a paint and body work depending on what you start with. We have several professional paint and body guys here on the board that have helped out a lot of people. The nice thing is that they are realistic about the effort involved.

Good luck!

Troy

[Kevin68N71]

Quote:

"So, you think you can prime a car and have it painted in 14 hrs? Let me know when you start taking on clients, you can have my car."


Well, instead of being a smartass, tell me where I am wrong.  The gentleman having his work done is obviously not just getting it sprayed, so the argument on that particular car is out the window. (Rolling Thunder's car)

There are tons of places around here doing cars for less than $3000.  Just how do they manage that? And these are not Earl Shieb or Maaco either.  My contention is that there is quality work between the extremes. But, even with a more reasonably priced shop, I still want to work it myself and enjoy the rewards and savings. 

As I said, my "guestimates" and that is what they are, was assuming all bodywork, sanding, etc was done and the car was ready to be sprayed and painted.  I didn't say 14 hours, I said 22 hours, plus some hours I would assume for setup and management.  So I will be generous and say 25-30 hours.

If you think it takes more than that amount of time to SPRAY YOU CAR, mind you, my scenario was NO bodywork, so it would be masking, priming, in between paint coat sanding and buffing out is more than 30 hours of work--for a basic paint job-- I have a bridge to sell you.  Please outline where I am wrong in my estimates in the above scenario. As I have stated, I have been around cars and doing just about everything except paint for 30 years, and I have seen "4 hour water pump replacement" jobs that would take me less than an hour. You've been BSd by the same paint and body shops I am talking about.  $10,000-$15,000 for a paint job, what a joke.  It better look like glass and last forever for that coin, somehow I doubt it.  And of course, the red flag for me is ANY work, ANYWHERE on ANYTHING, where a guy suddenly takes 1/2 off his price.

[Kevin68N71]

Sorry, this is why I am learning body and paint myself.

$5000 is an OUTRAGE just to spray paint on your car.

It's profitable for him to do it at $5000, but he WAS going to charge you $9000!!!!!

Screw people like that.

Kevin,by the way it sounds,strip the body to a bare shell,there is alot more than just"spraying".Bodywork,priming,blocking,edging/jambing,wet sanding,buffing,etc.If you think this an outrage,don't forget that price also reflects on ones quality of work.Even though you are going to be learning and are new at this,be sure to keep records of your $$$$ spent on materials and tools,as well as how many hours it takes you to do this resto or whatever you are doing.Keep us posted with pics and info of progress in the bodywork section as you do it.Good luck!!!BTW,what is it and what color are you doing?

I agree, but I have these points:

1) It sounded like the original poster said that he was going to strip the whole car down to a shell, and he didn't mention any bodywork.  Maybe there is some that was not mentioned.  To me, it sounded like the owner was doing all the prep work.  Now if there is a bunch of body work involved, my argument is out the window.  But I have heard 10k, 15K 20K for paint jobs without alot of body work.

2) The guy is not going to do this job at a loss.  That means he is making a decent profit at $5,000.  But the other day he was going to charge the fellow $9,000.  Now, I can understand knocking off $1000 for a job, but $4000?  See, this is why body shops have such a bad name, not to mention mechanics.

3) Again, I am not a paint guy, but let's think.  How long does it take to spray primer, then a couple of coats of paint.  Let's say 1.5 hours each coat and be generous, just to paint.  That's 4x1.5 hours, or 6 hours.  Say they sand in between the color coats for 2 hours.  That's another 6 hours.  Then final polishing for a couple of hours.

We are up to 14 hours.  Say 8 hours to prep the car for paint.  22 hours of labor.  Say $2000 for paint and supplies.  That leaves $3000 for labor.  That would be $136 an hour for paint labor. (I do realize that some things like management and overhead have to be factored in)  Or, in the $9000 version, that would be $318 an hour.  You can almost double my hours on these "deals" and it's still outrageous.

I have 11 cars and most need some sort of paintwork.  That would be over $100k worth of paint.  No thanks, even if I screw up I can beat that quite well.

I am going to start out quite small.  My 88 Mustang GT has a spoiler that is showing through to the primer.  I am going to unbolt that and do just the spoiler.  The top of the car has thin spots on it two.  I will try that next, and a few other small spots.  I will keep folks posted if they want to see my likely lousy first couple of tries!  I also have some old Corvair sheet metal to play around with.

As I said before, I have seen some tremendous paint work come out of a guy's garage with a medium quality compressor and paint gun.  They may not be some tremendously deep pearl or flame job, but most people don't even want that!

I really can't wait until you've done this.

Ok, I thought the same thing, so, last year I painted the hood (yes, just the hood) on my Barracuda. Stripped it by hand, knocked out some minor dings, and epoxy primed the whole thing in about 5 hours so I thought I was moving along pretty good.  Cost: air compressor = $1,100, 1 gallon epoxy primer = $95, thinner = $20, sanding blocks = $25, respirator = $40 (all of which I can use again), sand paper = $30. Took it to the paint shop where I had access to anything to make my life easier - including a down draft paint booth, tools, spray guns, and even a helper. Started the filler prime and block sanding process. Approximately 17 hours later... finished up the final coat of clear. In the mean time, the hood (just the top side) got a bit more glazing putty on the dings we missed earlier, went through three prime/block cycles, and had three coats of paint and two coats of clear applied. Total time in the paint booth was a bit over 2.5 hours. Cost: booth time = $125, filler primer = $115, glazing putty and hardener = $25, masking paper and tape = $20, guide coat = $15, sand paper = $40, base = $200, clear = $100, black spray paint for bezels = $7, and overtime pay for my helper = $50. Those are only the big things that I can remember without looking at the receipts. Adding it all up (and not counting my tool cost), I had nearly $850 and 22 hours of my own time along with 11 hours of a paint shop employee's time JUST to paint a hood! Granted, I learned a LOT and I'm sure I can move quicker in the future now that I have a feel for the process. It's still a time consuming job. I got a great deal on labor costs or the total would have doubled - I only paid $10 per hour for overtime for my helper but he was paid by the shop for the first six hours. I have over 300 hours in one of my Chargers and I haven't finished the metal work or even stripping the entire body. I wish I could weld like Rolling_Thunder - I'd have saved myself $1,500. It's very easy to have 1,100 hours in a paint and body work depending on what you start with. We have several professional paint and body guys here on the board that have helped out a lot of people. The nice thing is that they are realistic about the effort involved.

Good luck!

Troy

Troy, no offense, but you are totally comparing apples to oranges.

Why would you factor in a  compressor, respirator and all those new tools into a costing exercise? I was not comparing what it would cost to START UP a paint effort for the first time, and consider the time it takes to ramp up to being decent at it.  Bezel spray paint?  YOUR booth rental?  Again, what are you comparing, a person's first time "I don't know what I am doing" timelines to a professional?  You're comparing a beginner starting up and buying his tools with the time it takes a professional to do it.  Moot point.  I was simply trying to understand how much is reasonable for just a spray.  Again, tell me where my specific estimates are off.

Tell me this.  I have two neighbors across the street.  One paid a little over $3000 for his Honda to be painted, another guy had his truck done for $5,000.  They both look good, and its been a few years for both of them.  These are not fancy paint jobs, but single color basic jobs.  Admittedly, both cars has 0 rust out here in California.

How'd they get this work done?  Did they imagine it?  The cars still look decent to me and the truck sits outside.  How is this possible?

You can tell me its shoddy work, but there is no flaking, or fading that I can see. 

So laugh if you want to, but, there are people charging more reasonable rates out there.  I still will want to learn it, and if its too big a hassle, no problem.  I'll go where my neighbors went to get it sprayed, and do the bodywork myself.  Fortunately I don't have any rust or major bodywork issues on most of the fleet, so I am lucky.

[Troy]

Don't know if you're responding to me or Back N Black but I listed my experience. The paint alone for my Charger (epoxy, filler, base, clear, reducer) will cost right around $2,000 before it even gets mixed or goes into a gun. Now, that's enough to cover the entire car inside and out (bare shell). So, to be clear, when I'm talking about painting one of my cars I'm referring to a rotisserie job where the entire car is in bare metal. If you want to paint the outside surfaces only then the price drops significantly. Is that what you mean when you say "doing cars for less than $3000"? What kind of paint are they using? The keys to any business are setting expectations. If you want a concourse show car then you are not going to be happy with what you'll get for $3,000 but if you want a driver then a $15-20k mirror finish job is pointless. Depending on the area of the country, labor rates are in the $40-60 range so your 25-30 hours comes out to $1,500-1,800 in labor alone. Add in EPA fees and shop overhead and there's little room left for materials on a $3,000 job. I have a shop that will work for $20 per hour but they take their time so it doesn't end up being any cheaper than a $40 shop that works twice as fast (assuming similar quality of the finished product). I think Pocket Thunder got his 68 painted (outside only) for right around $4,000 at Maaco and it looks like they did nice work.

As I mentioned, spraying the car is the easiest and fastest part but anyone who spays a car with no prep is asking for trouble. At the very least, it will need scuffed and you mentioned the buffing. Something else to note is that many shops won't spray a car that they haven't done the body work on (at least they won't warrantee it) because most paint defects are actually caused by what's underneath.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,34354.msg375798.html#msg375798

Troy

[Troy]

Uh, I didn't add the equipment into my totals. I mentioned them because had I not had to buy a bunch of equipment I'd have more money to pay a shop. You said you were going to do it on your own and anyone interested in doing body work on their own will have to buy a lot of tools to do it correctly. I forgot to mention the hammers, dollies, and files that I had to purchase. I don't own a paint shop (and no one gives me free reign) so I had to list the amount that I paid to rent their equipment. Any "normal" guy doing their own work will have to consider those costs as well. For the record, I could have paid the shop to paint my hood. Their estimate was $600. They'd have had to finish the job in 7 hours to make it worthwhile (after material costs) and, as I said, one of their employees was working with me (mostly block sanding). They'd have only blocked it twice. I'm not saying you can't get a car painted for $5,000 but make sure you're comparing similar jobs. No one out there is charging $20k for a basic mask and respray.

Believe me, when it's your car you'll be able to tell the difference between a so-so job and a good one. Every time you wash it you'll find a run or bubble that you hadn't seen before. I pick apart my own cars and people look at me like I'm nuts because they don't see any flaws. I'm a perfectionist - maybe you aren't. No one in my family even knows what "fish eye" or "orange peel" looks like and they're so used to looking at new cars that they have no idea what a "good" paint job is.  I drive my new(er) cars every day to work in the snow, salt, rain, and dirt and, basically, they just need to be one color. My old cars though are my pride and joy and they deserve better. I'll do as much as I can on my own but I realize that it is a HUGE undertaking to do it correctly. The main reason I don't just pay a shop is because I can spread out the costs over time on my own (and the shops I trust have 2-3 year waiting lists).

Troy

[Kevin68N71]

Troy, what you said is fair.

And I understand that you can work to do an impeccable job.  My brother in law is like you.  He can see imperfections that I can't.  I am not one of those folks.  To me, if it looks decent, like it came from the factory, and lasts without fading I am on board.

I know guys with BIKE FRAMES that have 200 hours of work on their frame.  To me, that's just obnoxious. I don't know how many times you can sand, resand, prime, paint, sand, buff a frame.  But they do it.  If that is what you like, and that is your hobby, more power to you!

We're all different.  I will take a $5,000 paint job that looks reasonable, has a great shine, lasts, over a $10,000-$20,000 perfectionist's job.  I love cars, but paint is paint, and I just don't get anal over it.