I know what killed the 440, God I would have nerver thought they F--k this up!

[cudaken]

 Boy I posted about that on the old site. But I was told that, that is the way it sould be with the Chrome Plasma Molly Rings. If it was a stocker or a milder 440 I would have knowen better.

Just 6T9_CHGR.... , well your block looks worst than mine, so that makes me feel better.

                                          Ken

[Charger72SE]

while this thread was on the topic on honing, I thought I would post this picture of my 440 which was just done on Friday.

Does it look good?

good luck, cudaken

[cudaken]

 Paul, PIC is a little blurred. I use a tripod when I took my PIC and blew up and cropped the PIC for better detail.

Got looking at the rod bearings last night, there junk as well.

Only thing left in the 440 is the crank, cam and oil pump. Hope the mains are good but more than likely junk as well.

                                 Ken

[max]

i probablly don't need to say this, but i would have "everything" miced including the crank mains and rod journals.

more then likey i would just figure on what i had as a rebuildable core, i imagine once you get to checking things you will find alot more clearances that are unacceptable.


charger72se, it's hard to see in your photo but from what i can make out the crosshatch is there. it's alittle on the light side from what i'm used to seeing, but it really depends on the type of rings you plan on installing on the pistons.

btw. did the machine shop ask you what type of rings you were going to use, or did they just take it on themselves to hone it the way they wanted?

everything i have ever built has been for the street and i use cast type rings so i'm used to seeing more of a pattern. i loose some hp by going with the cast rings, but on the street i wouldn't notice the difference. i prefer to have reliablity with out the risks of loosing compression or oil so that is the reason i stay simple.

alright the flames are on so let me have it for using the old cast rings.

i'm sure others have better insight on this and will give you alot more info then what i have.

[Charger72SE]

thanks for the comments guys - I cropped & sharpened the picture for a better view

Max, I'm using SpeedPro 2355F 30 over forged pistons and SpeedPro Moly piston rings.  My shop guy suggested Moly rings from the get go

[cudaken]

 Well the crank is out and was bit of a pain. Seems number 5 main stud use a 12 point bolt. Number 5 bearing is shot but the crank still looks good. On main 1 and 5 I can see a line but not feel it.

                   Few PIC and more to follow.

[cudaken]

 Have to show you folks the timing chain, boy that is speical.

PIC of the main caps. 1 is in front and 5 is in the back.

Next is main's in the block,1, 2 and 3. They look nasty in the PIC but in person not bad.

Then mains of 4 and 5, I know 5 is wiped out, rest I think may be OK.

[cudaken]

 Next are PIC of the rod throws. They look pretty good, I was happy (Hum Happy and this posting does not sound right) with throw number 2 conceding what number 4 rod bearing look like!

[charger_72_318]

Painting the timing chain was more than stupid  
I hope you reassembly that engine soon, and dont' have anymore problems. 

[Silver R/T]

so nobody's paying for damage/incorrect assemlby?

[cudaken]

 Silver R/T, like I have posted many times before pretty much told eat sh-t and die. Will see what Dumb & Dumber machine shop has to say after I have some speck's in hand. At this point that is all I can think D&D stands for.

  Charger_72_318, in a dumb a-s way of thinking I sort of but not really under stand it. Have a chorme MP timing chain cover and black 9 quart pan. Seem's they where more worried about me bitching about paint on the chome and pan than the chain, crank and main caps?

If it was me, and will be the next time I would  called and said "Ken, cannot paint the block, we dont have a old  timing chain cover or oil pan"! I would said that is fine and I will do it my self. I do have a pair of valve cover's (painted the rockers and push rods but that is old new's) timing chain covers and oil pan just for painting the blocks.

Here is the hote, passed on a fresh 440 for $700.00 for the same thing I saw on my $7,000.00 440. Well that and the fact Zeb could not remember he installed new pistions.

                                        Cuda Ken, broke again

[charger_72_318]

so are u really gonna get a new one and trow the other one away?     man, u make it sound as easy as changing the oil  

[HeavyFuel]

Wow! Sorry to hear that CudaKen. I'm now thinking about my 440 engine presently at the machine shop for a total rebuilt. The machine shop where my engine is at does mostly high performance aircraft engines, so I'm hoping that their quality control is very strict. I'm spending a bit more by going with this shop for this exact reason, but I heard that it has a good reputation. But as mentioned before any shop can make mistakes. Ken I hope they do the right thing for you - Good luck.

Yeah, no crap.  I've got my 440 back all nice and pretty, just waiting in my garage in big plastic bag with moisture desiccant packets, just waiting for the body to get done.  I'll be worrying about the thing now for the next year.

But one thing encouraging about my engine shop.  They have a pretty good rep, been around for a long time, and they said to please bring the car back down to them when it is ready for the first fire up.  They would make sure that it gets off to a good start by double checking all of my work, and make sure the engine pops right off on the first or second try, and then give it a cam break in.  Sounds like they care.

[Silver R/T]

post some pics heavyfuel

[JimShine]

. At this point that is all I can think D&D stands for.

 

Dill and Doe's

[max]

Ken, to be perfectly honest. when you originally posted about the noise the engine was making i NEVER dreamed the kind of stuff that you have found and showed photos of.

this is just unexceptable by any shop and to think they do this for a living.

keep the photos and i would explain to the shop (in a nice way) that i was very unhappy with the service and work that they performed and i would ask them for compinstation (in $$$ not service) for the lousy work that you recieved. have the paper work on hand (but make copies) to prove they did the work.

if you still don't get any satisfaction, then i would let them know there will be a public service statement that will be made outside the front door of there business to notify other customers (with photos) the kind of crap you were giving.

if you have an old car that you don't mind the possiblity of future damage i would park it across from their so called business door with shoe polish writing on the inside of the windows stating the way you were treated and i would have the photos that you have shown us printed up and pasted on a piece of cardboard, again on the inside of the window showing the so called detailed work that they performed.

make sure the area you park in has a parking meter where you can put change in it every couple of hours, that way it can not be towed and it is perfectly legal.

this happened to an investment company in my area a few months back, the person that got screwed used an old mail van with a very very large banner stating how he was treated with an internet link were people could go and read the full details. he parked it in front of their business with a parking meter in front of it and he keept the meter running so it couldn't be towed.

from my understanding there was a very quick compromise in this situation.

[cudaken]

Ken, to be perfectly honest. when you originally posted about the noise the engine was making i NEVER dreamed the kind of stuff that you have found and showed photos of.

Max, never did I. I was 80% it was going to be something that was easy to fix. As far as parking in front of there shop, that won't work. There shop is pretty much in the country at there house. There is no parking on the road they live on.

HeavyFuel, sounds like you may have found a good shop. I hope you have it in writing, had a hand shake on my warranty.

                                         Cuda Ken

[firefighter3931]

Ken, the crank looks good....a simple polish job should clean it up from what i'm seeing in the pics. Lets hope the bores can be finish honed a few thou and this badboy can go back together.  

Ron

[Ghoste]

Lets hope the bores can be finish honed a few thou and this badboy can go back together.  Ron

I'm with you Ron.  The hard part is to now rise above the setback.  What's done is done and all that Pollyanna crap.  Don't let it beat you Ken.

[cudaken]

 It has broke me and the wallet. Looking at a 50,000 400 for $500.00.

Did not feel well today but the 440 will be another shop Tuesday.

                                 Ken

[charger_72_318]

Chin up..
At least u will be fun building up that engine again, please don't hit me

Around a year ago, we took a 83 beetle to the mechanic's shop, and he told me they were able to do a general overhaulin to the engine, so i bought a racing camshaft, bigger valve's, double springs, etc. but then they asked me for a new pump oil to fit the camshaft, i had my doubts but we bought it, then i had to wait an extra week to have my car back, when they gave it to me, i was excited to drive it and note the difference, but at the same time, looking out to not over rev it and brake a piston ring or something, but for my surprise it works as fast as my old bicycle, i took it for a drive at the freeway, and under a bridge it lost power, more and more, until it didn't move faster than 15 mph, so me and my brother had a good time and took us 2 hours to get back home, when i ask the mechanic what the hell he did, he said, that he didn't installed the bigger valve's cause in the machining shop he goes, they didn't know how to do it, then about the loose of power, he said, the new camshaft was pushing too much the valves against the valve cover's, and finally it took an extra week (making in total almost a month) to fix it, when my car was ready according to him, he charged me an extra 100 bucks 'cause he fixed it, he changed the camshaft for a stock one, and the double valve springs dissapeared, along wit the packages and specifications of the new parts, all that without asking me before, my dad was more than angry so we demanded him to return the parts he didn't used , and we didn't paid for the 100 extra bucks he wanted, we only paid for the rebuilding and the new stock camshaft, damn i made them bad reputation with all the people around in my neighborhood. After that, disappointed, i sold the parts  
I hope that makes u feel better, or angry against your machining shop, but at least not sad.. LOL

Good luck cudaken

charger_72_318

[Ghoste]

Well, let us know what the other shop tells you and we'll be with you as much as we can one step at a time.  I wish I lived closer to at least be able to provide a willing hand to get greasy.  This moral support doesn't do you much good.

[andy74]

ken, i wish i was closer so we could drink some beers and bitch about machine shops together! i dropped off my complet 360 last week,because the guy i use said he had some one who wants to buy it-i dont own a small block car,so it sounded good.well,i just came back,and they let the guy take it with out paying for it! the owner says he knows the guy,and he will pay me this weekend,so mean while i owe my shop for a bill,and about 10 guys i bought parts from-im   going to need a couple beers,just have to wait until pay day now.


                              not as bad as yours but still pissed off,Andy

[charger_72_318]

That Andy, is something that a couple of beers and a lot of money can solve...
CHEERS  
For the machining shops ( )

[cudaken]

 Block, crank and pistons have been dropped off at J&J Machine shop. Hee, Hee, Hee, Jack Plamer is a chevy guy at heart. 440 block was in the back of the 91 Daytona, rolled out a small cart and got one of the guys from the shop to help pick it up from the well of the hatch

Pointed out bare block was 250 pound bare. Jack thougt about it for a few seconds then got out the fork lift to pick her up out of the Daytona. All most slide off the fork of the forklift as well. At this point it would have been fine with me. Some owes me a 440 Block

Other guy all most busted a gut when he yanked the crank out.

Local guy from SLAM just E-mailed me as well. Said Jack is a Chevy guy but does good work. So lets hope for the best!

Just thinking out loud and drunk I will add. If I where to list D&D phone number, anyone want to blow them some sh--t? Must have caller ID and won't answer my calls.

Cuda Ken