Hi, intro/ alternator issues =D

[Tj_saxon]

Hello everyone. My name is T.J. Saxon. I recently got a 73 auto 318 charger. It is a decently clean car but deff. needs a lot of tlc. I have already replaced the water pump, fuel pump, put a fuel filter on, starter, dizzy, and battery. The wiring in this car has been ABUSED to say the least bit. I keep finding random cut wires just hanging...
This is under the dash AND in the engine bay. ANY WHO that was my intro on to the good stuff. The alternator used to randomly charge super high (so high that the needle would disappear to the right side) and then something crazy happened (to be honest not sure what or why)  and this puff of smoke came through the vents. The headlights didn't work any more and little did I know neither did anything else on the inside. I could smell it was electrical so pulled over. The wire that say fusible link on it or w/e it says I cant really remember had completely just burnt through itself. So I had to cut out a section and I put a 20 amp fuse in the line. Went to start the car and then something on the right side on the firewall started smoking. Not sure what it was. Turned the car off searched and couldn't find anything. Turned it back on and no smoke...But now my alternator gauge is reading below the discharge line. The next day the car wouldn't start. Went to the parts store and got a alternator and battery. Replaced them, went driving and it's still reading that its discharging. If I turn my brights on it gets even closer to the d. Like reallly close. Any ideas on what it could be. I will post tomorrow whether or not the car even starts again in the morning or not.

[FLG]

Hi,

Yep plenty of ideas.

Dont drive the car, dont start the car, disconnect the battery.

Now proceed to inspect all the wiring from the car and go over it with a fine tooth comb.

Clean and inspect all the firewall connections (probably going to find something burnt)

Also at this point id bypass the amp meter entirely (disconnect leads going to it, connect them together and make sure there well isolated as those are both positive)

Also replace the alternator.

Sorry but this is what youll need to do, there is no such thing as something electrical smoking and then still working. Once it goes up its gone. And unless you want a scrap pile of burnt charger, id make sure EVERYTHING is perfect.

[Tj_saxon]

Luckily I have the next two days off. I suppose I will be spending the going through and through the wiring. Thank you very much =]


Also I have already replaced my alternator and battery. Where is the alternator grounded? Could it have possibly been the ground wire burning ( I assume ground wire since smoke was so close to firewall) or would it even do anything without a ground wire?

[Tj_saxon]

One more thing. I hate to make so many responses, I apologize in advance. I was looking at the alternator and the thick wire that connects to the big post on the alternator is pretty frayed. Could this be my issue??? I wish the wiring on this car wasn't so butchered but when I saw it I couldn't turn it down...it brought out the 14 y.o. muscle car kid in me lol.

New update: After playing with the wires I have repaired all loose wires I can find and put a new connector on the alt. Connection. The car is at the thick line between charge and discharge at idle but when I turn anything on like my lights it goes into discharge..is this normal? I have never had a car with an alt gauge. Also when I turn my brights on interior lights get pretty dim and it goes deep into discharge. Almost on the d.

[Cooter]

.

New update: After playing with the wires I have repaired all loose wires I can find and put a new connector on the alt. Connection. The car is at the thick line between charge and discharge at idle but when I turn anything on like my lights it goes into discharge..is this normal? I have never had a car with an alt gauge. Also when I turn my brights on interior lights get pretty dim and it goes deep into discharge. Almost on the d.

Was this at idle? Chrysler alt. discharge at idle ubtil you rev engine slightly. This is the main reason I upgrade to a GM one wire. Best way to check if charging is with Volt meter. Should be somewhere round 13.8-14.2 Volts with EVERYTHING on, and around 1500 RPM.

Make SURE you ahve no more "Smoke tests" going on though. You haven't seen heartache till you've watched one of these things burn to the ground.

[Tj_saxon]

Just got back from the parts store. I had lost my volt meter. About to test that. So far so good with no smoke. There were so many random wire ends every where it's impossible for me to tell which did what. So as of right now I have all the tips taped off. I will get back when I get the voltage.

[Tj_saxon]

Ok so the cheap multi meter I bought doesn't even work...so I have to get another tomorrow/today. I took it for a test drive for about an hour and still no smoke or anything but the alternator is still draining the battery. I am going to check over the little bit of wiring I know to check but is there any alternator wiring diagrams that are pretty simple and easy to read? I am thinking I may have to re wire the whole damn thing. ALSO in new good news now my blinkers stopped working. I checked the fuses to find the bottom right was blown. I replaced it and they still don't work. But my hazards do...any ideas on anything would be greatly appreciated. Thanks to every one that has tried to help and that may help =D.

ALSO! I just realized what that little box on the wall was. A regulator for the alternator. Thats where some of the smoke came from one of the times I started it. Could this have gone bad? How do I test to see if it did and what does it do?

[MrSnicks]

I think the "right side smoking" might have been your voltage regulator frying. Silver box on the firewall. It's about $15.00 bucks at a parts store. New alternator and new battery won't charge unless the voltage regulator is good.



Patrick

[W4ATL]

Yep...replace the voltage regulator. Make sure all the connections are wired right according to your service manual schematic for the engine bay. Label the wires you see "hanging" or if you remove them or if the wiring seems really wrong to you. Then wire it back like the service manual shows. I had to do this to my Charger since the ignition wiring was all screwed up.

[Tj_saxon]

Ok guys, I'll pick one up today. Do any of you know if anyone has used the painless wiring kit or any other aftermarket wiring kit. I wish I knew how to upload pictures to show you guys how bad this stuff was. There is seriously wires just hanging everywhere and sadly a lot of them are just read speaker wire someone has spliced in then ripped out??? And all kinds of plugs not plugged in just hanging around. I get a head ache just looking at it. It makes no sense to abuse cars like that.

[lisiecki1]

Ok guys, I'll pick one up today. Do any of you know if anyone has used the painless wiring kit or any other aftermarket wiring kit. I wish I knew how to upload pictures to show you guys how bad this stuff was. There is seriously wires just hanging everywhere and sadly a lot of them are just read speaker wire someone has spliced in then ripped out??? And all kinds of plugs not plugged in just hanging around. I get a head ache just looking at it. It makes no sense to abuse cars like that.

I rewired mine with a kit similar to a painless kit.  Went really easy.  Don't think I could've done it without having the original FSM though.  Subsequently, all of the wiring is out of the car at the moment because I'm restoring the entire car now.  If it wasn't for that I'd send you pics.

If you have money to spend you can get all new factory-correct wiring for the whole car from year one, but be prepared to pay for it until year four thousand.

[Tj_saxon]

How long did it take you to wire it?

[FLG]

Check out Bill Evans, he does great wiring and much better prices and speed then yearone

[Tj_saxon]

Check out Bill Evans, he does great wiring and much better prices and speed then yearone

Will do! Is he someone on the forums or is that a business? Thank you all so much for all the help btw.

[FLG]

http://www.evanswiring.com/

[johnatkens]

Your car has an isolated field alternator. 12 v is applied to one brush when the key is on, the other brush goes to the regulator which grounds it to start charging and takes away the ground to control voltage. Your original overcharging problem could be caused by a regulator failure, the wire from the alternator being grounded or the field grounded inside the alternator which would cause the alternator to go to max output and system voltage to go off the scale resulting in blown fuses and letting the smoke out of various components.

Step one should be to get the charging system working again, you should have battery (12v) on both terminals of the regulator connector when disconnected with the key on engine not running. Let me know the results for the next step. Also note the regulator must be grounded to work correctly.

Once the charging system is working then repairs to other systems caused by overvoltage can be tackled. I posted a link for wiring on a 73 Challenger, charging system is the same for all models in 73.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=73+dodge+wiring&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1024&bih=674&tbm=isch&tbnid=G1DW9ROD-vEl1M:&imgrefurl=http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php%3Ftopic%3D71666.0&docid=YQZOEZUVWRfiFM&imgurl=http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1973/73ChallengerA.JPG&w=1138&h=1591&ei=Xe3JUJ6LKcOqqQHF3IHADg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=121&vpy=102&dur=3478&hovh=266&hovw=190&tx=121&ty=144&sig=118438033345467810221&page=1&tbnh=165&tbnw=118&start=0&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:88

[lisiecki1]

How long did it take you to wire it?

Total, around 8 hours I believe.  It was a lot easier than I expected with everything being labeled and such.

[Tj_saxon]

Your car has an isolated field alternator. 12 v is applied to one brush when the key is on, the other brush goes to the regulator which grounds it to start charging and takes away the ground to control voltage. Your original overcharging problem could be caused by a regulator failure, the wire from the alternator being grounded or the field grounded inside the alternator which would cause the alternator to go to max output and system voltage to go off the scale resulting in blown fuses and letting the smoke out of various components.

Step one should be to get the charging system working again, you should have battery (12v) on both terminals of the regulator connector when disconnected with the key on engine not running. Let me know the results for the next step. Also note the regulator must be grounded to work correctly.

Once the charging system is working then repairs to other systems caused by overvoltage can be tackled. I posted a link for wiring on a 73 Challenger, charging system is the same for all models in 73.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=73+dodge+wiring&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&biw=1024&bih=674&tbm=isch&tbnid=G1DW9ROD-vEl1M:&imgrefurl=http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php%3Ftopic%3D71666.0&docid=YQZOEZUVWRfiFM&imgurl=http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1973/73ChallengerA.JPG&w=1138&h=1591&ei=Xe3JUJ6LKcOqqQHF3IHADg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=121&vpy=102&dur=3478&hovh=266&hovw=190&tx=121&ty=144&sig=118438033345467810221&page=1&tbnh=165&tbnw=118&start=0&ndsp=22&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:88

So what I need to do is buy another multimeter and put it on the battery with the key in the on position but the motor not running? I replaced the regulator and the headlights are still super discharging the battery....It's getting slightly annoying lol.

[Tj_saxon]

I was looking at this wiring.

http://imageshack.us/f/23/wiring31.jpg/

[johnatkens]

.[/quote]

So what I need to do is buy another multimeter and put it on the battery with the key in the on position but the motor not running? I replaced the regulator and the headlights are still super discharging the battery....It's getting slightly annoying lol.
[/quote]

A multimeter is preferred but a simple 12v test light will suffice for this check. Disconnect the two wire triangular shaped plug at the voltage regulator on the firewall, turn the key on and you should have 12v or reasonably bright test light at both terminals of the connector with the key on and engine not running. Connect the black wire from the voltmeter or clip from test light to a good ground (neg batt term is ideal) and see if you have voltage at both terminals for the regulator.
The diagram you just posted is not complete.

If you want to see frustrating spend all day working on a Harley like I just did, I would much rather be fixing your car 

[Tj_saxon]

.

So what I need to do is buy another multimeter and put it on the battery with the key in the on position but the motor not running? I replaced the regulator and the headlights are still super discharging the battery....It's getting slightly annoying lol.
[/quote]

A multimeter is preferred but a simple 12v test light will suffice for this check. Disconnect the two wire triangular shaped plug at the voltage regulator on the firewall, turn the key on and you should have 12v or reasonably bright test light at both terminals of the connector with the key on and engine not running. Connect the black wire from the voltmeter or clip from test light to a good ground (neg batt term is ideal) and see if you have voltage at both terminals for the regulator.
The diagram you just posted is not complete.

If you want to see frustrating spend all day working on a Harley like I just did, I would much rather be fixing your car 
[/quote]

Lol, come on and fix it please lol. Ok ill pick up a multimeter tonight after work again and do this test.

[Tj_saxon]

How long did it take you to wire it?

Total, around 8 hours I believe.  It was a lot easier than I expected with everything being labeled and such.

That's not bad at all.

[Tj_saxon]

Hate to triple post but where is the reguulator supposed to bolt up...the old one had one bolt holding it in place and I managed to get this one in with two bolts by putting it in upside down and crooked lol. I sanded the paint off the firewall were I mounted it to help ground it but would that be enough?

[johnatkens]

Should be a good enough ground for the regulator as thats what the factory did, if in doubt run a ground wire to the neg batt term. But first do the test I described and let me know the results. One step at a time will resolve your issues.

[Tj_saxon]

Should be a good enough ground for the regulator as thats what the factory did, if in doubt run a ground wire to the neg batt term. But first do the test I described and let me know the results. One step at a time will resolve your issues.

Ok, will do. Thank you every one for all the help =)