So I have started a project that may take a while, but I figured you guys would like to see it. I had this going on another board, but folks lost interest. I guess building cars isn't all that interesting to people over at snugglebearsprinkleperade.com
Whatever! Anyhow....
I am taking this:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gJHuOm_kSa8/UWR9HivtW-I/AAAAAAAAAHk/gwn2KWD5P6Q/s912/regulator.JPG)
Which is currently inside of this:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qNkEf_TBJPY/UWR9H4jGT5I/AAAAAAAAAHo/dzayKyShCkQ/s912/rims4.JPG)
and I am going to fuel inject it with both sequencing spark and fuel.
the plan is to build a Megasquirt MS3X ECU, and use LQ9 Truck coil packs for spark.
I am going to use the Edelbrock pro-flo XT manifold for the build. Injectors are out of a SVT6.2 Raptor motor
Reluctor wheel on crank, with junkyard ford sensor. I will convert my current distributor to be the CPS for now.
Plans down the road are to build a new housing/plug in house that accepts a jeep CPS so I dont have a huge distributor body for a CPS!
So far I have built a Jim-Stim for practice.
This little guy simulates my engine as if it was in the car. I will be able to bench test my ECU and do initial tuning with this little device.
Started with this:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lZrKH3hDUYY/UWd0Xqj_zwI/AAAAAAAAAJg/gMh4h4GA7iw/s816/stim.jpg)
And now have this fully tested and working fine:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-k04fF5f4VJU/UWR9AbhbW7I/AAAAAAAAAH8/BeyrP2MK_J0/s912/efi1.jpg)
Next up is the ECU, and the continuation of parts sourcing from junkyards and such!
Ok, I got the ECU parts, X card expansion, and MS3 kit in as well as tonights project:
The Fuse/relay board for the injectors, and fuel pump and such. This will be the under hood component where all my sensors and power wires will terminate. This in turn will go via DB-37 connector to the Megasquirt ECU that I will keep housed in the car.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-uBaYaiPKCYk/UWR69QGc7oI/AAAAAAAAACs/P1JGGaodSJY/s912/efi2.jpg)
And a picture of the ECU components:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-au0rok9BGck/UWR9FwvQm_I/AAAAAAAAAHQ/iwyWKPekdAM/s912/efi3.jpg)
ECU Finished up
The yellow wires are jumpers for the Idle Air Control valve stepper motor.
Something to take note about the Megasquirt system. You will notice the SD card slot. This is a logging card that can be removed and taken to a computer to view whatever log you have setup in the tuning. This was the ultimate feature that sold me on Megasquirt! Also the USB tuning function, and the "AutoTune" that is found in Tuner Studio.
I got the board tested, and hooked up to tuner studio. So far so good!!! if anyone is on the fence about this, the documentation is so good, that you should not hesitate. This system destroys the other offerings on the market at a much smaller cost!
I still need to install the "X" expansion that will give me 8 channels of spark control. It's a simple ad on board.
Here is a basic list of what is included on what I have built here as standard:
VE and ignition tables are now both 16 x 16
0.1% steps on VE table, 0.1 degree steps on ignition table
Socket for an onboard SD card - no laptop required for data logging (SD Card not included)
Built in USB port
GM stepper IAC control
Closed loop idle and mixture control
CANBus communications for interface with GPIO Board, IO Extender, or other devices
Staged injection
Native support for many different OEM trigger patterns
8 Sequential fuel injection outputs. Each can drive a high impedance injector, and unused injection outputs can be put to other purposes.
8 Logic level 5 volt ignition outputs. Works with many types of ignition modules and coils, including LSx coils and our IGN-1As. Requires external module or coils with internal ignitors.
6 Medium current outputs. Use for 2 stage progressive nitrous, boost control, tach output, 3 wire idle speed control, general purpose PWM or relay control, or many other potential applications.
3 Analog inputs. Use for an external MAP sensor, second O2 sensor, fuel pressure, accelerometer, or general data logging.
4 Switch inputs. Can be used to start data logging, arm a nitrous system, switch tables, launch control, VSS input (with external conditioner), and more.
1 Cam sensor input. Can be used with VR, Hall, or optical sensors.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eiECLz4NCFI/UWR9G9E0YaI/AAAAAAAAAHA/pO585XVr7WI/s912/efi7.jpg)
And a picture of the ECU operating off of the "STIM" to check function in Tuner Studio:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eMlXahdirfc/UWR67VqCcfI/AAAAAAAAAEM/7GKqyAu4r7U/s912/ef18.jpg)
Spent an hour or so in the junkyard today and scored my LQ9 Truck coils! These are the D-585 coils that people are using as hop ups on the LS2's I guess. I don't know why the truck coils are that much better, but they are an in demand item. Mine came off of a 2003 Yukon.
These are a simple low value trigger wire hookup that is wired to each coil from the MS3X ECU. They already have an ignitor in them. I plan to fabricate studs on my valve covers to hold the stock brackets and coils.
Total price for these, and a VR crank sensor off of a Ford tourus was $62. I cleaned up the bottm set of coils, and they look brand new. If you are looking for the specific truck coils, you will want to find the coils with the heat sink on the back, that is the distinguishing feature.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aDkG2THHd8Q/UWR7A0T0s2I/AAAAAAAAAEA/CpNQpBVBemg/s912/efi9.jpg)
Alright!!
Good progress today,
I recieved my fuel rails, and my Jeep 4.0 Cam sensor. More on that in a bit.
For now, here is a video that goes over exactly what the hell I am building here as far as electronics. This is an amazing package for the money, and the more I learn about it, the more excited I get.
[flash width=' 425' height=' 350' src='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4yudqswCg8']
And now the cam sensor. The way these systems work, is they need Crank trigger, and Cam trigger to function correctly in full sequential. Some guys just modify the stock distributor and use the existing VR sensor on board to give Cam signal to the ECU. The ECU is looking for a basic ON/OFF signal in order to know where the engine is in relation to Intake stroke vs Exhaust. Not wanting a gutted distributor poking out of my engine I started looking at other options. I think I have found a good solution. Here is a stock distributor next to a Jeep Cam sync shaft, and sensor. You will notice that the drive key-way on the bottom of both units is exactly the same! My plan is to make a bushing that simulates the stock distributor, and bushes down to hold the jeep sensor in place. This will literally be a drop in ready to go package with a simple lathe project to make it work.
The Jeep CPS was $40 and that includes the shaft and body. The gear that is on it will simply float on that shaft, and just retain the guts.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-SK_8uKPdGlk/UWR9AnpKbEI/AAAAAAAAAH4/UJRUyczks5k/s912/efi10.jpg)
This will keep me in my line of thought that should i need a sensor on the road, it's a common part, and easy to get at any auto parts store!
Received the Edelbrock Pro Flo XT Manifold today, and installed the fuel rails, and take off raptor 6.2 injectors.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-yEtcrOIhWyI/UWR9A8sIBmI/AAAAAAAAAH0/EaKWh8rRTww/s912/efi11.jpg)
Using Solidworks I also modeled the simple adapter bushing for the distributor hole in order to retain the Jeep CPS in place of the stock distributor. As soon as jobs clear the lathe, I will spin out a couple for test fit. This will make the Jeep CPS a drop in CPS for a 440 big block.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FlDP_k_zEFQ/UWR9AZJbS_I/AAAAAAAAAIE/2qL8hDpQuQc/s912/440cps.jpg)
Total $ into the project so far is $1592... I still need to finish my fuel system, and purchase or source a throttle body, and a few sensors. I can still sell my new carb, and intake off the car to get some cash back. Total for the project should be well under $2000 for a full fuel spark sequential setup that is fully tunable per cylinder. It will be a much much nicer setup then what is offered by FAST, MSD or the likes for this price range.
Spun up the TL-2 today, and made my bushing for the Jeep CPS. Looks like it will work perfect. This is a great, and easy way to get cam signal to the engine management system. And the best part about it, is I can stop at any parts store and replace the CPS as a drop in unit for just over $30 should things go bad on the road!!! I made two of them because I have another person who is going to try it out on a GM management system programmed to run a 440 as well. My only concerns are that I gave it a .001 slip fit, and that could be a problem should the CPS vendor not hold tolerance. We will see I guess. Take note that the gear on the CPS will just float inside the block on the shaft. It's simply there to retain the guts of the CPS, and that's it.
I made it out of 7075 we had floating around for Billet Hand guards. (http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_big.gif)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-9nto2Lay6YI/UWR9BI7tOzI/AAAAAAAAAFI/_Dl8bJ2VzY4/s912/efi12.jpg)
Now you get a perfect example side by side of what I am accomplishing with this bushing.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KRnrWRn_lsg/UWR9BVWXDdI/AAAAAAAAAIA/prqcAt4lOJ4/s912/efi13.jpg)
A little more junkyard shopping today!
I got all my pigtails for my Raptor injectors off a ford econo-line van. I picked up a few GM MAT sensors from a couple Saturns. And I also snagged this 36-1 Crank trigger wheel off a ford excursion.
The pulley is the stock 440 Mopar pulley. I will machine the center out of the trigger wheel, turn a small step in my stock pulley and slip the trigger wheel in place. I will then TIG weld it to the pulley.
Total price today out the door for everything is $16! (http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/smiley_abused.gif)
I also ordered a new TPS, and AIT from Rockauto, I will source the pigtails from the junkyard.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--5mHcytK6LA/UWR68nLYasI/AAAAAAAAACI/x086B4Lkr44/s912/efi14.jpg)
Ok, the entire thread is now moved over here, I will call it home!
Hope you guys don't mind the tech overload, and all the pictures. :nana:
:shruggy: Me have Holley Double Pumper.
But seriously.... looks like resourceful fun. Pure hot rodding.
should have told me earlier dude - I have a Ford EDIS-8 system off my old megasquirt with pulley and reluctor wheel on it already - if u need it just shoot me your mailing address because it's going in the trash next week
That is whats so fun about Megasquirt... It truly is hot-rodding for the modern age. it fits right in with the Jeeping I do, and the fact that getting it to work better then you can buy it for, and using stuff found in junkyards makes it feel like I did it myself. If the Edelbrock Manifold wasn't such a good looking piece, I may have tried my hand at fabbing my own.
Quote from: Rolling_Thunder on February 25, 2013, 12:16:41 AM
should have told me earlier dude - I have a Ford EDIS-8 system off my old megasquirt with pulley and reluctor wheel on it already - if u need it just shoot me your mailing address because it's going in the trash next week
*recordscraaaattttcchchchc*
Pulley with a wheel on it!!! got pics of it? May save me some time!
Alright, I have no idea what all you're saying but that's okay....how much to build me one of those man, I want efi! :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: Dino on February 25, 2013, 07:50:03 AM
Alright, I have no idea what all you're saying but that's okay....how much to build me one of those man, I want efi! :icon_smile_big:
:yesnod: lot of thats going way over my head too :faint: :lol: doing some clever stuff Dude thanks for sharing , keep the updates coming , :cheers: :cheers: :popcrn:
want EFi too at some stage , :scratchchin:
prolly go for a fast EFi set up , looks like a plug in job , don't like causing my self un nessary aggravation now :lol: :yesnod:
Interest here also.
Heard good things about Megasquirt.
Will be following this....
It's still over my head too, but I must be learning something, cuz a tiny bit of what you described made sense :2thumbs:
Words were written, I understood some of them.
This obviously is an engineering exercise for you, I'm guessing you wanted maximum tweakability/tunability. The setup is not exactly 'dirt cheap', so budget isn't primary.
Can you give a little bit of an explanation about what each system you looked into had as pros/cons?
very cool!!
What I as looking for: EFI
FAST was $2300 and I would get everything I needed, but it would be a closed off system I could only make small changes. I would also only have a TBI setup, no spark control. Meh... I know its good stuff. but I wanted more.
FAST offers The better setup, that does sequential, but it's expensive as all getout.
MSD Same as above
Holley and the likes Same as above.
The Edelbrock Pr-Flo XT System was more what I was after, but again, it's tunability was Meh... and it was $3600!!! :o
Enter Megasquirt.
The more I started reading about it, the better I felt about it. It would do Full sequential fuel, and spark, accept Idle air controls, Two nitrous stages, Launch control, Full logging to include my own voice recorded over the log if I wanted it. I can set it up to tune it via bluetooth off of my phone if I want. It fully destroys anything else out there in my mind.
And it's CHEAP!!
You just have to take the time to read the forums, and the documentation. Honestly after a week of research, the EFI stuff is silly simple. It's spark, fuel, a cam sensor, crank sensor, and a map sensor.
I can also let the Megasquirt "Self Learn" through tuner studio if I want to.
I won't be more than $1500 into this whole setup after I sell my carb and intake.
Also keep in mind, I went with the full boat, best ECU you can build from Megasquirt. Had I gone with an MS2, and done a batch fire system instead of the full sequential, It would have been cheaper. Me taking the time to source sensors and such is what makes the system so cheap. But honestly all this stuff is out there sitting in junkyards for the taking.
Interesting responce.....a lot of your reasons mirror mine. Being able to self tune to changes in the driveline is second from the top of the list.
Just have not had the time to properly research....I'm likely a couple of years from doing anything. [gotta a lot to do on the car first to even get it on the road]
Your take on relibility? Top of the list for me. I've only talked to a couple of people so far....they have not had it long enough to really know yet.
Thanks
If this is true sequential so no fuel goes to waste then that should be as efficient as a 440 is ever going to get. And at that price I'll take it!
Thanks for documenting this! The only EFI that I'm currently fooling around with is on a small block and it doesn't need any (many at least) modifications. I'm on the fence about using MS as a controller though as I really don't need any of the advanced features at this point. If/when I do concentrate on a big block the MS system will probably move to the top of the list.
Troy
:popcrn:
Hummina...hummina...hummina... :o
And I thought I had my hands full with a 6-pack. Very nice work. You have mad silly skills. :2thumbs: :bow:
Quote from: bill440rt on February 25, 2013, 04:20:34 PM
Hummina...hummina...hummina... :o
And I thought I had my hands full with a 6-pack. Very nice work. You have mad silly skills. :2thumbs: :bow:
Now now Bill, six packs are not that hard, just go one can at a time. :icon_smile_big:
Great info. Got me inspired to build one of these systems.
I was intrigued by the title of this thread......so I clicked, and it was the the last thing I understood. I feel like a 'tard. :-\
More progress today.
I received the pulley/crank trigger wheel from Rolling_thunder today! Thanks again man, this is saving me a ton of work. It is literally exactly how I would have done it.
So the Megasquirt needs to know exactly where the engine is in its operation. It does this via two sensors for a true full sequential setup. One sensor is the crank sensor, and the other is the cam sensor.
First the crank sensor I am using is a VR sensor off of a ford. the wheel I am using is a 36-1 wheel. Why is it called a 36-1 wheel? Well, because it has a total of 36 teeth (One each 10 degrees of crank), but one is missing! 36 minus 1. The VR sensor knows where the crank is by logging where the missing tooth is, and then each tooth after that for a full 360 degrees of logging.
Thats how the crank sensor works, here is what it looks like working.
I ghetto'ed the pulley and wheel onto a Dawalt drill, and hooked the VR sensor into the Megasquirt via my Stim board. If you remember back, the Stim board is for testing outputs, and inputs, but it has provisions for hooking your real time sensors up to it also.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RGXP6xLBWn4/UWR68k3U3ZI/AAAAAAAAACQ/de67QPzL8us/s912/efi15.jpg)
Next I opened Tuner Studio and used the Tooth Logger function to check my VR sensor and tooth wheel by turning the drill next to the VR sensor in a vise. Sure enough!! i got a good log, and it shows it on the log screen!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GVmH7k23Ljc/UWR9BiBMrWI/AAAAAAAAAFY/8KBHE-E_Vxs/s912/efi16.jpg)
What you are seeing is all the teeth passing the VR sensor. the tall tooth in the log is the missing tooth on the wheel.
While I was running the toothed wheel with the drill, I saw my Injector and spark LED's light up on my stim board, and my notional engine was running!!!
What's the cam sensor for??
The cam sensor tells the engine where it is in 4-stroke operation. The cam sensor is a Hall-affect sensor, and works in the same way as the crank sensor. It's looking to log a tooth pattern. Except the tooth pattern for the cam sensor is a simple half moon. (One big tooth) This tells the engine where it is in the Compression/Exhaust stroke.
So two simple sensors tell the engine exactly where it is in it's total state of operation.
Sounds complicated,
It's not!
I will be able to adjust timing on the fly via a laptop, or my phone... And that is what makes Megasquirt so awesome!
I can't wait to see it on the road! and I actually live in town now, you free this weekend?
Great thread Redmist :2thumbs:
Busy hands
Yes, modern engine technology is a whole new world....
I'm seeing the cam / crank sensors for a couple of years now, and also in the newer diesel engines. If you want to inject diesel fuel in a cylinder at 2000 kg/cm² with up to 7 injection shots per cycle you need electronics.
The days of a good old in-line injection pump are long gone
Quote from: ChargerD100 on March 01, 2013, 04:57:11 AM
I can't wait to see it on the road! and I actually live in town now, you free this weekend?
Sorry sir, I get to work all weekend. Bah!!!
Wow, Interesting stuff! :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
WOW, this is some cool stuff, great work. Now I'm on the Megasquirt site reading...
More junkyard shopping today, and walked out with a bunch of pigtails for $1 :2thumbs:
I averaged the cost out on them for my cost sheet anyhow to make it more realistic.
And here is where the air goes in, it's a Billet 92mm Throttle body as found on Ebay... It was advertised as "Precision Machined" and as long as your machine is a hammer, chain, and dull chisel, than I guess the description was correct! HA!! Honestly for the price, I can get over the crappy corners, and end mill chatter. This thing will work just fine for my application, I found many LS guys running them with no problems. you can see the new TPS sensor, and IAC motor installed in the side of the throttle body. I should have purchased these from the junkyard. They are in every crappy Saturn in the yard! Oh well....
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3F6HWzB0D0Q/UWR69AmyLtI/AAAAAAAAACk/J7S_D-KHoTk/s912/efi17.jpg)
At this point I figured I had better see how much I am into this setup so far. Keep in mind, the only thing left to purchase is plug wires, and an intake filter setup. I am sure other little things will pop up, and I will keep track of them. Here is a picture of everything I have assembled, sourced from the yard, or purchase so far for the project. The only thing missing is my fuel lines, and fittings, I purchased those today, but they are included in the cost breakdown.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-voI6IuYCqnI/UWR69DZPw1I/AAAAAAAAAEY/Z-oPVH_T8BA/s912/efi19.jpg)
Total so far spent on the EFI Project.
Megasquirt MS3 EMS Kit $378.00
Megasquirt MS3X Expansion $ 90.00
Megasquirt relay board kit $ 73.00
Megasquirt relay pre-fab cable $ 85.00
12' Automotive labeled wire for MS3 $ 46.00
12' Automotive labeled wire for MS3X $ 48.00
Megasquirt Jimstim 1.5 $ 65.30
Megasquirt JimstimX test board $ 44.00
32lb/hr Ford Raptor 6.2 Injectors x8 FREEEEE!!!!
Walbro Fuel Pump 255lph $109.00
Inlet/outlet-install kit $ 24.80
Frozen Boost -8 PTFE line 25' $ 87.25
-8 fittings 90's, 45's etc 10 total $ 90.00
Aeromotive 13301 Return regulator $131.95
-8 AN to male 3/8" x 4 $ 11.80
-8 Billet Fuel filter FREEEEEE!!!
Edelbrock Fuel Rail Pro-flo XT Kit $115.95
Edelbrock Pro-Flo XT Manifold $395.90
Jeep Camshaft sychronizer $ 30.95
Throttle Position Sensor $ 32.00
Idle Air stepper valve $ 52.00
Coil pack pigtails LS style X2 $ 64.00
IAC, Injectors, TPS, CPS Pigtails $ 16.00 Junkyard
Crankshaft Sensor $ 5.00 Junkyard
LQ9 Coils, brackets, wires 2003 Yukon $ 50.00 Junkyard
Manifold temp sensor and pigtail $ 3.00 junkyard
92mm Billet LS2 Throttle Body $145.00
TOTAL SO FAR!! $2193.90
Still less than a FAST TBI system, but not by much. Keep in mind, my setup is lightyears over the FAST setup, and it's even far beyond the Edelbrock Offered Pro-Flo kit.
I can still sell my Carb, intake, distributor, MSD 6AL box, and nice new plug wires to get around $500-600 back.
My goal is to be under $2000 in the end after it's all said and done. So far so good! :cheers:
Great thread. I will keep following till the vids on you tube finish the story.
Should be a kick ass ride when it is done bro!
I sold all (most) of my MS stuff back when I sold my 512" stroker - I was using a Edelbrock Victor EFI intake = I like the new pro-flo style intake better.
This is as close as anyone's come to my $1500.00 total bill. i see this might be totally doable for me in the long run for PORTED fuel injection.
They can keep the "Electronic carbs" that TBI units are.
So uhm...how much for the whole thing...for a customer who may want that bolted to a 440? :angel:
ya what Dino said :wave: ..............that would look sick under the hood of my 68 :drool5:
Ha!
I have had a bunch of requests to build the adapter for the cam sensor, but I got guns to build on our equipment. I may contact AndyF of Arengineering and see if he would be interested in building them.
I got the pulley and trigger wheel mounted last night, and have started brainstorming ideas for a sensor mount. As soon as that is done, I will take the MS Unit, and a laptop outside and hook the Crank Sensor to Tuner Studio and dial in my initial timing before I swap over the whole unit to EFI. I plan to slowly integrate the EFI onto the car, but going system by system as best I can.
That's one cool looking setup! :2thumbs:
What SUCKS is the factthat the boss got aa lathe in the shop and refuses to hook it up. I could have those Cam sensor adapters whipped up in no time, but can't due to a lathe that is just sitting. :brickwall:
Started working on my crank trigger bracket. I found a nice .095 steel shipping bracket out back of our shop, and started cutting. I drilled and tapped holes in the side of my 440source billet timing pointer, and mounted the angle bracket to it. I need to trim the shaded areas, TIG weld the top on, and drill mounting holes for the Crank VR sensor. I might make it go fast looking with some holes or something also. It will make more sense when I can show it farther along.
I also ordered some 440source fabricated valve covers, My awesome MOPAR covers don't have enough space on them to mount the coil packs, and I want them mounted on the covers, so the Mopars get sold, and I would hack up a set of 440source covers for the project!
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5aT_ecqCFNA/UWR9Cx9Cm0I/AAAAAAAAAIU/P9OlmcRbPoE/s912/efi21.jpg)
Awesome thread!!!!!!! This is exactly what I have been looking all over the web for. I have a 66 Charger, 383 4 speed. The drive line is fresh, motor is warmer over, nothing wild, but healthier than stock. The motor is sit in the car waiting for the next step, I don't currently have an intake or carb, and was planning on an EZEFI setup, but like you didn't like the restrictions. I read the Mega squirt book( Building your own EFI) over the Christmas holidays. I will be following this with great interest. Can't wait till you fire it up.
Great work.
Cheers
Jeff
Well I am sick today, so work was rough, but I did get a little done on my project.
I welded the Crank VR sensor, blasted it, and test mounted it for the first time to establish hole location for the sensor. I still have a gusset to weld to the top when it is all finished, and I will also speed hole it most likely.
From the top:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4uZOYOrdgm8/UWR690ZeysI/AAAAAAAAAEg/k0_EIDmOAU4/s912/efi22.jpg)
From the bottom:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lCBNtUFy_vI/UWR6-ZJFYDI/AAAAAAAAADA/QDh3jGh8dfU/s912/efi23.jpg)
I need to clearance a little section of of my windage tray that is sticking out from between the pan and the block in order to get my bottom screw in the bracket. No biggie....
I have the VR Sensor at the number 5 tooth in relation to the missing tooth while the engine is at top dead center. What this does in let the Megasquirt ECU know where it is in relation to crank angle. For example, the missing tooth passes over the VR sensor, and the MS reads it. It now looks for 5 more teeth in my case, and when it sees that, it bases its ignition timing off of that 5th tooth.
For example:
My car will be setup with 25deg initial timing, and a maximum of 35-40 based on tune. If I were to place the VR sensor before 30 degrees, or tooth three past the missing tooth, the MS3 would not have enough time to compute timing for my application. Another note is that the VR sensor is not all that important to be perfectly mounted in this relation. If it's WAY off, or a few degrees off, it can simply be adjusted in the software.
Here is some reading on the subject: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/trigger-wheel.html (http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/trigger-wheel.html)
Found this on another forum!!!!
SHADOWDASH MS for Android. You can port over your realtime data via bluetooth to emulate your setup on your laptop.... :nana: :cheers:
You don't find this kind of stuff with the Edelbrock/FAST/Holley Systems. Open Source is awesome!
(http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo356/HahnsB2/DSCF0505.jpg)
Received my 440source fabricated valve covers. These are REAL NICE! I was surprised. They also have plenty of room on them for mounting the coil brackets, and my breather/PCV.
The package is starting to look real modern. I am guessing those that see this setup are going to have a hard time figuring out what the heck kind of engine I am running in this Charger.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6DOlsZApINc/UWR9DdAnAyI/AAAAAAAAAIY/yl6_vD8YuH8/s912/efi24.jpg)
as soon as you start makeing them for the rest of us i will figure out a way to buy the sixpak throttle bodies and we will be golden..................... :2thumbs:
Quote from: mauve66 on March 14, 2013, 07:56:49 PM
as soon as you start makeing them for the rest of us i will figure out a way to buy the sixpak throttle bodies and we will be golden..................... :2thumbs:
That's actually pretty easy to do... run an IAC on the center throttle body, fixed linkage (easier to tune than progressive) and enjoy
Has anyone in research on EFI systems ran across a post/blog/article comparing a B/E body with a 440 before and after adding it - dyno, drivabilty, mpg? I've seen some posts like 'It runs great now!', but I'm looking more for actual data.
very nice :o
Some more fun today....
Finalized the bracket on Crank, and started logging the tooth pattern while cranking.
Here is an example while just cranking. The missing tooth is obvious from the large single spike. The humps between the spikes are the compression stroke of each cylinder slowing down the timing of the log. This is what the MS3X sees as an input.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-q3tQMNKE_Y0/UWR9HNlo3LI/AAAAAAAAAHI/HSxXlEDhXiY/s912/log1.jpg)
And this is what the MS3X converts it over to as a usable digital signal:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_N_6m_yYAzI/UWR9HZB6WDI/AAAAAAAAAHM/KzFt5xcLJmk/s912/log2.jpg)
I also ordered a $50 RS232 to Bluetooth adapter and got it all setup on my phone. I was able to walk about 80 feet away from the unit and still log what was happening real time on the MS3X. This will prove to be a valuable tool while under the hood checking sensors, and tuning the car. The phone, or tablet can also be inverted and placed on the dashboard of your car. It will then shine back at you off the front window as a HUD or heads up display. I will post a video of the phone logging after it is done uploading.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-76pMkkB9zt0/UWR6-oe71hI/AAAAAAAAAEc/J-UJsKoUWy8/s912/efi25.JPG)
Video of the Phone, and MS3X working:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkmzTlGnR8g
Quote from: redmist on March 17, 2013, 04:03:43 PM
Video of the Phone, and MS3X working:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkmzTlGnR8g
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
And a small video of the Crank, and MAP sensors being tested on the running car. so far so good!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB8eOmcsMNk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB8eOmcsMNk)
Awesome work.
Quote from: redmist on March 17, 2013, 06:41:13 PM
And a small video of the Crank, and MAP sensors being tested on the running car. so far so good!
Hi Redmist, I think I met you in another forum, I'm doing the same as you (MS3X, D-585, Siemens Deka 82 lbs injectors etc), but you are ahead of me! My engine block is since 2 months in an engine shop for line boring the mains due to new billet steel caps...seems that we nowadays have a lot of the "manana" mentality here in the snowy north...
Impressing stuff with the Android phone, I may need a bigger screen in my tiny Android phone ;)
I too have to use the distributor as the cam trigger, time and space doesn't allow me to do the triggering on the cam gear itself. I plan to strip the original Mopar distributor of most of the internals, fabricate a cap where I mount the Hall sensor and just have something very simple revolving in the distributor.
If you allow me to post a few small pics in your thread I can show you my induction system etc...
Will follow your thread with keen interest !
Martin, Sweden
Yup... Go ahead sir! As much info as we can add, the better I think.
OK, thanks, I'll add a few pics.
I chose to modify a Mopar M1 single plane intake, just because I had one! I'm Doing all work with the simple tools that I have at home. The injector bungs still remain to be welded, and setting up the throttle and kickdown linkage for the correct operation...everything has to be modified of course...
The ring type 36-1 tooth wheel is going to be welded to the crank pulley, and all fasteners etc. home made.
The throttle body is an Accel 1200 CFM with the Holley footprint. Adapter plate is home made.
I'm using the 383 engine as a test mule in the last picture.
Now if I just could get the engine block from the machine shop so I could start building the engine...I have everything except for the pushrods (the needed length is still unknown).
Cheers,
Martin
Awesome!
This is a great thing to have added to the thread, as I went the ridiculous expensive route. (Still cheap compared to kits) Modifying what you have is another way to save a boat load of money.
Today was good progress!!!
I finished all the things i wanted to check on the running car using Tuner Studio, and decided it was time to strip the car down.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jfk13uPFb0U/UWR9FANA6YI/AAAAAAAAAIc/W3SbkEOPOlc/s912/efi26.jpg)
After getting most of it out, I ran inside and grabbed my CPS Bushing, and Jeep Cam Position Sensor. I have been waiting to see how well this turned out, and it dropped right in and engaged the drive on the oil pump! The stock hold down works great, and I added two little indents on the outsides to self center on the CPS to keep it uniform in how it holds the whole thing down. It hardly sticks up at all, and I think it is a much better solution than using a stock distributor assuming you have a lathe to work with.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Ch4uMhRzF7o/UWR9FWrOR3I/AAAAAAAAAGU/JBYOyiFLoyU/s912/efi27.jpg)
I then put my valve covers on and checked those. Clearance by the brake booster is close... About 1", but that will change when I switch it over to Hydroboost. You can see just how compact the Cam Position Sensor is in the old location of the distributor in this shot also.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HSo_vYozmyg/UWR9FolldfI/AAAAAAAAAHU/mMqZllP8ikY/s912/efi28.jpg)
And finally I set the new intake, and injector setup on the engine!! As you can see I will need to get a different thermostat houseing that is at a 90deg, or 45deg angle in order for the upper radiator hose to clear the throttle body.
It looks wicked so far!!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TvUMCIM62NM/UWR6_U3ehLI/AAAAAAAAADk/8BoN7lf5sEM/s912/efi29.jpg)
I am really looking forward to seeing this finished. It will be interesting to see what happens with the power potential, and fuel economy.
Awesome build!!! We run a megasquirt on a 22rte (Turbo) and it runs awesome!
We are planning a similar build to this except doing dual 4 barrel TB's and building a custom intake to look like old cross ram from the factory.
Very cool to see a megasquirt in a car like this!!
Are those the 440source valve covers? I like the polished look with Chevy LS packs on top.
Correct, 440source covers... they are NICE! Honestly, and made in the US.
Lookin good bro -
Looks killer! :2thumbs: Might have to pick up a set of those valve covers. :scratchchin:
The cam sensor is a really nice solution! Good work!
A glimpse into my activities...injector bungs ready to be welded in the M1 intake...started fitting the coils...
Mhinders,
What are you using for a ECU?
Nice work, looks great!
NICE setup!
Redmist, would you be able to help me out. I run MS1 v3.0 in my BMW drift car and really want to setup launch control/2 step for my turbo setup. I have NO idea how to do so, or what board(s) i need to add....if you can assist or build it for me, of course id gladly pay.
Thanks!
Quote from: redmist on March 26, 2013, 11:58:52 PM
Mhinders,
What are you using for a ECU?
Nice work, looks great!
Thanks, I'm using the MegasSquirt MS3X with full sequential control of ignition and injection. :2thumbs:
Update:
I got the Intake, Valve covers/coils, Throttle Body, and Plug wires all mounted.
I went ahead and added a fresh set of plugs. I used my existing MSD wires and cut them down. I purchased the LS Style boot for the other side and added some heat socks. It looks awesome!!
I also added an intake. This is a temporary setup, and next winter I will relocate my battery, and build a cold air box for the intake.
Ignore the wiring on the firewall, i started digging through it so it looks terrible.
More later!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-aLn4tdnxn2E/UWI66yVp_iI/AAAAAAAAABQ/6itoTMqc7KY/s912/IMAG0189.jpg)
looks great bro!
Looks very yummy!!! Awesome work :2thumbs:
You know, I think a nice old carb and a round air filter would look much better, I'll take all that junk off your hands, no need to thank me. :D
I am waiting for the kit to come out so we can all have "Red Mist Mega Squirt" injected 440's.
Redmist:
Strong work, man!
I joined this forum specifically to be able to post to this thread. I'm doing a similar install (MS 3.57, sequential, LS series truck coils) on a 493 RB. Mine is in a '67 R/T.
I'm using a Victor 440 EFI intake with a FAST 4-barrel throttle body.
You're quite a bit further along than I am, and you're getting a lot done in a short amount of time. Having said that, I do have my crank sensor mounting bracket made, and my trigger wheel is done (exactly like yours). I have mounted the assembly to a spare engine and have tested it while hand spinning it. Soon, I'll do what you did and mount it on my engine that's in the car and test it with the tooth logger.
You have some great ideas. I already had obtained a Lean Burn distributor and some parts from McMaster-Carr to use in gutting it and converting it into a cam sensor. After seeing your idea though, I scrapped my plan and will copy your idea (you know what they say: plagiarism saves time) :-) I'm an electrical engineer at a company that builds custom machinery, and I have a ME friend here will model a spacer in Solid Works, then a machinist buddy to make it for me.
I also like your plan for mounting the coils better than what I had come up with, although I hadn't planned on buying more valve covers.
You haven't mentioned two things I've been pondering:
1 - What are you doing for a fuel system? I had originally planned to add an external pump, but after reading more, I decided that wasn't the best route, for various reasons that I'd be happy to expound upon. I bought a fabricated tank from Rock Valley. It looks great. If someone was a good fabricator (unlike me) and knew what to do, I think they could whip up something similar and save a few bucks. In my case case, since I'd be paying a fabricator anyway, and having to purchase all the parts, I think I came out ahead going this route. My car already has a 3/8 delivery line and a 5/16 return line. The jury is still out on whether this is sufficient, as those in the know don't agree on whether a 5/16" return line might cause a restriction and cause the fuel pressure run higher than the regulator setting.
2 - Where are you going to mount the controller? Behind the glove box, or somewhere on the inside of the firewall would be a great place, but there isn't room there in my case. Under the passenger seat is where I'm looking now, but then you're faced with getting those two huge cables routed to the firewall area without the appearance of two dead Boa Constrictors under your carpet. Admittedly, I haven't spent much time on this matter, and the solution might be easier than I think.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to document all this stuff, and for being so willing to share your ideas. I look forward to this thread progressing to the "I did it!" stage as the months (or in your case, weeks) progress.
Jim
Looks like a great setup!
JimG
Thanks for the compliments!!
Fuel will be served through two -8 lines fed by a 255lph pump found in Miata's and the likes. I have already started fabrication on the system, but always wait till I am done to post it. I have cannibalized a 1/2" Pickup standard fuel sending unit found in the standard stock tank as an upgrade. I have remade the flat round mounting flange and will be TIG welding -8 male conectors to the top of the new plate, and Tig welding the 1/2" pickup, sending unit, and return line on the bottom. It should be a drop in unit for the stock fuel tank.
I plan to upgrade the tank down the road to get some baffling in it.
Mounting the ECU is going to be in the glove box with the factory box portion removed. Most likely I will mount it to the heater box area. I was playing with location last night. One thing to keep in mind is to make sure you can still hook up a Jimstim, and a StimX board for testing purposes without having to take the ECU out of it's mounting location!!
Look forward to seeing your work sir!!
Redmist:
I can post some pictures of my tank for you if you think you could pick up any ideas from it. I have no idea how similar our gas tanks are, but the principle of baffles and such seems to transcend any odd tank shapes.
And what Jeep, specifically, did is that cam sensor supposed to fit? The counter jockey will want to know model, year, engine, etc.
Thanks again, man!
Jim
Sure thing, post up the tank. the more info the better...
As far as the CPS, you will want a "Cam Synchronizer" for a 2003 Jeep Wrangler with a 4.0 I6. My local parts house wanted $90 for one. I ordered it off summit for much less:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-689-200 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-689-200)
I had to purchase a pigtail from the Dodge dealer for it. $36 We don't have any Wranglers in the junkyards here. I was still into it less than what the parts house wanted for one, and I had the pigtail in the end.
Redmist Your set up is Awesome :2thumbs: and are all the other members that have shared :2thumbs: . This is my first reply to a post ever. I am a new member. I am going to try this for the sending unit (Airtex E7072S Fuel Pump And Hanger With Sender) from a 92 jeep Cherokee eBay $92.89 , It looks like it should work well in my 70 superbee gas tank. :-\
I think you could make that work!!
Folks I had to re-host the pictures. Don wurry I feex!!
Fuel tank pictures, as promised. Sorry it took so long. I had a space in the filename, and the attachment bombed when I tried to post. Took me a while to figure that one out.
Initially, I misspoke when I said I bought a "fabricated" fuel tank. This is actually a Spectra tank, modified for EFI.
More tank pictures.
And more
Finally, one more:
Did almost the same thing for my EFI in my 68... but I still use the stock sending unit for the return fuel line.
Very nice on the tank!!! If I start pushing this car through auto cross or the likes, I will do something like you have pictured. For now, I am more on a smoke show/power tour build. Nice work on the tank!
Updates...
and related to the fuel system so it fits right in with the above posts.
I took a piece of .065 sheet, and cut a circle to match the stock sending unit piece. I then used some -8 weld in bungs, and fit them inside the circle.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aamVEGKUXOY/UWsBdjQYaWI/AAAAAAAAAKI/su9fMNCiCVc/s912/IMAG0207.jpg)
Flipped it over, and this is what I am working with.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-d0xnO03-Ehg/UWsBiArzDaI/AAAAAAAAAKY/9h-PalS041Q/s912/IMAG0208.jpg)
Ready for some TIG action. this will be a simple fuse weld, No filler rod. The area has enough to work with, without the rod. I simply start a puddle in Pulse mode at 55 amps, and run it one pulse per second. When the puddle bridges the gap, I move the puddle each second as I work around the bung. I am no expert welder, but the pulse mode, and fusion welds I have down fairly well.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_rTxWzOvfRU/UWsBh2_wHeI/AAAAAAAAAKQ/yB3zV0By2lE/s912/IMAG0209.jpg)
All TIG'd in.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1ncT5oq0hwA/UWsBk3UxxlI/AAAAAAAAAKg/UeNxxEv6Psg/s912/IMAG0210.jpg)
Flipped over, and test fit with the -8 fittings that will be my pickup, and return through the stock tank hole.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZFIzBwu9UA0/UWsBn8tjOvI/AAAAAAAAAKw/GDjcNuIDr4g/s912/IMAG0214.jpg)
And here is the total package idea I am going for. I cannibalized an aftermarket 1/2 pickup sending unit, and will be welding the pickup on the bottom of my new plate. I also got some 3/8" brake line for a return that will also be welded to the bottom. In the end it will be a double -8 pickup and return that can be dropped in the factory tank, and will retain the factory style fuel sending unit!
Assuming I don't screw it up from here, it should work good.
All mocked up in place to see what idea I am going with here.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2PljmjeGcCY/UWsBn4iioSI/AAAAAAAAAKs/9YBHxazAVTc/s912/IMAG0211.jpg)
I also mounted my ECU against the heater box. I went half way in and out of the glove box from top to bottom so it could be accessed from either the bottom, or through the glove box. I also found that the notch related to the factory fuse box gave just enough clearance that I could still hook up both my Jim-Stim board, and my Stim-X for testing. This will be great for testing or finding problems without having to drop the ECU out of it's location!!! It's tight, but should work just fine!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-hIXow3kilAI/UWsBcxzea4I/AAAAAAAAAJ8/W_SOXafeDz8/s912/IMAG0196.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-VLEeqw6l5JE/UWsBc1JVuKI/AAAAAAAAAKA/g90Cx60WPnk/s912/IMAG0199.jpg)
:2thumbs:
Redmist:
Good work and great documentation as always! :cheers:
I really hope to retain my glovebox, so I'm going to spend some time working toward that end. I might come to the same conclusion as you; I have no idea how a '67 Coronet differs from a '68 Charger in the underdash area. Before I do any of that, I need to clean up 25 years of add-on wiring under the dash as a stereo, and electric fuel pump, a tachometer, a wideband meter, and who-know-what-else was added on throughout the years. I bought a couple of mini fuse blocks and will add those and get the wiring in decent shape, then I can turn my attention to adding even more stuff under the dash.
On another forum (I can probably find a link if necessary) I read that Megasquirt has trouble dealing with a situation where the 12v supply briefly drops out as the ignition switch is moved from "start" to "run". Possible solutions included a fat capacitor and an add-on ignition switch. Neither appeals to me. I was just wondering if you had addressed this, if you were aware of it, or even if it was an issue on your car.
Rock on!
Jim
I did read about that... I didn't find many instances of it, but not many installations are in these old cars. It looks like the more modern cars get the Megasquirt as an aftermarket solution. It looks like they have a plug ready unit that connects directly to the Mini Cooper S ECU harness!! My wife might be getting a megasquirt for her autocross sessions! Launch control would be awesome on the Mini! Swap the factory ECU back over for emissions.
I will just have to get that far along and see what happens.
Ok kids!! Lets keep working on this before we run out of steam.
Today I went back to the junkyard in search of three main things. An external MAP sensor, A GM Temp Sensor, and a throttle cable that will work with the LS style throttle body.
ENTER THE SATURN!!!
Now I don't know if these cars are just junk or what, but it's safe to say the junkyard here is LOADED with them! And that's good in my case, and here's why:
This is a picture of a 2003 Saturn throttle body with the 4-banger in it.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-U4vtKz8r3XE/UXNcU11oqwI/AAAAAAAAALY/7-huSK14RjQ/s912/IMAG0217.jpg)
Wow redmist that looks like crud! Hold on a second, lets check this thing out. What you are seeing is a TPS Sensor, an Idle air control valve, an external LS style MAP sensor, and behind the block a Temp sensor. and also a long throttle cable that will hopefully reach my peddle.
Here are all the sensors I pulled off of this car. I could have also pulled the Intake air temp sensor, but i already have two of those.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2ZAD6Jsk4js/UXNcUsn_5PI/AAAAAAAAALM/ltNHQimtLzs/s720/IMAG0218.jpg)
And here is all my parts from today's trip.
Two MAP sensors, two Temp sensors, a TPS, an IACV, and a Throttle cable, PLUS All the pigtails!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pH0epJe_9BQ/UXNcUrU5bkI/AAAAAAAAALg/-Bo_UD-P9Zc/s912/IMAG0219.jpg)
Total out the door was $16!!!! Now we are saving some money. If you remember back, I had purchased a new IACV, and the valve alone cost me $48... My point is, this can all be done super cheep, and the junkyard is your friend.
Here is the ACDELCO external MAP sensor installed in the hole that the Edelbrock intake comes pre-made for.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lCmVIKUS4I0/UXNcVNr-k0I/AAAAAAAAALk/ARuKbJbbpOY/s912/IMAG0222.jpg)
What about the MAP sensor that's already on the Megasquirt? Why two MAP sensors?? The reason I am running two sensor is so I can have constant barometric pressure correction. I am going to hook the GM MAP on the manifold to the MS3X, and the on board map I am going to leave open to atmosphere. I can set the sample rate for whatever I want. For example, If I am climbing a pass in the car, I can have the MS3X Sample the on board MAP for Barometric pressure, and have it make changes as altitude increases. Set the sample rate for something like every two minutes or so.... Flippin cool Eh!! :yesnod:
Lets get into wiring.
You will notice the green relay board on the firewall. This is a megasquirt item that makes installs in our older cars silly easy. It has a header on it that I run all my input wires to. So all my sensors will simply terminate right at that box. It has the relays and fuses already built in for fuel pump, main power, and injector power. There is a large cable that connects from the board to the MS3 unit onder my dash. I did have to cut a large hole (1") in the firewall for it to pass through but who cares.. shes not stock, and she's nothing special!!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zDm6DZfXMro/UXNcVbhc2CI/AAAAAAAAALs/Oy1ZdWABlOM/s912/IMAG0226.jpg)
And here is the wires we are running tonight: CRANK VR sensor, IACV, TPS, Coolant temp, and Intake temp.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1TG04l7F730/UXNcV4b1qsI/AAAAAAAAAMA/3GzliuwMRKM/s912/IMAG0228.jpg)
I purchased a large bundle of wire from Megasquirt that has all the nice wires I need. They are labeled the entire length of the wire, and as you will also notice, the wires match the colors of my GM pigtails! Talk about easy! There is enough wire here to wire up two cars.
I found a place for my Intake Air temp in the sillycone elbow of my intake. I simply cut a hole, and pressed the sensor in. This is how they are held in on the Saturns and other GM cars. Just make sure you don't cut your hole to big. You want it to seal up, so it should be a firm press fit.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vg-NLyJerDU/UXNcVzUtg8I/AAAAAAAAAL8/AbhJzOvRF4Q/s720/IMAG0231.jpg)
And I started running my wires, and building my input harness.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kV7amDYFQb8/UXNcWJ4YlRI/AAAAAAAAAME/mHslY21EoRQ/s720/IMAG0232.jpg)
that's all for tonight!
Wow, Redmist, I must be psychotic! I logged on to ask about wiring and where you'd chosen to punch holes in the firewall for the cables and Viola! There it is. I only see the mainboard cable - have you gotten the other one in yet? I plan to find grommets to get a tight seal between the firewall and the cable. I plan to see if a commonly available PCV grommet will do the trick. I would have preferred to use a big multiconductor plug (like the factory would have used) but after an exhaustive search, I never found an aftermarket one that was watertight like you'd find in an OEM installation, so I gave up and decided to use grommets.
I now have my trigger wheel and sensor mount complete (with the exception of installing a plug on the end of the sensor pigtail, making it quick disconnect) and mounted on my spare engine. I'll get pictures up within a few days. It's not as pretty as yours, but I think it will suffice.
My Jeep cam sensor came in and my buddy will start modeling the spacer soon.
I'm waiting as long as I can before I disable the car, as cruise-in season has started. I had planned to be much farther along at this point but [insert lame excuses here].
Good work! Keep it coming.
Jim
Seriously if you ever decide to make kits for others, gimme a call!
Awesome work.
JimG,
I am doing all the inputs first, then I will move onto the outputs. The only two inputs I can't directly wire to the relay board is the external MAP, and the CAM sensor. Those are added functions of the MS3X Expansion board, and will have to be routed to the MS3X instead of the MS3. :2thumbs: And you are right, an automotive application specific plug would be much better. the DB-37 Connectors or sorta Meh, but people say they are fine. I am also a little concerned about the bulkhead connector on the relay board. If I have any problems with the install I am guessing it will be from this area. Again, I would have liked to see an over built connector here. Honestly I might down the road build another board, and solder the wires directly to it instead of using the bulk head connectors. You mentioned an OE type connector available, and I plan to source one from the junkyard. TONS of firewall plugs for the taking that could be used to simply pass wires through the firewall. I noticed almost every car has one that could be hacked out, and used in this application instead of the grommet pass through. I will swap it over some day. That will be down the road however.
you said the car is nothing special but with the work your doing it certainly is SPECIAL :2thumbs:
OK Redmist, the way you get incredible quantities of work done is such a short period of time inspired me to finish up my crank sensor this morning.
As I stated previously, I'm not much of a fabricator, so my mind automatically came up with a "bolt together" solution. I'm using a sensor from DIY. I can add shims between the sensor and the bracket to get the desired air gap. You can see that I have a couple of copper-colored shims in there now. I intentionally made the sensor "too close" to the wheel without shims and planned to add shims to get it right. This morning, I added the QD plug to the sensor, and will add it's mate to the wiring harness when I wire the car.
I bought some 3/8" studs and coupling nuts from McMaster-Carr and replaced two of the timing cover bolts with them. The flat washer between the timing cover and the coupling nut is too big; I'll find some smaller diameter ones before I install this contraption on the engine in my car. The studs are also too long, and I'll shorten them... I just didn't have my Dremel tool with me this morning.
Jim
Redmist, a question regarding your second pressure sensor. I should say at this point that I am familiar with the tuning aspect of Megasquirt only in a rudimentary fashion. I'm not nearly as far along as you are, and so far my attention has been mainly on hardware and figuring out the wiring, so this might be a stupid question, but here goes anyway.
First, I assume you'll wire the second sensor into an unused analog input? Second, and most importantly, will you be using a wideband meter? If so, wouldn't the exhaust O2 go lean if you drove to high altitude and and wouldn't Megasquirt compensate without the need for a second pressure sensor? I realize that you'd have to allow it enough authority to make the changes, and perhaps this is why you chose to go that route.
Assuming I'm full of hooey up this point, how will you integrate the second sensor into your fuel (and perhaps spark) map(s)?
Regarding the relay board - I bought one of them but have decided not to use it. A few Bosch automotive relays on the firewall or in the car will accomplish the same thing. The thing looks rather fragile and unprotected to be under the hood of a car. Call me paranoid...
Thanks,
Jim
very coo EFI project, thanks for sharing your tech info & knowledge....
JimG, Regarding the calibration in regards to EGO sensor and BARO sensor... the answer is, I don't know, haha How the computer gets a barometric reading without two MAP sensors is by sampling the MAP just before startup. So as soon as you turn the key, the ECU samples the MAP before you start. This gives it correct barometric pressure, and uses it for tuning. How it uses it, I don't know yet. It must do something, because it is a common application with the megasquirt to run two MAP sensors. From the reading I have done, the BARO correction has to do with increased exhaust back pressure at altitude. It's "Hilly" here in Idaho, so I am going to give it a try.
I am running an EGO sensor. It's an AEM that I already had in the car. It's a simple one wire hookup to the megasquirt assuming the ground is good to go.
I think you are correct about the relay board. The more I play with it, the more I think it's going to fail. I guess I will be a test subject on this one! I drive the crap out of this car, and I drive it hard, so if anyone can get it to fail, I will.
I think your Crank sensor should work just fine. Vibration is what kills them, and yours looks fine to me. :2thumbs:
And todays work:
I got all my input sensors wired in today. Take note that the CAM in is part of the MS3X and does not go to the relay board. Same for the second MAP sensor. The default MAP is physically part of the MS3 board. An additional MAP is a function of the MS3X so it also got hooked to the MS3X and not the relay board.
Anyhow, here is the board all wired up, and I also drilled my second pass through for all my outputs.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SMJGUNto-v8/UXSweJ21uLI/AAAAAAAAAMs/MucpRopSFGw/s912/IMAG0235.jpg)
Here you can see a cluster of the sensors. almost all of them terminate in the same area, so it's going to be a clean install!!
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OGLHbhBGhEg/UXSwd1dSYqI/AAAAAAAAAMo/-TLFroJgK8g/s912/IMAG0236.jpg)
Next I made up my MS3X output harness. This is every single wire that can possibly be hooked to the MS3X. I wont be using all of them though. Everything on the right, I am using. The bundle on the left will be hidden under the dash for expansion. It's stuff like Map switching, Nitro control, launch control, Analog ins, Variable valve timing, Flex fuel, Extro EGO ins... Anyhow. It will be there if I ever need it. the bundles on the right are Spark outs, Injector outs, Grounds, Tach out, MAP 2 in, and CAM in.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lNJ2JoGfPCw/UXSwdwhheUI/AAAAAAAAAMg/MBgXezAon0c/s912/IMAG0234.jpg)
Passed through the hole, and ready to start laying on top of my existing harness. I remembered to put my grommet in the hole on this one though DERP! It's not seen in the picture though.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-JSVSf2t2tyU/UXSwiSnoeII/AAAAAAAAAM8/DHiZtqzqxbY/s912/IMAG0239.jpg)
And i just couldn't help myself.... After getting this far, i just had to see the log working in tuner studio!! So I hooked up the one remaining wire to my CAM Position sensor from the MS3X, and opened tuner studio!!
CRANKING!!!!!!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9Xd2m9t3yGM/UXSwhlTuPzI/AAAAAAAAAM0/mxlZsd9NPNE/s912/IMAG0242.jpg)
AWESOME!!!!!!
What you are seeing here is the CAM Position sensor on the top (green) Crank position sensor in the middle (Blue) and "Sync Error" on the bottom (red).
You will notice that the top green line is mimicking my half moon cam sensor, and my crank sensor is showing where the missing tooth is. Also note that the missing tooth falls in the middle of both the highs, and the lows of the cam sensor... BAM! the car now knows exactly where it is at in the compression/exhaust stroke, and it knows timing based off crank!! the red line on the bottom being flat shows ZERO signal error. While cranking, I got a "SYNCED" message in Tuner studio that tells me that if I had the rest of the car wired up, it would have fired and ran!!
Almost there!! Little more wiring, and a fuel system and I can fire it up. :2thumbs:
Next on the list.....
Injectors and coils:
(http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/pix/seq-wiring-8cyl18436572-simple.png)
Your persistence is motivating, Redmist!
I've decided to get my car going in "spark only" mode at first... keeping the carb in place but letting Megasquirt run the ignition.
You still need most of the sensors in place and debugged for it to run, but I figure it might be easier to just deal with the spark table, especially since I'm still learning about it. :popcrn:
Jim
Smart idea honestly... And it's a nice way to flow into the change over with less down time. :2thumbs:
redmist, great read, I love the ingenuity, I love you sharing your knowledge base... but you did all that great work, you have a great combo, why not get your induction/intake air from somewhere much cooler {outside the engine compartment}, any place as dry & cool as possible, other than the engine compartment HOT Under hood intake air charge... I would think that will kill some power too.. It's just a thought, I'm not picking on it, I'm curious & was wondering what the reasoning was there ??
Budnicks, it will be addressed down the road for sure. My plan is to move the battery to the trunk, and have the air intake do a turn at that location, and then have the air intake right behind the drivers front light area....
That is unless a Pro-Charger finds is way in the location where the battery is first... :2thumbs:
Quote from: redmist on April 22, 2013, 11:57:58 PM
Budnicks, it will be addressed down the road for sure. My plan is to move the battery to the trunk, and have the air intake do a turn at that location, and then have the air intake right behind the drivers front light area....
That is unless a Pro-Charger finds is way in the location where the battery is first... :2thumbs:
:2thumbs: sounds like a great idea, I like the whole set up, the Pro-Charger would also be a great addition... :cheers:
UPDATE:
Here is where I am at. All I need is a supply line to the fuel rail, and I can fire it up. :2thumbs:
Here is a video to keep you guys content.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNzlqlgHOEU
cool video, thanks for sharing, lots of information...
I am really looking forward to you getting it running. It will be very interesting to see what kind of power it will make compared to a carb and dizzy, and also the fuel consumption comparison.
Quote from: Paul G on May 16, 2013, 04:46:29 PM
I am really looking forward to you getting it running. It will be very interesting to see what kind of power it will make compared to a carb and dizzy, and also the fuel consumption comparison.
Interesting topic...if you think about wide open throttle power there is probably no advantage with correctly tuned port injection compared with a correctly tuned carb...in fact there is some evidence that feeding the fuel in the throttle body (like a carb...) may have a slight power advantage at WOT (Megasquirt forum, success stories, Hemi built for Engine Masters challenge, where throttle body injection was found to give slightly more power than port injection, all on WOT only).
So I think one can say on WOT there is no difference basically. The big advantages with EFI is the tunability, and the drivability that good atomization of the fuel gives on low revs, where a big port/big intake/big carbed engine has difficulties due to slow air speed and fuel dripping from the walls of the intake. The EFI with port injection doesn't care much about slow air speed, and you can set the air-fuel mixture (and ignition) to whatever value the engine wants just by a little typing on the keyboard, and the engine is smooth as silk even on low revs.
The extensive tunability gives you the tools to easily minimize the fuel consumption at cruising speeds.
A guy not far from here has built a new 5-cyl Audi for dragracing. The engine gives 1200 BHP (engine is 2.8 liters I believe), and the car is very streetable, it's unbelievable if you have been struggling with with carbs a bad fuel atomization clogging some spark plugs while other are dry. And think about the MotoGP bikes...well over 240 hp from a 1 liter engine, revving 17000 rpms, and smooth as silk when they just off-idle drive out from the pits...try that with carbs!!! :cheers:
It's alive!!!!
First try at starting gave me a massive puff of smoke through the intake. I had fire event set 360deg out of phase. I switched to Wasted COP Spark, and tried again today. Fired and ran for two seconds and died. Cranking cranking.. nothing...
Smelled like gas real bad, opened laptop, dropped cranking pulse width down a bit, dropped required fuel down a ton, and started! She fired and ran! SUPER LEAN! Upped my required fuel to my original value, and we are in business!!
This is the smoothest this engine has ever ran. Honestly it makes me think I may have had an intermittent problem or something with the old MSD/distributor setup. It is super smooth, and just winging the throttle by hand, the response is amazing. it climbs the RPM's like it never did before.
I have a lot of tuning yet to do, but my target AFR is closer with no tuning on this megasquirt system then it ever was with a year of tuning on the carb.
Take your carb, throw it in the trash... ;D
I am going to run it on wasted spark for a while and sort out my fuel maps, then I will switch it over to sequential spark after that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpIgmTehfvQ
Congrats!!! Must be a great feeling! :2thumbs:
:coolgleamA: :2thumbs: awesome job :yesnod: :2thumbs: :scratchchin:
sounds great...
Congrats on propelling a classic mopar into the 21st century :2thumbs: :coolgleamA: :cglow:
Very nice! It's a good feeling when you put all that hard work into the wiring and computer tuning for that first start up. Now the long process of fine tuning the car begins!
oh and I will need that MS tune from you once you get all your dyno tuning/bugs worked out... :D
You running MS 3.0? Maybe you already answered that.
Correct, MS3X
As far as tuning, all I have to do is drive the car... it tunes itself using VEAL. :2thumbs:
Here is a small video showing how Tuner studio uses the maps I have created. The only thing you are responsible for are AFR, and Ignition timing. Knowing where these should be from my old carb setup makes setting up the maps easy. After that, VEAL or Autotune will smooth the VE map from there. As you drive it looks at how much the ECU is correcting to match your target AFR. it then makes those changes to your VE table and smooths it out. So Instead of your ECU constantly trying to hit your target AFR, it just uses the VE table from then on out.
I created a dirty map real fast to see how it works.
Also take note that the car has sat all night, and all day. This was the first start since I made the last video. I just sat in the car, reached over and turned the key. ;) And I haven't even let it autotune anything yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdWiAnOgl1E
I want one...
That's really interesting to see it start and run, and the engine bay looks damn cool!
What's left to do before it is test driven?
I'm stunned.
See what happens when you stay away from this list too long?
I've had so many answers given and solutions presented to make my project better and easier than I'd imagined. My manifold is still a couple months (!) away from completion, but I'm getting hard onto the other details as soon as we get home from the Power Tour.
I can't wait until we all have these projects finished and can compare notes. My old Holley Commander 950 system is so nice I'll never have a carb on anything I drive more than 50 miles at a time, and it's a crude, stupid, hard to tune system.
One thing I'd like to point out to the casual readers interested in EFI is that with these electronic systems, all the sensors and software and wires don't do anything more than what your brain does when you tune a carb/distributor; they merely provide information to the electronic brain. Viewed that way, it should be pretty simple to see that this is much easier to tune than a carb since you can actually see what's going on with your eyes instead of imagining it in your head. You don't need to read the plugs to tell you if you're too rich; you can see the A/F ratio on the screen. You don't need to get out the timing light; you can see the timing on the screen.
EFI is awesome. And, once you've tuned an EFI system, you'll be amazed at how much better you can tune a carb/distributor system afterwards since you so much better understand what's going on in there.
Quote from: elacruze on May 29, 2013, 08:37:11 AM
I'm stunned.
See what happens when you stay away from this list too long?
I've had so many answers given and solutions presented to make my project better and easier than I'd imagined. My manifold is still a couple months (!) away from completion, but I'm getting hard onto the other details as soon as we get home from the Power Tour.
I can't wait until we all have these projects finished and can compare notes. My old Holley Commander 950 system is so nice I'll never have a carb on anything I drive more than 50 miles at a time, and it's a crude, stupid, hard to tune system.
One thing I'd like to point out to the casual readers interested in EFI is that with these electronic systems, all the sensors and software and wires don't do anything more than what your brain does when you tune a carb/distributor; they merely provide information to the electronic brain. Viewed that way, it should be pretty simple to see that this is much easier to tune than a carb since you can actually see what's going on with your eyes instead of imagining it in your head. You don't need to read the plugs to tell you if you're too rich; you can see the A/F ratio on the screen. You don't need to get out the timing light; you can see the timing on the screen.
EFI is awesome. And, once you've tuned an EFI system, you'll be amazed at how much better you can tune a carb/distributor system afterwards since you so much better understand what's going on in there.
Now I really want one!
Ahh Autotune. Good choice!
A buddy of mine is running the same MS3x with a twin turbo 318 68' Charger. EFI and auto tune. Says it works awesome and takes a little time to learn but with the right AF input it does wonders!
This is so inspiring! We are thinking of running MS3 with twin throttle bodies that appear like the old factory dual quads. Just need to fab up an intake manifold, and do a little wiring.
I'll be selling these as soon as my port injection system is on.
you could also just use actual carbs for throttle bodies with a port system, just don't put fuel to them.
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73529.0;attach=142218;image)
Quote from: Homerr on May 29, 2013, 08:13:34 AM
That's really interesting to see it start and run, and the engine bay looks damn cool!
What's left to do before it is test driven?
All I need to do is hook up the throttle cable, and Lokar kickdown linkage and I can drive it. The throttle cable I got out of the saturn was WAAAYYY to long!! So back to the junkyard for a shorter one. other than that, all just little fixit things here and there, Cable tie wires, looming, and thats about it.
Alright, I robbed a throttle cable out of a Chevy Caprice, and it was the perfect length. I opened the hole in the firewall, and the Chevy cable snapped right in, and the retention clips hold it perfectly. My peddle will have to be extended for throw, as i can only achieve 60% Throttle with it's current throw. Interesting enough, the stock pedal is not in line with the stock firewall hole. It's as if it needed extending from the factory.
Anyhow, it's hooked up and functioning.
The Lokar kickdown cable I modified by slipping a Saturn throttle cable inside the sheath (Saturn cable is silly long, so perfect for kickdown cable.) It was the same length as the Lokar. I then attached the Lokar stuff on the trans side, and still need to hook that side up. The engine side is all done though!
The little clip that is holding the two cable together at the back of the manifold came off of a Ford Econoline Van. :icon_smile_big:
Junkyard Speed!!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-97QD8PHOIXw/UawCPj8KYSI/AAAAAAAAARI/CsHnb4Ls-PQ/s912/IMG_2832.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zzPO1T6aJN8/UawCP8OIRlI/AAAAAAAAARM/z2Eo09I26x4/s912/IMG_2833.JPG)
I have also been playing with timing tables, and 02 Sensor correction factors. I got my idle enrichment, and idle compensation valve dialed in. It starts, and goes to 1050 RPM's during warm up, and slowly tapers off as temperature increases to 900 RPM final idle setting after warm up enrichment, and Idle air control valve are all done doing what they do. :2thumbs:
:2thumbs: Sound great, I'll keep watching....
Very Cool! :2thumbs:
^^What he said^^
Redmist i may have to get with ya my dad is talking bout doing this to his 71 duster
Hey no problem!
I have been driving it around the last few days, and I must say, it's the first time I have driven the car and not worried about it. Not checking gauges, listening for noises, Just cruising, AFR gauge right at 14.5:1 down the freeway, LOVE IT!
I still have some warm up stuff to tune, and need to get the VE map tuned in the high rpm areas, but it's 100% driveable : ) I also got all the wiring loomed up, and covered. I will post a video tonight of the logging function and just how useful it is...
I saw your post on Moparts and jumped over to see how you were doing.
How difficult was it to get the spark table built? Did you find a similar one and copy it as a starting point, or did you make it from scratch?
Thanks!
Jim
Very nice job :cheers:
Quote from: JimG on June 13, 2013, 01:23:55 PM
I saw your post on Moparts and jumped over to see how you were doing.
How difficult was it to get the spark table built? Did you find a similar one and copy it as a starting point, or did you make it from scratch?
Thanks!
Jim
I made it from scratch...
I know what the engine likes because I had it dyno'd and played with the timing. Basically you can just mimic what your distributor did, and just use that if you want. I did just that, I know the engine wants 35 total as thats what it made the most torque on, and I know it wants 21deg's at idle, so all in by say 2800 or so, and interpolate back down to 21 from there. I will post some pictures here is a bit.
Ok, Assuming you are running an old school dizzy with no vacuum advance, a spark table to simulate that directly would look like this:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-R2es-SRKDl0/Ubpa_ni0HwI/AAAAAAAAAUQ/U5Ksb5zMukE/s912/spark2.jpg)
Nice and easy right? My car would run just fine on the above, so I started with the above map, and added in some "vacuum advance" and ended up with this map here:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IMW04YTeQpk/Ubpa_u6w-gI/AAAAAAAAAUU/WFvUJLyvVS8/s912/spark1.jpg)
Bumped the timing up at idle, added some higher timing in the lower KPA areas for cruising, and as you can see at full KPA (full throttle, full load) my map is super simple just like the first one. the above one has changed a little since I have been driving it, but it gives you an idea...
Oh! "3D" maps!
They help a bunch for smoothing out your maps.
Here is the first map in 3D:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-IDdqMVbNlgw/Ubpc5JRrdfI/AAAAAAAAAUs/wbD01kvtVW0/s912/spark3.jpg)
And my current map in the car in 3D... Take note that I added a little more timing at 700 RPM's so it builds a little kicker ramp in the 3D map. the reason I did that is so when the car is loaded down from an accessory or the likes, and it draws down to 700 RPM's, it will hit this little advance of timing and correct itself back to 900RPM target RPM. :2thumbs:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-aZI311lU-Hg/Ubpc5EOOWmI/AAAAAAAAAUw/JL2yPuVubSc/s912/spark4.jpg)
Thanks for the explanation. That's sort of how I figured it would work, but it's nice to see the semi finished product all laid out.
Reading your posts make me anxious to get moving again on mine. Unfortunately, I've been working (at the job) a lot and haven't done much. Every time I need inspiration, I come back here and read your thread. It never fails to get me fired up again.
Keep the thread going! :2thumbs:
Jim
Alright,
I have about 200 miles on the car since getting it running, and have been tuning using the AutoTune function for my VE map.. it works great! It sees a spike or dip, corrects it, and burns it to the ECU Automagicly. I have had to tune out a hot start issue, and that's where the logging function helps. I literally fixed the issue in under two minutes while sitting in my car with a laptop at a gas station.
So the car was heat soaking after sitting for just a couple minutes. When I would go to restart, it would not light off! I would have to give it a bunch of air to get it to catch and then I was back in business. I pulled into a gas station, purchased a soda, got back in the car, and it wouldn't start. No worries!!! Lets check the logs!
Problem found, Re-mapped real fast, and fixed.... FOREVER. No popping hoods, twisting screws, changing jets, I just moved some dots on a graph, and clicked burn.
Anyhow, Here is a video showing the logging function and how I used it to fix the problem I was having. I don't know how the FAST systems could possibly compensate for these types of issues, perhaps it's less of an issue on a more conservative engine. The MS3X gives you this flexibility for issues like this though, and that's nice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GZUNXc3pEk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GZUNXc3pEk)
Quote from: redmist on May 27, 2013, 01:58:27 PM
I am going to run it on wasted spark for a while and sort out my fuel maps, then I will switch it over to sequential spark after that.
Forgot to ask... have you made the switch yet? :scratchchin:
I did sir!!!
Last night real fast. I was a little worried because my timing was 360 out on my first attempt. I corrected that, but left it in Wasted COP and never switched over. Now that i have it running decent, I went out last night, opened my laptop and switched it over to full sequential spark.... Held breath, turned key and it fired right off! The idle was noticeable smoother than in Wasted COP. I let it run for about 30 seconds and turned it off. I want to check timing again with the switch, but I think I am good to go!
So as of now i am full sequential spark, and fuel... :2thumbs:
Well alrighty then... glad to hear it, good news indeed! Congratulations! :2thumbs:
Quote from: redmist on June 19, 2013, 10:34:33 PM
I was a little worried because my timing was 360 out on my first attempt.
Ok, I haven't been feeling up to par the last few days and may be confused here, but wouldn't 360 out on timing be right on the money? :shruggy:
Quote from: redmist on June 19, 2013, 11:04:25 AM
Anyhow, Here is a video showing the logging function and how I used it to fix the problem I was having. I don't know how the FAST systems could possibly compensate for these types of issues, perhaps it's less of an issue on a more conservative engine. The MS3X gives you this flexibility for issues like this though, and that's nice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GZUNXc3pEk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GZUNXc3pEk)
Wow, Times have sure changed since I started playing with engines. :o That is very cool!
Quote from: Tilar on June 20, 2013, 06:32:38 PM
Quote from: redmist on June 19, 2013, 10:34:33 PM
I was a little worried because my timing was 360 out on my first attempt.
Ok, I haven't been feeling up to par the last few days and may be confused here, but wouldn't 360 out on timing be right on the money? :shruggy:
I think he meant that the cam sensor (distributor) was 180 degress off, which is 360 degrees of engine rotation.
Quote from: JimG on June 21, 2013, 07:02:45 AM
Quote from: Tilar on June 20, 2013, 06:32:38 PM
Quote from: redmist on June 19, 2013, 10:34:33 PM
I was a little worried because my timing was 360 out on my first attempt.
Ok, I haven't been feeling up to par the last few days and may be confused here, but wouldn't 360 out on timing be right on the money? :shruggy:
I think he meant that the cam sensor (distributor) was 180 degress off, which is 360 degrees of engine rotation.
Correct!
I know my trigger angle offset is around 42deg from top dead center, but if the cam position sensor is 180 out it's in the wrong function. So two ways to fix it, open software and add 360 to the 42deg (thats what I did) or spin cam sensor around 180..
I might fix it via CAM sensor down the road just so I don't have 402deg trigger angle showing in my software.
Redmist,
Great stuff here. I've been researching EFI for a while now. You may have talked me into MS. I came across this thread in a search for more info on the eddy intake manifold. I have a cuda and my concern for the intake is hood clearance, but it doesnt look that tall in your pics. How tall is it in relation to your old traditional set up?
Also, another question..
may seem crazy but I assume are you using any sort of MSD or ignition box ? Or does MS take care of all of this?
It's much shorter than my old performerRPM/carb/drop base air cleaner by about 1.5 inches. Plenty of room.
Also yes, Megasquirt takes care of all of it as long as you set it up to do that. Coil selection, and how you are going to activate the spark will matter. Honestly the LS coils I used are the easiest to make work. Its a simple wire it in and go deal. A person could stash all of the coils under the intake manifold if they wanted to keep them off the valve covers. Or on the fenders, or wherever you want honestly.
Quote from: redmist on June 28, 2013, 04:10:33 PM
It's much shorter than my old performerRPM/carb/drop base air cleaner by about 1.5 inches. Plenty of room.
Also yes, Megasquirt takes care of all of it as long as you set it up to do that. Coil selection, and how you are going to activate the spark will matter. Honestly the LS coils I used are the easiest to make work. Its a simple wire it in and go deal. A person could stash all of the coils under the intake manifold if they wanted to keep them off the valve covers. Or on the fenders, or wherever you want honestly.
Awesome! Thanks dude, I'm sure ill have more questions later but I'm putting together a parts list based off this thread. Going to save my questions till the end because I usually find I can answer my own if I just dig enough.
One thing though, the injectors. How did you know to use those injectors? I imagine raptors are hard to come by in junk yards so i've been searching for a database of cars or trucks that will have stock injectors that will work that i can find in a junk yard. Seems about 42-45lbs is what I would need. You sure got lucky with a set of free ones, injectors arent cheap.
It got the injectors from a buddy who ended up putting a procharger in his Raptor. They are to small for my application, but turning up the fuel pressure has made them work fine so far. I will have to see what my duty cycle is like at full throttle, full KPA to see if they are going to need upgraded.
If you do purchase a set of injectors, try to find a set that has been flow tested/matched, and has the data showing what the injector dead time is. That is real good info for your megasquirt tuning down the road. I don't have that info for mine, so I can't tune based off dead time.
Good advice thanks!
FYI.. not positive if they will work or not, but Shelby (2013) GT500 injectors (I think) are 52lb, and rock auto has them for $26 a piece.
Holy cow!!!
I am all over that! Thanks!!!
No problem, I think that will be my source when I get to that point. The Shelby GT 500 is rated at over 600hp with a supercharger so my 550+ HP motor should fine with them.
Quote from: grnfsh on June 29, 2013, 01:09:20 PM
FYI.. not positive if they will work or not, but Shelby (2013) GT500 injectors (I think) are 52lb, and rock auto has them for $26 a piece.
Good info! I'm ready to order my injectors any time now, and had planned on ordering them from DIY. They're about $50 each there. I figure I need injectors in the 42lb neighborhood; if anyone knows an OEM application that uses something like that, I'd much rather pay $26 from Rock Auto.
Thanks!
So I've been trying to come up with different applications that may take larger lb injectors. I'd love to find a chart or data base that list the stock injector properties of different cars.
Redmist, how's the charger running? Any new tuning updates?
Do you have any 'before' MPG with your motor? What about after MPG? Can you switch between performance and economy on the fly? Or is it something akin to reflashing the ROM to do this?
I don't have any before or after for MPG, because I have the typical issue where the gas gauge never registers full. I never tracked it before I made the change.
As far as switching from performance to Econo on the fly... Why yes you can sir! The MS3X Is capable of Map Switching on the fly. What this means is with a simple button, or toggle I can go from one tune to the next. You just have to build your econo tune however. What I see most people doing is making dual maps to compensate for fuel type or grade.
Quote from: redmist on July 11, 2013, 07:36:54 PM
I don't have any before or after for MPG, because I have the typical issue where the gas gauge never registers full. I never tracked it before I made the change.
As far as switching from performance to Econo on the fly... Why yes you can sir! The MS3X Is capable of Map Switching on the fly. What this means is with a simple button, or toggle I can go from one tune to the next. You just have to build your econo tune however. What I see most people doing is making dual maps to compensate for fuel type or grade.
That is so freaking awesome!
Quote from: redmist on July 11, 2013, 07:36:54 PM
I don't have any before or after for MPG, because I have the typical issue where the gas gauge never registers full. I never tracked it before I made the change.
As far as switching from performance to Econo on the fly... Why yes you can sir! The MS3X Is capable of Map Switching on the fly. What this means is with a simple button, or toggle I can go from one tune to the next. You just have to build your econo tune however. What I see most people doing is making dual maps to compensate for fuel type or grade.
Or when you really get involved you have a 2nd set of injectors(16 total) and a little 5 gal fuel cell with lets say 110 or E-85 and a 2nd set of fuel pumps/lines and you blend the two fuels on the fly. :yesnod:
Megasquirts are so full of win. :2thumbs:
Redmist where did you mount your fuel pump at ?
I mounted it on the inside of the passenger frame rail vertically on the part that sweeps up to go over the axle.
I tried to get a good picture of it with my phone, but no dice.. I will try to get a pic later with a better camera.
Who wants mega squirt ME , you need to do a summery of everything you used, I have got as far as putting my injector bungs to the under side of victor junior intake, aimed them at the intake port, stopped there thinking that this is beyond my capability's, would like to learn a lot more , already have a bit more understanding just from reading this thread , are you going to put computer parts in some sort of housing , ? Maybe an old msd housing
I will see if I can do a summary of some sort later on. I do plan on making a bent heat shield to cover the relay board under the hood. The MSD housing is an interesting idea! I have a cruddy old MSD I could hack up! I might just look into that, thank you sir!
Thank you for sharing, great read, if you insulate those electronics and against vibration as well, ? Should help them last , just thinking on what I would do next if I were up to that stage,
Redmist: Thanks for directing me from the msforum to your build thread. I've got a 69 charger that I've been putting together a game plan. I've got an MS3X in a turbocharged miata so tunerstudio is very familiar.
Would you be willing to machine me the bushing you used for the cam sensor bushing? You solved a big piece of my puzzle. I did not want a gutted distributor int he engine bay.
Second (maybe I missed it). Where did you mount your WBO2? How is your exhaust set up?
I planning to use the performer rpm since I have it. However, with the tunability of the MS3x it might be better to use a single plane since I could regain some of the low end.
Just an fyi for others.
diyautotune.com has a lot of stuff for the MS. IAC, IAT sensors, wiring, etc. Their customer service is excellent. A great group of people.
Quote from: MedPhys on July 20, 2013, 09:57:49 PM
Redmist: Thanks for directing me from the msforum to your build thread. I've got a 69 charger that I've been putting together a game plan. I've got an MS3X in a turbocharged miata so tunerstudio is very familiar.
Would you be willing to machine me the bushing you used for the cam sensor bushing? You solved a big piece of my puzzle. I did not want a gutted distributor int he engine bay.
Second (maybe I missed it). Where did you mount your WBO2? How is your exhaust set up?
I planning to use the performer rpm since I have it. However, with the tunability of the MS3x it might be better to use a single plane since I could regain some of the low end.
Just an fyi for others.
diyautotune.com has a lot of stuff for the MS. IAC, IAT sensors, wiring, etc. Their customer service is excellent. A great group of people.
As far as machining the bushing, it's a hit or miss deal. I co-own/run a rather high-tech, bad as machine shop that is dedicated to building all the cool gun parts you people keep purchasing at an amazing pace. If the lathe is open (shouldn't be, or I am not making money) I will run a couple bushings. That could be tomorrow or never. :rofl: I have to keep product going out the door before I play.
My exhaust setup is a simple 3" to an X pipe, to some dumps right before the rear axle. I have a bung in the X-pipe, and that's where my o2 is mounted. I think I am going to move it closer to the collector though, and see if that makes a difference. I already have bungs welded by both collectors.
Thanks! If you get to run it, just shoot me a pm without how much you want for it. What gun shop?
Quote from: MedPhys on July 22, 2013, 08:16:02 AM
Thanks! If you get to run it, just shoot me a pm without how much you want for it. What gun shop?
2A-Arms
Another thought. If you aren't concerned about the sleeve you made being proprietary, then maybe you could post the solidworks file. There is a machine shop in Texas that we use. Reasonable prices, and willing to do one off work. I could get a quote and pass along the info. My project is a ways off, but I'd like to get one of these sleeves in hand. This is a great alternative to the oober expensive belt driven cam timing devices.
I will talk it over with the partners here and see what they say. Technically the solid model/step file is property of 2A-Armament. I doubt anyone would care, but I need to go through my channels before releasing anything to the public. :cheers:
Ill second. I will also be looking for that machined piece for the cam sensor. I do know a machinist but would pay you or him either way. I'd also be willing to pay a little for specs if need be.
Just putting it out there. I may just ask my machinist to come up with something as he is a mopar guy. I'm not in a hurry so if you do end up running a few let me know.
I'm sure if you ran 10 or 20 (depending on time and material cost) you would probably end up selling them all over time if you kept them on the shelf.
I'd by the entire setup if you made it! Awesome stuff.
I think this is the right idea. If we can make it worthwhile to make a run and ensure they are all bought, then it will surely make this more appealing to redmist's company. While I don't want more than two, I'd certainly buy more to get this going.
I'm in for 2.
Alright..... :icon_smile_big:
So, It looks like we may go ahead and do a small run of these. I am going to see what is clearing the 8-axis, and see if we can slug a few of these out real fast. The guys are thinking we are going to blank them out, send them out for anodizing, and then bring them back in for engraving or something cool like that.
Let me work on this a little, and I will keep you guys updated. :cheers:
Nice! :2thumbs:
I'd be in for 1 as well. Starting to talk about a full MS setup on my car. :2thumbs:
I could be convinced to buy a bushing too.
MS will be easy for the rest of us once redmist posts his .MSQ
Things to note about MS for those that are going to give it a go. Every car is different, even if they have the same setup. Someone elses map/msq (lingo for entire tune) can be a good starting point to tweak from, but you never want to flash a new map and drive full tilt without some testing. The tunerstudio learning curve is steep, but rewarding. They are constantly improving the software and firmware. More and more autotune features are coming out. As soon as the GPS sensor stuff gets worked out I think there will even be some spark autotuning. As is, just tuning from logs with a knock sensor is a great tool. It's hard to beat autotuning fuel to a desired AFR.
I hate to say it, but carbs are a thing of the past. (just my opinion)
I would ditch my carb today if there was an affordable bolt on system that did what this one does. I drive my car plenty but it would take me forever to get my investment back, however I think a system like this is the only way to go.
I'm real interested to hear what the mileage is with this setup.
I've got a guy on another forum that builds the MS3x for people. It costs about $200 more than the diy kit, but it's professionally built, tested, and ready to go. If redmist is willing to post his outputs. We could use this as the base spec to have them built.
I have built a diypnp, and I had this guy build my MS3x. By the time you buy the extra stuff to test it yourself, and put it together. The extra cost to have it built is minimal. And he adds the second baro sensor for realtime baro correction. You can get him to add the seq injection module, knock sensor module, and realtime clock.
I realize more tuning is always in order and that's absolutely fine but how much are we talking here to have it ready to bolt on? $3K range?
For the MS3x prebuilt by someone that does it all the time. ~ $750 for the computer, ~$150 for a WB02, ~$30 for an IAT sensor
You can also by them prebuilt from diyautotune.com, but it will cost a little more. You also buy the diy kits there.
MSextra.com is a good place to go to look at the MS3x manual http://msextra.com/doc/index.html scroll towards bottom.
We may need to create an MS3x thread. i don't want to side track the build thread, but I guess the info is still relevant.
Or
MS3-Pro $1199
pre-built with all the expansion cards built in. http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/ms3pro-standalone-ecu-with-839-wiring-harness-p-538.html
I see no need for this unless you want to pay for minimizing hassle, but it would make life super easy. All output adjustments would be made from the software. just tell it what is connected to each output.
Prebuilt MS3x, but not wired to your specific application. $645 (options that you install yourself +$86 for knock module, +$65 for real time clock )
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtiii-ems-system-with-ms3x-expansion-v357-assembled-p-435.html
You can also use this to control an electronic overdrive trans :)
Thanks for all that information. :2thumbs:
I'll have some reading to do tonight. :yesnod:
I will post my MSQ file some time this weekend when I get out to the car. As it has been stated above, each individual setup is different, and my tune may not work for your hardware. However if you want to replicate what I did, it's a good starting point.
Also I have yet to tune my VE table in the higher RPM range, so it's still default and smooth, but it will let people play with it. :yesnod:
looking to do a kenne bell supercharged 440 can you make up a intake and efi for that I wanna keep my hood closed on my 68
Quote from: redmist on July 25, 2013, 05:22:02 PM
Alright..... :icon_smile_big:
So, It looks like we may go ahead and do a small run of these. I am going to see what is clearing the 8-axis, and see if we can slug a few of these out real fast. The guys are thinking we are going to blank them out, send them out for anodizing, and then bring them back in for engraving or something cool like that.
Let me work on this a little, and I will keep you guys updated. :cheers:
Awesome, I'm definitely in for at least one. Keep us posted. You da man!
Here is the response I received from a guy that is a wizard at building these things. He has built many for the miata community and others all over the world.
"I only do fully assembled, fully tested (and I do mean FULLY tested) units. Nothing else.
I have a new unit that will hit the market in early September. Looks like the other Basic MS3s I do, but has two 35-way sealed connectors.
Like I said, it has the same functionality (or even a little more) like an MS3-Pro, only cheaper and in a high-quality, aluminum anodized box.
Should sell for ~$900.
Dimitris"
Quote from: rockitier350 on July 27, 2013, 12:01:34 AM
looking to do a kenne bell supercharged 440 can you make up a intake and efi for that I wanna keep my hood closed on my 68
i asked KB why they only did new mopar stuff and they said there wasn't a market for old stuff :brickwall: :brickwall:
the only other option is a procharger, but it takes up alot of space unless you move the battery to the trunk
Here is my current .MSQ file, as well as a log file from today should you want to play with the logging function.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iuc3ndwwea0yhpg/distro-2013-07-28_18.50.44.msq (https://www.dropbox.com/s/iuc3ndwwea0yhpg/distro-2013-07-28_18.50.44.msq)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4hm01spzjp49u7t/2013-07-28_17.15.48.msl (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4hm01spzjp49u7t/2013-07-28_17.15.48.msl)
I will be posting a fun video here in a little bit. :drool5: :cheers:
This is Bueno!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD_2qB9XnNs
Quote from: mauve66 on July 28, 2013, 02:48:13 PM
Quote from: rockitier350 on July 27, 2013, 12:01:34 AM
looking to do a kenne bell supercharged 440 can you make up a intake and efi for that I wanna keep my hood closed on my 68
i asked KB why they only did new mopar stuff and they said there wasn't a market for old stuff :brickwall: :brickwall:
the only other option is a procharger, but it takes up alot of space unless you move the battery to the trunk
There is a 68 Hemi charger with one of the big KB units on it. He took an old 8-71 manifold and milled the top off then made a new top plate for the KB to bolt to. Seems to be up and running. Not sure what kind of power it made. Only downside I see is that they did not make any kind of intercooler or heat exchanger.
Hey redmist Awesome progress on the 68 Charger !!! Ive been watching :popcrn: this post and Its Bad to the Bone :icon_smile_cool: Don't forget I will buy 1 or 2 of those adapters if you get a chance I pm'd you back in april about them . :2thumbs: Your videos are Awesome :coolgleamA: Keep it up :2thumbs: Thanks
Quote from: redmist on July 28, 2013, 10:26:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD_2qB9XnNs
Very cool video :cheers: , Sounds great too... I like the instant response & the way you put the gauges on top in the video... well done :2thumbs:
Quote from: redmist on July 28, 2013, 08:14:15 PM
Here is my current .MSQ file, as well as a log file from today should you want to play with the logging function.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iuc3ndwwea0yhpg/distro-2013-07-28_18.50.44.msq (https://www.dropbox.com/s/iuc3ndwwea0yhpg/distro-2013-07-28_18.50.44.msq)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4hm01spzjp49u7t/2013-07-28_17.15.48.msl (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4hm01spzjp49u7t/2013-07-28_17.15.48.msl)
I will be posting a fun video here in a little bit. :drool5: :cheers:
Thanks dude!!
Hey Redmist,
Ever think of trying to mill some injector holes into the heads themselves and make a direct injection 440? It would probably be easier with a hemi just because of the shape of the combustion chamber and the location of the spark plug.
Thought about it yes....
I have an Ecoboost, so I have already torn all the sensors out to look at them, and put them back in. haha!!
I know the Megasquirt people are working on DI as we type. : )
Quote from: redmist on August 03, 2013, 12:36:32 AM
Thought about it yes....
I have an Ecoboost, so I have already torn all the sensors out to look at them, and put them back in. haha!!
I know the Megasquirt people are working on DI as we type. : )
Yeah, a friend of mine I was in the Marines with is a mechanic. He was posting pics of a lexus DFI motor and the heads. I thought it was a second spark plug hole at first. That's what gave me the idea. Fuel pressure would have to be stupid high and of course where in the world would you mount the injector. I think it could work with new hemi's, just use the second Spark Plug hole and modify it to fit an injector. Not sure why they didnt do than anyhow.?? You could run like 15:1 compression
Quote from: redmist on July 25, 2013, 05:22:02 PM
Alright..... :icon_smile_big:
So, It looks like we may go ahead and do a small run of these. I am going to see what is clearing the 8-axis, and see if we can slug a few of these out real fast. The guys are thinking we are going to blank them out, send them out for anodizing, and then bring them back in for engraving or something cool like that.
Let me work on this a little, and I will keep you guys updated. :cheers:
. Put me down for a bushing as well, post me a personal when done , aluminium finish fine with me
I need to seriously look into this, I am sick and tired of smelling fuel when I'm driving. I would hope the efi removes that little problem?
It does take all the smell away yes, unless you have a bunch of overlap in your cam, I smell some fuel in the exhaust at idle, and thats it. However!! I have been playing with the "Injector Angle" in the tune, and have found that spraying the fuel on the hot shut valve right before it opens not only helps the idle, but cleans up the smell some. Injector angle is set to fire sooner as RPM Increases.
So much fun stuff to play with. ;)
Cool beans! I'd never do it because sensors and computers are the last thing I want near my Charger's engine (unless you count the Mopar Orange box) but kudos for a tough job well done. Just make sure you take some extra sensors along on your trips. :icon_smile_wink:
Quote from: bull on August 05, 2013, 08:44:37 PM
Cool beans! I'd never do because sensors and computers are the last thing I want near my Charger's engine (unless you count the Mopar Orange box) but kudos for a tough job well done. Just make sure you take some extra sensors along on your trips. :icon_smile_wink:
I already got a bunch of extra's while at the junkyard. Some of it is not needed to run the car, if the MAP sensor goes out, I can just run the engine off of Alpha-N mode. If the CAM sensor goes out, I can just switch it to wasted spark, and wont need the CAM sensor to run. If the TPS, Or Crank sensors go out, well dang... :o Sorta hosed there. Even temp sensors can be omitted and I could still run the car. As long as I have my phone or laptop, I am good to go! Honestly having all these sensors was the drive to do the conversion, all these sensors are easy to find in a junkyard, or in any auto parts store. ;)
Yeah, the ones for adjustment input can be ignored but it's those pesky "the car won't run without it" crank sensors that will burn you. But that's cool you can use easy to find over the counter stuff. Usually they're just picking up on pulses generated by a tone ring so one is pretty much like another. If you can wire it in it will usually work. You'll just have to carry around some spare parts like the rest of us do. And make sure you keep the batteries on your phone and computer well charged. :2thumbs:
Just curious, maybe you mentioned this already but where is your TPS located?
Bull,
It's mounted on the throttle body, in the standard LS location.
One of the guys over at the Idahomotorsports forum mentioned that the TPS is not needed either for Speed-Density, but it does add some features. I guess the Crank is the one to have extra of just in case!!
ETA: The guys over at IMS shared this link with me so I could post it in this build thread. For those looking to do this conversion, here is a good list of Injector part numbers and those specs associated with them. You can do a CNTRL-F to search the page for your part number if you have one!
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm (http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm)
glad to see this one still up and running... glad the trigger wheel worked too :2thumbs:
The bushing for the jeep sensor is an awesome idea.
I'm personally getting out of the old technology - the 6.1L in my Charger is just getting up and running and my 5.7 in my new challenger is a dream... I won't miss replacing points, tuning carbs, and dealing with all the other fun that comes with 440s.
Quote from: redmist on August 06, 2013, 03:31:42 PM
Bull,
It's mounted on the throttle body, in the standard LS location.
One of the guys over at the Idahomotorsports forum mentioned that the TPS is not needed either for Speed-Density, but it does add some features. I guess the Crank is the one to have extra of just in case!!
ETA: The guys over at IMS shared this link with me so I could post it in this build thread. For those looking to do this conversion, here is a good list of Injector part numbers and those specs associated with them. You can do a CNTRL-F to search the page for your part number if you have one!
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm (http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm)
Great Info thanks
Redmist..
Check this out
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/news/gallery-custom-twin-turbo-69-dodge-charger-project/
A little upgrade, and an update!!
So as I am getting into the higher RPM area of my tune, WOW! does this thing pull on the top end! It never felt this way with the carb. After 4000 RPM it frickin goes crazy! I can't wait to see what it does on the track!!
However, we have a problem. And that is Duty Cycle on the injectors I am running. At WOT I am at 95% duty cycle. That's just to high for comfort. Someone posted above that the 2013-2014 Ford GT500 Injectors were now for sale on rockauto, so I order a set of 8 of them. $210 Shipped!!!
Now these injectors are the same EV14 style that most aftermarket companies modify to turn into 1000cc monsters, but these will work just fine for my application in stock form. They are 55lb an hour injectors at 39 PSI.
And they are CHEAP!!!!
Rock Auto has them listed for $24 a piece, this is what you are looking for: MOTORCRAFT Part # CM5216
Picture of the Injector as well as the bag/part number
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LCaRJZhfXfQ/Uifs_rPQIGI/AAAAAAAAAfM/o9QIqzRgz8g/w459-h768-no/IMAG0448.jpg)
There is one hangup to using these injectors in my setup, and that is the length of them. They are a Medium sized lengthwise injectors instead of the current long style I am running. No worries though!! Injector Dynamics has a solution, and that is little hats for the injectors that extend the length. As found here:
http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/index.php/en/products/details/219/362/injector-dynamics/fuel-injector-accessories/14mm-adaptor-top-for-injector-dynamics-injectors.html (http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/index.php/en/products/details/219/362/injector-dynamics/fuel-injector-accessories/14mm-adaptor-top-for-injector-dynamics-injectors.html)
And here is a picture of my new 55lb an hour Bosch style EV14 High Impedence Injectors ready to go for a total cost of around $300!
Not bad!
Plus they look all race carish and stuff.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bys40QTIJZg/Uifs_gnV9EI/AAAAAAAAAfY/E_ERc82JPwY/w1284-h768-no/IMAG0469.jpg)
All I need to do is change my required fuel to reflect the injector change, and my current tune will be workable with these injectors. I plan on tweaking the maps a little though. Basically I will start over now that I have a much better understanding of what I am doing.
Fantastic! Any update on the bushings?
Great work and info. I'm enjoying this read a lot... :2thumbs:
I'm still curious what sort of MPG you can get on a tank with an economy profile...prolly too fun to romp on if now though!
95% duty cycle isnt all that bad. Most cars are like 85-93% anyway. Our buddy runs 100% cycle in his 1,200hp 5.3l turbo mustang on MS3. No issues yet with injectors....
I even run like 94% duty cycle on a turbo 22re on MS2 that we race in the desert with. No issues ever!
:Twocents:
Quote from: Homerr on September 05, 2013, 06:15:14 PM
I'm still curious what sort of MPG you can get on a tank with an economy profile...prolly too fun to romp on if now though!
I've had two tanksful over 23mpg with my 505 stroker, and I have an obsolete Holley commander TBI setup with mechanical distributor. With the full engine control of my Electromotive box (Megasquirt can be functionally equal) I expect to see 25 best and an improved average-we averaged 15.6 or so over 3100 miles on the last power tour.
Guess we better snatch up a set of those injectors before everyone figures out they are the one's to have and the price goes up. :laugh:
Redmist, does the MSIII kit come with instructions on how to assemble? are they easy to follow? Have pictures?
Quote from: grnfsh on September 07, 2013, 06:55:20 AM
Redmist, does the MSIII kit come with instructions on how to assemble? are they easy to follow? Have pictures?
Yes it has pictures, bags are labeled, and it guides you step by step...
Purchase a JimStim 1.5, and a StimX and build those first for practice. You will want/need both of these little devices anyhow, and they are not expensive at all.
Here is the guide I followed to build my MS3X: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/build_manual.html (http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/build_manual.html)
Nothing new on the adapters, we have a few first article parts to push out on the gun side of things, and then we will work on the adapters.
Great thread :cheers: I just got caught up again, thanks for all the great information, I hope you have equally as great success... :2thumbs:
Yes 95% duty cycle is a problem. A buddy ran over 100% and ofcourse went lean and melted the pistons out of his hemi.
Better safe with a bigger injector
I have 83 lb injectors and may have to step up later if a go with a bigger procharger.
EFI is amazing for tuning. Lots to learn.
Sounds like you are having fun and doing well.
toss me in for a pair of adapters...
I'm following your build closely and will be mimicing it (except with MS2, not MS3) on my '67 Charger running a 496" stroker and my Dad's '95 Firebird running a '69 Chevy 427.
What are you putting out for power?
The original engine ran 513hp/542tq on the stand with the carb. We did ZERO tuning on the carb, and hit those numbers. I will get it on a dyno and get some numbers at the wheels when I get it all sorted. That may be next spring though.
Any update on the adapters?
:popcrn: any updates on the output dyno/tuning or improvements over the carb or what ever... :popcrn: oops I saw you said next spring after I already posted this...
No updates on adapters, and the car is parked for the most part till spring time.
I might play with the "Check engine light" function a little over the winter. the MS software can trigger a check engine light if any of your sensors or maps get anywhere out of your defined range. it will also do a sensor check on startup like a modern car does.
The plan is to replace that dumb large "check brakes" red idiot light on the factory dash with a custom "Check system" or something of the likes, that lights up when anything is out of normal.
Looking forward to the summary on this for us old carb guys, the to do list and tuition on how what why and guide from some one that knows what there doing :popcrn:,
I have a 505 cubic inch stroker that I want to sequential inject
Quote from: redmist on October 14, 2013, 11:27:24 PM
No updates on adapters, and the car is parked for the most part till spring time.
I might play with the "Check engine light" function a little over the winter. the MS software can trigger a check engine light if any of your sensors or maps get anywhere out of your defined range. it will also do a sensor check on startup like a modern car does.
The plan is to replace that dumb large "check brakes" red idiot light on the factory dash with a custom "Check system" or something of the likes, that lights up when anything is out of normal.
That's a great idea, I like it. Can't have too much information
Quote from: redmist on October 14, 2013, 11:27:24 PM
The plan is to replace that dumb large "check brakes" red idiot light on the factory dash with a custom "Check system" or something of the likes, that lights up when anything is out of normal.
Ahhhh. I think you could wire the existing brake failure signal to an unused input and then incorporate that input into the Check System logic, or whatever you choose to call it.
Good idea! I'd been pondering where to install the Check Engine light (I was considering an amber LED somewhere in the unused clock pod in my dash) but this is far better.
This is a great read thanks for posting everything you did.
redmist any more updates yet ?? I'd like to see more... any more you can post about what you did or don't like, maybe pros & cons, what not to do... just spit-balling here....
Nothing yet. I did drive the Charger to it's new home (We moved) and even with no tuning on the new injectors, going from the old injectors to the big 60lb an hr required nothing more than changing one number in the software (Required fuel)....
It started right up, and ran just great!
As soon as the weather gets nice, I will be back on the project, and home to get some dyno tuning sessions done.
I still absolutely love the setup. Zero issues so far.
Redmist, you came about as close as anybody ever has IMO to making up an affordable PORT fuel injected 440.
Well played....
Not bad eh???
Honestly I have some nice parts in this setup, with a little more scrounging, and some fabrication, a person could do it real real cheep!
Quote from: redmist on January 30, 2014, 11:56:42 PM
Not bad eh???
Honestly I have some nice parts in this setup, with a little more scrounging, and some fabrication, a person could do it real real cheep!
:2thumbs: Thanks for the updates, good luck I'm looking forward to the spring when you post how great it drives... great thread :Twocents:
Thanks for documenting this project. It's exactly what I wanted to do when I stumbled across your overview video on youtube which led me here. Now to save my pennies and start collecting parts. I really am looking forward to the drivability, more consistent power, and extra mileage. I, like others, will love to hear what you get. I humbly request you to fill the tank this spring and go for a road trip to find out. I also read about creating your own gauges in tuner studio that would show you instant mileage values (probably based on top gear).
:cheers:
When do they go on sale? I'll take one fo sho!
Quote from: 69white hat on February 21, 2014, 04:14:05 AM
:cheers:
When do they go on sale? I'll take one fo sho!
Put me down for one as well. :yesnod:
You guys are Crazy! no way I am building kits... The fun is building it yourself.. right? Right? ;D
I will say, the cam position adapter is currently out of the car. It's being "Inspected" right now. While the car is down, I am going to do the brakes, and upper control arms.
The weather here is starting to get nice, so I am excited to get it back on the road.
My car is also getting some nice upgrades to make it more driver friendly. Mostly just fixes under the dash to get it back to where it should be ( speedo and heater box ), plus some mechanical stuff as well, ( steering box, starter ), but for a guy like me building a kit like that is simply not an option. I don't understand more than half of the jargon you were talking about. That being said, I definitely want efi, maybe just one thats more genereic and out of the box. I'll haver to shop around. That will be NEXT years project maybe. While I can't build my own, I'm sure I could install one with some help.
Nice build. I have a question off topic. What alternator is that? Is it internally regulated, or does it use the stock regulator?
It's the kit that 440source sells, It's a toyota internally regulated model of some sort. 60 Amp. I plan on upgrading that as well.
Folks,
The CPS Adaptors are being made, we have it modeled for production, and will start cutting in about 10 days.
Stay tuned.
:2thumbs: :cheers: :popcrn:
Very cool! Put me down for one.
Awesome build. Exactly what I want to do as far as fuel injection, etc... Put me down for an adapter as well.
Dammit I have to reread everything again, I don't know what the adapters are for. :lol:
I'd still buy the whole kit though. :D
That's impressive! :coolgleamA:
Dino,
It's so you can replace the distributor with a cam position sensor from a Wrangler. Needed only if you're going to go that route.
Quote from: peterro on April 01, 2014, 09:41:01 AM
Dino,
It's so you can replace the distributor with a cam position sensor from a Wrangler. Needed only if you're going to go that route.
Oh that's what that is. Thanks! :2thumbs:
The guys busted out the smart drill press:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Yqf58JLxU1w/UzXtzTPOEcI/AAAAAAAAAyU/_OwNYQHzttQ/w1024-h579-no/IMAG0411.jpg)
Added some machine noise type sounds:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cW8wSRwFP3s/UzXtza23tqI/AAAAAAAAAyk/5nn5P5uxZDs/w1024-h579-no/IMAG0413.jpg)
Done!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s66ZsGyj8UA/UzXtzdwy-2I/AAAAAAAAAyg/8T6hDydUNQg/w1024-h579-no/IMAG0412.jpg)
And first production test part...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-CoeMr6kPUHA/UzX30Arz9EI/AAAAAAAAAzA/1unZMKLoExs/w1007-h875-no/IMAG0416.jpg)
So I have this part fitted in my Charger right now. It now works without having to modify the key on the CPS sensor. However!!!! Now the factory hold down stud is to short to retain it well with the factory hold down piece.
We are either going to manufacture a part that replaces the factory hold down, or figure out another solution to retain the CPS in the adapter, and let the factory hold down continue to work.
That is one gorgeous piece of aluminum. Can't wait to purchase some.
Any plans for a 383 version?
The low deck will be a little more involved. As it stands now, the 440 version works sorta with the stock hold down. the low deck will for sure require a new method of retaining the CPS since it will stick out of the block a little more. We will figure something out though!
very cool piece thanks for sharing, love all the CNC stuff & machinery too, like that "little" Drill Press... a B-Low deck version will be a must... good luck keep up all the great work & updates...
Hey All, I followed this thread over from Moparts awhile back, and joined this forum just so I can
get on the request list for the cam sensor adapter ( One, Please! Thank You!). It will go in my
440 equipped 69 Coronet (hope that's close enough to a Charger for me to stay here!).
Kowalski
The guys here are no strangers at making aluminum look beautiful!
(https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/l/t31.0-8/1553422_702483529772479_999943214_o.jpg)
(https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1473017_661717560515743_1422637608_n.jpg)
That is one beautiful weapon!
Looking good! I was just checking back in to see where we were with bushings. I still want this, so make sure you send me a PM or email when these are available.
me too , count me in for one of those
That adapter looks pretty sweet.
I'm all in now. Just pulled the trigger on the computer and simulator yesterday. I'm putting together my list of questions...
Now to save up for the rest. At least this will get me playing/tuning on the computer.
Yes, master it on the bench with the STIM, and the car part gets easy. :cheers:
I am half tempted to purchase another ECU just to have around as a play toy.
Microsquirt lawnmower? hehe
That'd be cool. I'm also working on blazing the trail for my father in law on his 68 RoadRunner. Doing the bench tuning will allow us to get over the fear factor. After one successful implementation, I'm betting he'll follow.
Quote from: redmist on April 20, 2014, 09:46:36 PM
Yes, master it on the bench with the STIM, and the car part gets easy. :cheers:
I am half tempted to purchase another ECU just to have around as a play toy.
Microsquirt lawnmower? hehe
Check out this MS controlled V8.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EGXo5HwIHk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EGXo5HwIHk)
Quote from: redmist on April 02, 2014, 12:58:53 PM
The low deck will be a little more involved. As it stands now, the 440 version works sorta with the stock hold down. the low deck will for sure require a new method of retaining the CPS since it will stick out of the block a little more. We will figure something out though!
Could you just use this along with your adapter for a 383?
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/rbtobbldiad.html
EDIT: Never mind, I see the problem has nothing to do with what this accomplishes.
I have some MS questions. I have my ECU, ms3x, Jimstim, and Jimstimx assembled and talking to Tuner Studio. I guess that's a good milestone. The documentation for the MS3 could have been better though the jimstim docs were very good. If I do another one, I may take a shot at improving it.
In any case, I'm at the point of bench tuning and I'm trying to find the proper way of configuring the simulators. The first problem is the cam position sensor so I can test full sequential. I found a couple forum references that there needs to be a jumper from the jimstim to the jimstimx but I haven't found the source documentation.
What is the best source for reading about the simulators? Also, is there a good walk-through of Tuner Studio or is this a learn as you use sort of thing? I know I can ask this on the MS forums but this write up is the model I'm patterning my build after. Also, it gives me a chance to ask about the CPS adapter status.
Thanks in advance.
Its been so long since I have used the Stims, the best I could do for you is tell you to look at the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4yudqswCg8 And try to duplicate the jumper locations and dip settings.
The adapters got put on the back burner as work took over the machines. :brickwall: :brickwall:
Sorry guys, With new product roll out, either someone else needs to step up to make these, or we are just going to have to wait longer.
As an added update:
I took the charger to the drag strip and made a couple passes. My best ET was 13.3 At 110MPH :D It was also one full point rich from 4600 to 6000 RPM when I crossed the finish line.
This was with street tires driven to the track and back. MPH says I have a low 12 second ET if I can get it to hook, and with a point rich, I have some improvement on that as well.
Fun stuff!!
Coolest part was making a pass, looking at the log, and dialing back the fueling, and trying again!
Here is a data log of my last run. First shift was at 3316 RPM, Second shift was at 4256RPM, and I crossed the line at 6027RPM with an AFR of 11.6. This was letting the auto shift where it wanted to. I can replay this in real time, and tweak the map on the right side, re-load to car, and try again!!! The tuner guys were real impressed with the technology.
Reading the graph, the yellow line on the top graph is AFR... If you look at this, you can see a spike upwards on the map. This is where I lifted the throttle to try and get the car to hook. The white line is RPM.
All this data is automatically saved to the SD card real time... all the time. :yesnod:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Naw6a8fbugs/U40uw_iMomI/AAAAAAAABEg/Hdp3vAR7ZKM/w1548-h871-no/datalog.jpg)
Oh yeah.....
My car weighed in at 3620 lbs with a full tank of gas, and me not in it on the truck scale at the local truck stop.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Eps0HrljTPM/U4AflO2ZIMI/AAAAAAAAA_s/rMJEU_tTmb0/w768-h480-no/IMG_3527+%25281%2529+%2528Small%2529.JPG)
Looking great - glad to see this project rolling along
Looks awesome! :drool5:
Wow! That is awesome! Please put me in for one of the CPS bushings if you ever get that off the ground. Thank you. I just finished converting my daughters 65 stang to the 5.0 EFI and I am very impressed with the reliability and performance. My 68 Charger was going to get a modern 5.7 or 6.1 but I do believe this route you have taken is much more fun. Thanks for sharing.
Rick
Glad you've got it out and showing off.
Any news on CPS adapters?
Does anyone have a 3D printer? Could probably reproduce the adapters pretty quickly with one. Just a thought
I think I need to source the adapter project to someone else. Life is just full right now. In the last six months, I have put my mom in the ground, bought a foreclosed home, sold existing home, had a baby, started ISO certification at work, and launched a product line...
I am spent folks.
I don't know if ARengineering would be able to do it?
But right now is not a good time for me! I just need.... More time, haha :cheers:
Sorry for the loss of your mom. Any chance of getting the specs on the adapter sometime?
Quote from: grnfsh on June 24, 2014, 07:53:49 PM
Does anyone have a 3D printer? Could probably reproduce the adapters pretty quickly with one. Just a thought
I do, and I've had a blast printing parts for automotive use. I'm not sure it would be the ideal tool for this situation, but if the part were printed in a suitable material, probably a higher grade nylon, it might work. The two things to keep in mind are operating temperature and chemical resistance, so there's probably a suitable filament out there.
That being said, I'd probably sooner turn one on the lathe out of a lump of aluminum.
Hi Redmist, sorry to hear about your mom and the general busy-ness of life catching up with you.
I've just about got your adapter plagiarized, and I had one question: Have you experienced any oil seeping between the adapter and the CPS, and did you make provisions for any sort of seal or o-ring in this area? In one of your photos, I think I see something black (possibly an o-ring) between the adapter and the horizontal flange of the CPS. I don't think you addressed this in any of your posts.
Take care,
Jim
My original one had an O-ring designed in it... However I never installed it.
The second one I made also was without O-ring. I have yet to see any oil running up, our, or around the adapter. Even after blasting the car down the track a few times, it's nice and dry!
Redmist, I know a few guys with machine shops that could probably take on the job. I've hesitated to ask them to try and make one out of respect for you. if you don't mind I'm going to see if they can make the adapter as well. One is a mopar guy so if I show him a pic he may be able to make one. Do you have specs written down?
Quote from: nihil on June 28, 2014, 02:57:49 PM
Quote from: grnfsh on June 24, 2014, 07:53:49 PM
Does anyone have a 3D printer? Could probably reproduce the adapters pretty quickly with one. Just a thought
I do, and I've had a blast printing parts for automotive use. I'm not sure it would be the ideal tool for this situation, but if the part were printed in a suitable material, probably a higher grade nylon, it might work. The two things to keep in mind are operating temperature and chemical resistance, so there's probably a suitable filament out there.
That being said, I'd probably sooner turn one on the lathe out of a lump of aluminum.
I kind of figured a machined unit out of Aluminum would be better, was just an idea.
Anyone can make one, I am not tied to the idea in any way... Heck if people start building them, perhaps other ideas will form!
I can't give specs for it, as it is under company policy.
But yes, build away folks!
Quote from: redmist on June 29, 2014, 08:17:34 PM
Anyone can make one, I am not tied to the idea in any way... Heck if people start building them, perhaps other ideas will form!
I can't give specs for it, as it is under company policy.
But yes, build away folks!
Understood. thanks dude!
Quote from: grnfsh on June 29, 2014, 09:19:18 PM
Quote from: redmist on June 29, 2014, 08:17:34 PM
Anyone can make one, I am not tied to the idea in any way... Heck if people start building them, perhaps other ideas will form!
I can't give specs for it, as it is under company policy.
But yes, build away folks!
Understood. thanks dude!
GRNFSH, I'll be happy to share the specs of the one I came up with on my own from looking at Redmist's unit... if he's cool with it, that is.
Mine has not yet been put into a running engine, but it has been in two different spare 440 short blocks in my shop.
sounds good, we'll get it worked out
Have at it kids!
Like I said, I would rather someone who has the time to make this happen, make it happen! I am excited that people are so interested in it, and it worked out so well. That's enough for me. :2thumbs:
:popcrn:
I ordered my MS3 ECU yesterday. Time to get moving on this.
Get some!!!
Hey redmist, about the wiring for the Jeep CPS. Is this what you came up with?
Looking into the connector: ( 1 2 3 )
Pin 1, signal output (Tan/Yellow wire)
Pin 2, ground (Black/Light blue wire)
Pin 3, +5v supply (Orange wire)
Here ya go: :cheers:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GmcQPQOHdY4/VEhWhNfRDCI/AAAAAAAABc8/qmUpcAydOsk/w965-h253-no/CPSpinout.png)
SWEEET
Hey you guys see this from Mallory? It has a crank and cam sensor. It would eliminate the need to make the CPS adapter too. It is however a lot more expensive and they don't make it for Mopars yet.
http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/600/650/650-77100D.gif
I don't think it has enough points to successfully run an MS Unit. 36-1 would be the smallest I would use. That distributor would replace the "Flying Magnet" 8 point systems found for the MSD Ignitions. and the likes.
Hell would freeze over before they offered an RB/B version as well, ha!
Quote from: redmist on October 24, 2014, 07:37:44 PM
I don't think it has enough points to successfully run an MS Unit. 36-1 would be the smallest I would use. That distributor would replace the "Flying Magnet" 8 point systems found for the MSD Ignitions. and the likes.
Hell would freeze over before they offered an RB/B version as well, ha!
Yeah, I know, even though a mopar distributor would be one of the easiest to do it on. Speaking of that. Would the MSD Flying magnet work with the MS?
It should work, from:
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/using_megasquirt_with_msd_distributors.htm
MSD Flying Magnet crank triggers also work in the same way as their magnetic pickup distributors as far as the MegaSquirt is concerned.
Seems it would be better just to run a 36-1 wheel or something of the sort than the MSD Crank trigger. Not to mention the price of those things. I suppose you get the ease of installation and not having to worry about dialing it in correctly
So I'm still stuck on the trigger wheel questions. Maybe i'm not processing information correctly.
My concern is getting a 36-1 wheel, cutting the inside of it correctly so it fits over the pulley without too much gap so it can be welded and the welding it in the correct position.
1. What did you guys use to cut the inside of the trigger wheel so it fits over the pulley? Hole saw?
2. How did you orient the #1 tooth to the pulley, how did you know where to put it?
3. How deep did you weld it on the pulley hat and how did you keep it straight? Did you make a jig of some sort?
Go to page 2 of this thread, and check out how I had mine setup in relation to tooth count, and TDC.
I got my wheel from RollingThunder here on the board, but my plan was to cut the inside out with a lathe. Take a skim pass on the outside of the pulley to make a small shoulder, press the wheel on, and tack weld.
RollingThunder had already done basically exactly that, so i used the one he was going to toss!
Orientation isn't all that important as you will be able to change it in the software, but seting it up as I did on page 2 is correct way to do it.
I didnt think about turning it down to make a "shoulder" thats a great idea.
I need to get a lathe...:(
RedMist
I'm just about through with assembly of the MS3, I'm looking at your picture here. I see some jumper wires (Yellow) but can seem to find instructions for that. Can you help me out here? What are they for and what do you have them connected too?
Quote from: redmist on February 24, 2013, 11:55:35 PM
ECU Finished up
The yellow wires are jumpers for the Idle Air Control valve stepper motor.
Something to take note about the Megasquirt system. You will notice the SD card slot. This is a logging card that can be removed and taken to a computer to view whatever log you have setup in the tuning. This was the ultimate feature that sold me on Megasquirt! Also the USB tuning function, and the "AutoTune" that is found in Tuner Studio.
I got the board tested, and hooked up to tuner studio. So far so good!!! if anyone is on the fence about this, the documentation is so good, that you should not hesitate. This system destroys the other offerings on the market at a much smaller cost!
I still need to install the "X" expansion that will give me 8 channels of spark control. It's a simple ad on board.
Here is a basic list of what is included on what I have built here as standard:
VE and ignition tables are now both 16 x 16
0.1% steps on VE table, 0.1 degree steps on ignition table
Socket for an onboard SD card - no laptop required for data logging (SD Card not included)
Built in USB port
GM stepper IAC control
Closed loop idle and mixture control
CANBus communications for interface with GPIO Board, IO Extender, or other devices
Staged injection
Native support for many different OEM trigger patterns
8 Sequential fuel injection outputs. Each can drive a high impedance injector, and unused injection outputs can be put to other purposes.
8 Logic level 5 volt ignition outputs. Works with many types of ignition modules and coils, including LSx coils and our IGN-1As. Requires external module or coils with internal ignitors.
6 Medium current outputs. Use for 2 stage progressive nitrous, boost control, tach output, 3 wire idle speed control, general purpose PWM or relay control, or many other potential applications.
3 Analog inputs. Use for an external MAP sensor, second O2 sensor, fuel pressure, accelerometer, or general data logging.
4 Switch inputs. Can be used to start data logging, arm a nitrous system, switch tables, launch control, VSS input (with external conditioner), and more.
1 Cam sensor input. Can be used with VR, Hall, or optical sensors.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eiECLz4NCFI/UWR9G9E0YaI/AAAAAAAAAHA/pO585XVr7WI/s912/efi7.jpg)
And a picture of the ECU operating off of the "STIM" to check function in Tuner Studio:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eMlXahdirfc/UWR67VqCcfI/AAAAAAAAAEM/7GKqyAu4r7U/s912/ef18.jpg)
Those jumpers are for your idle valve configuration. it can be configured on the board depending on how you plan to do idle control. I used a GM style IACV so the jumpers were setup to accommodate that.
Refer to step 26 in the ms assembly instructions here: http://msextra.com/doc/ms3/build_manual.html (http://msextra.com/doc/ms3/build_manual.html)
26) Idle valves:
The MS3 card has support for a 4 wire stepper idle valve built-in, just requiring 5 jumpers on the mainboard.
When using the MS3X card in addition it is suggested that you install these jumper wires and use the standard 'FIDLE' components.
If using 2 wire PWM idle without the MS3X card, you will need to upgrade the 'FIDLE' circuit on the V3.0 board. Note, the PWM Idle Valve circuit upgrade can also be used to drive other solenoids such as boost control.
i)Stepper Idle Valve: If using a 4 wired idle valve (or using as two spare outputs) then solder wires from:
a) JS0 to IAC1A
b) JS1 to IAC1B
c) JS2 to IAC2A
d) JS3 to IAC2B
e) Solder components Q4, Q20, R39 and D8 in place. Note, this gives you a programmable output that can drive a relay e.g. cooling fan on FIdle (Pin 30 of the db37)
ok I must be "Special" because I cannot find
a) JS0 to IAC1A
b) JS1 to IAC1B
c) JS2 to IAC2A
d) JS3 to IAC2B
on my board.. can you point me in the right direction?
Quote from: redmist on November 02, 2014, 09:58:03 PM
Those jumpers are for your idle valve configuration. it can be configured on the board depending on how you plan to do idle control. I used a GM style IACV so the jumpers were setup to accommodate that.
Refer to step 26 in the ms assembly instructions here: http://msextra.com/doc/ms3/build_manual.html (http://msextra.com/doc/ms3/build_manual.html)
26) Idle valves:
The MS3 card has support for a 4 wire stepper idle valve built-in, just requiring 5 jumpers on the mainboard.
When using the MS3X card in addition it is suggested that you install these jumper wires and use the standard 'FIDLE' components.
If using 2 wire PWM idle without the MS3X card, you will need to upgrade the 'FIDLE' circuit on the V3.0 board. Note, the PWM Idle Valve circuit upgrade can also be used to drive other solenoids such as boost control.
i)Stepper Idle Valve: If using a 4 wired idle valve (or using as two spare outputs) then solder wires from:
a) JS0 to IAC1A
b) JS1 to IAC1B
c) JS2 to IAC2A
d) JS3 to IAC2B
e) Solder components Q4, Q20, R39 and D8 in place. Note, this gives you a programmable output that can drive a relay e.g. cooling fan on FIdle (Pin 30 of the db37)
OHHHHH i found it.. flip the thing over duh!
Quote from: grnfsh on November 03, 2014, 08:03:30 PM
ok I must be "Special" because I cannot find
a) JS0 to IAC1A
b) JS1 to IAC1B
c) JS2 to IAC2A
d) JS3 to IAC2B
on my board.. can you point me in the right direction?
Quote from: redmist on November 02, 2014, 09:58:03 PM
Those jumpers are for your idle valve configuration. it can be configured on the board depending on how you plan to do idle control. I used a GM style IACV so the jumpers were setup to accommodate that.
Refer to step 26 in the ms assembly instructions here: http://msextra.com/doc/ms3/build_manual.html (http://msextra.com/doc/ms3/build_manual.html)
26) Idle valves:
The MS3 card has support for a 4 wire stepper idle valve built-in, just requiring 5 jumpers on the mainboard.
When using the MS3X card in addition it is suggested that you install these jumper wires and use the standard 'FIDLE' components.
If using 2 wire PWM idle without the MS3X card, you will need to upgrade the 'FIDLE' circuit on the V3.0 board. Note, the PWM Idle Valve circuit upgrade can also be used to drive other solenoids such as boost control.
i)Stepper Idle Valve: If using a 4 wired idle valve (or using as two spare outputs) then solder wires from:
a) JS0 to IAC1A
b) JS1 to IAC1B
c) JS2 to IAC2A
d) JS3 to IAC2B
e) Solder components Q4, Q20, R39 and D8 in place. Note, this gives you a programmable output that can drive a relay e.g. cooling fan on FIdle (Pin 30 of the db37)
Hey flip it over!! hehe...
I passed my wires through some holes in the PROTO area of the board to give it a clean look.
another trigger wheel question.
Why do we need to weld it onto the pulley, can a trigger wheel not be bolted/sandwiched between the balance and the pulley? Like one of the "disc" type wheels they sell on DIY?
Yup! That can work also, if you can package it and make it work then that's just fine as well. If you do that, post it up, I would like to see what you come up with!
ok just needed a sanity check. going to give it a go. I have it in my head but ill see if it works.
So after poking around, I'm not sure my idea is as easy as thought. I think it would offset the pulley too much and put stress on the belt because the pulleys wont be lined up any longer. I could shim all the other pulley as well but I'm going to try to weld it onto the pulley first like you all did.
If I even get a chance to try it, I would like to try and machine the teeth right into a dampener. I don't know what it would do to balance though, but that would be real nice!
I've seen pictures of someone doing exactly that. It looked real clean.
Quote from: redmist on November 22, 2014, 07:48:12 PM
If I even get a chance to try it, I would like to try and machine the teeth right into a dampener. I don't know what it would do to balance though, but that would be real nice!
I'm sure you could weight the dampener at the missing tooth to make up for the weight loss and balance it.
Found it, this guy added MS to a Jensen Interceptor w/ a 440:
http://www.bobclevenger.com/Crank-fired%20ignition.html
(http://www.bobclevenger.com/EDIS_VR_Bracket_and_Damper.jpg)
that's awesome
Redmist are you using a knock sensor? if so where did you mount it?
Nope, Not yet.
sounds like you intend to add one. What is your plan for that?
powered up on the Stim for the first time last night. R15 smoked out on me. Guess ill order another one.
Tried to connect and down load firmware to the MS3. No comms to the unit from the computer. I have some trouble shooting to do. any suggestions?
Hi redmist
Ive gone about putting EFI on my motor a little differently. I started with batch firing the injectors and using a MSD digital 6 and MSD crank trigger for ignition. RPM came from the VR sensor in the distributor. This fall I started working on making everything sequential. As I was collecting parts I came across your post where you were using the cam position sensor from the 4.0 Jeep I found one and made the bushing but I'm having trouble getting a signal out of it. I was hoping that you would tell us/me where you picked up the 5volts and the ground and your settings on the MS3X board
Here is the settings on my current tune for trigger wheel arrangement.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wtxc3LoRUlo/VIe71tVtHgI/AAAAAAAABiU/r41kW89QXVk/w754-h669-no/MS.jpg)
I am using cam input on the MS3X board. It has a 5V Supply, 5V Ref, and return to sensor ground. Remember that the Jeep sensor is a Hall affect sensor.
Are you using an MS3X Unit??
If you are using the MSD Crank Trigger with the 8 magnets in it, it will not be enough to support full sequential. You will have to go to a 36-1 wheel on the crank.
Thanks redmist for the quick reply. I did not know there is a 5vref on the MS3X board I had been looking over the DIY info and had not seen that. So on the MS3X card do you have JP7 jumpered did you do anything with either of the 2 pots on the board? I am using a MS3X card one of the steps I had taken from batch firing to sequential is that I put that board in for a second O2 sensor and then I set up the MegaSquirt to handle timing. I had emailed with DIY and they indicated that 4 flying magnets would work with full sequential but Ive come to understand that a 36-1 wheel is more accurate so I am in the process of having one made. So is it your experience that 8 flying magnets wont work at all?
Thanks again redmist I connected the 5v input of the sensor to the 5vref going to throttle position sensor and I am getting a cam signal along with my crank signal now.
Perfect! :cheers:
Just got my new Mopar Action in the mail yesterday.
Well there is my Prototype bushing... I was wondering what they were going to do with it. Did they give me any credit for it?? :nana:
I had to build another one to get my car running again. haha.
Quote from: redmist on December 19, 2014, 11:46:16 PM
Well there is my Prototype bushing... I was wondering what they were going to do with it. Did they give me any credit for it?? :nana:
I had to build another one to get my car running again. haha.
Looks familiar
I sent them an E-mail...
I am kinda bummed out, I wish they would have at least ran the article past me before publishing it. It doesn't mention me or my shop at all. It technically puts me at risk at my job since it's technical data that I distributed (an actual part!) It would have been nice to be kept in the loop. That part they have in the article technically belongs to 2A-Armament.
I was a little disappointed as well. As a subscriber to MA for over two decades, Rick Ehrenberg has given credit in the past when someone else was a major contributor to an article or even an idea. He's a sharp guy for sure and I've used much of the content from his articles on my car, but no one person can come up with EVERY good idea, and I think everyone understands that. Credit where credit is due!
Maybe he'll do the right thing in part two of the article. It'll be the first thing I look for when it hits my mailbox.
Hi Redmist
I need to thank you again. I was struggling with getting my car to start after I put the 36 tooth wheel on. Then finally I looked at your post on page 8 where you posted your .msg I opened that up and noticed that you had all noise cancellation turned off. I did that to mine and it fired right up.
Thanks MechTech
Hi,
I've been working on my implementation of this project. Computer is working on the bench great and I just received my manifold and fuel rails. I've been saving for parts and hope to get the project basically done for this summer.
Today I picked up the CPS/distributor adapter I had made. The sensor I pulled out of a jeep is a bit different than the one in your pictures. The adapter I had made is quite a bit taller than yours. It seems there may a couple different versions of the sensor. We put in a set screw and dimpled the sensor so the original distributor hold down will still work.
Mine has part number 56041020 which is a Cherokee I6 2001-2004. Here's a picture of what I've got. I'm up for having more made if there's interest.
Long time thread stalker here
I wanted to stop by the 2A-Armament booth at SHOT but got sidetracked many times :(
Interesting on the different sensors!!!
Mine came out of a 2003 TJ. (I literally took it out of my 2003 TJ) to make the first adapter.
Sorry I missed you at SHOT, it was crazy! First time exhibiting our product, and what use to be a week of fun, is now a week of a lot of work! I have been sorta trailing on the car, as I have been focused on 2A so much...
No worries though! I will be back at the car in a month or so. :nana:
As far as the noise suppression..... I have never played with it, haha I just learned something from my own thread! Awesome stuff!
Now that I have the motor running full sequential I updated the picture of my motor. When I was running the motor with an 850 carb this car ran 11.30s When I set it up with the pictured intake and batch fuel injection I ran as fast as 10.92. I,m hoping to get into the 10.80 with the full sequential.
Quote from: redmist on January 26, 2015, 09:49:13 PM
Interesting on the different sensors!!!
Mine came out of a 2003 TJ. (I literally took it out of my 2003 TJ) to make the first adapter.
Sorry I missed you at SHOT, it was crazy! First time exhibiting our product, and what use to be a week of fun, is now a week of a lot of work! I have been sorta trailing on the car, as I have been focused on 2A so much...
No worries though! I will be back at the car in a month or so. :nana:
As far as the noise suppression..... I have never played with it, haha I just learned something from my own thread! Awesome stuff!
Do you guys need a CAD drafter/Cerakoter/Gunsmith? :icon_smile_big: :rofl:
Not yet... Nope! hehe
This was posted over on Cuda-Challenger
"Just a heads up, Jerry at Superior Design Concepts (Jerry on moparts, jerry@sdconcepts.com, http://www.sdconcepts.com) is making the Jeep CPS adapters for LA, B, and RB engines. He quoted me $35 + shipping for the B version. The other adapters should have similar pricing."
So I ordered up a B and RB adapter
Hey Redmist - good work on the R&D
Sorry I missed you at Shot show... the USAF had determined my presence was needed in the sandbox instead. :shruggy:
I'll find you at the next one.
Also - kick ass job on the EDIS sensor mount - way better than what I had :rofl:
I've been trying to reply to this thread, lets see if this works. I'm trying to post pics of the adapters so everyone can see them. this is for the RB, we also make them for small block and the b engine blocks as well. price is $35.00 plus shipping. these have been hot this week I've got some left.
They look good guys, You need to get a point of sales setup on a web page someplace.
Click
Add to cart
Done!
I can't wait to get mine in and start my build!
Quote from: sdconcepts on February 02, 2015, 06:18:02 PM
I've been trying to reply to this thread, lets see if this works. I'm trying to post pics of the adapters so everyone can see them. this is for the RB, we also make them for small block and the b engine blocks as well. price is $35.00 plus shipping. these have been hot this week I've got some left.
Is it true you guys are working on a crank trigger setup too?
Weird I never received a notification of a thread update after my previous message. Finally got it today.
In any case, a crank trigger wheel would be great. I also found the oddity with my part. The distributor I used as a pattern was for a 383/400 and not for my 440. It'll work perfectly in my father-in-law's Road Runner though.
I need to call again to make my order. I haven't gotten a call back yet from my first message.
Hi Peterro
I'm working on a crank trigger wheel and sensor bracket I have rough versions on my motor they seem to be working OK but i have not taken it to 6500 yet. Hopefully the parts will be available on Ross Machine Racing.com soon. I'm using their throttle body and fuel rails.
Very cool. Is that intended to be sandwiched between the pulley and the balancer or ?? I'm thinking about belt alignment.
Also another question to redmist. What O2 sensor type/style did you use? I may have missed it in the original conversation.
Thanks.
I ended up using the 02 sensor that came with my AEM Wideband. It's a Bosch 4 were of some sort!
Oh,
I have an update to the system!!!!
I have now successfully made a "Check engine light" through the MS3X and have a lite on my dash. I can have it illuminate full, or flash codes. I have also switched my fan control from the standalone unit to the MS3X. I can now make my fan run for a set amount of time after shut down, as well as activate it based on parameters within the MS3X.
Hi Peterro
this part is unfinished it's 3/16" thick the finished part will have the missing tooth and a 1/16" undercut where the pulley mounts. The undercuts purpose is to allow both trigger wheel and pulley to pilot on the dampener so it will offset the pulley 1/8"
I didn't know it could do that redmist, that sounds like another fun project. It's amazing all of the different things this MS3 controller will do. A couple of other projects on my list are fuel & Oil pressure so that I can datalog them while doing 1/4 mile runs. As far as the O2 sensor I've been using the Innovate LC-2 they can be found on EBay for around $160 and are pretty easy to wire up.
Mechtech,
I used the Inj1 output for a CEL light. It's found under the Canbus/testmodes menu. Here is a screen shot of what it looks like. These are not my settings however, I just selected some for the picture.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VKWiipzcA-M/VNrSHrySVsI/AAAAAAAABmY/I4NZ6fKOH-U/w622-h575-no/cel1.jpg)
Thanks for the update Redmist.
That CEL config is cool. There's still a lot I have to learn in that software.
For the O2 sensor, would any GM unit be a good solution? I really like the wrecking yard prices to keep my budget low for now. Likely the donor isn't in the yard because of a failed sensor.
I'm prepping all my parts for when my shop becomes free of theater sets in the next month. I'll have a few weeks before the sets from the next show arrive to work on the car. I'm making a number of large orders today. Should be Christmas again soon.
Hi peterro
I'm not an expert on O2 sensors. I do know the Innovate model has a controller that connect es to it. What that does I'm not sure but I think it controls the heating element in the O2 sensor. I do know from experience how important the O2 sensor is to troubleshooting various conditions and having the gage that comes with the O2 sensor right in your face is also very helpfull. One of the conditions that you will likely experience is when you pull away and it bogs you'll be able to look at the gage and see that it just leaned out. This is one of the first things I put on my car while going down the EFI road. I could see what the carburetor was doing an how much gas is being wasted
After doing some reading, I think I'll go hunting for some heated sensors off of some GM product.
On another note, this may be a dumb question but oh well. I got a set of injectors from a 5.7L Hemi Durango. They're the proper flow rating for what I need but What I haven't been seen is that if these will fit properly into my manifold/fuel rails. I have the same Edelbrock Pro Flow manifold as redmist and mechtech. Are there diameter differences or reasons they wouldn't work? Are most injectors physically interchangeable (aside from flow needs)?
Packages are starting to arrive. I love getting good stuff in the mail.
Thanks
Hi Man !
Love your build ! I send you a private message with some questions ;) Don't know if you received it correctly ? :yesnod:
As far as I know the differences are in the height of the injectors the connector type and fuel rates. I'm looking forward to seeing your build.
Sweet!. Yeah, I'll post some pictures when I start working on it even though it's not a Charger :icon_smile_big:. A bunch of goodies showed up this last week. Fuel regulator, pump, throttle body, a bunch of fittings, wiring, relay board etc.
I currently have a ton of sets in my shop for my kids theater production that will be moving out at the beginning of March. Then I'll pull it out to put the O2 bungs in the exhaust and start working before the next round of sets shows up for spring. I'll see how much I can get done before then.
On your fuel sender, I saw what you intended to to, but I was wondering how you disconnected/reconnected the sender wire through your new custom piece. I have a spare sender and it looks like the wire is sort of riveted through and is a one-time install?
Thanks again for the R&D.
Quote from: peterro on February 10, 2015, 10:33:16 AM
Very cool. Is that intended to be sandwiched between the pulley and the balancer or ?? I'm thinking about belt alignment.
Also another question to redmist. What O2 sensor type/style did you use? I may have missed it in the original conversation.
Thanks.
Peterro, Belt alignment was my concern as well. I was thinking of sandwiching the trigger wheel then thought it would cause more problems than it would be worth and reverted back to the weld on solution. I'm all ears if there is a better way.
Quote from: sdconcepts on February 02, 2015, 06:18:02 PM
I've been trying to reply to this thread, lets see if this works. I'm trying to post pics of the adapters so everyone can see them. this is for the RB, we also make them for small block and the b engine blocks as well. price is $35.00 plus shipping. these have been hot this week I've got some left.
that's a nice looking piece, I like how you solved the hold down problem.
Does anyone have an extra pig tale end for the Jeep CPS? Or have a part number where I can buy one from a parts store. I have the CPS itself that I bought new from Rockauto but can't seem to find the pig tale/other end clip.
Standard Motor Parts S2099, Airtex 1P1715
Quote from: shawge on March 09, 2015, 10:11:05 AM
Standard Motor Parts S2099, Airtex 1P1715
THANKS!!!!
Hey redmist,
My question may have been missed so I'll ask again. On your fuel sender, I saw what you intended to to, but I was wondering how you disconnected/reconnected the sender wire through your new custom piece. I have a spare sender and it looks like the wire is sort of riveted through and is a one-time install?
Also, I've been looking for a generic bulkhead electrical connector that wouldn't leak. Anyone have a source?
Thanks again.
Question about wire harnesses.
When using MS3X and the Relay panel. Ill need 3 wire harnesses. One for the MS3X, one to go from the MS3 to the relay, and then one coming out of the relay?
Is that correct?
You are correct...
However I would skip the relay board and build your own. It will be a much better product in my mind. I ditched my relay board and just used my own relays. Everything else was hard wired. I feel it's a much more robust setup.
Quote from: redmist on March 16, 2015, 10:56:51 AM
You are correct...
However I would skip the relay board and build your own. It will be a much better product in my mind. I ditched my relay board and just used my own relays. Everything else was hard wired. I feel it's a much more robust setup.
Cool thanks for the advice. That'll save a few bucks as well.
Hi all
I used this relay board from Summit Racing. Its easy to wire, the instructions that come with it says the ground wire connects to the blue terminal strip which works fine for the fuel pump because the wire for the fuel pump from the MS3 is pulled to ground. If you want to use one relay to run a cooling fan just run the ground wire through the temp switch and then to the blue terminal strip on the relay board.
Summit Racing Part Number: ARC-1440
I like that solution MechTech!
Here is how my panel ended up looking.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DcL_IAEW6pc/VFGaynmzqoI/AAAAAAAABeE/CfH-D7Lg31k/w728-h412-no/IMAG0302.jpg)
I fired the car yesterday with the new wiring. I rewired the entire car, and installed new gauges, Aeromotive Phantom fuel system, Ron Francis fuse panel and wiring kit. It fired right up, and sounds better than I remember. My voltage is much more rock steady now at 14.5 v.
I also put the battery in the trunk.
Here is a short video of the car with it's new wires running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiuyqoPjWWU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiuyqoPjWWU)
redmist
That dash is beautiful and so is the relay fuse panel. That Charger sounds sweet what cam are you running?
Quote from: MechTech on March 18, 2015, 06:45:03 PM
redmist
That dash is beautiful and so is the relay fuse panel. That Charger sounds sweet what cam are you running?
Thank you!!!
Camshaft is a Comp XS282S Solid
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=21-232-4&Category_Code=WDGCAMmFTXE (http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=21-232-4&Category_Code=WDGCAMmFTXE)
Very clean on the wiring.
Redmist,
Damn dude you've been busy! looks great!
redmist
I watched your video and saw that you were idling at the same rpm I do and the lope sounded similar and I thought you must be running a cam similar to mine. I run a solid lift Racer Brown cam with .520 lift
I think that cam is dang close to mine! I get compliments on the sound everywhere I go....
Nobody tries to race me at lights either. :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: redmist on March 18, 2015, 05:21:57 PM
I like that solution MechTech!
Here is how my panel ended up looking.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DcL_IAEW6pc/VFGaynmzqoI/AAAAAAAABeE/CfH-D7Lg31k/w728-h412-no/IMAG0302.jpg)
I fired the car yesterday with the new wiring. I rewired the entire car, and installed new gauges, Aeromotive Phantom fuel system, Ron Francis fuse panel and wiring kit. It fired right up, and sounds better than I remember. My voltage is much more rock steady now at 14.5 v.
I also put the battery in the trunk.
Here is a short video of the car with it's new wires running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiuyqoPjWWU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiuyqoPjWWU)
Looks and sounds awesome redmist! :drool5:
Do you have any photos of the aeromotive phantom system installed. Did you modify the tank so the inlet/outlets clear the floor or just use the foam spacers? I've been wanting to use this setup on my 69 but not sure how I want to run the lines.
I was going to cut and weld a drop in the tank, but before I did that, I figured I would try to hammer a corner down on top of the tank... :rofl:
IT WORKED!
I just slowly hammered a corner down flat, and installed the pump.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pKxSwJbITeA/VQ46DWrohjI/AAAAAAAABrU/Q-aC3A-FUPY/w750-h424-no/IMAG0652.jpg)
Not bad! I was thinking cut and drop it down an inch or two but that looks way easier. I've been worried about how close the tank straps would come to the return line but it looks like it would clear it no problem.
How do you like it quality and performance wise? Was the install as easy as they show on the videos they put out? Also how did you run the fuel lines? I'm not sure if I want to keep the steel lines or go with braided PTFE hose?
Install was easy yes... I will be honest, I worked that corner for a long time! It may have been easier to cut and weld. I figured if it didn't work out, I will just cut and weld it out! :smilielol:
So far it's performing great!
dang,
do you know how many times i have printed off this thread to re read it over to learn from you , and you keep adding to it , re print :lol:
nah all good keep posting , accumilating the parts for my future up grade on next engine ? :2thumbs:
:bow: clever stuff , awesome work going on :2thumbs: :cheers: :coolgleamA:
Hi All
I'm having a couple of these trigger wheels made. They are designed to go behind the pulley. They are 3/16 thick with a 1/16 undercut which allows both the wheel and pulley to pilot on the front of the damper. If anyone is seriously interested let me know
Cool, so that makes a 1/8" offset for the belts? How much will they be?
Hi Peterro that's right it should only be 1/8" offset. I apologize for being vague about the price. It cost me $43 to have 1 made then I have to do some machine work to it. I am trying to see what the interest will be, the more I have made at a time the lower the price. Right now it looks like $65 plus shipping. I don't have one on hand at the moment.
Thanks. Sounds like the cam sensor/distributor adapter I had made for the same reason. The first one was $125 but they said if I had 50 made they would be around $10. I ended up going with the shop that's now making them for $35.
I was about to pre-assemble the manifold last night and found that the mounting holes for the TB don't match the manifold. The dimension between the top two bolts and the bottom two bolts are different on the manifold but the same on the TB. Not sure which is correct. I've ontacted the TB seller and will contact Edelbrock on Monday. Just more frustration.
Quote from: MechTech on March 25, 2015, 10:16:32 PM
Hi All
I'm having a couple of these trigger wheels made. They are designed to go behind the pulley. They are 3/16 thick with a 1/16 undercut which allows both the wheel and pulley to pilot on the front of the damper. If anyone is seriously interested let me know
Looks cool, I am trying to get a few options worked out but If they don't work out ill definitely be interested.
Ok since we are talking wiring has anyone considered the Infinity box? http://infinitybox.com/products/ (they used to call themselves ISIS but most likely changed their name for obvious reasons)
I looked into using their equipment, which is very nice and user friendly, however it is very pricey.
I found some electronics manufactures that would sell universal CAN bus modules that were programmable with open source software. It would require some electronic knowledge to make them function properly.
Another option is Arduino or Raspberry Pi, these are open source controllers. There are several forums devoted to these devices and I believe I have seen some automotive usage.
You're right it looks great but pricey. I'm not 100% positive I know what all it does either. does the infinity stuff replace your wire harness all together?
The purpose of the ISIS system is to replace your conventional chassis/body electrical system with the ISIS system. It allows the electrical system to work similar to a modern vehicle where switches/inputs are not carrying large amounts of current but instead just signals that are processed by the module and the module controls the output.
With the ISIS system you can have delay headlamps, retained accy power, remote start and whatever you desire for electrical control.
This system is not designed for engine management. You can interface the engine management system with the ISIS system such as fuel pump control.
Norm
I just talked with Edelbrock and they said that the different measurements (left-right) on the top and bottom of the TB mount holes are by design and made to work with THIER TB. Is that the case on the others who have used this manifold? Did I purchase the wrong (cheap ebay) TB? I would have thought that there was a standard bolt pattern.
Thanks
Hi peterro
My car is being mini tubbed right now so I cant check the measurements. I don't recall an issue with that, my TB came from Ross Machine Racing.
Yeah I realize that, but we were on topic of Redmist rewiring his entire car. Which is why I brought up the ISIS
Quote from: Stormin on March 30, 2015, 09:39:54 AM
The purpose of the ISIS system is to replace your conventional chassis/body electrical system with the ISIS system. It allows the electrical system to work similar to a modern vehicle where switches/inputs are not carrying large amounts of current but instead just signals that are processed by the module and the module controls the output.
With the ISIS system you can have delay headlamps, retained accy power, remote start and whatever you desire for electrical control.
This system is not designed for engine management. You can interface the engine management system with the ISIS system such as fuel pump control.
Norm
Quote from: MechTech on March 30, 2015, 06:09:33 PM
Hi peterro
My car is being mini tubbed right now so I cant check the measurements. I don't recall an issue with that, my TB came from Ross Machine Racing.
Redmist used an Ebay TB so it you should be able to work it out.
Quote from: grnfsh on March 30, 2015, 07:56:45 PM
Quote from: MechTech on March 30, 2015, 06:09:33 PM
Hi peterro
My car is being mini tubbed right now so I cant check the measurements. I don't recall an issue with that, my TB came from Ross Machine Racing.
Redmist used an Ebay TB so it you should be able to work it out.
Yup... I turned the E-bay holes into ovals. Worked great. Made my own gasket.
Thanks. I was pretty surprised to find that Edelbrock made their manifold proprietary. Time to break out the drill.
Mechtech, I'd be in for one of those crank trigger wheels.
Hi igozumn
I had already placed the order for 2, I should be able to increase the order. Originally they said they would be done on the 18th then I have a little work to do on them.
Quote from: MechTech on April 02, 2015, 05:32:33 PM
Hi igozumn
I had already placed the order for 2, I should be able to increase the order. Originally they said they would be done on the 18th then I have a little work to do on them.
question on those trigger wheels.
Do they come with a sensor mount? that's my biggest hurdle right now.
SD concepts is working on a sensor bracket.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1742944/new-product-mopar-cps-bushing-for-rb-b-and-sbm.html#Post1742944
Hi grnfsh
Ross Machine Racing is working on one it will match the trigger wheel I have. Its designed to use this Hall sensor on diyautotune. I'll keep you posted
sweet!
Stupid plumbing question here. Fuel rails are 8an o-ring style? Also, did you use a male 8an o-ring/ 3/8 NPT male-male adapter for the fuel regulator? If so, where did you find one?
I also got my new valve covers to mount the coil brackets and see that the filler holes aren't as close to the end as yours so the stock coil bracket won't fit on the rest of the cover. I guess I'll have to come up with something a bit more custom.
Quote from: peterro on April 12, 2015, 04:54:52 PM
Stupid plumbing question here. Fuel rails are 8an o-ring style? Also, did you use a male 8an o-ring/ 3/8 NPT male-male adapter for the fuel regulator? If so, where did you find one?
I also got my new valve covers to mount the coil brackets and see that the filler holes aren't as close to the end as yours so the stock coil bracket won't fit on the rest of the cover. I guess I'll have to come up with something a bit more custom.
I was thinking of bolting the coils onto the valve covers directly. My only problem was how to bolt them down since you dont want to put a nut under the valve cover and risk it coming lose and falling into your rockers and valve train. My thought was to weld a reinforcement strip of aluminum on the underside of the valve cover and drill and tap threaded holes to screw down the coils.
I made a bracket out of aluminum to hold the coils and I used 2 spacers approx 3" tall on each side that sit on the valve cover where the hold down bolts go and found some 4" long bolts to hold it all together it seems to be plenty stiff. The gaskets that I used are made of silicone and are reuseable.
Quote from: MechTech on April 08, 2015, 06:15:14 PM
Hi grnfsh
Ross Machine Racing is working on one it will match the trigger wheel I have. Its designed to use this Hall sensor on diyautotune. I'll keep you posted
MechTech any update on this?
Quote from: MechTech on April 13, 2015, 07:01:16 PM
I made a bracket out of aluminum to hold the coils and I used 2 spacers approx 3" tall on each side that sit on the valve cover where the hold down bolts go and found some 4" long bolts to hold it all together it seems to be plenty stiff. The gaskets that I used are made of silicone and are reuseable.
Great idea with the spacers! I'm stealing this.
Redmist,
Some questions about your fuel supply and return lines. IIRC, you used PTFE lines from Frozen Boost. What size, AN-6? How did you route the lines? Did you follow the old hard line path or did you blaze a new one?
Thanks!
They are -8 lines. I blazed a new path. Ran them under the passenger floor board, about a foot off the rocker seam. My sub frame connectors provide protection for them from impact. I went up the passenger side of the firewall, against the inner fender and to the regulator on the rail.
Hi grnfsh
I was at that shop last Thursday and he had started a cad drawing. I don't know how long it will be till we have one off the machine. If your looking for it sooner than later I can make one for you that's a little rough it will be similar to whats on my motor now. I do have a wheel done. I've attached a picture
That is a nice looking piece of metal.
PM Sent
You guys are amazing....This whole thing looks scary to me, but I'd love to be injected!!
I'm going to be running a MS3 on my engine build for my 64 Polara... Should be pretty fun - It's going to be a 440ci build - I'll be running remote coil packs and the cam sensor - onlu difference is I'll be planning on making my own serpentine accessory drive that will incorporate the crank trigger wheel as well as the 3" pulleys....
:cheers: :cheers:
Granted this can't happen for a minute - I am accumulating the blower and parts little by little while I'm here over in the sand box.
Since the stock GM coil bracket was too big for my valve covers, I designed a compressed version. The filler/breather holes are more near the mounting indents on the top/bottom of the covers as opposed to the end on redmist's. I'm getting a quote from a friend who can get them cut out for me. Here's what they look like. I did a full size print and the coils match perfectly to the mounting holes.
Hi peterro
How does it mount? It looks like the coils point at an angle (not perpendicular to the valve cover) on your drawing. Do I see that right? If so will they point the same direction on both sides of the motor?
Yes, that's correct. It unfortunate that they'll point forward on one side and back on the other. The issue is that the coil mounting holes are ~1/3" different, as in uneven from left to right. I needed to compress them into the smallest footprint I could and angling them the other direction becomes too steep of an angle. This way, the mounts of the two adjacent coils overlap on the same line as opposed to original where they're more next to each other. I've attached a photo of the coils sitting on the full scale print of the bracket.
So originally I went with the same basic angle that the stock bracket had but a bit more pronounced. After posting, I started thinking a big more and went out and looked at the coils and I believe It's the wrong solution. I'll rework the bracket and I'm pretty sure it'll be a bit smaller than the one above. Thanks for asking, it'll be better than before.
Here's the redesigned version...
Nice job on the bracket!
Has anybody put them somewhere other than on top of the valve covers?
hi pettero
Is this bracket meant to mount using the valve cover hold down screws? and what is the overall width? Ive attached pictures of my most recent crank sensor bracket and trigger wheel mounted on the motor.
that sensor bracket and wheel look awesome
Quote from: MechTech on May 04, 2015, 06:57:41 PM
hi pettero
Is this bracket meant to mount using the valve cover hold down screws? and what is the overall width? Ive attached pictures of my most recent crank sensor bracket and trigger wheel mounted on the motor.
Nice crank sensor bracket. Does it need to be adjustable, in/out or up/down? What is the other sensor mounted above the damper?
What are you guys running for cams and how much vacuum are they pulling? I have an old MP 484 cam with low vac, is a cam swap gonna be in the mix to get EFI to work? I know the Fast stuff wants more than 10".
Thanks grnfsh and GPULLER
This revision needs to be adjusted, the next rev. will not need adjustment except for the spacers if the spacers are the right height it should need no adjustment the next rev will also shield the sensor. As you can see now it is unprotected.
GPULLER The sensor you were asking about is for water temp its attached to my Meziere water pump housing.
As far as the cam goes you should have no problem with that cam. I don't know what my vacuum is but I am running a Racer Brown .520 lift cam
Thanks MechTech for the info. Sorry if I missed it but is your car up and running?
Hi GPULLER
Yes my car is running full sequential (thanks to redmist)
Sorry for the delayed response. The notifications for this thread end up in my spam folder.
That crank bracket looks really good. We've got some creative/capable people here. Good job.
The bracket is about 3.5" tall? (the short way). The coils will stick out some from the open end. It's not intended to use the cover bolts. I've got some aluminum threaded standoffs (3/4") that I'll mount to the bracket on it's mounting holes. Then it will be placed in the "best" spot on the surface of the cover and I'll have someone tig weld the standoffs to the cover. Then I can unbolt the bracket whenever needed. I'm still waiting to hear back from my friend about making the parts.
Now, on to the cam sensor adapter. I got one from SD Concepts but it didn't fit quite right. The hole was fine, it was side where the hold down is. My block has a ridge near the dist. hole that interferes with the adapter and doesn't allow it to seat. I emailed SD a couple times about it but never received a response so I took matters into my own hands.
As you can see in the picture, my die grinder got some good use. Also, the bolt sleeve was about 30 thousandths too long as well as needing to be adjusted on one side. Now it fits and the adapter seats properly.
I just received my redesigned brackets today and I couldn't be any happier with the way they turned out. The coils fit perfectly and the stock GM wiring harness works great even with the plastic pop-in harness holders. I had to tap the coil mounting holes. The threaded stand-offs are aluminum 3/4" and provide the right amount of space for the wiring. Now they need to be welded onto the valve covers.
Here's a few thousand words:
awesome! how do I get my hands on a pair?
Those brackets are nice. Has anybody played around with different coil locations other than the V/C? Not sure where but something little less GM? :lol:
I saw someone mount them under the intake manifold on a big block. Not sure how the heat would affect them there though.
I thought about a couple other places but nothing was so convenient. I got pricing to make some more and I was thinking about $45/pr. I'd need a few more interested parties to make it worth while though. They would be mild steel instead of stainless. Mine were the prototypes that were made with whatever was on the machine at the time. I would have preferred aluminum as stainless is pretty hard on the tap for threading the coil mounting holes.
:o awesome stuff :coolgleamA: :cheers: :popcrn:
I think Indy puts the coils under the manifold on the gen3 Hemi's. I would think that room would would be tight under the intake, unless the a person used the Edelbrock Pro-Flo.
Quote from: peterro on May 30, 2015, 05:56:49 PM
I just received my redesigned brackets today and I couldn't be any happier with the way they turned out. The coils fit perfectly and the stock GM wiring harness works great even with the plastic pop-in harness holders. I had to tap the coil mounting holes. The threaded stand-offs are aluminum 3/4" and provide the right amount of space for the wiring. Now they need to be welded onto the valve covers.
Here's a few thousand words:
Peterro
What is the OD on those standoffs?
Quote from: peterro on June 03, 2015, 10:44:27 PM
I thought about a couple other places but nothing was so convenient. I got pricing to make some more and I was thinking about $45/pr. I'd need a few more interested parties to make it worth while though. They would be mild steel instead of stainless. Mine were the prototypes that were made with whatever was on the machine at the time. I would have preferred aluminum as stainless is pretty hard on the tap for threading the coil mounting holes.
I'll need a set.
My '67 is/was running Megasquirt 2 for the fuel only until I get a complete handle on it before I add the new unknown of ignition control. Now that Silver State is over and the run was successful from an engine management point of view, ignition is up next. I have the same coils and CPS bushing setup you are using, just need to mount them up. What are you using for plug wires?
Ok, if grnfish is in, I just need one more who is interested and I'll order.
The OD of the standoffs is .315". The holes in the bracket at those locations were designed for #10 screws and the standoffs were just what the HW store had. Nothing special.
I need some insight into the cam position sensor wiring. Signal to the ms3x, power, and sensor ground, yes? I'm currently using the relay board power and sensor ground which has 5v and 12v. I've tried testing with 5v and I don't get any signal in the tooth logger. The diagram I found for the jeep wiring is 8v for the sensor. Any thoughts of a wiring or settings issue? I mainly want to test everything on the bench before installing in the car.
BTW 67Charger440, I haven't got to plug wires yet. I imagine something similar to the GM truck since the wires will be short.
Hi peterro
It looks like redmist helped out with that on page 14 of this post.
any of you guys going to Chrysler Carlisle in July?
Awesome, thanks. That means I think I was doing it right. I checked the voltage on the signal wire with 5v and gnd connected while turning the sensor and I get zero change. I guess it's possible that the CPS was the reason the jeep was in the wrecking yard. I think it may be time for a new sensor.
Thanks again.
Quote from: MechTech on June 16, 2015, 05:29:24 PM
Hi peterro
It looks like redmist helped out with that on page 14 of this post.
any of you guys going to Chrysler Carlisle in July?
Ill definitely be at Carlisle, how many days i don't know
Quote from: peterro on June 16, 2015, 09:41:24 PM
Awesome, thanks. That means I think I was doing it right. I checked the voltage on the signal wire with 5v and gnd connected while turning the sensor and I get zero change. I guess it's possible that the CPS was the reason the jeep was in the wrecking yard. I think it may be time for a new sensor.
Thanks again.
This is why I opted to spend a little more cash and just buy sensors new
Hi peterro
I don't know if you have found this Composite Logger it can be found in Tuner Studio under the Diagnostics & High Speed Loggers tab. What it allows you to see is the cam and crank sensor signals and you will be able to see if they are in sync as well. The green is the cam signal the blue is the crank and the red is synced. You can record your engine running and go back and look at it or you can watch it while it is running (if you are watching it while it is running it takes some time before the signals show up on the screen). You can also look at these signals in MegaLog Viewer using a .csv file.
Thanks. I don't have anything in the car yet so it's bench testing for now. I was measuring voltage on the CPS signal wire and I'm seeing change when it turns but it's very small. On the MS forum, it was recommended that I have a 1k pull-up resistor between the 5v and signal to make it work. Did you do that?
I don't have a resistor in my car.
Interesting. I put one in and now it works beautiful. I wonder if there was a difference in how I assembled the computer that may have made a difference. I know there are lots of options and I was still learning when I built it. In any case, I can claim victory on that. Now some crank trigger fab and start installing into the car. Woo Hoo.
Carlisle is a bit far from Oregon so I won't be there. At this point I'd like to get back on the road for our local all Mopar show/drags in Woodburn OR in July.
A HUGE thank you to Redmist for creating this post and filling it with so much useful info. I really appreciate the time and effort as it saved me so much time and effort. I have a 69 R/T that was running a tempermental POS six pak and now is running MS3 sequential fuel and spark. I built the system this winter and finally drove it last week. WHAT A FREAKIN DIFFERENCE! Bye bye carbs!
Perfect!!!!!
As more get on board, we need to start comparing tune data and such.
What color orange?
I believe it's a modern version of "go mango". It's a Chrysler color from around 2006. It looks like metallic copper in the sunlight. It was this color when I got it. The car was originally built by a member: Pistolpete (?).
Can't thank you enough Redmist. There's enough info in this thread to build the whole system. I'm still working on the tune but I can't believe the difference. Sooo smooth. I thought I had a lumpy cam but nope just badly metered fuel and spark.
Claudia.
Ah! I remember the Charger Daytona's being that color around 2006. Cool.
And yes, this has become only one of less than a handful of Charger threads/discussions I make note to check in on. As my post count indicates, I don't spend much time posting here. My Charger while mobile and excercised occasionally, is not my primary focus/project right now. But the EFI has got me thinking about my long term plans. I now have 2 pieces, LOL, for my setup. Actually searched out any redmist posts across the net and came across a thread on a pro touring website that had his cold air intake mod and gauge cluster. :2thumbs:
Igozumin: it is a lot of work but very satisfying and I have learned a ton navigating my way through this. :2thumbs:
That looks awesome and yes it is very satisfying along with the steep learning curve. I have a slim chance of possibly firing mine up this weekend for the first time. I should at least get all the sensors wired up and tested. I'm shooting for getting to the Mopar Nationals (show and drags) in Woodburn OR on the 26th.
This week I was pretty excited about pushing the button on my laptop and having my electric fans spin up. Very cool. I'm almost a member of the club. Can't wait.
Nearly everything wired and I was able to test all the sensors, coils, and injectors on the car. Very cool. One thing I do need to know is where you got the coil adapters for your existing wires? The local shop didn't know what I was talking about and I haven't found any with my searches.
Thanks again.
You mean the LS Coil boots to cut down your wires and crimp on??
Yep.
Quote from: peterro on July 13, 2015, 11:21:51 PM
Yep.
Boom!
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-3304/overview/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-3304/overview/)
Hi All
it's great seeing all of the progress you guys are making I am willing to share my tune with anyone. I am currently running 11.07 in my 3800lb Coronet
tallpole the way you have your coils is very interesting I would appreciate a better picture of how you mounted the coils.
redmist have you tried running in closed loop fueling? What I mean is have you tried to setup the controller so that it's adjusting the fuel based on the information it gets from the oxygen sensor. i worked with it a little but don't have it right yet.
Another thing I've done recently is setup Shadow Dash I was able to eliminate from my dash and steering column the tachometer, shift light, oxygen sensor gauge and fuel pressure gauge. With the Shadow Dash I have the tach, miles per hour, left & right side oxygen sensor, water temp. battery volts, fuel pressure, air intake temperature and you can set the tachometer on Shadow Dash so that it turns Red when the RPM gets to whatever rpm you have it set to so it takes the place of the shift light. You can also start and stop data logging from it.
I was at the Chrysler Nationals at Carlisle this past weekend and they had an expiremental version of the Hellcat called the Hellcat X it's a one of one. They incorporated a twin turbo setup with the supercharger. I,d love to drive that. A charity is raffling the Hellcat X and a 1970 Challenger 440RT as one prize.
Anyway good tuning all
Yes!
Please post your tune..
I am closed loop at idle as well as normal operation.
However with a good VE Map, I see it as not needed for the most part.
Mechtech: I will post a better picture when I get home. The coils are held in a bracket I cnc plasma'd and they bolt to some studs that hold the fuel rail in place. Seems to work for now. The same brackets hold my fuel rails at the correct height for my injectors without using adapters: I'm using the 2013/14 GT500 injectors that are an intermediate height.
So these are my coil brackets. Please excuse the mess. I haven't loomed the wires yet... figure I'd put some miles on and make sure everything is okay before I hide them away. The coils are packed pretty tight but seem to be happy.
On an unrelated note: pulled a header bolt for the first time and washed my feet in coolant. Really?? Header bolts that extend into the water jacket. Must have been designed on april 1st.
11.07 Mechtech?? Holy crap that's fast. What's your engine/tranny?
hi tallpole
I like to see Mopars beating Chevy's and Ford's. So here's the skinny It's a 30 over 440 11.3 to 1 compression (pump gas only) The heads are Procomp 72cc closed chamber they currently flow 348cfm at .600 lift. These heads have the intake and exhaust ports raised and they use an offset intake rocker, If anyone buys these heads definitely buy them bare. The guides, valves and springs are junk, so far the casting seems to be OK. I'm running a 520 lift Racer Brown cam with 1.6 rockers. The headers are close to 2" od. The trans is a 727 with a Cheetah reverse shift manual valve body a bolt in sprag the converter is a ATI 8" treemaster it actually flashes to 5600 rpm ( I love it). The rear a 4.10 Dana with 12.5" Mickey Thompson drag radials. The air intake if you notice the black pipe on the throttle body slides over a fitting mounted in the hood which is surrounded by a 440 sixpack air filter under a racer brown hood scoop. It ran 10.92 pryor to some changes that I made hopefully I can make the proper adjustments to get back there. I drive it to the track. Ill post my tune soon.
Mechtech: Thanks for the info. It's nice to see someone running that fast with a non-stroked, streetable 440. I've got my eye on the new TFS heads -when they make it to market- I hope they live up to the hype. Have you dyno tuned your combo?
Hey would something like this work? It adapts to the mopar harmonic balancer and then uses a.... hmmm,hmmm... Chevy... 3 bolt toothed wheel.
Quote from: tallpole on July 15, 2015, 10:03:28 PM
So these are my coil brackets. Please excuse the mess. I haven't loomed the wires yet... figure I'd put some miles on and make sure everything is okay before I hide them away. The coils are packed pretty tight but seem to be happy.
On an unrelated note: pulled a header bolt for the first time and washed my feet in coolant. Really?? Header bolts that extend into the water jacket. Must have been designed on april 1st.
That bracket is pretty trick, did you make that? oh and yes, i found out the hard way once that the header bolts go into the water jackets
I have really enjoyed this thread.
It inspired me to conervt my Charger.
I need a little advice though on the crank trigger wheel.
I had a MSD flying magnet crank trigger on the motor. Using a ATI damper with the magnets embedded directly into the damper shell.
I want to use the same crank sensor in the current location. I am getting ATI to make a new shell for the damper with a 36-1 pattern in it.
My question is where to put the missing tooth.
I think at TDC on the damper.
The sensor is about 30-70 degrees on the pass side of the motor from TDC.
Will this work?
There is a PDF of ATI's shop drawing attached
GRNFSH: I did make the bracket with a little cnc plasma table I have.
SASKRUNNER: there is a section in the MS3 manual (around page 122 of 212) that goes into positioning the missing tooth/tdc and the sensor. From memory... you need to give the computer time to read TDC (especially at high rpms) so you want to set it up that the sensor sees the gap then a few teeth (as set in the manual) and then TDC. Mine has the gap set so the sensor sees TDC approximately 5 teeth after the gap.
I THINK.... that it's not critical where the missing tooth is as long as the position of the sensor relative to the gap gives the computer time to read a few teeth before TDC.
If your gap and sensor were both at TDC then not enough time. Your gap at TDC and your sensor set 50 degrees counterclockwise to TDC= enough time.
I hope this helps :yesnod:
"SASKRUNNER" are you from a flat province with a lot of farmers? If so I'm one province west of you.
:Twocents:
tallpole I have not ever had this car on a Dyno I just datalog at the track and make adjustments to the afr. I run around 12.7 afr at wide open throttle.
Aussiemadonmopars I am pretty sure that I read in a forum I think on DIY that 60 teeth did not work well for high rpm I don't recall how high they were talking about but look into it before you go that way. A 36 tooth does seem to be plenty accurate it has not missed a beat yet.
SaskRunner tooth one ( which is the first tooth after the missing tooth) is supposed to show up 40deg. BTD. that's where I have mine and so does redmist. In my experience the flying magnet is difficult to adjust in the megasuirt 3 there are two pots that need to be adjusted to get the signal right. Using a Hall sensor (DIY carries them) is rather straight forward you only need to set a jumper in the controller and it works. The Hall sensor and steel wheel is way cheaper than the flying magnet as well.
Mine is right here at TDC.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4uZOYOrdgm8/UWR690ZeysI/AAAAAAAAAEg/k0_EIDmOAU4/s912/efi22.jpg)
Quote from: MechTech on July 18, 2015, 11:13:56 AM
:Twocents:
Aussiemadonmopars I am pretty sure that I read in a forum I think on DIY that 60 teeth did not work well for high rpm I don't recall how high they were talking about but look into it before you go that way. A 36 tooth does seem to be plenty accurate it has not missed a beat yet.
:Twocents:
I spose it depends on the sensor sensitivity but I would of thought at higher RPM having the extra 2 degree's of gap would help somewhat.
redmist If I see your picture correctly it looks like the sensor sees tooth one at least 40 degs BTDC. What number are you using for your tooth 1 offset? Oh I see what happened I said what I said wrong. The sensor needs to see tooth one 40 degs BTDC. My tooth 1 offset set is 35
Yup, I am at 40deg offset in the software.
Ok, I'm confused.
It appears that the angle from TDC to tooth 1 is the important measure and that the sensor location doesn't matter? I see your picture is that tooth 1 is 40deg btdc and the sensor looks like another 40deg before that. The recommendation below implies that both wheel and sensor should be at 40deg (for v8).
I hadn't realized this before putting the wheel on the pulley so my tooth 1 is at about tdc and my sensor is about 50deg btdc. I'm wondering what settings I should use to compensate.
For reference, this is from the documentation:
The code can cope with any tooth#1 angle. However, during cranking the engine speed varies up and down
greatly as the engine rotates. It is desirable to place the missing tooth such that it passes the sensor when the
engine speed is somewhat stable or it may be impossible for the ECU to "see" the missing tooth. The OEMs
have found that certain tooth#1 angles work well and it is worth following their lead.
It is suggested to align your wheel and sensor to arrive at the following tooth #1 angles.
Hi peterro In my opinion what you have described sounds pretty close to what you want. A number near 40deg. in your tooth one offset should work fine. You use the tooth one offset to adjust your timing so that it matches what you have in your timing table. When you are trying to start for the first time don't fire the injectors (you should have fuses to your injectors pull them) just crank it and check your timing with a light and make sure its stable and where you want it for starting.
Now that makes a lot of sense. I did just what you said and now have it (per the factory gauge) at about a little above the 20deg mark when cranking. I think that's about right. My #1 tooth angle is now is at 45deg.
Now on to the last item of plumbing the fuel and installing the pump. Yesterday was all about installing the throttle/kickdown cables. Throttle is from a Buick Park Avenue and kickdown is a hood release from a chevy truck (in the Lokar housing). I couldn't find anything else long enough. In any case, they both seem to be working perfectly. Only a slight modification to the pedal to allow the cable end to pass through the hole. It's getting close. I have 1-week before the show (my arbitrary deadline).
Thanks again for all the help.
hi peterro one other thing you can do to make sure you are getting spark at the proper time in the cycle. If you pull all of the plugs except for cylinder one and crank it you should hear the compression on cylinder one and then the spark.
Quote from: tallpole on July 18, 2015, 10:31:13 AM
SASKRUNNER: there is a section in the MS3 manual (around page 122 of 212) that goes into positioning the missing tooth/tdc and the sensor. From memory... you need to give the computer time to read TDC (especially at high rpms) so you want to set it up that the sensor sees the gap then a few teeth (as set in the manual) and then TDC. Mine has the gap set so the sensor sees TDC approximately 5 teeth after the gap.
I THINK.... that it's not critical where the missing tooth is as long as the position of the sensor relative to the gap gives the computer time to read a few teeth before TDC.
If your gap and sensor were both at TDC then not enough time. Your gap at TDC and your sensor set 50 degrees counterclockwise to TDC= enough time.
I hope this helps :yesnod:
(http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a640/weeksask/Charger/2242DFA5-DD60-479B-8EB5-534B613C4355_zpsfskygzpb.jpg) (http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/weeksask/media/Charger/2242DFA5-DD60-479B-8EB5-534B613C4355_zpsfskygzpb.jpg.html)
After reading this thread and looking in the manual. I went back out to the car and moved the sensor to the lowest position and lined it up with TDC. This put the motor at 60 BTDC.
As I comprehend it. I will get the gap at 60 BTDC. This gives me lots of room as I run the timing at 32 degrees advanced.
Does that sound logical?
My next question is about the sensor.
Currently I am using a VR sensor with the crank trigger set up.
Will it work with a 36-1 wheel?
Thanks for the help. I'm running the same VR sensor that redmist is with a 36-1 wheel. I got my plug wire boots yesterday and put them on. I don't have fuel so to test spark, I sprayed some starting fluid in. It cranked a couple times and then made the right noise and ran for about a half second. Woo Hoo!
Now to plumb the fuel.
Hi SASKRUNNER
The manual seems to indicate that the setting should be 40 deg. for a V8. In my brief scan I did not see a reason for it being 40 deg.. I am pretty sure in my researching this in the past that the reason for the 40deg. setting is because the motor while cranking is the most settled / consistant at that degree in the cycle. I don't think there is any other reason for it.
As far as the VR sensor I'm not sure if it will work or not, what I do know is it is difficult to adjust the pots in the control. if you already have it adjusted try it and see if you get a signal otherwise a Hall Sensor is rather straight forward.
I emailed DIYAutotune about this. Their response was the only position the gap cannot be in is lined up with the sensor when the motor is at TDC. So I ordered my wheel with the gap at TDC on the damper. This gives me 60 degrees of lead before the motor reaches TDC.
So just a quick recap for us amateurs; what you guys have done so far with the MS3X, can that be done with the MS2 + daughter board? What are the additional features between them so far?
Aussiemadonmopars
I never looked into the MS2 so I don't know the answer but if you try this link I think it has the info you are looking for.
http://www.extraefi.co.uk/MS3_Settings.html
you can select the setup manual for MS1,2 or 3
I've been following this thread for some time now, but just decided to register and share my success too!
Mine is a 383 (in a Super Bee, sorry!), so there isn't as cool an EFI intake available (or any EFI intake) so I had to modify an old Torker, but I used the same basic recipe. MS3X, Jeep cam sensor, LS truck coils, 36-1 wheel.
I got mine running about two weeks ago and really haven't had much time to work on tuning it, but it sure runs nicely right out of the box!
:2thumbs:
Did you do the EFI manifold yourself or have a shop do it? Your right, there is nothing for a low deck motor in EFI.
Quote from: Aussiemadonmopars on August 09, 2015, 07:12:01 PM
Did you do the EFI manifold yourself or have a shop do it? Your right, there is nothing for a low deck motor in EFI.
I did it myself... it took quite a while since I only have access to a tiny drill press, but the end result is pretty nice. I don't have access to aluminum welding equipment, so I just epoxied the bungs in. First I tried to use some aluminum brazing rods, but that proved quite hopeless.
I kind of made a simple jig (not as nice as I had planned) for drilling the holes in the runners so I could add the bungs to any intake that I got my hands on, with the hopes of scoring a deal on a Victor 383 intake one day.
If I had to do it again, I would probably just buy a Victor new and modify it... the Torker that I used is so low that the fuel rails really got in the way of the linkages and I needed to add a 2" carb spacer to get anything to work.
:cheers:
Thanks for the 383 info. Will put it to use on my father-in-laws Roadrunner.
MechTech and Redmist, what did you use for your PCV valve setup?
I used some aftermarket "Billet" caps and drilled holes in the Valve Covers for them. One of the billet caps has a PCV valve in it, and I ran that to the back of the intake. The other cap is a vented cap.
I used the grommets out of an old set of valve covers and connected the PVC to the left side middle of the intake. Proofs to Black_Bee for your ingenuity. That's one of the coolest things about this DIY stuff figuring out how to make it work and building it.
Wow 20 pages of great info!! I am starting research on building my car with EFI. I have looked at the off the shelf stuff and had it down to the Holley TBI set-up. Well someone said if you are going to go, jump all in and go TPI, so jumped down that foxhole and found some other resources, including a place that will sell me a Edelbrock / Fast system for $4k.. But I don't want to go with Fast or pay 4k... So now is time for my Automotive training to kick in... Thank God my Dad bought us those Radio Shack kits as a Kid...
Quote from: Derwud on August 11, 2015, 10:58:10 AM
Wow 20 pages of great info!! I am starting research on building my car with EFI. I have looked at the off the shelf stuff and had it down to the Holley TBI set-up. Well someone said if you are going to go, jump all in and go TPI, so jumped down that foxhole and found some other resources, including a place that will sell me a Edelbrock / Fast system for $4k.. But I don't want to go with Fast or pay 4k... So now is time for my Automotive training to kick in... Thank God my Dad bought us those Radio Shack kits as a Kid...
It depends what is included in that $4k. The route I took was almost entirely DIY (I bought an assembled MS3x, and had a machinist fit the trigger wheel to the crank pulley) and I overspent on a few items (Phantom 340 in tank pump kit), and couldn't source ANY used sensors or connectors, bought a used intake, injectors, and coils and I am not far off of that $4000 all said and done.
:cheers:
That doesn't include Fuel Supply. I was going to go with a Tanks Inc Tank and in tank pump.. With lines and Regulator add another 800 to 1000.
So, I was thinking of using the Dual Sync FAST distributor which is supposed to do both Crank and Cam signal and just make a funky cap for it.. Just a thought..
Anyone able to get a Tanks Inc tank yet for the 68-70 chargers?? Its said Coming Soon!! for a long time now.
They said Sept last time I talked to them..
There are pics of an oem-style Tanks-Inc EFI tank on Moparts.com http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1833306/re-let-the-hemi-swap-begin.html (http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1833306/re-let-the-hemi-swap-begin.html) and it looks super sweet... much nicer than the Phantom setup which honestly was the biggest pain in my rear of my entire conversion.
:cheers:
Quote from: redmist on August 12, 2015, 09:19:13 PM
Anyone able to get a Tanks Inc tank yet for the 68-70 chargers?? Its said Coming Soon!! for a long time now.
I've had one on order since June, I called last week and they said they were expecting to receive them on August 14th. So hopefully I will have mine within the next 2 weeks.
Quote from: WHITE AND RED 69 on August 13, 2015, 12:30:12 PM
Quote from: redmist on August 12, 2015, 09:19:13 PM
Anyone able to get a Tanks Inc tank yet for the 68-70 chargers?? Its said Coming Soon!! for a long time now.
I've had one on order since June, I called last week and they said they were expecting to receive them on August 14th. So hopefully I will have mine within the next 2 weeks.
Sweet, let us know...
WOW.. Tanks INC deal is not bad at all. I was going to go with the Phantom pump but I think I changed my mind. You spend about $100 more for the Tanks Inc by the time you are done buying a pump and sending unit BUT you get a brand new tank, and you dont have to spend time Effing with cutting a hole in your tank. You could even re-sell existing parts and come out in the black.
I am doing the same thing....
I already have a phantom system, but it's hacked into my stock tank. I am going to remove the phantom, put the pump in a surge tank, and use the tanks inc setup!
EDIT!
Just dropped coin on the tank, and a sending unit!
I will add it to the thread when I put it in!
Quote from: redmist on August 18, 2015, 11:39:23 PM
Just dropped coin on the tank, and a sending unit!
I will add it to the thread when I put it in!
any indication of back order? Time to delivery?
Didn't look like it.. they sent it right out!
My tank showed up today, very happy with it. The powder coating looks great and the tank itself appears to be well made. :2thumbs:
Looks great, thanks for sharing
Very Nice.. Jealous...
Quote from: WHITE AND RED 69 on August 20, 2015, 11:14:40 PM
My tank showed up today, very happy with it. The powder coating looks great and the tank itself appears to be well made. :2thumbs:
That sure is a lot nicer than my stock tank with Phantom kit. It sure seems like a no-brainer to use this tank instead of anything else now.
:cheers:
Quote from: Black_Bee on August 22, 2015, 07:37:20 PM
Quote from: WHITE AND RED 69 on August 20, 2015, 11:14:40 PM
My tank showed up today, very happy with it. The powder coating looks great and the tank itself appears to be well made. :2thumbs:
That sure is a lot nicer than my stock tank with Phantom kit. It sure seems like a no-brainer to use this tank instead of anything else now.
:cheers:
Yeah, less than the Phantom kit and more manageable.
Got my tank as well... I will start another thread about it so it doesn't get buried in this thread.
I've been going through the manuals for the MS2 & MS3 and I've been finding it hard to find the differences between the two. It looks like maybe some of the hardware might be a little different with the MS3 having the SD card but apart from that I'm at a loss. Is it really worth paying the extra and going for the MS3 pro edition? What other features do you get out of MS3?
Hi Aussiemadonmopars
The time that I have spent looking it looks like the MS2 version does not not allow full sequential fuel or ignition. The MS3 does not either. The MS3X does and the MS3Pro does. If that's not important to you I am sure you'll do fine with an MS2.
cool, thanks for the reply Mechtech. So I guess this leads me to some other questions like, what are the advantages of having the full sequential fuel and spark capability? Does it make for a smoother running engine? Are there any benefits with using full sequential with other fuels like E85? Just trying to guage whether it's worth going for the extra effort to upgrade.
Hi Aussiemadonmopars
I don't know yet how much of a benefit I have actually gotten from full sequential. I was running batch fueling which is what the MS2 will give you, I had read somewhere that full sequential will increase your horsepower 2 to 3%. My motor feels like it is making more power although I do not have an ET to prove it. Some of the tuning benefits are that you can adjust fuel per cylinder and spark timing per cylinder. One improvement that I noticed right away was that the timing was dead on every spark it did not wonder around like a distributor or MSD crank trigger (and you can set any timing curve that you want). That alone seems like it would smooth out the motor. redmist indicated on one of his posts that he thouhgt his motor was running smoother on the full sequential over the carburetor. The MS3X and Pro give you a lot of tuning option's and finding a new toy in the toybox to play with is always fun and rewarding. The MS3 allows for different fueling option's I think the MS2 does also. If money is the determining factor you could start with the MS3 and wire up and oxygen sensor Air Intake Temp sensor connect the MAP sensor set up a tach sensor and later add the MS3X card for sequential spark and later on add sequential fuel. If you are just starting a build The MS3X controller will allow you to do away with and MSD unit for ignition.
Still, 2-3% on a 500HP engine is a good gain especially if it smothens out the lumps and makes it more manageable on the street. Thanks for the detailed info Mechtech.
Quote from: Black_Bee on August 08, 2015, 12:05:20 PM
I've been following this thread for some time now, but just decided to register and share my success too!
Mine is a 383 (in a Super Bee, sorry!), so there isn't as cool an EFI intake available (or any EFI intake) so I had to modify an old Torker, but I used the same basic recipe. MS3X, Jeep cam sensor, LS truck coils, 36-1 wheel.
I got mine running about two weeks ago and really haven't had much time to work on tuning it, but it sure runs nicely right out of the box!
:2thumbs:
Bee , nice work, I like how you have you coils mounted. Did you just put a nut on the underside of the valve cover? are you concerned about the nut coming loose and falling into the drive train?
Quote from: grnfsh on August 27, 2015, 12:26:10 PM
Bee , nice work, I like how you have you coils mounted. Did you just put a nut on the underside of the valve cover? are you concerned about the nut coming loose and falling into the drive train?
I basically copied what Mopar Action did. From the inside, small screws are threaded and threadlockered through the valve covers into short coupling nuts. The coil is then held in place with another small screw into the same coupling nut. Fiber washers on the inside keep things relatively leak free so far.
I had thought of using some epoxy to make things permanent and reduce the risk of the nuts falling out, but then I would worry about the epoxy falling out too...
:cheers:
Quote from: Black_Bee on August 27, 2015, 11:41:51 PM
Quote from: grnfsh on August 27, 2015, 12:26:10 PM
Bee , nice work, I like how you have you coils mounted. Did you just put a nut on the underside of the valve cover? are you concerned about the nut coming loose and falling into the drive train?
I basically copied what Mopar Action did. From the inside, small screws are threaded and threadlockered through the valve covers into short coupling nuts. The coil is then held in place with another small screw into the same coupling nut. Fiber washers on the inside keep things relatively leak free so far.
I had thought of using some epoxy to make things permanent and reduce the risk of the nuts falling out, but then I would worry about the epoxy falling out too...
:cheers:
I thought about doing it that way as well. What I would do differently, and this is just in my head right now. Is run one long screw all the way through from the inside of the valve cover and use it like a stud for the coil. That way at least you can visually see its still there and check how tight it is on occasion. Do you think that would work?
Hey Guys quick question about the cam sensor. With the engine at TDC. how should it be clocked?
Quote from: grnfsh on August 28, 2015, 04:36:18 PM
Hey Guys quick question about the cam sensor. With the engine at TDC. how should it be clocked?
My synchronizer came with a plastic tool that bolted to the synchronizer in place of the sensor to set its position, and it set the half moon OFF of the sensor (.05V) at TDC compression (just about centered), and ON (4.95V) the sensor at TDC exhaust (also just about centered). This can be be reversed if you choose to, you just have to choose the correct settings in TunerStudio with the "Level for Phase 1" setting.
If you are asking about the clocking of the housing itself, I just set it to where it looked tidy. If it isnt where you want it when you set the sensor, just move the cam gear on the cam.
:cheers:
Hey again.
I'm making some progress and I think I'm pretty close. Would some of you mind posting your current tune? My 440 isn't anything special. Basically a stock motorhome build from 78 so it may not be right but maybe closer than what I have.
Thanks,
Ron
After a night of thinking about my issue, I think my VE table is probably not right. The car starts and sort of idles at ~15-1700 for 1-2 seconds before falling flat as if without any fuel. Anyone have a good link for the specs of a 78 Winnebago 440 for a starting point to feed into the table generator?
Thanks again.
Quote from: peterro on September 01, 2015, 02:35:11 PM
After a night of thinking about my issue, I think my VE table is probably not right. The car starts and sort of idles at ~15-1700 for 1-2 seconds before falling flat as if without any fuel. Anyone have a good link for the specs of a 78 Winnebago 440 for a starting point to feed into the table generator?
Thanks again.
Are you getting sync losses while attempting to run it? I believe that you you can be WAY off on the VE tables and still have it at least stay running for a while, but if it loses sync, it will never stay running (this is what my 383 did). Do a regular datalog (datalogging -> "start logging") and see if there are any sync losses captured in there when it dies.
Also, are you relying on the IAC valve to keep the engine running, or can you keep it running by using the gas pedal? Assuming that there is one, have you set the throttle body idle adjustment screws?
:cheers:
I do see loss at the very beginning of cranking but it goes away and is clean at the end. I had adjusted the pots on the ms3x all CCW and the CW 2.75 turns on R11? When I tried the throttle, it seemed to do nothing. I captured logs and posted them (with config) over on the megasquirt forum for some help there. (http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=59597). After the pot adjustment, it does start easier though sometimes coughs through the manifold. :brickwall:
Today I don't hate the car, but Saturday was a different story. I was ready to push the car into the corner of the shop and forget about it until spring.
Hi peterro
I was pulling my hair out last winter trying to figure mine out it turned out to be a simple setting. keep at it Ill try to get my tune to you its for a 600 horse motor so you will need to back off the VE table under fuel settings and Idle VE table under Startup Idle. Do you have a gauge for your O2 sensor (very helpful when troubleshooting). Also you may need to adjust your afterstart enrichment time ASE or your warmup enrichment WUE. They should be under Startup/Idle. You may also need to adjust Required Fuel under Basic Load Settings / Engine Sequential Settings
Well, the stupid TB linkage set screw was loose which helped a lot. It now starts and runs but only with fiddling with the throttle and it won't idle. Still, as bad as it is, it's never been so smooth. Thoughts on what to change? If you're interested, logs are posted at the link in the previous post.
At least it's getting better.
I really need to get off my ass and get going on my instal
Hi peterro
Check your Idle VE table under Idle Startup it needs to be turned on
Thanks, I'll give that a shot.
On the megasquirt forum, they mentioned that I had a lot of advance at idle and to back it off as well as bumping up the idle set screw. I don't have the table here at work to post but was wondering if I could see other examples if they would apply being a basically stock motor. I think I'm in low 20s but I'm not sure without looking at it. I also hadn't messed with the idle set screw as it's only very stable at about 1500rpms which seems a bit high even when cold.
Also, at what point should I start messing with the auto-tune feature?
Thanks again
Mech, redmist,
Are you guys selling the brackets and toothed wheel yet? I have money and NEED :icon_smile_big: one of each!
Quote from: peterro on September 03, 2015, 10:00:49 AM
Thanks, I'll give that a shot.
On the megasquirt forum, they mentioned that I had a lot of advance at idle and to back it off as well as bumping up the idle set screw. I don't have the table here at work to post but was wondering if I could see other examples if they would apply being a basically stock motor. I think I'm in low 20s but I'm not sure without looking at it. I also hadn't messed with the idle set screw as it's only very stable at about 1500rpms which seems a bit high even when cold.
Also, at what point should I start messing with the auto-tune feature?
Thanks again
While still trying to get it to run right, try using fixed advance timing... set it to something that we all know works like 18*.
Then, try completely disabling the IAC and opening up the idle screw even more.
By doing this, you will be able to remove these two variables from consideration. When you get it to idle, you can easily go back and set these values.
I too was ready to give up on my car (at least for the summer)... although honestly I have hardly driven & tuned the car due to simply being burned out from the extended build.
:cheers:
Nope, not me, I am full on 100% making guns right now.
Quote from: redmist on September 03, 2015, 04:21:10 PM
Nope, not me, I am full on 100% making guns right now.
Redmist is making freedom
Success! Woo Hoo! After a VE table regeneration, it started and ran like it should. Still more tuning to be done but it's about ready to drive.
The problem I'm seeing now is that the TB doesn't return to fully closed after a throttle hit. Not good. It's a cheap ebay item. I'm going to try some silicone lube on the shaft which may help but the spring doesn't feel strong enough. I actually have to close it manually with my hand to get it to fully idle down. Anyone have any other ideas? Can't drive without throttle control. I also need to do some more kickdown cable adjustments.
Congrats!!!
:cheers:
Whatever you do, DO NOT change the required fuel as a part of tuning. Use the VE table only!
You could try a secondary spring I attached a picture of my setup. I Pimp for Ross Machine Racing throttle bodies they have a pretty strong spring. The reason I have a secondary spring is because NHRA requires a backup spring
Is there anyone else that wants a trigger wheel and sensor bracket. I am recommending this wheel not be used unless you have an aluminum vibration damper.
Quote from: MechTech on September 05, 2015, 07:14:22 AM
Is there anyone else that wants a trigger wheel and sensor bracket. I am recommending this wheel not be used unless you have an aluminum vibration damper.
How much and which damper do you recommend for a street engine and that set-up?
I use an ATI damper the brand does not mater as long as the shell is aluminum. I am quessing I can make a for set for $140. the sensor bracket is designed to be used with the DIYAUTOTUNE.COM Hall Effect Crankshaft Position Sensor.
Quote from: MechTech on September 06, 2015, 03:44:38 PM
I use an ATI damper the brand does not mater as long as the shell is aluminum. I am quessing I can make a for set for $140. the sensor bracket is designed to be used with the DIYAUTOTUNE.COM Hall Effect Crankshaft Position Sensor.
Would you have to shim the pulleys or turn down the damper for a lip to make it fit?
It should attach without any modifications. The trigger wheel is 3/16" thick I put a 1/16" undercut in it which allows the pulley to pilot onto the damper. I supply the sensor bracket with spacers that fit my setup.
Quote from: MechTech on September 07, 2015, 07:38:02 AM
It should attach without any modifications. The trigger wheel is 3/16" thick I put a 1/16" undercut in it which allows the pulley to pilot onto the damper. I supply the sensor bracket with spacers that fit my setup.
PM already sent, I'm in for one. :cheers:
I am in, I need to do a little extra research as I was planning to go to a ribbed belt set-up..
Thanks mechtech. I pulled the TB cam off and drilled a mount for a return spring and that worked great.
So far, all my work has been in the engine compartment with a remote starter switch. I was about to take it out for a spin to get gas and do some tuning and realized that when I start with the key, the computer loses power. I believe my "switched" power is on with the key but seems to shut off when cranking. What did you guys use for switched power that doesn't drop when cranking?
If I remember right, I used both sides of the resister connectors together.
I rewired my car since then, but I believe that's how it was setup before.
I used an external switch. I saw on Gas Monkey Garage when they were installing an EFI system. They used a delay off timer relay which seems like a good way to get around the problem. I am using two switches one that turns on the megasquirt and the other turns on the coils and oxygen sensors. The switches turn on 40amp relays that power fuse blocks
Quote from: redmist on September 08, 2015, 07:49:24 AM
If I remember right, I used both sides of the resister connectors together.
I rewired my car since then, but I believe that's how it was setup before.
I did the same thing. The two ballast resistor power wires (run and crank) are both attached to the relay coil.
:cheers:
Thanks. I tried the 2 hot wires from the ballast resistor and still no fire when cranking with the key. I originally used the wire from the coil as switched power. I would have thought that would stay hot while cranking. Do you think it's that the voltage goes too low on those lines when cranking for the computer to run? I'll need to spend some more time troubleshooting unless anyone has any more ideas.
I didn't see your post black_bee before posting this. I guess I'll have to check my work.
Thanks again.
Quote from: peterro on September 09, 2015, 01:04:59 AM
Thanks. I tried the 2 hot wires from the ballast resistor and still no fire when cranking with the key. I originally used the wire from the coil as switched power. I would have thought that would stay hot while cranking. Do you think it's that the voltage goes too low on those lines when cranking for the computer to run? I'll need to spend some more time troubleshooting unless anyone has any more ideas.
I didn't see your post black_bee before posting this. I guess I'll have to check my work.
Thanks again.
If you have wired it through a relay (as you absolutely 100% should do), voltage on those lines should not be an issue since they are simply triggering the relay to pull power straight from the battery.
:cheers:
I've been looking around for someone to make a manifold for the 383 short deck big blocks and there are a few guys around that can do it but would it be better to go for something like the FAST EFI 4150 based throttle body? It seems like it would be a lot easier and a little bit cheaper in the long run. If you look at what comes with it as well: the throttle body, 4 x 85lb high impedance injectors, fuel rails, sensors. I have also heard that the throttle body injection setups get more power as well (correct me if I'm wrong). Your thoughts guys??
No doubt one of the new TB EFI systems would be easier to set up than a megasquirt conversion. One issue i saw with those kits is the need for vacuum. My engine produces very little. You are also somewhat limited to what you can do with it vs a megasquirt but for most folks that would be a great set up;
I was actually just thinking of purchasing the FAST throttle body by itself with the sensors and injectors and no ECU. As you can see in the picture you get the whole lot for about $1k which when you look at getting a manifold redone with new injector bungs and fuel rails will cost $650 plus a set of good injectors for say $300 and you might be up to about the same level without a throttle. No doubt I will still be using a MS ECU but there is limited options for the hardware for the low deck big blocks and I thought I would throw this out there as another option. I definitely might consider it unless someone chimes in with something better.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/191410715564?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
I am running that exact unit on the 609HP 496" stroker in my '67 Charger. MS2 ECU, working on adding spark control next. It works great, just plan on spending some cash to source all the pigtails or drop the coin in the fast harness and adapt it to the ECU. I went the former route and used a Mil-spec cannon Amphenol connector at the firewall. I run it at 65 psi to make sure I have enough fuel flowing through those 4 injectors. Haven't 100% duty cycled them yet.
Quote from: 67Charger440 on September 20, 2015, 08:00:42 PM
I am running that exact unit on the 609HP 496" stroker in my '67 Charger. MS2 ECU, working on adding spark control next. It works great, just plan on spending some cash to source all the pigtails or drop the coin in the fast harness and adapt it to the ECU. I went the former route and used a Mil-spec cannon Amphenol connector at the firewall. I run it at 65 psi to make sure I have enough fuel flowing through those 4 injectors. Haven't 100% duty cycled them yet.
Thanks for the info Mate. I thought the sensors they were using were the GM ones so you could just use GM connectors. I would be interested in seeing what your duty cycle is on those 4 x 85lb injectors.
They are GM connectors, easy at a junkyard. I'll download some loggers when I get back to the car...
I installed Shadow Dash MS on my car.The MS3X ECU sends its data via Bluetooth to the tablet I bought for $100. The complete setup cost about $170. I shot a video while at the track that I posted on Youtube the link is below.
https://youtu.be/i6bj7ggJnDY
Quote from: MechTech on September 05, 2015, 07:14:22 AM
Is there anyone else that wants a trigger wheel and sensor bracket. I am recommending this wheel not be used unless you have an aluminum vibration damper.
What was the issue? Was the sensor picking up the steel damper? Which damper did you use ?
Made some progress on my own build yesterday, got my coils mounted to the valve covers. Hardest part was deciding what I was going to do, and how I was going to do it. I just got some machine screws from the hardware store and ran them though from the bottom. My concern was the screw falling threw if the coil ever came lose, so I put a nut on the other side of the screw so it acts like a stud. I found some nylon spacers to give the coils some support, it also keeps them physically off of the valve covers as well so they wont scratch. I plan on painting or powder coating the valve covers.
Quote from: MechTech on September 05, 2015, 06:14:15 AM
You could try a secondary spring I attached a picture of my setup. I Pimp for Ross Machine Racing throttle bodies they have a pretty strong spring. The reason I have a secondary spring is because NHRA requires a backup spring
Need to get Ross Machine Racing to develop an intake manifold for BB mopars
Quote from: redmist on September 03, 2015, 04:21:10 PM
Nope, not me, I am full on 100% making guns right now.
'MERICA!
I spoke with Ross Machine Racing today about developing that intake, he wants to make them he has drawn one up for a 440 it looks way cool. We were talking about how to make it so that it will have common parts to fit 383 400 and 440 and have various length runners dual and single throttle bodies and plenums. Ive been licking my chops for one of those intakes also. Ill keep talking to him about it.
That's awesome. :cheers: I was actually half joking because I didnt think anyone would build one do to lack of market. Ill be following.
Hey grnfsh, where did you pick up those valve covers? They don't look like the ones from 440 Source.
Quote from: shawge on October 13, 2015, 10:19:27 AM
Hey grnfsh, where did you pick up those valve covers? They don't look like the ones from 440 Source.
Ebay, got them from seller skipwhite $80
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BIG-BLOCK-BB-MOPAR-DODGE-440-FABRICATED-ALUMINUM-TALL-VALVE-COVERS-8097-7CA-/370800452266?hash=item56556de2aa
Quote from: MechTech on October 12, 2015, 07:21:09 PM
I spoke with Ross Machine Racing today about developing that intake, he wants to make them he has drawn one up for a 440 it looks way cool. We were talking about how to make it so that it will have common parts to fit 383 400 and 440 and have various length runners dual and single throttle bodies and plenums. Ive been licking my chops for one of those intakes also. Ill keep talking to him about it.
what would be even more bad ass is a modular manifold for BB mopars that can accept multiple types of options for induction. EFI, Carb, or something like a magnusun supercharger. Sort of like the "mod-man" that Indy sells for GENIII Hemis
I was at Maryland International Raceway this past Saturday for an all Mopar event. I got the car to go 10.86 I new it was making more power with this sequential setup. I think with a little more tuning I can make it to the 10.70s
Quote from: MechTech on November 02, 2015, 05:55:28 PM
I was at Maryland International Raceway this past Saturday for an all Mopar event. I got the car to go 10.86 I new it was making more power with this sequential setup. I think with a little more tuning I can make it to the 10.70s
What was it running before, and did you make any other changes?
:cheers:
Fastest it ran prior was 10.92 same intake with Batch fueling and MSD ignition.
Hey 67CHarger440, did you get the info on those injectors and the duty cycle?
Quote from: MechTech on November 02, 2015, 05:55:28 PM
I was at Maryland International Raceway this past Saturday for an all Mopar event. I got the car to go 10.86 I new it was making more power with this sequential setup. I think with a little more tuning I can make it to the 10.70s
That's pretty awesome, gotta love the extra power. Best I did with my cuda before EFI was 11.60, hope to improve on that as I don't believe I ever had the correct carb set up.
Also Good to know that Proflo XT manifold is capable of power. I was a bit concerned about it.
Do you guys use and O2 sensor on both sides (2) or just one?
I use O2 sensors on both sides of the motor. What I have found with my setup is the sensors do not read the same, below 5000rpm the left side reads leaner than the right above 5000rpm the right side goes leaner. The good news is because of the sequential setup fuel can be adjusted per cylinder I increased fuel to each cylinder on the right above 5000rpm. After doing that I was able to get it to 10.86
Interesting, thanks, I think I am planning on one on each collector.
Mine is in the X pipe.
Quote from: redmist on November 12, 2015, 12:26:57 AM
Mine is in the X pipe.
It would be interesting to see what the readings would be if you were to put in two O2 sensors and whether you would have similar readings to other people's setups. You could see if other heads, porting and compression makes a difference. I suspect the difference between the O2 levels on each side means, that is why a throttle body injection setup would work better. However if the multipoint/sequential setup is better tuned than it would probably produce more power.
My understanding is that you want the o2 sensor in the collector of the header, before it meets the rest of the exhaust. This reduces the possibility of an exhaust leak compromising the reading by introducing external air to the sensor.
My intention over this winter is to put O2 bungs in each header tube 6 inch's or so prior to the collector and run 4 O2 sensors. Air flow is different per cylinder for many reasons so I want to take advantage of being able to adjust fuel per cylinder and see what kind of performance gains I can achieve. I guess that's a bit anal but its like I said before there are lots of toys in the Megasquirt box so this is the next one I want to play with.
Quote from: MechTech on November 12, 2015, 09:19:01 PM
My intention over this winter is to put O2 bungs in each header tube 6 inch's or so prior to the collector and run 4 O2 sensors. Air flow is different per cylinder for many reasons so I want to take advantage of being able to adjust fuel per cylinder and see what kind of performance gains I can achieve. I guess that's a bit anal but its like I said before there are lots of toys in the Megasquirt box so this is the next one I want to play with.
I don't think it's being anal at all. It's being smart and taking advantage of the tools and abilities you have at hand. :2thumbs:
Quote from: Aussiemadonmopars on November 12, 2015, 09:43:53 PM
Quote from: MechTech on November 12, 2015, 09:19:01 PM
My intention over this winter is to put O2 bungs in each header tube 6 inch's or so prior to the collector and run 4 O2 sensors. Air flow is different per cylinder for many reasons so I want to take advantage of being able to adjust fuel per cylinder and see what kind of performance gains I can achieve. I guess that's a bit anal but its like I said before there are lots of toys in the Megasquirt box so this is the next one I want to play with.
I don't think it's being anal at all. It's being smart and taking advantage of the tools and abilities you have at hand. :2thumbs:
i agree, that should be pretty cool. Can't wait to see how you mount and run everything. Also if you see any gains
Hey Guys quick question about the crank sensor wiring.
Coming from the MS the shielded wire has 3 wires inside it. White, black and an uninsulated wire. My sensor (MS hall sensor) has 3 wires, white, black , red. Red should go to 12v, and then join the white and black to their respective colors. What do I do with the uninsulated wire?
Quote from: grnfsh on November 14, 2015, 08:32:03 AM
Hey Guys quick question about the crank sensor wiring.
Coming from the MS the shielded wire has 3 wires inside it. White, black and an uninsulated wire. My sensor (MS hall sensor) has 3 wires, white, black , red. Red should go to 12v, and then join the white and black to their respective colors. What do I do with the uninsulated wire?
That bare wire is the grounded shield wire and should not be hooked up to anything.
:cheers:
Quote from: Black_Bee on November 14, 2015, 05:36:16 PM
Quote from: grnfsh on November 14, 2015, 08:32:03 AM
Hey Guys quick question about the crank sensor wiring.
Coming from the MS the shielded wire has 3 wires inside it. White, black and an uninsulated wire. My sensor (MS hall sensor) has 3 wires, white, black , red. Red should go to 12v, and then join the white and black to their respective colors. What do I do with the uninsulated wire?
That bare wire is the grounded shield wire and should not be hooked up to anything.
:cheers:
ok, that's what I thought the diagram was showing me but I was a bit confused. Thanks!!!!
quick question, where did you guys pull 5v from for the cam sensor? Did you use the same as the TPS wire?
Quote from: grnfsh on November 16, 2015, 10:31:05 AM
quick question, where did you guys pull 5v from for the cam sensor? Did you use the same as the TPS wire?
I used the same 5V line to feed everything that wanted 5V.
:cheers:
ok, guys new topic. Alternators
i want to upgrade my alternator while i'm at it because well, I probably need to adding extra electronics. I've removed the original ignition wiring harness from the car and don't plan to use it again.
I like the 440 Source alternator or something like it. What did you guys who upgraded go with and how did you wire it if you didnt use the factory harness?
Quote from: grnfsh on November 16, 2015, 05:47:01 PM
ok, guys new topic. Alternators
i want to upgrade my alternator while i'm at it because well, I probably need to adding extra electronics. I've removed the original ignition wiring harness from the car and don't plan to use it again.
I like the 440 Source alternator or something like it. What did you guys who upgraded go with and how did you wire it if you didnt use the factory harness?
I used a 440 Source kit, but I am 99% sure that you could just use stock brackets (with a slight massaging) and a store-bought Denso alternator. Also, the kit doesn't come with the pigtail for the alternator for some reason.
The connector I used was this one: http://www.repairconnector.com/products/Mitsubishi-Nippondenso-Alternator-Repair-Connector-3-Wire-Round.html
I fried the alternator that 440 Source sent me and ordered this one from Amazon to replace and its identical. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C5WBHS
I ran a large gauge wire to the starter relay for the output wire, and a couple of smaller sense wires to the same place. I bypassed my dash's ammeter too.
I think its only a 60 amp alternator, but it keeps up with my electrical load just fine so far. Really, other than the in-tank Stealth 340 pump and the EFI related bits (none of it is very power hungry), my car's electrical needs are kind of low as I have no stereo or electric fan (I plan to add both at some point). I do have upgraded headlights which I suppose are a bit of a draw too.
:cheers:
Quote from: grnfsh on November 12, 2015, 07:46:44 AM
My understanding is that you want the o2 sensor in the collector of the header, before it meets the rest of the exhaust. This reduces the possibility of an exhaust leak compromising the reading by introducing external air to the sensor.
That's my understanding as well, but I got lazy.. hah!
Quote from: Black_Bee on November 16, 2015, 07:13:54 PM
Quote from: grnfsh on November 16, 2015, 05:47:01 PM
ok, guys new topic. Alternators
i want to upgrade my alternator while i'm at it because well, I probably need to adding extra electronics. I've removed the original ignition wiring harness from the car and don't plan to use it again.
I like the 440 Source alternator or something like it. What did you guys who upgraded go with and how did you wire it if you didnt use the factory harness?
I used a 440 Source kit, but I am 99% sure that you could just use stock brackets (with a slight massaging) and a store-bought Denso alternator. Also, the kit doesn't come with the pigtail for the alternator for some reason.
The connector I used was this one: http://www.repairconnector.com/products/Mitsubishi-Nippondenso-Alternator-Repair-Connector-3-Wire-Round.html
I fried the alternator that 440 Source sent me and ordered this one from Amazon to replace and its identical. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C5WBHS
I ran a large gauge wire to the starter relay for the output wire, and a couple of smaller sense wires to the same place. I bypassed my dash's ammeter too.
I think its only a 60 amp alternator, but it keeps up with my electrical load just fine so far. Really, other than the in-tank Stealth 340 pump and the EFI related bits (none of it is very power hungry), my car's electrical needs are kind of low as I have no stereo or electric fan (I plan to add both at some point). I do have upgraded headlights which I suppose are a bit of a draw too.
:cheers:
I used a 120amp Denso unit for a John Deere tractor.
It just barely fits from bracket to head! It's a larger unit depth wise, but the price is just right.
:2thumbs:
http://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-AND0221-Alternator-Tractor/dp/B00Q8LROIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447722562&sr=8-1&keywords=denso+120+amp+alternator+John+Deere (http://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-AND0221-Alternator-Tractor/dp/B00Q8LROIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447722562&sr=8-1&keywords=denso+120+amp+alternator+John+Deere)
Quote from: redmist on November 16, 2015, 08:08:24 PM
Quote from: Black_Bee on November 16, 2015, 07:13:54 PM
Quote from: grnfsh on November 16, 2015, 05:47:01 PM
ok, guys new topic. Alternators
i want to upgrade my alternator while i'm at it because well, I probably need to adding extra electronics. I've removed the original ignition wiring harness from the car and don't plan to use it again.
I like the 440 Source alternator or something like it. What did you guys who upgraded go with and how did you wire it if you didnt use the factory harness?
I used a 440 Source kit, but I am 99% sure that you could just use stock brackets (with a slight massaging) and a store-bought Denso alternator. Also, the kit doesn't come with the pigtail for the alternator for some reason.
The connector I used was this one: http://www.repairconnector.com/products/Mitsubishi-Nippondenso-Alternator-Repair-Connector-3-Wire-Round.html
I fried the alternator that 440 Source sent me and ordered this one from Amazon to replace and its identical. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C5WBHS
I ran a large gauge wire to the starter relay for the output wire, and a couple of smaller sense wires to the same place. I bypassed my dash's ammeter too.
I think its only a 60 amp alternator, but it keeps up with my electrical load just fine so far. Really, other than the in-tank Stealth 340 pump and the EFI related bits (none of it is very power hungry), my car's electrical needs are kind of low as I have no stereo or electric fan (I plan to add both at some point). I do have upgraded headlights which I suppose are a bit of a draw too.
:cheers:
I used a 120amp Denso unit for a John Deere tractor.
It just barely fits from bracket to head! It's a larger unit depth wise, but the price is just right.
:2thumbs:
http://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-AND0221-Alternator-Tractor/dp/B00Q8LROIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447722562&sr=8-1&keywords=denso+120+amp+alternator+John+Deere (http://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-AND0221-Alternator-Tractor/dp/B00Q8LROIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447722562&sr=8-1&keywords=denso+120+amp+alternator+John+Deere)
Redmist, you are using your stock brackets with that alt?
A friend of mine used a 440source alternator and had some problem with it. I used a Powermaster 110amp alternator it looks like a GM I used the original brackets with some modification its a single wire unit so I just connected it to the battery bulkhead that I installed in the firewall the battery is in the trunk. I saw an add in the February 2016 addition of Mopar Action it was for Flaming River Industries www.flamingriver.com they have a 150amp and 240 amp alternator single wire so its easy to connect and they are made in the USA
Just checked out he Flaming river units. They are like $600 for the cheap one.
Quote from: grnfsh on November 17, 2015, 08:05:05 AM
Quote from: redmist on November 16, 2015, 08:08:24 PM
Quote from: Black_Bee on November 16, 2015, 07:13:54 PM
Quote from: grnfsh on November 16, 2015, 05:47:01 PM
ok, guys new topic. Alternators
i want to upgrade my alternator while i'm at it because well, I probably need to adding extra electronics. I've removed the original ignition wiring harness from the car and don't plan to use it again.
I like the 440 Source alternator or something like it. What did you guys who upgraded go with and how did you wire it if you didnt use the factory harness?
I used a 440 Source kit, but I am 99% sure that you could just use stock brackets (with a slight massaging) and a store-bought Denso alternator. Also, the kit doesn't come with the pigtail for the alternator for some reason.
The connector I used was this one: http://www.repairconnector.com/products/Mitsubishi-Nippondenso-Alternator-Repair-Connector-3-Wire-Round.html
I fried the alternator that 440 Source sent me and ordered this one from Amazon to replace and its identical. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C5WBHS
I ran a large gauge wire to the starter relay for the output wire, and a couple of smaller sense wires to the same place. I bypassed my dash's ammeter too.
I think its only a 60 amp alternator, but it keeps up with my electrical load just fine so far. Really, other than the in-tank Stealth 340 pump and the EFI related bits (none of it is very power hungry), my car's electrical needs are kind of low as I have no stereo or electric fan (I plan to add both at some point). I do have upgraded headlights which I suppose are a bit of a draw too.
:cheers:
I used a 120amp Denso unit for a John Deere tractor.
It just barely fits from bracket to head! It's a larger unit depth wise, but the price is just right.
:2thumbs:
http://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-AND0221-Alternator-Tractor/dp/B00Q8LROIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447722562&sr=8-1&keywords=denso+120+amp+alternator+John+Deere (http://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-AND0221-Alternator-Tractor/dp/B00Q8LROIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447722562&sr=8-1&keywords=denso+120+amp+alternator+John+Deere)
Redmist, you are using your stock brackets with that alt?
Nope, I am using the brackets for the Denso offered in kit form on the web.
ok i'm trouble shooting here. I am running my composite logger and trying to read a good cam and crank signal. I seem to have a good crank signal but have sync errors. I also cannot find how to select cam signal. Here is a screen shot of my logger
actually along those lines. I dont think I set my cam imput on the board. Is the Jeep cam sensor a Hall/optic or VR?
ok I made some adjustments. Here is what I'm getting now.
You adjusted correctly!
That is a perfect trace map.
ok It still isnt firing.
I switched to semi sequential and wasted spark and still nothing. This is spark only so fuel is there.
Any suggestions?
My train of thought leads me to the coils themselves next in the troubleshooting process. I am assuming they are wired correctly, it didnt seem that difficult. I have all the logic wires going to their respective coil wires in the harness and. That gives me 3 remaining wires coming from each harness. Red, Brown, BlackRed 12v to a fuse (I checked and I have good 12v to the coil)
Black to ground
Brown to ground as well.
Quote from: grnfsh on November 29, 2015, 04:11:49 PM
ok It still isnt firing.
I switched to semi sequential and wasted spark and still nothing. This is spark only so fuel is there.
Any suggestions?
My train of thought leads me to the coils themselves next in the troubleshooting process. I am assuming they are wired correctly, it didnt seem that difficult. I have all the logic wires going to their respective coils and a connector on the harness. That gives me 3 remaining wires coming from each harness. Red, Brown, Black
Red 12v to a fuse (I checked and I have good 12v to the coil)
Black to ground
Brown to ground as well.
Is it trying to fire at all? What is your timing at when checked with a timing light while cranking?
:cheers:
No no fire at all. I haven't been able to visibly check for spark or check timing with a light. I need a friend or wife to crank the engine while I do it. Hopefully I can recruit some help tomorrow.
Quote from: grnfsh on November 29, 2015, 05:02:58 PM
No no fire at all. I haven't been able to visibly check for spark or check timing with a light. I need a friend or wife to crank the engine while I do it. Hopefully I can recruit some help tomorrow.
Get yourself a remote starter switch... they are cheap and then you can do everything you need to under the hood by yourself.
:cheers:
Make sure you have power going to the coils while cranking
yeah I have a trigger somewhere. We moved last year and still have a ton of stuff in boxes. Ill need to dig it up. As for power, Mechtech I did what you had suggested and ran power directly from the battery and put it on a switch. Ill leave it like that at least until I get everything going.
Have you tried the coil test mode? You can audibly hear them click when firing.
:cheers:
Quote from: Black_Bee on November 30, 2015, 05:00:28 PM
Have you tried the coil test mode? You can audibly hear them click when firing.
:cheers:
NO!! how do I do that?
Quote from: grnfsh on November 30, 2015, 08:36:23 PM
NO!! how do I do that?
With key in run mode, in Tuner Studio:
CAN-bus/Testmodes -> Output Test Mode -Inj Spk.
Click Enable Test Mode.
Output interval(ms) = 60
Coil Testing Mode = One
Coil Output to Test = CoilA
Dwell(ms) = 3.5
Click the Start Button in the Coil Testing section.
This tells it to fire CoilA. Go and listen to Coil #1 firing. Then change "Coil Output to Test" to each coil. You can even hook a timing light up to the plug wire and verify with 100% certainty that the coil firing is the one that should be firing (or that any coils are even firing at all), but those coils are loud and make it pretty obvious.
:2thumbs:
awesome, going to give this a go as soon as I get home today.
Thanks, I thought there was a feature like this but couldn't remember.
Yeah, that was really useful for me when I was wiring up the engine. I was able to test both the coils and injectors to make sure nothing is swapped and all are working.
ok coil test ran fine. All coils clicking, That's good news.
But what would be my next step? I suppose I need to make sure my cam wheel and crank wheel are clocked correctly?
The Crank wheel should be set on the compression stroke?
Should the cam sensor be set on compression as well?
Quote from: grnfsh on December 01, 2015, 04:20:20 PM
ok coil test ran fine. All coils clicking, That's good news.
But what would be my next step? I suppose I need to make sure my cam wheel and crank wheel are clocked correctly?
The Crank wheel should be set on the compression stroke?
Should be cam sensor be set on compression as well?
Attach a screen shot of your "Ignition Settings" page... or your MSQ file.
For the cam sensor, the Jeep CPS is a "half moon" sensor, and at TDC#1 you can have the moon either on or off of the sensor. If its off the sensor at TDC intake and on it on TDC exhaust then on the Ignition Settings, set "Level for Phase 1" to "High". This is how I have my cam sensor set. Your cam sensor (if new) should have come with a little "tool" that is used to help you to orient the sensor like this.
For your crank sensor... your sensor needs to line up with the missing tooth a certain number of degrees before TDC... typically in the neighborhood of 4 teeth (40*). This is set in the Ignition settings for "Tooth #1 Angle (deb BTDC)"
:cheers:
Did you check that your injectors are firing and do you have fuel pressure while firing? I'd make sure the fuel pump is OFF when checking injectors (similar to testing coils) so you don't flood the cylinders.
I think you're nearly to having it run. Next step, tuning. I have a new wide-band O2 sensor in a box on my bench waiting to be installed for that. Even though it runs pretty bad, it's never run so smooth or been so responsive.
Quote from: peterro on December 01, 2015, 05:00:11 PM
Did you check that your injectors are firing and do you have fuel pressure while firing? I'd make sure the fuel pump is OFF when checking injectors (similar to testing coils) so you don't flood the cylinders.
I think you're nearly to having it run. Next step, tuning. I have a new wide-band O2 sensor in a box on my bench waiting to be installed for that. Even though it runs pretty bad, it's never run so smooth or been so responsive.
Spark only, I still have the carburetor on it
Also, I'd like to verify my coil to cyl numbers, this is correct ... right?
1 A
8 B
4 C
3 D
6 E
5 F
7 G
2 H
One way to verify if you are firing on the right stroke is pull all of the plugs but cylinder 1. Put your timing light on cylinder 1 and crank the motor the timing light should flash just after you hear the compression of cylinder 1
Here is my crank Trigger sitting pretty much at TDC. The top mark on the indicator is 0. I am using 37 degrees BTDC. Does this look about right?
Looks good... attach a screenshot or your msq.
:cheers:
Just out of interest, how many people are putting a fuse on the outgoing supply of the alternator? I know I will be installing one. :Twocents:
Quote from: Aussiemadonmopars on December 02, 2015, 09:27:42 PM
Just out of interest, how many people are putting a fuse on the outgoing supply of the alternator? I know I will be installing one. :Twocents:
what size fuse?
Quote from: Aussiemadonmopars on December 02, 2015, 09:27:42 PM
Just out of interest, how many people are putting a fuse on the outgoing supply of the alternator? I know I will be installing one. :Twocents:
I'm sure that I should, but I don't have a fuse on the alternator output.
:cheers:
IT RUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:woohoo: :woohoo:
I rotated the cam sensor 180 and sprayed a little starting fluid in her (its cold and hasnt run in a while) and she fired right up. Ran nicely. I didnt have the computer hooked up so I just pretty much shut it down after 10 seconds or so.
Man that felt great!
Thanks everyone who helped me out. Now to add the fuel part to the equation.
great news grnfsh, so you didn't lose to much hair then?
Quote from: MechTech on December 03, 2015, 06:44:10 PM
great news grnfsh, so you didn't lose to much hair then?
LOL.. no it wasnt too bad at all, especially with guys like you to help me out. Its just slow going on my end. My ability to spend time on the project is far and few between.
Ill probably convert my fuel system next. Should be easy enough. I'm going to go with the Tanks Inc set up. I actually already bought the pump kit. While we're on the subject, is there any reason I can't run the Warlboro pump that comes with that kit with a carburetor as long as I have the regulator set correctly? Or would it be too much pressure?
I'm not sure what to say about it mostly because I'm not familiar with it. I would think that if the pressure is set low enough and you have a return line from the regulator to the tank you should be fine.
Quote from: grnfsh on December 03, 2015, 09:33:48 AM
Quote from: Aussiemadonmopars on December 02, 2015, 09:27:42 PM
Just out of interest, how many people are putting a fuse on the outgoing supply of the alternator? I know I will be installing one. :Twocents:
what size fuse?
I've got an 80 amp alternator so I'm going to put in a 60 amp fuse.
Quote from: MechTech on December 03, 2015, 08:10:02 PM
I'm not sure what to say about it mostly because I'm not familiar with it. I would think that if the pressure is set low enough and you have a return line from the regulator to the tank you should be fine.
I think I agree, Aeromotive makes a regulator that can go EFI or Carb, but its $135 and doesnt come with anything. That would allow me to convert JUST the fuel system itself and then build out the EFI. Tank inc has a regulator that comes with a gauge and fittings and its $75 but it doesnt do carb. It might come down to a money saving decision to just wait and do the whole thing at once.
Congrats!!!!
Another one fires!!! Mwhahahaah!!!! *cough!* haha
Just noticed that this thread is almost three years old here in a couple months!!!!! :2thumbs:
I have a D1 Procharger going in my car right now.
Quote from: redmist on December 04, 2015, 11:04:44 PM
Just noticed that this thread is almost three years old here in a couple months!!!!! :2thumbs:
I have a D1 Procharger going in my car right now.
Wow Man, its really starting to get interesting now! Let us know how it works out. Any idea how much boost it will be running?
Quote from: redmist on December 04, 2015, 11:04:44 PM
Just noticed that this thread is almost three years old here in a couple months!!!!! :2thumbs:
I have a D1 Procharger going in my car right now.
This thread has inspired a lot of Mopar guys to take the plunge and attempt the Megasquirt conversion. I would have never done it without this thread.
Can't wait to see your SC go in. That is going to be sweet!
I know it's inspired me. I've read this thread many, many times over and have picked up a couple pieces to the puzzle for my car along the way. Haven't done much more than a lot of reading and research. Got a 3-ring binder for a working file on my Charger. I'm planning on spending some dough on it in this next year, and thought I'd better have the part numbers and ideas readily available. With the recent availability of the Fitech system, I've been weighing options. I "think" I'd rather stay the course with a Megasquirt sequential build, mirroring for the most part what Redmist has done. I have a friend that is having a Fitech system put on his Nova as I type this. Not sure why he's not getting his own hands dirty, but whatever. Looking forward to seeing his results.
Redmist, I remember you saying you had plans for boost. Good to hear you're sticking with the plan. :2thumbs: I have no intentions for the same, but love the idea. Had a friend that used to work for Procharger waaay back when, and had a v6 S-10 Blazer he'd blown and mapped himself. Incredible is all I can say. He's now running a 2002-ish Trans Am, 6 speed, boosted and "tuned within an inch of it's life" per his words.
You mentioned you ended up sourcing a throttle cable from a Caprice. Do you remember approximately what year?
I haven't fully decided, if I go sequential, whether to go with the Edelbrock XT, or the standard Victor 4 barrel efi manifold. One of the things that I was concerned about was the A/C compressor. With the XT, it's pretty much impossible to retain A/C in the stock location. But I found options from either March (serpentine belt, baby yeah!!) or a more affordable option from Bouchillon, that both relocate a Sanden compressor to the passenger side lower. Yay.
First of all I want to thank everyone for posting to this tread, especially Redmist. I've been copying it for 2 years. My problem is how do you keep power to the Megasquirt when cranking? I have a 74 Barracuda. I have started the engine by hot wire but now am trying with the key. Earlier posts say to hook the brown wire from the ballast to keep it hot. But when I do that the car will crank with the key in the run position :icon_smile_angry:
Did you guys add a separate switch anywhere? or do you do it all with the key as I'm wanting to do.
Below are 2 pictures of my install, 2nd with my cold air box.
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k574/74bluefish/engine%20instaled%20with%20megasquirt%20wireing.jpg) (http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/74bluefish/media/engine%20instaled%20with%20megasquirt%20wireing.jpg.html)
(http://i1116.photobucket.com/albums/k574/74bluefish/cuda%20cold%20air%20box%20010.jpg) (http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/74bluefish/media/cuda%20cold%20air%20box%20010.jpg.html)
Which A/C compressor brackets are you using?
Bouchillon brackets, BUT the compressor will hit the intake. I installed the outboard bolt and then rotated the compressor toward the head till i got about an 1/8 inch clearance to the head/valve cover.
I have a 1/2 clearance to the throttle body but the throttle position sensor is 1/8 clearance.
I then had to modify the inboard end of the bracket to pick up the mounting hole on the water pump. Hated to cut up beautiful Bouchillon brackets but it seems pretty strong and made it through my first 20 minute run. I have not driven the car yet.
Quote from: 74bluefish on December 12, 2015, 07:24:59 AM
First of all I want to thank everyone for posting to this tread, especially Redmist. I've been copying it for 2 years. My problem is how do you keep power to the Megasquirt when cranking? I have a 74 Barracuda. I have started the engine by hot wire but now am trying with the key. Earlier posts say to hook the brown wire from the ballast to keep it hot. But when I do that the car will crank with the key in the run position :icon_smile_angry:
Did you guys add a separate switch anywhere? or do you do it all with the key as I'm wanting to do.
One of the ballast wires has power in the run position, and one of the wires has power in the crank position. Together, they cover what you need, so combine them and run them to your ECU's relay. Thats how I did mine, and it starts like a normal car with just the key.
it sounds like you have those wires (or at least one of them) going to the starter relay instead of the ECU relay.
:cheers:
Black Bee said it sounds like you have those wires (or at least one of them) going to the starter relay instead of the ECU relay.
THANKS, you called it exactly right. Tried the brown wire to ECU and had to dig around and found the starter relay wire and it fired right up with the key. :cheers:
When I bought my car it had about 10 wires cut going nowhere and the ballast, electronic ignition, coil, distributor, were all missing. So I have a real mess in wiring, now that it works I can clean up some of the mess.
Thanks once again.
Intercooler fits!
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12369188_10205079413847573_1438115924267498819_n.jpg?oh=71f4f26c8fab47f842ce28a4b3b3d1f5&oe=57216A65)
Quote from: redmist on December 12, 2015, 09:06:36 PM
Intercooler fits!
Nice!!! Can't wait to see the results! :drool5:
:popcrn:
Well here's post #1 for this forum.
As many have said. Great thread here with lots of info.
Also appreciate it has not died open ended like many others.
Big :2thumbs: to redmist for continuing.
I have a build thread at another house and was told of this thread by some over there.
Challenger here and in build of a twin turbo 360, MS3X, ls coils. I expect all previous input will help guide me.
Jumped in with both feet knowing next to nothing and figured I'd find out eventually if I sink or swim.lol
Now for my help...
Yes you can set up a return style fuel system on your carb using a Walbro pump. Aeromotive has a regulator that will run either high or low pressures with just a spring change. My ret system is with carb for now.
-edit-
redmist
Got to love the spare real estate these cars have. I have 2 up there.
Mike
Oops!
Troy
WOW thanks for the heads up. That's my next purchase too, I may do the same thing.
Just checked, $210 on summit, $245 on Tanks inc for the Cuda tank. WOW :2thumbs: ITs like getting the sending unit for free.
BOUGHT
Tank was out of stock, they must drop ship it. no biggie though, i'm not in a rush
Thanks again dude!!
Quote from: Troy on December 17, 2015, 04:24:34 PM
Gonna slightly hijack your thread because this is most relevant here...
I just ordered a Tanks Inc. tank on Summit for $95 less than directly from Tanks Inc. I also verified this same price for Challengers but nothing else. I don't know what the normal shipping charge is but it's $9.75 and there's an oversize fee of $9.75 as well through Summit (but they drop ship it from Tanks any way). And I had to pay tax since I'm in Ohio. The other Tanks products all seemed to be priced similarly to buying direct so I held off on the pump and sending unit. The Charger tank is on back order but the estimate said December 18th.
Troy
Sorry to burst your bubble Troy but that price is for the non efi tank. The product code for the efi tank is TCR9AT and the regular is TCR9A. On their website the standard TCR9A tank is $150.
Standard tank
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=395/category_id=68/mode=prod/prd395.htm
EFI tank
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=484/category_id=146/mode=prod/prd484.htm
Quote from: WHITE AND RED 69 on December 17, 2015, 06:03:04 PM
Quote from: Troy on December 17, 2015, 04:24:34 PM
Gonna slightly hijack your thread because this is most relevant here...
I just ordered a Tanks Inc. tank on Summit for $95 less than directly from Tanks Inc. I also verified this same price for Challengers but nothing else. I don't know what the normal shipping charge is but it's $9.75 and there's an oversize fee of $9.75 as well through Summit (but they drop ship it from Tanks any way). And I had to pay tax since I'm in Ohio. The other Tanks products all seemed to be priced similarly to buying direct so I held off on the pump and sending unit. The Charger tank is on back order but the estimate said December 18th.
Troy
Sorry to burst your bubble Troy but that price is for the non efi tank. The product code for the efi tank is TCR9AT and the regular is TCR9A. On their website the standard TCR9A tank is $150.
Standard tank
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=395/category_id=68/mode=prod/prd395.htm
EFI tank
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=484/category_id=146/mode=prod/prd484.htm
Well, shoot. I didn't realize they sold non-EFI tanks! I'll edit that back out...
Troy
The TCR9A-T doesn't come up when searching under 1968 Charger but it does come up using the part #. Price is $210.97.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tnk-tcr9a-t
They caught my order and swapped out the parts.
Troy
you are still saving money over what Tanks Inc charges
Yep! Heck, the non-EFI tanks are cheaper than most other options (Spectre, etc.) too so if you just wanted to get rid of the rusty, dented, gummed up original I don't think it's a bad way to go.
Troy
Quote from: 74bluefish on December 12, 2015, 07:24:59 AM
First of all I want to thank everyone for posting to this tread, especially Redmist. I've been copying it for 2 years. My problem is how do you keep power to the Megasquirt when cranking? I have a 74 Barracuda. I have started the engine by hot wire but now am trying with the key. Earlier posts say to hook the brown wire from the ballast to keep it hot. But when I do that the car will crank with the key in the run position :icon_smile_angry:
Did you guys add a separate switch anywhere? or do you do it all with the key as I'm wanting to do.
Below are 2 pictures of my install, 2nd with my cold air box.
I wired a separate switch just to get the car running. I figure Ill work out getting it on the key later on.
Quote from: Troy on December 17, 2015, 07:21:58 PM
The TCR9A-T doesn't come up when searching under 1968 Charger but it does come up using the part #. Price is $210.97.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tnk-tcr9a-t
They caught my order and swapped out the parts.
Troy
Nice! $210 is a good deal too. I paid full price on mine like a sucker! :lol:
Ross Machine Racing says he is closer to making chips on this intake. I thought I would post a picture to see how much interest there is in it. This is a 440 version a 383 version should not be far behind. One of the advantages of this intake is that it will have more consistent airflow from cylinder to cylinder because it is all CNC machined nothing cast all billet no aluminum sheet. The throttle body that is mounted on the intake is 5" diameter.
HOLY CRAP that is awesome!! I'd be in, how much?
I know I want one. Ill try to get some idea of the cost
Are they making it themselves? Need a machine shop?? :popcrn:
I would imagine that would be about a $1500 intake!
Quote from: redmist on January 04, 2016, 11:12:54 PM
Are they making it themselves? Need a machine shop?? :popcrn:
I would imagine that would be about a $1500 intake!
Looks like Ill be digging for more parts to sell to dig up funds. Either that or prostitute myself.
Ross Machine Racing said it hopefully be around the $1500 mark I am going to start looking for what I can sell also.
redmist Ross will be making them they have the machines its the time that's the problem.
Mech Tech, on the crank trigger kit, is there any reason you don't recommend the setup for a steel balancer? I have had everything to put my build together for nearly a year waiting on jerry for Superior design to finish his crank trigger setups. Any recommendations on this and what it would cost I already have the ford sensor. I would love to have this thing up and running on ms3x by spring but without a crank kit I'm stalled still.
Quote from: Zero4luck on January 06, 2016, 11:30:22 AM
Mech Tech, on the crank trigger kit, is there any reason you don't recommend the setup for a steel balancer? I have had everything to put my build together for nearly a year waiting on jerry for Superior design to finish his crank trigger setups. Any recommendations on this and what it would cost I already have the ford sensor. I would love to have this thing up and running on ms3x by spring but without a crank kit I'm stalled still.
I have the same kit as mech tech, I didnt actually test it with the steel damper, but I think because the wheel sits right up flush with the damper the sensor may have difficulty picking up the teeth on the wheel. also, my stock damper had a ridge on it that kept the wheel offset away from the damper about 1/8 inch. While this would have likely been beneficial to the sensor, it offset my pulley too much. I suppose you could space out the other pulleys to compensate. I switched to the ATI damper which is a great damper, its just pricey
You could give it a try to see if the sensor picks up the teeth or not first before you buy the damper.
I didn't think about that situation. Hopefully he will weigh in on it later and pm the info or share it on here. Thanks again
Quote from: MechTech on January 05, 2016, 09:57:33 PM
Ross Machine Racing said it hopefully be around the $1500 mark I am going to start looking for what I can sell also.
redmist Ross will be making them they have the machines its the time that's the problem.
Very cool looking part for sure!
$1500 might be a bit spendy for me, but if anyone goes this route and wants to sell a pro-flo xt, I'm interested. :D
Quote from: Zero4luck on January 06, 2016, 11:30:22 AM
Mech Tech, on the crank trigger kit, is there any reason you don't recommend the setup for a steel balancer? I have had everything to put my build together for nearly a year waiting on jerry for Superior design to finish his crank trigger setups. Any recommendations on this and what it would cost I already have the ford sensor. I would love to have this thing up and running on ms3x by spring but without a crank kit I'm stalled still.
I waited for Jerry's kit for about a month this past spring when he first announced it. It was always a day or two away from having pics of it, but it never was. Not his fault, I'm sure everything else gets in the way of such a niche product.
I bought a 36-1 wheel from DIYAutotune.com for $30 and had a machine shop open it up and weld it to my stock crank pulley (to the position I specified) for like $40. Added the Jeep crank sensor for $30 too. I figured that when/if Jerry's kit comes out and is significantly nicer, I could afford to lose the $100 I had into my setup, if it meant that I had the car up and running sooner. Now that it is running, I really cant imagine myself ever removing it.
:cheers:
Hi zero4luck grnfsh is right I don't know that it wont work but I'm concerned that it wont and I just want people buying this setup to be aware of a potential problem if you are using a steel damper. The sensor bracket is designed to be used with the DIY Hall Sensor. I have 5 sets almost complete 3 of which I believe are sold so if you are interested send me a PM. When Ross gets one of those done Ill have an intake for sale. Because of all the cool design features he is doing to this intake I'm sure it will make more horsepower than the pro flo XT
Quote from: MechTech on January 05, 2016, 09:57:33 PM
Ross Machine Racing said it hopefully be around the $1500 mark I am going to start looking for what I can sell also.
redmist Ross will be making them they have the machines its the time that's the problem.
I might know a guy with a couple Makino A51NX Horizontals on a 24 pallet cell that could possibly have time. :D
That sounds like a sweet machine, how many tools does the magazine hold?
Quote from: MechTech on November 12, 2015, 09:19:01 PM
My intention over this winter is to put O2 bungs in each header tube 6 inch's or so prior to the collector and run 4 O2 sensors. Air flow is different per cylinder for many reasons so I want to take advantage of being able to adjust fuel per cylinder and see what kind of performance gains I can achieve. I guess that's a bit anal but its like I said before there are lots of toys in the Megasquirt box so this is the next one I want to play with.
Back to the O2 sensor topic. Are you running wide or narrow band, if wide band what controllers are you using?
Quote from: redmist on November 16, 2015, 08:08:24 PM
Quote from: Black_Bee on November 16, 2015, 07:13:54 PM
Quote from: grnfsh on November 16, 2015, 05:47:01 PM
ok, guys new topic. Alternators
i want to upgrade my alternator while i'm at it because well, I probably need to adding extra electronics. I've removed the original ignition wiring harness from the car and don't plan to use it again.
I like the 440 Source alternator or something like it. What did you guys who upgraded go with and how did you wire it if you didnt use the factory harness?
I used a 440 Source kit, but I am 99% sure that you could just use stock brackets (with a slight massaging) and a store-bought Denso alternator. Also, the kit doesn't come with the pigtail for the alternator for some reason.
The connector I used was this one: http://www.repairconnector.com/products/Mitsubishi-Nippondenso-Alternator-Repair-Connector-3-Wire-Round.html
I fried the alternator that 440 Source sent me and ordered this one from Amazon to replace and its identical. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C5WBHS
I ran a large gauge wire to the starter relay for the output wire, and a couple of smaller sense wires to the same place. I bypassed my dash's ammeter too.
I think its only a 60 amp alternator, but it keeps up with my electrical load just fine so far. Really, other than the in-tank Stealth 340 pump and the EFI related bits (none of it is very power hungry), my car's electrical needs are kind of low as I have no stereo or electric fan (I plan to add both at some point). I do have upgraded headlights which I suppose are a bit of a draw too.
:cheers:
I used a 120amp Denso unit for a John Deere tractor.
It just barely fits from bracket to head! It's a larger unit depth wise, but the price is just right.
:2thumbs:
http://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-AND0221-Alternator-Tractor/dp/B00Q8LROIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447722562&sr=8-1&keywords=denso+120+amp+alternator+John+Deere (http://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-AND0221-Alternator-Tractor/dp/B00Q8LROIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447722562&sr=8-1&keywords=denso+120+amp+alternator+John+Deere)
Redmist, is that alt a one wire?
Quote from: grnfsh on January 14, 2016, 10:06:39 AM
Quote from: redmist on November 16, 2015, 08:08:24 PM
I used a 120amp Denso unit for a John Deere tractor.
It just barely fits from bracket to head! It's a larger unit depth wise, but the price is just right.
:2thumbs:
http://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-AND0221-Alternator-Tractor/dp/B00Q8LROIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447722562&sr=8-1&keywords=denso+120+amp+alternator+John+Deere (http://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-AND0221-Alternator-Tractor/dp/B00Q8LROIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447722562&sr=8-1&keywords=denso+120+amp+alternator+John+Deere)
Redmist, is that alt a one wire?
According to the link it's internally regulated, so yep!
Quote from: funknut on January 14, 2016, 10:55:56 AM
Quote from: grnfsh on January 14, 2016, 10:06:39 AM
Quote from: redmist on November 16, 2015, 08:08:24 PM
I used a 120amp Denso unit for a John Deere tractor.
It just barely fits from bracket to head! It's a larger unit depth wise, but the price is just right.
:2thumbs:
http://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-AND0221-Alternator-Tractor/dp/B00Q8LROIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447722562&sr=8-1&keywords=denso+120+amp+alternator+John+Deere (http://www.amazon.com/DB-Electrical-AND0221-Alternator-Tractor/dp/B00Q8LROIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1447722562&sr=8-1&keywords=denso+120+amp+alternator+John+Deere)
Redmist, is that alt a one wire?
According to the link it's internally regulated, so yep!
oh, so internally regulated = One wire? Got it, thanks
hi grnfsh
Here's a link that might help you out (http://wiki.efihacks.com/index.php?title=Bosch_LSU_4.9_vs_LSU_4.2). I'm using the Innovate LC-2 if you look on eBay some of the descriptions include the Bosch LSU 4.9 sensor I believe the LSU 4.9 is faster and more accurate than what most of them are LSU 4.2. The LC-2 is easy to install just 3 wires power, ground and signal. Some of the units on eBay don't include a gage so be careful there.
Thanks, I was looking at the innovate LC-2 kit. that is likely what Ill go with
Quote from: MechTech on January 14, 2016, 07:59:33 PM
hi grnfsh
Some of the units on eBay don't include a gage so be careful there.
Why do I need a gauge? Wont I be able to read the O2 sensors through Megasquirt?
Thought I'd share a progress pic to help motivate those who are still in progress. I powder coated my valve covers, the color doesnt quite match but then again the paint on the engine is old. I'm just mocking everything up and making sure the hood cleared (Barely) Looks cool huh?
A gage is nice so that you can see immediately what's going on when the motor is not running right. Its tough to catch looking over at your laptop while driving.
Quote from: grnfsh on January 15, 2016, 04:35:15 PM
Thought I'd share a progress pic to help motivate those who are still in progress. I powder coated my valve covers, the color doesnt quite match but then again the paint on the engine is old. I'm just mocking everything up and making sure the hood cleared (Barely) Looks cool huh?
Looks killer! :drool5:
Quote from: MechTech on January 15, 2016, 05:35:34 PM
A gage is nice so that you can see immediately what's going on when the motor is not running right. Its tough to catch looking over at your laptop while driving.
ok I see what you mean. I can see the benefit. Can you run both o2 sensors off one gauge?
That would take a fancy switch or you could move the connector from one to the other. What I would suggest is using the one so you can see what its doing like when you push the pedal down and it stumbles you can look immediately and see that its lean but run the datalog and you can compare one side to the other there. If you are running both sides make sure they are both the same sensor Bosch LSU4.9 or LSU4.2
Hey guys, remember me from a couple of years ago, back when this thread only had a few pages? It took me a couple of hours to read through all the posts that had come along since I dropped off. Anyhow, I finally ripped my car apart a couple of weeks ago and am starting this project! Woot woot!
I think I found a good solution to the cheesy underhood relay panel. Bussmann makes these units, and I think they're used primarily by aftermarket OEMs such as fire truck and ambulance body manufacturers. They're offered in many configurations, with as many as 5 micro relays with space for fusing. The cover has a watertight seal. The terminals, which enter from the back, are Weatherpack, which are watertight as well.
http://www.waytekwire.com/item/46345/Cooper-Bussmann-15303-5-2-4-Mini-Fuse-Panel-/
This is the one I'm using. It will have 5 relays, each power circuit fused separately. It's a little confusing at first, because you have to buy the module, the mounting bracket, a supply of Weatherpack terminals, a supply of Weatherpack seals... and so forth. You also need a crimping tool for the Weatherpack terminals, which is around $100. But, I already had a MSD ratcheting spark plug tool, so I bought a set of dies for it that are designed for Weatherpack connectors. The dies just came in today; I'll let you know how they work out. I bout a bunch of extra Weatherpack terminals so I could practice.
I'm attaching a photo of this thing under my hood... obviously not wired yet.
Congratulations on the recent progress, :2thumbs: I know it was huge for me to finally get the project really off the ground and running.
Well, I'm plugging along with my installation. Today I pulled both wiring harnesses through their respective holes in the firewall and began figuring out which wires (that I'm actually using) will follow the passenger side valve cover, which will follow the drivers side valve cover, and which will travel across the firewall. Then it dawned on me: I could make the wiring a lot neater if I pulled every wire back into the car and used the passenger side firewall hole for wires that will travel the passenger side valve cover, and the drivers side firewall hole for wires that will travel the drivers valve cover and across the firewall to the drivers side. Yes, it will be a little of a rat's nest behind the glove box, but better there than under the hood where everyone can see it.
Has anyone else done it this way? Can anyone think of a downside?
Hi Jim G
I'm a Jim G also and also drive a 67 Coronet. I've attached a link to a video of my car at MIR from this past October. When I get to where I miss driving the car I pull up this video and get a kick out of it every time. :popcrn: https://youtu.be/xeSTrIzJVuA
Very cool, MechTech! It's nice to see completed MS projects actually moving under their own power... it's what inspires me when I get bogged down or lazy with my project.
Quote from: JimG on February 11, 2016, 05:45:16 PM
Well, I'm plugging along with my installation. Today I pulled both wiring harnesses through their respective holes in the firewall and began figuring out which wires (that I'm actually using) will follow the passenger side valve cover, which will follow the drivers side valve cover, and which will travel across the firewall. Then it dawned on me: I could make the wiring a lot neater if I pulled every wire back into the car and used the passenger side firewall hole for wires that will travel the passenger side valve cover, and the drivers side firewall hole for wires that will travel the drivers valve cover and across the firewall to the drivers side. Yes, it will be a little of a rat's nest behind the glove box, but better there than under the hood where everyone can see it.
Has anyone else done it this way? Can anyone think of a downside?
I more or less did the same thing you did only I just did one large hole. I cut the plastic sheeth off all together, it kept getting in the way.
OK, I have a couple of wiring/fusing questions:
For those of you using the truck coils, did you have just one 12 volt supply circuit/relay for all 8 coils? What ampere rating fuse did you use?
For those of you using the Ford Motorsport injectors, did you have just one 12 volt supply circuit/relay for all 8 injectors? What ampere rating fuse did you use?
My relay box has 5 slots for relays. Two for the circuits mentioned above, the fuel pump, and the combined start/run circuit to power the Megasquirt leaves one spare... and that will probably get used before I'm done.
Thanks!
Hi Jim G
I am using 4 fuses 5amps each 2 for the truck coils and 2 for the injectors. The fuses are plugged into one fuse block which is powered by one 40amp relay.
Quote from: MechTech on February 13, 2016, 09:58:30 AM
Hi Jim G
I am using 4 fuses 5amps each 2 for the truck coils and 2 for the injectors. The fuses are plugged into one fuse block which is powered by one 40amp relay.
I wired mine the same way. :2thumbs:
:cheers:
Hi All
I have modified the diameter of the trigger wheel making it 1 inch larger in diameter to accommodate anyone who is using a steel vibration damper. None have been made at this point. If you are interested send me a PM. The original size wheel will still be available.
Quote from: grnfsh on November 28, 2015, 11:22:22 AM
ok i'm trouble shooting here. I am running my composite logger and trying to read a good cam and crank signal. I seem to have a good crank signal but have sync errors. I also cannot find how to select cam signal. Here is a screen shot of my logger
I'm having the same problem as GrnFsh had with regard to the cam signal, as shown in his screen capture. Is this a software configuration problem, or did I miss a jumper? My notes tell me tat I installed JP7, although I have not ripped back into the ECU to look.
Thanks!
Are you running the redmist Jeep cam position pickup? I looked back on this blog and at page 5 redmist attached a picture of his composite logger with an explanation. It seems to me something is wrong with your cam position sensor or setting. It should run high for one crank rev. and low for one crank rev.
It's been a while since I have played with the software, but I think under options, you have a way to show both sides of the window (High/Low) and yours is just showing the side it is using the sense. That is just fine! I think you have a tone of loss on your crank trigger though.
Quote from: redmist on March 01, 2016, 06:17:26 PM
It's been a while since I have played with the software, but I think under options, you have a way to show both sides of the window (High/Low) and yours is just showing the side it is using the sense. That is just fine! I think you have a tone of loss on your crank trigger though.
Thanks guys!
Redmist, I re-posted GrnFsh's old screen capture because I was seeing the same thing and it was easier. I'm sure I'll be posting some of my own soon soon.
Quote from: JimG on March 01, 2016, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: redmist on March 01, 2016, 06:17:26 PM
It's been a while since I have played with the software, but I think under options, you have a way to show both sides of the window (High/Low) and yours is just showing the side it is using the sense. That is just fine! I think you have a tone of loss on your crank trigger though.
Thanks guys!
Redmist, I re-posted GrnFsh's old screen capture because I was seeing the same thing and it was easier. I'm sure I'll be posting some of my own soon soon.
My issue I was having was my Cam sensor was 180 out. I flipped it just like you would a distributor, pull it out, rotate the bottom 180, put it back it. After I did that it fired right up.
Quote from: grnfsh on March 02, 2016, 09:45:00 AM
Quote from: JimG on March 01, 2016, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: redmist on March 01, 2016, 06:17:26 PM
It's been a while since I have played with the software, but I think under options, you have a way to show both sides of the window (High/Low) and yours is just showing the side it is using the sense. That is just fine! I think you have a tone of loss on your crank trigger though.
Thanks guys!
Redmist, I re-posted GrnFsh's old screen capture because I was seeing the same thing and it was easier. I'm sure I'll be posting some of my own soon soon.
My issue I was having was my Cam sensor was 180 out. I flipped it just like you would a distributor, pull it out, rotate the bottom 180, put it back it. After I did that it fired right up.
GrnFsh, I was referring to your post about 6 months back, when you were just getting a blip on the Composite Logger from the cam sensor. You quickly posted another screen shot that showed your cam signal staying on for one full crankshaft revolution. I think we might be talking about two separate issues you had going on. Anyhow, I'm where you were with the blip from the cam sensor. I'm looking for the solution that Redmist posted above, but so far I haven't stumbled into that setting.
Thanks!
Quote from: JimG on March 02, 2016, 10:34:25 AM
Quote from: grnfsh on March 02, 2016, 09:45:00 AM
Quote from: JimG on March 01, 2016, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: redmist on March 01, 2016, 06:17:26 PM
It's been a while since I have played with the software, but I think under options, you have a way to show both sides of the window (High/Low) and yours is just showing the side it is using the sense. That is just fine! I think you have a tone of loss on your crank trigger though.
Thanks guys!
Redmist, I re-posted GrnFsh's old screen capture because I was seeing the same thing and it was easier. I'm sure I'll be posting some of my own soon soon.
My issue I was having was my Cam sensor was 180 out. I flipped it just like you would a distributor, pull it out, rotate the bottom 180, put it back it. After I did that it fired right up.
GrnFsh, I was referring to your post about 6 months back, when you were just getting a blip on the Composite Logger from the cam sensor. You quickly posted another screen shot that showed your cam signal staying on for one full crankshaft revolution. I think we might be talking about two separate issues you had going on. Anyhow, I'm where you were with the blip from the cam sensor. I'm looking for the solution that Redmist posted above, but so far I haven't stumbled into that setting.
Thanks!
Do you have the registered version of TunerStudio, or the free one? I think that option only shows up on the registered version.
Paul
Do you have the registered version of TunerStudio, or the free one? I think that option only shows up on the registered version.
Paul
[/quote]
Still using the free version. Once I get the car running, I planned to upgrade to get the auto tune feature; maybe I need to do it now.
Thanks!
I also am in about the same position as a few of you.
Have what appears to be a good crank signal but cam not correct. Changed to wasted spark COP to temporarily remove it from equation.
Currently looking into why I am not getting coils to spark off. Even thru the test proceedure.
Throwing this out just for you all to see there is more of us that constantly revert back to this thread for help.
Redmist, did you get that Procharger on and going yet?
Mike.
Quote from: YellowThumper on March 02, 2016, 11:12:51 PM
Currently looking into why I am not getting coils to spark off. Even thru the test proceedure.
Throwing this out just for you all to see there is more of us that constantly revert back to this thread for help.
Mike.
Are you using the 7-pin GM connector that bundles all the coil wires for a single side of the engine? If so, be sure pin H has 12 volts on it while you're trying the test, be sure pin A is grounded to the engine block, and be sure pin E is connected to the Low Reference/Sensor Ground (pin 7 on the MS3 connector, black with a white stripe if you used the conventional wire color code). If all this is good, I assume you could touch 5 volts (MS3 pin 26, gray) on coil pins B, C, F, and G to see if the coils fire. I say I assume because mine worked the first time I tried it, but if it hadn't, I would have tried this.
This is fresh in my mind, as I just went through it a few days ago.
Is the Jeep cam sensor Open Collector Hall or just Hall? JP 7 should be in place for one, and not in place for the other. Plus, the two potentiometers are set differently depending on which you have.
I've tried it both ways, and I just get one blip from the cam sensor for every 70 crankshaft pulses no matter what I try. I also upgraded from the free software and I'm still trying to find a setting there that might fix it.
Thanks!
Quote from: JimG on March 03, 2016, 02:42:45 PM
Is the Jeep cam sensor Open Collector Hall or just Hall? JP 7 should be in place for one, and not in place for the other. Plus, the two potentiometers are set differently depending on which you have.
I've tried it both ways, and I just get one blip from the cam sensor for every 70 crankshaft pulses no matter what I try. I also upgraded from the free software and I'm still trying to find a setting there that might fix it.
Thanks!
I believe that its the checkbox "Render Including Non Interrupt Data" on the options button on the High Speed Loggers tab.
:cheers:
Quote from: JimG on March 03, 2016, 01:40:58 PM
Quote from: YellowThumper on March 02, 2016, 11:12:51 PM
Currently looking into why I am not getting coils to spark off. Even thru the test procedure.
Throwing this out just for you all to see there is more of us that constantly revert back to this thread for help.
Mike.
Are you using the 7-pin GM connector that bundles all the coil wires for a single side of the engine? If so, be sure pin H has 12 volts on it while you're trying the test, be sure pin A is grounded to the engine block, and be sure pin E is connected to the Low Reference/Sensor Ground (pin 7 on the MS3 connector, black with a white stripe if you used the conventional wire color code). If all this is good, I assume you could touch 5 volts (MS3 pin 26, gray) on coil pins B, C, F, and G to see if the coils fire. I say I assume because mine worked the first time I tried it, but if it hadn't, I would have tried this.
This is fresh in my mind, as I just went through it a few days ago.
Thanks for the tips and help.
Yes I am using the GM connector setup.
Initially I had the signal return grounded to just ground. It took you, Greenfish and another on a different forum replying to finally get the bulb in my brain to light up. I now have the signal wires connected to the pin #7 (black/white tracer). It still appears now to still not be working. Prior to (now corrected #7) I tied them into another coil ground (pin #36). Now wondering if I have done damage to the coils based on something I may have done. I will test them as you have suggested. I also have one more jy take out coil that has not been used/tested I may try also. The 5v test you suggested sounds like promising direction.
As for having the full 12 volts, I should. Power is coming direct from a fused relay setup pulled right off the battery. A separate setup from the car's factory harness. I will also test it under load not confirmed 12v with tester.
Thanks again.
Will post up when I sort thru more...
Mike.
Yellow Thumper, at this point I think I would try what I said earlier: make sure 12 volts and ground are on the correct pins of the 7-pin GM connector, signal ground is on the correct pin of the 7-pin GM connector, then take +5 volts from the Megasquirt (gray wire, pin 26) and briefly touch the respective pins on the 7-pin GM connector and make the individual coils fire, verifying their function with a timing light.
Do you have the schematic diagram for the 7-pin connector? If not I can scan if for you and post it, although I believe it can be found somewhere in the 29 pages of this thread. Anyhow, testing the coils can be done; you shouldn't have to guess about their condition.
Good luck!
Quote from: Black_Bee on March 04, 2016, 12:06:52 PM
I believe that its the checkbox "Render Including Non Interrupt Data" on the options button on the High Speed Loggers tab.
:cheers:
Thanks Black Bee. I tried that, and I'm just as confused as ever. I'm attaching two screenshots of the same log; one with the box checked and one with it not checked. I cannot get a log that looks like many I've seen here - that is, with spikes for the crank pulses and a square wave for the cam pulse.
I'm really not sure if there's a problem with the megasquirt, with the software configuration, or if I just don't understand how to interpret the log.
Thanks!
Quote from: JimG on March 06, 2016, 09:40:24 PM
Thanks Black Bee. I tried that, and I'm just as confused as ever. I'm attaching two screenshots of the same log; one with the box checked and one with it not checked. I cannot get a log that looks like many I've seen here - that is, with spikes for the crank pulses and a square wave for the cam pulse.
I'm really not sure if there's a problem with the megasquirt, with the software configuration, or if I just don't understand how to interpret the log.
Thanks!
Sorry about that bad advice there, I went through the same issue that you are, and I would swear that is what fixed it for me. Have you captured a new log since enabling that option, or just loaded an older log?
:cheers:
Quote from: Black_Bee on March 07, 2016, 03:54:30 PM
Sorry about that bad advice there, I went through the same issue that you are, and I would swear that is what fixed it for me. Have you captured a new log since enabling that option, or just loaded an older log?
:cheers:
No worries Black Bee, I appreciate your willingness to help. Since I have no new ideas, and I've already tried all my old ideas, I haven't cranked on it any more to generate any new logs. I'm really close to being ready to try to start it (other than this nagging issue) so I think I'm just gonna try to get it running in wasted spark/batch fire and come back to this problem later... unless the silver bullet shows up here.
Thanks!
Jim
Well my engine runs... barely.
I finally gave up on the cam sensor and set it for Wasted COP and batch fire.
It's running very rich and it won't idle, but at least it runs.
Yay... I guess.
Quote from: JimG on March 08, 2016, 04:15:22 PM
Well my engine runs... barely.
I finally gave up on the cam sensor and set it for Wasted COP and batch fire.
It's running very rich and it won't idle, but at least it runs.
Yay... I guess.
The hardest part is done now! :cheers:
A little bit of tuning at it will all be worth it. Do you have an MS file to share by chance? and what is your engine combination?
Ryan
Quote from: JimG on March 08, 2016, 04:15:22 PM
Well my engine runs... barely.
I finally gave up on the cam sensor and set it for Wasted COP and batch fire.
It's running very rich and it won't idle, but at least it runs.
Yay... I guess.
Thats great that its up and running now! :2thumbs:
I forget if you have mentioned it... did you take off the cap and verify that your cam sensor orientation is correct?
Thanks Redmist and Black Bee!
Redmist, let me clean up at least one known problem before I post the admittedly elementary startup msq. I'm pretty sure my MAP sensor isn't calibrated correctly. The Megasquirt gauge cluster gauge for the MAP only seems to read kPa, not the more-familiar-to-me in. hg, making it hard for me to tell at a glance the current reading. I did some calculations and came up with a few equivalents, and a cursory look tells me that something is wrong. Compounding this problem is the fact that I seem to have lent my Mityvac vacuum pump to someone and cannot remember who it was... gotta go buy or borrow another one so I can properly check the calibration. Like you, I'm using an external MAP and am attempting to use the mainboard MAP as a BARO sensor. Anyhow, I'm thinking that gross miscalibration of the MAP could cause this condition. It is so bad that I had to change the required fuel (telling the MS that I had much larger injectors than I actually do) to get it to even run this well. I know this is an improper tuning method, and as soon as I find the real problem I'll put the required fuel back where it belongs.
Black Bee, regarding the CAM sensor: I looked back over this thread and found the instructions for setting the CAM sensor, which I need to thoroughly re-read because they weren't entirely clear to me after one reading. But I'm thinking that even if the CAM sensor is clocked wrong, I still should have a square wave pulse for one crankshaft revolution, and then it should be off for one full crankshaft revolution, even if the square wave is timed wrong to the crankshaft. Unless I grossly misunderstand how it works, I need to get that problem addressed before I worry about clocking. Or, maybe I misunderstand how it works.
Engine is 493 CID (4.15" stroke, 4.35" bore) 10.9 CR, Eddy-heads, with an old school MP .509" cam (which I plan to replace with something modern next winter).
Thanks for all the help!
Quote from: JimG on March 08, 2016, 04:15:22 PM
Well my engine runs... barely.
I finally gave up on the cam sensor and set it for Wasted COP and batch fire.
It's running very rich and it won't idle, but at least it runs.
Yay... I guess.
are you on fuel also? or did you keep the carb ?
setting the jeep cam sensor.
The music in the back ground is annoying but here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV7ase3dcoc
Grnfsh:
Fuel and spark. I jumped in the deep end head first!
Thanks for the video link!
First ride today. Switched it over to sequential after that and got it dialed in and running running pretty good on the highway... I'm trying to get the map close before trying any autotuning. Still not getting a proper looking cam signal on the composite logger, but since the thing runs I'm thinking I need to learn more about the composite logger. You have to beat the thing with a whip to get it started when it's hot... I'll re-read Redmist's explanation of what he did to fix this. I know he used the Mega Log Viewer and I haven't learned how to use that yet, either. I also can't get closed-loop idle to work (I have a stepper IAC, so if anyone else is using a stepper and has this feature working, maybe we can talk).
With the exception of the hot start problem and idle speed that wanders, it now runs a little better than it did with the carb, but I didn't nearly get there in the 30 minutes that I've seen some people claim. I know I'll eventually like it, but I think I need to do something else for a few days!
Glad you got her running Jim :2thumbs:
Hope to be there very soon on fuel. I'm not far out.
[quote , but I didn't nearly get there in the 30 minutes that I've seen some people claim. I know I'll eventually like it, but I think I need to do something else for a few days!
[/quote
This is where I am at the moment. Had to take a step back to regain focus. Needed to have measurable progress so just jumped over to some miscellaneous changes like relocating rear bumper tight to the body.
Will be back at fire again soon.
X2 on glad you have it going. Hearing even the little success stories help.
Mike
hey Fellas,
on the throttle cable, the end fitting that goes into the TB. Did you have to change your's and if so what did you use. I have the same TB as Redmist and bought a Lokar cable. It came with a fitting that doesnt work so I need a barrel fitting but can't seem to find one. You would think this was an easy fix. :brickwall:
Quote from: grnfsh on March 22, 2016, 09:28:10 AM
hey Fellas,
on the throttle cable, the end fitting that goes into the TB. Did you have to change your's and if so what did you use. I have the same TB as Redmist and bought a Lokar cable. It came with a fitting that doesnt work so I need a barrel fitting but can't seem to find one. You would think this was an easy fix. :brickwall:
I used some sorta junk yard cable out of a GM car of some sort... Hope that helps! LOL!!!
I think it was a Saturn.
Here is how I fixed my hot start issue. Keep in mind this was MY issue, you may have something else going on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GZUNXc3pEk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GZUNXc3pEk)
Ha, I used a hood release cable from some full size Chevrolet truck. Don't know what year, 80's?
So I think i figured it out. I just drilled the hole out in the linkage a little bit.
Great thread, and great info. I'm looking for one of these cam sensor adapters... hopefully SD Concepts can help me out.
GrnFsh asked me for more information on the Bussmann relay box that I used, and if it came with instructions. It doesn't come with instructions, but it's pretty easy to figure out.
It is expensive to get into the Weatherpack business initially, but if you have an MSD ratcheting spark plug wire crimper with removable dies, you can get a set of Weatherpack dies for ~$40. Otherwise, the dedicated tool from DIY is $108. The terminals and seals are dirt cheap.
The unit pictured is a two-bussed model... that is, the hot power is bussed, so one side of each fuse plugs into it, and one relay coil terminal is bussed. As it turned out, I wanted the Megasquirt to control two of my relay coils, and two just work with the ignition key. So, I bought a single-bussed model that only busses the hot power, and that is the one on my car. I am using four relays: power to the Megasquirt and the voltage regulator, coil power, injector power, and fuel pump. I'll use the relay box pictured to run my high-wattage European headlights eventually.
In the photos, I have installed jumpers from the fused side of the fuse to one of the normally open relay contacts. This unit holds five relays. All I'd need to do is install a wire from the other normally open contact to a load, and wire one side of the coil, and one relay would be connected and ready to go. The whole thing is sealed really well, both at the cover and at the wire penetrations. You can buy hole plugs (green) for any unused cavities. I bought one of those cheesy relay boards from DIY; I'm gonna try to unload it on eBay.
I'll make another reply with part numbers for the box, the bracket, and the various terminals and seals.
One more photo. You can't attach but four to a post.
It should be noted that the seals are a different color depending on the wire size they are intended for. That's why the larger yellow wire has a gray seal, and the crimped terminal on the small wire has a green one.
I found the best prices at Waytek Wire.
PART NUMBERS:
1-bussed RTMR (that's the real name for it) 15303-6-2-4
2-bussed RTMR 15303-2-2-4
Mounting Bracket (sold individually, 2 req'd) B028-7012-0-J
Wire seals, 18-20 GA 15324982
Wire seals, 14-16 GA 15324980
Wire seals, 12 GA 15324981
Female Terminal, 16-18 GA 12110847
Female Terminal, 14-16 GA 12129409
Female Terminal, 14-12 GA 12110845
Cavity Plug - 12010300
Relay 75660 (this is a Waytek part number) 5 required
You'll need a pin removal tool too, and for some reason I can't find the part number for it right now. Once I do, I'll edit this post to include it.
Thats a nice unit, Wish I would have gone that route!
Thanks Jim, I think once I get everything running I'm going to switch to that. Much cleaner than what Im using.
Well I went to Redmists house yesterday to pick up some parts. Ran into his Craigslist ad and the Dodgecharger.com forum subject came up.
The only Charger I saw was a matchbox car and the only engine I saw was in a lawnmower that he couldn't get running right. :icon_smile_big:
But seriously...Ryan it was nice meeting you, thanks again !
I am looking forward to going for a ride in your car someday! What an amazing job you've done on it. :yesnod: :coolgleamA:
can any of you guys that have gotten that far point me in the manual to where it tells me how to control my cooling fan with MS? i can't find it for the life of me.
Quote from: grnfsh on March 26, 2016, 05:54:55 PM
can any of you guys that have gotten that far point me in the manual to where it tells me how to control my cooling fan with MS? i can't find it for the life of me.
You bet!!!!
I don't have the part in the manual, however
In Tuner studio under Basic/Load settings you will find "Fan Control."
Now you need an output for it. In my case I used the "Inj B Output" on the MS3 card. This is an output that would normally be used for batch injection if I had only an MS3, but I have an MS3X so I am using the sequential out on the X. This leaves a host of stuff open to use on the MS3 card.
So I chose Inj bank 2! I use Inj bank 1 for a check engine light.
Next you need to run this output to the low side of a relay. Remember that the MS3-MS3X is a ground switching system! So we are going to hook Inj Bank 2 to the ground side of the relay, and a 12 volt source for the other side. Now hook your high amp output to the relay and run it to your fan. Then setup the fan in Tuner studio!
Mine is setup like this right now:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-a2Haecfmz2I/VvdHhUgu6xI/AAAAAAAACMk/-98iuKDSwx48TztSOj5rsQCoVySgFlKrw/w542-h731-no/Capture.JPG)
You can test the fan output with your new setup in the TESTMODES tab of Tuner Studio!
Ryan
Perfect! Thanks
Ok, I see so you can really use any output that is available in the drop down that isnt already being used in another application?
Quote from: grnfsh on March 28, 2016, 08:09:13 AM
Ok, I see so you can really use any output that is available in the drop down that isnt already being used in another application?
For the most part yes, that's how I understood it.
So I had a few request for a larger trigger wheel for steel vibration dampers. I have gotten the wheels in and made one bracket for a test fit and have attached a picture of the setup on my motor. I also have material to make the cam sensor bushing I hope to have done this week.
Quote from: redmist on March 26, 2016, 09:39:36 PM
Quote from: grnfsh on March 26, 2016, 05:54:55 PM
can any of you guys that have gotten that far point me in the manual to where it tells me how to control my cooling fan with MS? i can't find it for the life of me.
You bet!!!!
I don't have the part in the manual, however
In Tuner studio under Basic/Load settings you will find "Fan Control."
Now you need an output for it. In my case I used the "Inj B Output" on the MS3 card. This is an output that would normally be used for batch injection if I had only an MS3, but I have an MS3X so I am using the sequential out on the X. This leaves a host of stuff open to use on the MS3 card.
So I chose Inj bank 2! I use Inj bank 1 for a check engine light.
Next you need to run this output to the low side of a relay. Remember that the MS3-MS3X is a ground switching system! So we are going to hook Inj Bank 2 to the ground side of the relay, and a 12 volt source for the other side. Now hook your high amp output to the relay and run it to your fan. Then setup the fan in Tuner studio!
Mine is setup like this right now:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-a2Haecfmz2I/VvdHhUgu6xI/AAAAAAAACMk/-98iuKDSwx48TztSOj5rsQCoVySgFlKrw/w542-h731-no/Capture.JPG)
You can test the fan output with your new setup in the TESTMODES tab of Tuner Studio!
Ryan
Like this?
Just got a message back from SD concepts that the big block kits are ready. Is it really true?? :o
Quote from: Aussiemadonmopars on April 05, 2016, 09:25:59 AM
Just got a message back from SD concepts that the big block kits are ready. Is it really true?? :o
Which kits?
For the CPS bushing and the Wheel, together as a kit.
EDIT: Never mind.. sensor was jacked up.
Hey Fellas, Having a TPS calibration issue. It doesnt seem to be reading properly. When I open the tools menu to calibrate TPS it reads 250 on closed and 958 on open. The default gauge says the TPS is open 10%. I verified and it is all the way closed in reality.
When I go to calibrate and click "get current" it goes to 320
When I get current on WOT after manually opening the TB i get 320 as well.
What gives? any ideas?
Photos from SD designs. Kits are ready to go...... :icon_smile_cool:
:'( pictures are not working
I posted this on moparts but i'll drop it here too. sorry if this is spam but a lot of guys have been waiting....
Quote from: sdconcepts on April 08, 2016, 12:59:25 PM
I posted this on moparts but i'll drop it here too. sorry if this is spam but a lot of guys have been waiting....
So this should or could clamp to any Crank pulley? I have a CVF pulley kit (Sorry, I didn't see your kit before I ordered).
Just got my order in, one of the first. $425 for CPS bushing and crank sensor kit with shipping to the other side of the world. I love it!!!
this kit is designed to clamp to a stock pulley. I can mod the kit to work with most other pulleys but I would have to see the pulley, or you would have to provide very accurate dimensions.
Hey Jerry, good to see you on the forum, these should sell very well. A much needed part indeed.
As It turns out these wheels fit fine on my motor but I'm using an electric water pump. This wheel does not fit with the factory water pump So I will go back to the drawing board.
Ok I have 5 sets of wheels, sensor bracket and CPS bushings made. (0 sets left) The wheel pilots directly on the Damper and works with any pulley. The wheels are 8 1/4" diameter and are designed to work with steel dampers. (they are larger for the steel damper because I was concerned the hall sensor being magnetic would false trigger on the steel damper) The sensor brackets are fixed and not intended to be adjustable.
I have wheels also that are 7 1/4" for aluminum dampers with sensor brackets. What I did on my car and the way I made the CPS bushing is I took the original distributor hold down clamp and smashed the tips closer together that actually touched the distributor so that now they touch the jeep CPS. ( The Jeep CPS is smaller in diameter) Then I smashed it at the bend to lengthen it. I will eventually have these made new with this design in mind. Currently the hold down clamp is not included.I've attached pictures. If you are interested send me a PM.
MechTech,
What kind of spacing changes are seen with the trigger wheel?? I may need one for future plans.
Ryan
Hi redmist
The trigger wheel sets the lower pulley out 1/8". There is still 1/16" sticking out of the damper for the lower pulley to pilot on so everything runs true.
Jim
Hey where did you guys mount your O2 Controllers? They seem sort of awkward and I'm trying to figure out what to do with them.
I took the heater box out so I have plenty of room under the dash. I made a plate and mounted that under my passenger seat and attached the megasquirt there and ran the cables under the carpet and up under the dash. Something like that might work for you,the wires for the O2 need to come up thru the floor.
ok, i was trying to get them to come up and into the engine compartment, but that makes more sense to me just bringing them up through the floor.
It may be there is a hole there already it has a 2" plastic plug in it. I put a hole in that plug and brought it thru that way.
Quote from: MechTech on April 12, 2016, 08:40:54 PM
It may be there is a hole there already it has a 2" plastic plug in it. I put a hole in that plug and brought it thru that way.
yeah I think there is. Going to roll under there today to see about it.
ok, everything is wired and ready to go but it doesnt run. I Have a fuel issues as if I spray some starting fluid in the manifold it will run, and actually idles nicely for about 8-10 seconds before running out of fuel.
I've got a brand new tanks inc tank, with the in tank walboro pump. I'm using an aeromotive pressure regulator and checked to make sure I had the right spring in it. I can't adjust fuel pressure because it bleeds down when the pump is off.
One thing of note. When I first sorted everything yesterday and went to get it going the pump had a much smoother higher frequency sound to it than it does now. I messed with some settings but did not do a good job of documenting what i did. Now it sounds deeper and actually pulses sometimes.
I Tested the injectors in test mode and they all seem to be working fine
My fuel lines are in a loop, going from the tank to the pump and though the filter, here is a diagram.
My guess is that you have ASE After Start Enrichment settings that are covering a tuning problem for those 8-10 seconds.
When you start the car, ASE will run for a set time, and then taper off. Check ASE first, but I would also start a log, and start the car... After it does it's thing, go back to your log and watch injector pulse width. If injector pulse width tapers off (Goes from say 10MS to 4MS) and then dies, you have confirmed that it's a tuning issue, and not related to your fuel system.
It will literally tell you what it's doing! You just have to take the time to look! :2thumbs:
I Have a gauge on the regulator under the hood. I just put a trigger on the starter relay so I could watch it while cranking. There is almost 0 fuel pressure. It pulses up to about 5psi at most. I'm thinking my pump may be bad or have a clog in the line. but with brand new lines and pump why would that happen?
Quote from: redmist on April 16, 2016, 02:25:19 PM
My guess is that you have ASE After Start Enrichment settings that are covering a tuning problem for those 8-10 seconds.
When you start the car, ASE will run for a set time, and then taper off. Check ASE first, but I would also start a log, and start the car... After it does it's thing, go back to your log and watch injector pulse width. If injector pulse width tapers off (Goes from say 10MS to 4MS) and then dies, you have confirmed that it's a tuning issue, and not related to your fuel system.
It will literally tell you what it's doing! You just have to take the time to look! :2thumbs:
ok, ill check that also, thanks
When you turn the key on, you should have a two second pump prime that takes place. You should also be able to go into test mode in Tuner Studio and activate the pump with the key on only. I use this feature to drain my tank when I am working on it.
Are you running your pump through the Megasquirt? It sounds like you have it just wired to the car or something possibly?
Ryan
Quote from: redmist on April 16, 2016, 05:58:28 PM
When you turn the key on, you should have a two second pump prime that takes place. You should also be able to go into test mode in Tuner Studio and activate the pump with the key on only. I use this feature to drain my tank when I am working on it.
Are you running your pump through the Megasquirt? It sounds like you have it just wired to the car or something possibly?
Ryan
I second this... you can set your fuel pump to stay on in Tuner Studio to test it and set the pressure to what you want. If your fuel pressure gauge on the regulator is at zero while the pump is running, then your pump isn't picking up any fuel for some reason. You sure there is gas in the tank?
:cheers:
Ok, stupid question here. I had it running/driving (with lots of issues) last fall and was so sick of fighting with it, I parked it until now. Time to get it dialed in. I just installed an Innovate O2 sensor which I think will help the tuning once.
It starts and runs very smooth and throttle response is amazing so I think I'm pretty close. The issue I have is that it won't settle on an idle, it just dies when I let off the throttle. Stupid question here: Is it normal to have to idle it up with the idle set screw? Wow, that sounds dumb as I write it, but I was under the impression that the IAC would handle that. Also what TPS percentage would be normal for setting the screw?
At this point my bigger issue is that I cheaped out on valve covers and they don't fit right and the gasket won't seal. So I'm off to 440 Source to do the job right.
Thanks again for all the help.
Quote from: redmist on April 16, 2016, 05:58:28 PM
When you turn the key on, you should have a two second pump prime that takes place. You should also be able to go into test mode in Tuner Studio and activate the pump with the key on only. I use this feature to drain my tank when I am working on it.
Are you running your pump through the Megasquirt? It sounds like you have it just wired to the car or something possibly?
Ryan
ahh.. ok I was not aware of that feature.. yes I am running through the MS. Ill give that a go as well.
Quote from: peterro on April 16, 2016, 09:15:43 PM
Ok, stupid question here. I had it running/driving (with lots of issues) last fall and was so sick of fighting with it, I parked it until now. Time to get it dialed in. I just installed an Innovate O2 sensor which I think will help the tuning once.
It starts and runs very smooth and throttle response is amazing so I think I'm pretty close. The issue I have is that it won't settle on an idle, it just dies when I let off the throttle. Stupid question here: Is it normal to have to idle it up with the idle set screw? Wow, that sounds dumb as I write it, but I was under the impression that the IAC would handle that. Also what TPS percentage would be normal for setting the screw?
My motor was doing that when I got it running then I found a table under Startup/idle there you will find the idle VE table it needs to be turned on and the rpm and throttle position set. If the throttle position or idle speed go over those settings it causes your idle to very. you also need to adjust the table for the air/fuel ratio that you want at idle. I have found that my car likes 19 afr at idle if for some reason on my setup the idle or throttle position doesn't drop below the settings in the Idle VE table its starts idling rich like 13 afr so if I am sitting a traffic light to long like that the motor will bog and stall. There are a lot of different settings I call them toys in the box to play with. I am glad to hear that you added an O2 sensor its an imperative for tuning these things.
Update:
So i went out this morning with a fresh charged battery and a new outlook on life....
I enabled test mode on the fuel pump and I hear it humming along sounding just fine. That was encouraging.
But I still have no pressure. I run the adjustment in on the regulator and I can hear a very distinct difference in sound of the fuel pump. still no reading on the gauge but It is much lower frequency and sounds to be struggling a bit. So now I'm thinking the pump is fine, its the regulator.
any way to test a regulator?
also, When I took the regulator apart to switch springs there is a possibility I didnt re assemble it correctly. Does any one have an exploded view of the aeromotive insides?
It sounds to me like something is dead headed, turned all the way down, or assembled incorrectly as you stated.
You should be able to turn on that pump in TS, and walk over and see pressure!
(http://static.speedwaymotors.com/images/charts/aeromotovie13304.jpg)
Are you getting pressure and volume before the fuel rails? I would pull the line at the first fuel rail and make sure it flows and then check for pressure there first, without the regulator. Shouldn't you have sone one way valve(s) that would help retain pressure after shut down..
Quote from: Derwud on April 17, 2016, 03:56:13 PM
Are you getting pressure and volume before the fuel rails? I would pull the line at the first fuel rail and make sure it flows and then check for pressure there first, without the regulator. Shouldn't you have sone one way valve(s) that would help retain pressure after shut down..
well, possibly but with these aeromotive regulators they do not keep pressure when the pump is not running.
I would start with disconnecting your line at the tank and regulator. Carefully with air blow thru line to see if it flows air on an open line.
Yes?
Connect a line to tank that dumps into a gas can and blip the pump to see if it pumps.
As for the regulator I would suspect you can do the same with air thru it to see if you get air out of it at the given pressure. Pressure is pressure. Whether its air or liquid.
Hope to see you get it sorted soon.
Mike
yeah, i'm a freaking idiot that's what happened. Fuel filter was backwards. :brickwall: :RantExplode:
car still doesnt start but I have good fuel pressure now. Onward !!
One step at a time. :D
This is a good time to look at your AFR gage and see what it says after you have cranked it over a little. If its near 20 you may need to add some fuel if its near 10 you'll need to reduce the fuel and you may also need to clear the flood. There is a flood clear setting mine is set around 30% what its for is if you have flooded the engine you push the pedal past 30% the injectors will stop pumping and hopefully the engine starts.
Quote from: MechTech on April 21, 2016, 07:44:16 PM
This is a good time to look at your AFR gage and see what it says after you have cranked it over a little. If its near 20 you may need to add some fuel if its near 10 you'll need to reduce the fuel and you may also need to clear the flood. There is a flood clear setting mine is set around 30% what its for is if you have flooded the engine you push the pedal past 30% the injectors will stop pumping and hopefully the engine starts.
Cool, thanks, i put it down after Thursday and went to spring carlisle to clear my head. Ill get back at it tomorrow
My AFR isnt budging when I crank. Also, I dont hear my injectors cycling when I turn on the MS like I usually do. I did test mode and it appears that they are pulsing but I can barely hear it if at all.
Can you send me your .MSQ file?
ryan@2a-arms.com
in your inbox, thanks
grnfish.
I went through your MSQ and it's all sorts a messed... Perhaps!
Can you give a full run down of your build??
Injectors?
Idle Control Valve?
Are you using the Jeep CPS?
What cam are you running?
Lets see what you are working with, my initial thoughts is that my tune may be an almost plug and play for your car, but I want to get some input on your build first.
Ryan
Quote from: redmist on April 24, 2016, 10:43:45 PM
grnfish.
I went through your MSQ and it's all sorts a messed... Perhaps!
Can you give a full run down of your build??
Injectors?
Idle Control Valve?
Are you using the Jeep CPS?
What cam are you running?
Lets see what you are working with, my initial thoughts is that my tune may be an almost plug and play for your car, but I want to get some input on your build first.
Ryan
Pretty similar to your engine. I'm using all the same sensors you are using. I pretty much went down the line and just did what you did as far as sensors go. Same coils, Jeep CPS, GM ICV, TPS, MAP sensor, IAC sensor etc. Injectors are the Ford EV14 Shelby 55lb injectors The only difference may be is I'm using the 14point7 o2 sensors, but they are plug and play with the MS and I am 99.9% sure they are set up correctly. Real similar to the innovate stuff.
My cam is a racerbrown 520 Hyd cam. Edelbrock heads, on pump gas
email me back your MSQ and ill load it and see what happens
Quote from: grnfsh on April 25, 2016, 06:07:52 AM
Quote from: redmist on April 24, 2016, 10:43:45 PM
grnfish.
I went through your MSQ and it's all sorts a messed... Perhaps!
Can you give a full run down of your build??
Injectors?
Idle Control Valve?
Are you using the Jeep CPS?
What cam are you running?
Lets see what you are working with, my initial thoughts is that my tune may be an almost plug and play for your car, but I want to get some input on your build first.
Ryan
Pretty similar to your engine. I'm using all the same sensors you are using. I pretty much went down the line and just did what you did as far as sensors go. Same coils, Jeep CPS, GM ICV, TPS, MAP sensor, IAC sensor etc. Injectors are the Ford EV14 Shelby 55lb injectors The only difference may be is I'm using the 14point7 o2 sensors, but they are plug and play with the MS and I am 99.9% sure they are set up correctly. Real similar to the innovate stuff.
My cam is a racerbrown 520 Hyd cam. Edelbrock heads, on pump gas
email me back your MSQ and ill load it and see what happens
:popcrn:
Still am not getting fuel to the combustion chamber. I have pressure now just fine, but it doesnt even attempt to fire. however it will run on starting fluid if sprayed in the manifold. I removed an injector and bench tested it and it seemed to work fine so I think the injectors themselves are ok.
Makes a carb sound really good right now!
ok so the injector test was successful. which puzzles me even more actually. I can hear all injectors clicking so I know they are operating and work.
Try this.....
Cycle your key on and off 4 times, and then try to start it. What I am trying to get is 4 good pump primes to fire fuel into the cylinders to give it fuel. If that makes it run for a little bit, or at least fires off, it's going to be a simple setting.
It's going to be something simple! I promise! When you find it, you will go Aha!
I tried something similar.
When I turn on the MS I still do not hear the cycle of injectors for some reason. I did at one point but for some reason that doesnt happen.
What I did was, went into test mode and primed the engine that way. Fuel pump on, cycle injectors. Turn off test mode, attempt to start.
Nothing, it just cranks and does not attempt to start.
Not sure how I got nothing at that point other than maybe it was flooded. It was late last night so ill try again today.
Send me your modified tune of my tune.
Don't change anything on it, just exactly as it is right now as modified from my tune.
Your old tune would have never started.
Ryan
Hey redmist, quick easy question. How did you attach your coil brackets to the valve covers? If possible, a close up picture might be nice. I'm fighting with my off-brand valve covers and leaks so I bought a good set from 440 source and need to re-work my mounting. Good money after bad.
Thanks
I drilled holes in the covers that match the mounting holes on the coil brackets. I then got long stainless steel bolts, and mounted them up through the valve cover and retained the bolts themselves with a Nyloc nut. I also used rubber backed steel washers on each side of the valve cover. The Nyloc provided a spacer for the coils to sit off the valve cover and I retained the coils with another Nyloc.
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah294/TZLVredmist/IMAG0969_zpsx4dc0taq.jpg)
Perfect, thanks.
Quote from: redmist on April 28, 2016, 12:25:55 PM
Send me your modified tune of my tune.
Don't change anything on it, just exactly as it is right now as modified from my tune.
Your old tune would have never started.
Ryan
ok ill get that to you this afternoon
Oh look!
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah294/TZLVredmist/jakefabfuelpuck_zpscdhprc9c.jpg)
Hi peterro
if you haven't modified your valve covers yet I have a coil bracket that I have made and plan on offering it to anyone interested. It does not attach to the valve but instead sits on spacers that sit where the hold down screws go. If you are interested I can make you a set. I am also asking for feedback from anyone else as to the design. I've attached pictures thanks
redmist
I know that does not go to one of your rifles. It looks expensive whats it for?
The hopes is that it's a nice modular solution for the Tanksinc EFI tanks that is priced the same or close to the stamped steel non-modular units.
I will update more on it when I am farther along. They won't be expensive though.
Quote from: redmist on April 29, 2016, 08:45:17 PM
The hopes is that it's a nice modular solution for the Tanksinc EFI tanks that is priced the same or close to the stamped steel non-modular units.
I will update more on it when I am farther along. They won't be expensive though.
Oh, I have a Tanks inc tank and pump...
And coil brackets...
Quote from: Derwud on April 29, 2016, 09:47:12 PM
Quote from: redmist on April 29, 2016, 08:45:17 PM
The hopes is that it's a nice modular solution for the Tanksinc EFI tanks that is priced the same or close to the stamped steel non-modular units.
I will update more on it when I am farther along. They won't be expensive though.
Oh, I have a Tanks inc tank and pump...
And coil brackets...
Well you may need a "Fuel Puck!"
Quote from: redmist on April 29, 2016, 07:53:08 PM
Oh look!
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah294/TZLVredmist/jakefabfuelpuck_zpscdhprc9c.jpg)
HOLY PUCK! that looks cool
Edelbrock Pro-Flo XT Manifold $395.90
Where did you find this manifoldso cheap?
Quote from: chargerhell on May 02, 2016, 01:49:12 PM
Edelbrock Pro-Flo XT Manifold $395.90
Where did you find this manifoldso cheap?
As redmist owns or runs a fully capable shop I believe this is the teaser for him to make and sell a few.
Quote from: chargerhell on May 02, 2016, 01:49:12 PM
Edelbrock Pro-Flo XT Manifold $395.90
Where did you find this manifoldso cheap?
That price was from 3 years ago... My guess is that it has gone up in price some since.
Quote from: YellowThumper on May 02, 2016, 03:35:24 PM
Quote from: chargerhell on May 02, 2016, 01:49:12 PM
Edelbrock Pro-Flo XT Manifold $395.90
Where did you find this manifoldso cheap?
As redmist owns or runs a fully capable shop I believe this is the teaser for him to make and sell a few.
This is also correct... Although I founded 2A-Armament, I am not the majority owner there. I will also be stepping away from 2A in order to focus on some other items, one being a new startup for parts like above. No partners, no investors this time! :2thumbs: I learned my lesson there the hard way, LOL!
Anyhow, if I can offer the above "Fuel Puck" for a reasonable price, I hope that there will be some interest in it over the stamped steel versions available now.
Ryan
Quote from: redmist on May 02, 2016, 08:09:30 PM
This is also correct... Although I founded 2A-Armament, I am not the majority owner there. I will also be stepping away from 2A in order to focus on some other items, one being a new startup for parts like above. No partners, no investors this time! :2thumbs: I learned my lesson there the hard way, LOL!
Anyhow, if I can offer the above "Fuel Puck" for a reasonable price, I hope that there will be some interest in it over the stamped steel versions available now.
Ryan
Good luck in your new venture! I'm still collecting items for my eventual EFI conversion, so I'm definitely interested in this.
Quote from: redmist on May 02, 2016, 08:06:36 PM
Quote from: chargerhell on May 02, 2016, 01:49:12 PM
Edelbrock Pro-Flo XT Manifold $395.90
Where did you find this manifoldso cheap?
That price was from 3 years ago... My guess is that it has gone up in price some since.
yes it has
I'm still fighting this fight.
I bench tested a few injectors and they seem to work fine. Then I took a syringe and injected gas down though the injector holes and replaced the injectors. It attempted to start when I did that.
So again, when fuel is manually introduced into the chamber its attempts to start. For some reason the injectors are not spraying fuel when they are told to do so by the MS.
EDIT:
I just had a bit of progress. I ran test mode on the injectors with the fuel pump on and then cranked the engine and it attempted to start. So for some reason the injectors are not firing when cranking.
I assume you have confirmed proper pressure at the rails.
Possible dwell setting not leaving them open long enough to supply fuel. Have you confirmed the proper 12v power source to feed injectors?
Quote from: YellowThumper on May 03, 2016, 04:16:35 PM
I assume you have confirmed proper pressure at the rails.
Possible dwell setting not leaving them open long enough to supply fuel. Have you confirmed the proper 12v power source to feed injectors?
so 12v should be fine as I can run in test mode. Dwell setting may be an issue, but if it works on redmist's it should be ok on mine right?
Looking at your most current log, I am still seeing a dead MAP sensor. It is stuck at 12.8KPA from zero RPM to cranking. you should see barometric pressure at rest, and then it should go to a more sane idle vaccum area when started. around 50 KPA.
We must fix this first!
Create a MAP gauge in tuner studio, key the car on, but don't start it and tell us what you have at rest.
Ryan
Here is a picture of my MAP sensor on my setup. You can see that pin out is labeled right on the sensors from the factory. This one reads: " 5V Vout GND "
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah294/TZLVredmist/IMAG0979_zpslx1ywfh0.jpg)
Also post a picture of your install! It looks real nice and clean. I see that you have the emissions Port on the throttle body open! Get a cap on that large tube, I believe it's fresh air, but it might be vacuum.
This suckers gunna start and run good!
I double checked my wiring on the MAP sensor and it appears to be correct. I'm wondering if the sensor itself is crap? Just to be clear the Vout goes to EXT_MAP right? I used GM 1 bar for calibration
The Barro seems to be reading just fine. The MAP is at 12.9 KPA and doesn't budge. Here is a shot of my gauges
also, as requested I just took a pic of the install. Excuse the wiring as I've been pulling the looms apart making sure everything is correct.
ok MAP is sorted. Had to go from "Voltage" to "Frequency" in the general settings for MAP.
also, I did test mode again on the injectors and sprayed fuel in the cylinders and the car fired. This tells me the injectors are not firing when cranking or running. Why?
Quote from: YellowThumper on May 03, 2016, 04:16:35 PM
I assume you have confirmed proper pressure at the rails.
Possible dwell setting not leaving them open long enough to supply fuel. Have you confirmed the proper 12v power source to feed injectors?
I have the feeling that this was already discussed, but did you accidentally wire your injectors to have 12V while running, but not while cranking?
:cheers:
I would verify that you actually have voltage at the injector while cranking.
Quote from: MechTech on May 04, 2016, 03:39:43 PM
I would verify that you actually have voltage at the injector while cranking.
Well lets assume I DON'T have 12v while cranking. What do I need to do to fix it? I'm sort of confused. If I have 12v that works in test mode the 12v is coming from the same source either way.
Did you pull voltage from the two leads that were used for the ballast resistor?? I agree, now that the MAP sensor is working, I would confirm voltage while cranking on the injectors. The factory MOPAR wiring will drop one leg when cranking, so the two must be combined!
Ryan
Its not connected to the factory mopar wire harness. I created its own circuit on a toggle switch to eliminate those issues with getting this thing together. The coils are on the same circuit and they work fine.
so I just tested the injectors with a noid tester and it appears only number 1 is actually firing when cranking. What's up with that?
Quote from: grnfsh on May 05, 2016, 10:42:20 AM
so I just tested the injectors with a noid tester and it appears only number 1 is actually firing when cranking. What's up with that?
How did you wire your injectors?
Maybe as a test, make sure that you have 12V (ground the test lead to the battery or block not the injector wire from MS) at all injector power wires with key on, and then when cranking.
:cheers:
Quote from: Black_Bee on May 05, 2016, 01:26:27 PM
Quote from: grnfsh on May 05, 2016, 10:42:20 AM
so I just tested the injectors with a noid tester and it appears only number 1 is actually firing when cranking. What's up with that?
How did you wire your injectors?
Maybe as a test, make sure that you have 12V (ground the test lead to the battery or block not the injector wire from MS) at all injector power wires with key on, and then when cranking.
:cheers:
Bank A and B have their own individual fuse and then each logic A-H is wired to its respective injector. They have to be wired right because they fire in test mode right?
Quote from: grnfsh on May 05, 2016, 02:09:06 PM
Bank A and B have their own individual fuse and then each logic A-H is wired to its respective injector. They have to be wired right because they fire in test mode right?
Yes, you would think that if it is working in test mode then it should would when trying to fire it up. Since it isn't working, who knows whats going on without testing everything?
Another thing that has occurred to me for testing... have you tried checking that the timing while cranking is what you have set it to (or even in the ballpark)?
Do you have your Cranking/Startup settings set to batch fire?
Maybe attach your tune and a cranking datalog?
:cheers:
You can do injector test and hear each one click yes? If so, you should be wired correctly.
When you turn on the key, do you hear each injector fire one pulse as the fuel pump primes?
Quote from: redmist on May 05, 2016, 06:33:55 PM
You can do injector test and hear each one click yes? If so, you should be wired correctly.
When you turn on the key, do you hear each injector fire one pulse as the fuel pump primes?
Yes, I can hear them click when I test each injector. So yes, I know they are wired correctly.
HOWEVER.. No, I do NOT hear the prime pulse. I did hear it at one point when I first wired them up and am not sure why I do not anymore.
Crazy stuff here... It's going to be something silly, I know it is. a relay being activated or deactivated during crank, a trigger wheel set wrong so it doesn't have enough teeth before it to calculate timing, or something like that. I see you have a good thread on MSEXTRA going. I would stick to that thread and solve the issue there and let us know what it is that fixed it. I will chime in on that thread as well.
This is what is so awesome about megasquirt though, you have an entire community trying to solve YOUR issue!
Quote from: redmist on May 05, 2016, 10:12:22 PM
Crazy stuff here... It's going to be something silly, I know it is. a relay being activated or deactivated during crank, a trigger wheel set wrong so it doesn't have enough teeth before it to calculate timing, or something like that. I see you have a good thread on MSEXTRA going. I would stick to that thread and solve the issue there and let us know what it is that fixed it. I will chime in on that thread as well.
This is what is so awesome about megasquirt though, you have an entire community trying to solve YOUR issue!
Thanks, yeah, I started a thread over there to try an leverage some of their ideas. At least there is some progress. Not fast, but some. :brickwall:
By the way, Redmist, how is your supercharger install coming along?
Quote from: grnfsh on May 06, 2016, 06:44:11 AM
Thanks, yeah, I started a thread over there to try an leverage some of their ideas. At least there is some progress. Not fast, but some. :brickwall:
Would you mind linking the thread? I'd like to see how this resolves!
I think this is it
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=62415
I have a prototype made of a CPS hold down clamp I'm going to have some of these made for anyone interested. I will have the Bushing and the Clamp available as well as trigger wheels and sensor brackets. Pictures attached.
Quote from: grnfsh on May 06, 2016, 11:27:16 AM
By the way, Redmist, how is your supercharger install coming along?
I shelved it for next winter.... I bit off more then I could chew with mods this winter, and wanted to drive the car, so Pro-Charger will be next year. :2thumbs:
IT RUNS!!!!!!! :cheers: :o :icon_smile_cool: ;D :laugh:
you guys will never guess WTF was wrong. We all though it would be something stupid and it was.
Had remembered at one point that the injectors cycled properly at one point but didnt remember when that stopped happening. I started going backwards. I had swapped relays, and did some other things. Then I had an idea, all i did was swap the 5A fuses I was using for the injectors for 15A fuses. Soon as I flipped my toggle switch I heard the prime cycle. Turned the key and it fired.
So either the 5A wasnt enough or those 5A fuses were shot. They are non see though so I couldnt see if they were bad and had no reason think other wise. I was running 5A fuses for my injectors. Based on what the diagram for the MS3 said. What size fuses do you guys use for injectors?
anyhow, thanks for your help guys. I'm going to get this thing drive able this week so we can take it down to the show in a few weeks. Hopefully there wont be any new surprises.
Quote from: shawge on May 06, 2016, 12:26:13 PM
I think this is it
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=62415
yep, thanks
Quote from: grnfsh on May 08, 2016, 06:15:51 PM
IT RUNS!!!!!!! :cheers: :o :icon_smile_cool: ;D :laugh:
you guys will never guess WTF was wrong. We all thought it would be something stupid and it was.
Had remembered at one point that the injectors cycled properly at one point but didnt remember when that stopped happening. I started going backwards. I had swapped relays, and did some other things. Then I had an idea, all i did was swap the 5A fuses I was using for the injectors for 15A fuses. Soon as I flipped my toggle switch I heard the prime cycle. Turned the key and it fired.
So either the 5A wasnt enough or those 5A fuses were shot. They are non see though so I couldnt see if they were bad and had no reason think other wise. I was running 5A fuses for my injectors. Based on what the diagram for the MS3 said. What size fuses do you guys use for injectors?
anyhow, thanks for your help guys. I'm going to get this thing drive able this week so we can take it down to the show in a few weeks. Hopefully there wont be any new surprises.
Awesome news! Congrats and post some vids. :cheers:
ShaBAM!!!
I knew it was going to be something silly!
My tune should be very close to what your car will wan't. :2thumbs: :nana: :cheers: :cheers:
Quote from: redmist on May 08, 2016, 11:06:51 PM
ShaBAM!!!
I knew it was going to be something silly!
My tune should be very close to what your car will wan't. :2thumbs: :nana: :cheers: :cheers:
That's pretty much what's on it now. I need to change a few things back to what you sent because I was fooling with it. Cylinder #1 got full of fuel so I need to run it to clear it out so I need to go get a belt for the water pump today.
Also, Redmist, you are running a one wire alternator, the one wire just connects to the large terminal on the starter relay right?
Congrats on the fireup!
Thanks all of you guys you are helping way more than just grnfish...
:cheers: :drool5:
Mike
Congrats grnfsh hope to see you in O.C.
As to your question about what amperage fuses we are using I am using a 5amp fuse I did a little testing this evening by putting an amp meter in line with the injector circuit. At idle one bank of the injectors are drawing .4 amps and as the rpm increases the amperage does also, at about 3000rpm while in park 4 of the injectors drew 1.9 amps. So As I suggested in my text message please look the wiring over and check the 5amp fuses that you were using to see if you can determine why it would not start on that 5amp fuse. Fuses and circuit breakers are generally sized based on the load carrying capabilities of the wiring they are protecting and in some cases the devices the are protecting. So you should not use a larger amp fuse than the wire you are using can carry.
Quote from: grnfsh on May 09, 2016, 06:16:41 AM
Quote from: redmist on May 08, 2016, 11:06:51 PM
ShaBAM!!!
I knew it was going to be something silly!
My tune should be very close to what your car will wan't. :2thumbs: :nana: :cheers: :cheers:
That's pretty much what's on it now. I need to change a few things back to what you sent because I was fooling with it. Cylinder #1 got full of fuel so I need to run it to clear it out so I need to go get a belt for the water pump today.
Also, Redmist, you are running a one wire alternator, the one wire just connects to the large terminal on the starter relay right?
I am running a DENSO, large wire to starter post, or in my case, a distribution stud.
Then it has three more wires. Ignition, Idiot light, and Sense.
Has anyone bought a trigger wheel and CPS bushing off SD concepts?
I have the CPS bushing from SD. Seems to work fine
Not meaning to hijack this thread, but has anyone using the Pro-Flo XT manifold tried to mount the coils under the intake above the valley pan?
I'd like to have them out of the way and off the valve covers.
I haven't sourced coils (still deciding on which), so I can't try it for size yet, but if someone has experience with this I'd love to hear about it.
Thanks!
Saw this a couple of years ago at Spring or Fall Fling in Cali..
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Cd3BQXkX3pZIwbW851bwwJ-x5VMSgTlHEY7i3TZgMmWO3u3Afp82oWuX0O_LAgHL7v8BM_0V_psjFQf6tyQLoNwlxptxE20fDfOKD2s6od-cFo2LP6NtWyc_L9oUa032RuGhv8-VQLI8-9H0c2GwYsPv_7mwXpXmv-sKw7Vk0XEFopT0TaP4MZos8cJXQYAQZds42yRjdoS3U9RRr0SzlvYRzpdlRNT6dEZn3mXR4JpYiFsCCnNsT15_rZvx9qvJML06aeZTnbZiQXb4H8QB1AGAHihBCYOJK8BLe6oH7OnM7qX20LyLchiKblLM7g5D7hp_0LpRHKWFw-MoOWWv4qNnt4P_g-3Yjf7lD_LFZhKBtQNKtuyhw1kZ_vdG9xr5SYeg3Mk8ZhP7xwm4rnqTbT-vLZQk058pcpAmiMhwMz5Kb7UChr5GHFXbkbjBAHf22Z5z3XpBQltFd6dqlrZeKUxNS2Sky4zk15v8m4pcsEs5rxIq65JgKK3MepF0iqLXdZfa4nzxWbQlBBu2IglK-XULuUJQL-ilGNt-FFsrSoIemXWY-4cmnj6Wz_9mf38b9x7-BUNmdgKSuo7H2zrCht4Lww=w1205-h681-no)
Quote from: Derwud on May 12, 2016, 10:26:39 PM
Saw this a couple of years ago at Spring or Fall Fling in Cali..
I wasn't able to see your image, but you inspired me to do some searching and I came across this, just what I was looking for!
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=37105 (http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=37105)
(http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz224/ntstlgl1970/9cdf7bb0.jpg)
Quote from: funknut on May 14, 2016, 08:22:04 AM
Quote from: Derwud on May 12, 2016, 10:26:39 PM
Saw this a couple of years ago at Spring or Fall Fling in Cali..
I wasn't able to see your image, but you inspired me to do some searching and I came across this, just what I was looking for!
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=37105 (http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=104&t=37105)
(http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz224/ntstlgl1970/9cdf7bb0.jpg)
Same Car and Engine..
That guy is a member over at Cuda-Challenger as well. He swapped to a Gen3 hemi since that build. Real nice car
Welp.....
Looks like I jumped in with both feet on this project. The fuel pucks are done being cut! I made 100 of them. Now off to anodizing, then assembly. :D
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13226912_10206113457818026_6039028220928349886_n.jpg?oh=bab2a50af394253d6c2454c29f57de04&oe=57D511CD)
Quote from: redmist on May 18, 2016, 08:46:29 PM
Welp.....
Looks like I jumped in with both feet on this project. The fuel pucks are done being cut! I made 100 of them. Now off to anodizing, then assembly. :D
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13226912_10206113457818026_6039028220928349886_n.jpg?oh=bab2a50af394253d6c2454c29f57de04&oe=57D511CD)
Nice!!
Purdy...
You guys using CPS adapters, did you have any issues leaking oil? I've got oil coming out of mine. I have the SD adapter. I don't have a O ring or any gaskets installed. Did you all use anything to seal it? if so what worked?
Quote from: grnfsh on May 26, 2016, 08:29:53 AM
You guys using CPS adapters, did you have any issues leaking oil? I've got oil coming out of mine. I have the SD adapter. I don't have a O ring or any gaskets installed. Did you all use anything to seal it? if so what worked?
I haven't installed mine, but it came with both inner and outer o-rings. Did yours?
I don't have an O-Ring on my adapters, but mine is different then the SD concepts one. Never a single leak.
Ryan
UPDATE
I went out to check out the situation. I havent driven the car since I parked in the garage sunday. Looked under the hood and the noticed the bolt from the hold down just sitting on top of the bushing, the spacer was on the block. I thought to my self.. "that's odd" :o
Then i pulled the CPS and bushing out and realized the bolt actually snapped off in the block. Luckily i was able to extract the bolt without any drama there.
Thinking back, I did notice the CPS had a bit of a wobble but didnt think a whole lot of it. Obviously I should have.
So investigating further I notice the bushing was not really sitting flush. I had an earlier model bushing that i had bought and put that one in there to compare and it sat much better. used a stock distributor hold down to see if it wobbled and it did not.
Anyhow pretty sure I found my issue. Going to buy one of MechTech's hold downs and move on from there.
FYI the other one was an SD concepts bushing. one thing of note, when i first installed it. it was tough to get it in the hole. Real tight. I may have galled up the bushing getting it in, so I'm not ready to blame SD for this yet.
I got my bushing and toothed wheel adapter this past week so I'll see how well it fits up and report back. :2thumbs:
just an FYI on wobble for the cam bushing.... some of the block have extra casting flash that doesn't allow the bushing to seat properly. once this is removed there should be no more problems. if you don't want to grind the block, then you can grind some clearance into the cam bushing.
I have CPS bushings made and hold down clamps. The hold down clamp is designed to clamp over the CPS just like the original distributor was held down. The hold down clamp is made from stainless steel, the bushing aluminum. I did not use any orings because the original distributor uses a paper gasket part# FEL-PRO 6464 and the CPS uses a paper gasket part#FEL-PRO 70051.
Quote from: MechTech on June 02, 2016, 08:39:22 PM
I have CPS bushings made and hold down clamps. The hold down clamp is designed to clamp over the CPS just like the original distributor was held down. The hold down clamp is made from stainless steel, the bushing aluminum. I did not use any orings because the original distributor uses a paper gasket part# FEL-PRO 6464 and the CPS uses a paper gasket part#FEL-PRO 70051.
:2thumbs:
Redmist, do you have any idea what the tractor alternator puts out at idle? Does it keep up with your current EFI and modern electronics well? I have been planning on ordering one but was curious about output before I pull the trigger. Thanks, Clark.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00Q8LROIQ/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1LG9JP1GEU49C&coliid=INE7O8VJR3487
Yup,
It has done great honestly. I added two new mid-SPAL fans this winter and they hit the system real hard on startup. I see the gauge drop to 12 volts for a split second and then come right back up to 14 volts.
Zero problems so far!
Just what I wanted to hear! :2thumbs: Did you build custom brackets to mount it? Thanks a lot!! :yesnod:
Quote from: MechTech on June 02, 2016, 08:39:22 PM
I have CPS bushings made and hold down clamps. The hold down clamp is designed to clamp over the CPS just like the original distributor was held down. The hold down clamp is made from stainless steel, the bushing aluminum. I did not use any orings because the original distributor uses a paper gasket part# FEL-PRO 6464 and the CPS uses a paper gasket part#FEL-PRO 70051.
Are you selling these?
Quote from: GPULLER on June 06, 2016, 09:40:26 AM
Quote from: MechTech on June 02, 2016, 08:39:22 PM
I have CPS bushings made and hold down clamps. The hold down clamp is designed to clamp over the CPS just like the original distributor was held down. The hold down clamp is made from stainless steel, the bushing aluminum. I did not use any orings because the original distributor uses a paper gasket part# FEL-PRO 6464 and the CPS uses a paper gasket part#FEL-PRO 70051.
Are you selling these?
Yes I am contact me via Personal Message
just got one of MechTech's hold down brackets. Real nice piece, I am real happy with it.
:cheers:
Question about wiring of the CPS. When looking at the Crankshaft Position Sensor wiring connector, positioned as in the attached picture -Which of the small wire pins is/does what, lets say from Left #1, Middle #2 and Right #3 ?? One I assume is Ground, one Voltage supply (-How much is the the supply voltage?) and the Signal of the camshaft position.. -Correct???
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a225/Gimmegimmies/Carburetor/689-200-001_zpsdxezq9yd.jpg) (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/Gimmegimmies/media/Carburetor/689-200-001_zpsdxezq9yd.jpg.html)
Thanks!!! :2thumbs:
/Tom
The 3 leads are ground, +5V and signal. I can't help you with which is which, but if you get the pigtail it will have the standard color wires and you can work it out from the wiring diagram. Are you planning to wire directly to it or use the stock connector?
Quote from: funknut on July 14, 2016, 09:54:42 AM
The 3 leads are ground, +5V and signal. I can't help you with which is which, but if you get the pigtail it will have the standard color wires and you can work it out from the wiring diagram. Are you planning to wire directly to it or use the stock connector?
Thanks :2thumbs:
Gonna use a "stock" pigtail connector. I´m still planing and checking out parts... Gonna go the Holley HP ECU route though...
/Tom
Quote from: Mefirst on July 13, 2016, 10:29:21 PM
:cheers:
Question about wiring of the CPS. When looking at the Crankshaft Position Sensor wiring connector, positioned as in the attached picture -Which of the small wire pins is/does what, lets say from Left #1, Middle #2 and Right #3 ?? One I assume is Ground, one Voltage supply (-How much is the the supply voltage?) and the Signal of the camshaft position.. -Correct???
Thanks!!! :2thumbs:
/Tom
:2thumbs:
I find it strange a thread like this, filled with knowledge/information and awesomeness, is just left floating around in the Non-Tech part of the forum...
..so... -WHY is this thread not moved and pinned as a Sticky in ex. the "Performance Corner"?? This thread is probably one of the best/most informative threads ever started in the history of this forum!
/Tom
I will take this statement and up it to best thread started in the history of many forums...
Mike
Quote from: Mefirst on July 23, 2016, 01:27:14 AM
:2thumbs:
I find it strange a thread like this, filled with knowledge/information and awesomeness, is just left floating around in the Non-Tech part of the forum...
..so... -WHY is this thread not moved and pinned as a Sticky in ex. the "Performance Corner"?? This thread is probably one of the best/most informative threads ever started in the history of this forum!
/Tom
This might be another solution for the small block and the "B" engine big block guys. Available from the 1st of August apparently. Things are starting to get really interesting. EFI is getting cheaper and cheaper.... closer and closer.... well, I dare to dream.... :scratchchin:
https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hly-534-216/overview/
I now have these for sale for those looking to try this EFI gig.
This unit is a universal system that works with the tanksinc fuel tanks. They are now shipping!
jakefab fuel puck + Aeromotive 340 pump + Tanksinc tank = a very very nice setup for a great price.
www.jakefab.com (http://www.jakefab.com)
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah294/TZLVredmist/IMAG1279-1_zps7dww0p8q.jpg)
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah294/TZLVredmist/IMAG1098_zps5bsn1pxi.jpg)
Fittings installed, and attached to a Aeromotive Phantom340 PN: 11540
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah294/TZLVredmist/IMAG1116_zps9nnff5ve.jpg)
Installed in the Tanksinc Fuel tank
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah294/TZLVredmist/IMAG1119_zps0pa0k7qs.jpg)
:o Awesomeness Ryan!
And it looks bullet-proof as well ! :icon_smile_big:
Seriously though, that is really cool. :coolgleamA:
:2thumbs:
For those w/ the D585 coils, are you using an off the shelf spark plug wire kit or are you cutting your own?
Quote from: shawge on August 16, 2016, 02:30:51 PM
For those w/ the D585 coils, are you using an off the shelf spark plug wire kit or are you cutting your own?
I cut my own. Bought LS coil ends off of ebay and made them out of my old MSD wires. I did this because I wasnt sure if the precut would be long enough for a 440 vs an actual LS.
I did the same... I later replaced them with a set of LS truck wires and they fit just fine.
Thanks guys! :cheers:
Hey everyone. I'd be interested in seeing the current tune that everyone is running. After a year of mostly not working on my car, I've got it running/idling/driving pretty well. Still need to work on initial startup though.
Seeing others .msq file for comparison is very informative along with the type of engine build for those working on the same/similar project. I'm interested in startup settings.
I'll start. My 440 is a stock (and probably tired) 78 unit from a motorhome. Using admittedly slightly undersized 19lb injectors for top end but ok for my use for now. No racing or very hard use just some spirited driving and fun cruising. Looking for smooth running and easy starts like a modern car.
I had to compress the .msq as it was just over the 200KB limit. The file is also a .zip and not a .jpg for the site to take it. Is there a better way to do this on this site?
Thanks
very nice tank adapter redmist, how much is the setup?
It's $120 for the install kit. https://jakefab.com/collections/all/products/fuelpuck (https://jakefab.com/collections/all/products/fuelpuck)
Lets do some math real fast!
$120 for the fuel puck, plus an Aeromotive pump = $230 + a tanks inc tank gets you a very nice setup for around $500 total.
If you want to go crazy, Holley now sells the hydromat for the 11mm pumps for $150
So for $650ish you can have a tanks inc tank, the jakefab fuel puck, an Aeromotive 340 pump, and the hydromat!
Compare that to the full tank solutions for quality of components vs price, and it's an awesome setup!
If someone wants a ready to go bolt in tank with everything installed, I would entertain doing that as well.
Ryan
Quote from: redmist on September 25, 2016, 11:01:02 AM
It's $120 for the install kit. https://jakefab.com/collections/all/products/fuelpuck (https://jakefab.com/collections/all/products/fuelpuck)
Lets do some math real fast!
$120 for the fuel puck, plus an Aeromotive pump = $230 + a tanks inc tank gets you a very nice setup for around $500 total.
If you want to go crazy, Holley now sells the hydromat for the 11mm pumps for $150
So for $650ish you can have a tanks inc tank, the jakefab fuel puck, an Aeromotive 340 pump, and the hydromat!
Compare that to the full tank solutions for quality of components vs price, and it's an awesome setup!
If someone wants a ready to go bolt in tank with everything installed, I would entertain doing that as well.
Ryan
Thanks for the info Ryan, I just put my order in for a fuel puck. Hopefully it won't take too long to get to Perth AU. That hydramat stuff is awesome, I had a look at the Holley site. Off to ebay now to get the pump. :coolgleamA:
Thank you for the business!
Hi Ryan
I have been looking to buy the Tank inc complete set up for my Charger. Now that I see your parts, I'm hesitating. What's the plus of your parts instead of the thank inc ? Obviously your is aluminium and look much better but performance wise there is an advantage of your puck ?
thank you
Mine has modular 1/4" NPT Ports in all locations.
It also has stainless worm drive clamps instead of zip ties. It has a stainless crush sleeve in the tubeing as well. The wire pass-through eliminates the screw on ring terminal connection also.
And it's about the same price after you buy the pump.... It's a no brainer. :yesnod:
This may have been covered and I missed it...Will the fuel puck work with the Tanks Inc. sending unit? If not, what are some options? Thanks.
It will work with the tanks in sending unit yes, It's just a replacement for the pump unit side of things, the sending unit side remains the same.
If anyone is looking for a turn key setup (Tank, Puck, Pump, Sender) ready to wire and connect, I can quote that out based on car.
Ryan
Great, I will be re-reading this thread this weekend..
Okay, still riding the fence.. Do I drop the 1200 hundred or so on a Fitech TBI to get my car running and start getting the parts together for this and sell it when I am done.. Or, Get the manifold and start piecing this together, doing ECM and wiring last? Last wrinkle, FiTech port EFI to a full Sequential system using a MS3 box and a different throttle body?
I did not build the engine and powertrain to compromise, but I am itching to hear it Run, but hate to waste money on something I don't plan on keeping.
Lastly, where is the best price for the Edelbrock TPI manifold??
Hi Derwud
Just to make a suggestion this is sorta the way I went about it. If you still have your carb, intake and ignition system get the car running then add the MS3X controller and an O2 sensor. Then you would be able to get used to the controller with the communication and settings. Next you could add a trigger wheel for a tach signal then if you are currently using and MSD unit you would be able to run the ignition off of the controller which will improve timing accuracy. When you are ready for the next step add sequential spark by adding the cam sensor and coils. After that add the Edelbrock Pro Flow. The key is it does not have to be all done at once it's a modular system. This way you don't have to spend loads of time wiring it up all at once and you have less issues to deal with all at once.
Quote from: MechTech on October 24, 2016, 07:06:28 PM
Hi Derwud
Just to make a suggestion this is sorta the way I went about it. If you still have your carb, intake and ignition system get the car running then add the MS3X controller and an O2 sensor. Then you would be able to get used to the controller with the communication and settings. Next you could add a trigger wheel for a tach signal then if you are currently using and MSD unit you would be able to run the ignition off of the controller which will improve timing accuracy. When you are ready for the next step add sequential spark by adding the cam sensor and coils. After that add the Edelbrock Pro Flow. The key is it does not have to be all done at once it's a modular system. This way you don't have to spend loads of time wiring it up all at once and you have less issues to deal with all at once.
Yeah, I don't have a carb or an ign system beyond dist and coil. I planned on going FI from the start, Tanks Inc tank with in tank pump and built everything around that thinking. Was going to go FAST, then FiTech, now I want to join the big boys league. I have the trigger, just need it milled and welded to the pulley. Also the Jeep Cam sensor adapter. So I have a good base..
I agree I don't want to have to go around in circles if it does not work, but I have to hope my Automotive training will get me through any rough spots...
It is going to cost more, but like everything else I have bought for the car so far, do it once, do it right.. Thanks for spoiling my easy way out...
Now anyone wanna sell their intake??
Anyone running A/C with this set-up?
I'm running A/C with the MS3 on a 440 with the Edelbrock Pro Flo manifold. I might have posted a picture on this tread if you search for it, or I can post one when I get home tonite.
Quote from: 74bluefish on October 26, 2016, 05:37:45 AM
I'm running A/C with the MS3 on a 440 with the Edelbrock Pro Flo manifold. I might have posted a picture on this tread if you search for it, or I can post one when I get home tonite.
Found it, thanks!!! That wiring looks FUN....
Here is what I am dealing with.
Nice , I like the serpentine system. I would have like to done that too, but trying to keep the costs down.
Yeah, I hate belt squeal and it wasn't priced to bad... CVF Racing...
Nice. I've had that serp setup saved in my favorites/watch for a while.
Quote from: igozumn on October 27, 2016, 09:03:45 AM
Nice. I've had that serp setup saved in my favorites/watch for a while.
Worth EVERY PENNY!!!
For those with the Jeep CPS, did you find a need a add a 1k pullup between Vref and signal?
Quote from: shawge on October 27, 2016, 01:43:54 PM
For those with the Jeep CPS, did you find a need a add a 1k pullup between Vref and signal?
I have never had one in my setup
I didn't use the resistor either.
Quote from: Derwud on October 26, 2016, 08:48:22 AM
Quote from: 74bluefish on October 26, 2016, 05:37:45 AM
I'm running A/C with the MS3 on a 440 with the Edelbrock Pro Flo manifold. I might have posted a picture on this tread if you search for it, or I can post one when I get home tonite.
Found it, thanks!!! That wiring looks FUN....
Here is what I am dealing with.
you guys and your fancy accessories, I have one belt for my alternator and that's it. LOL.... hahaha! :smilielol: :hah:
(secretly wants his power steering and power brakes back) :'( ::)
Hey if anyone is interested, I just bought half of a dual quad throttle body setup of the FAST variety. The guy still has the other throttle body and wants to sell it. I picked up just the one for $390 and I nearly bought both for $700, that's all he wanted. I had to pass on it and just grab the one but if anyone wants the other one then ping the guy a message. He's near Anna, Illinois. Ebay no. #112187811713.
Quote from: grnfsh on November 02, 2016, 07:36:30 AM
Quote from: Derwud on October 26, 2016, 08:48:22 AM
Quote from: 74bluefish on October 26, 2016, 05:37:45 AM
I'm running A/C with the MS3 on a 440 with the Edelbrock Pro Flo manifold. I might have posted a picture on this tread if you search for it, or I can post one when I get home tonite.
Found it, thanks!!! That wiring looks FUN....
Here is what I am dealing with.
you guys and your fancy accessories, I have one belt for my alternator and that's it. LOL.... hahaha! :smilielol: :hah:
(secretly wants his power steering and power brakes back) :'( ::)
Nothing fancy here. Just adapt Magnum accessories.
90% is bolt on. Unfortunately the 10% is not simple.
(http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s540/74chlngerTT5_9/Mopar/Mockup/Mockup2/CIMG5826_zpsb5adcb14.jpg) (http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/74chlngerTT5_9/media/Mopar/Mockup/Mockup2/CIMG5826_zpsb5adcb14.jpg.html)
Quote from: redmist on October 04, 2016, 11:59:29 PM
Mine has modular 1/4" NPT Ports in all locations.
It also has stainless worm drive clamps instead of zip ties. It has a stainless crush sleeve in the tubeing as well. The wire pass-through eliminates the screw on ring terminal connection also.
And it's about the same price after you buy the pump.... It's a no brainer. :yesnod:
Just ordered a fuel puck for my new efi tank. I also ordered an Aeromotive 340 pump #11540 to finish it off. Thanks for the time and effort to make cool functional stuff for our old iron.
Awesome!
Let us know what you think about the install and product.
Ryan
Hey Redmist, did you get yours on boost yet?
Quote from: redmist on December 30, 2016, 02:01:27 AM
Awesome!
Let us know what you think about the install and product.
Ryan
Will do. I will try to post some after pics. When is the fuel distribution block going to be available?
FYI
I had been experiencing a lot of heat in my fuel tank almost to hot to put my hand on so I installed one of these Aeromotive pump speed controllers. It seemed to have helped. It was easy to install and setup. I did install the bypass switch so that I had full pressure when cranking.
https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/billet-fuel-pump-speed-controller/
Quote from: MechTech on December 31, 2016, 08:11:30 PM
FYI
I had been experiencing a lot of heat in my fuel tank almost to hot to put my hand on so I installed one of these Aeromotive pump speed controllers. It seemed to have helped. It was easy to install and setup. I did install the bypass switch so that I had full pressure when cranking.
https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/billet-fuel-pump-speed-controller/
I'm curious to know how you knew you had too much heat in your fuel tank?
hi grnfsh
I installed a fuel cell in the trunk so I was able to put my hand on it and it was almost to hot to keep my hand on which meant it was close 125deg. I assumed that was because of all the fuel the pump recirculates through the tank and that's why Aeromotive makes this controller. I wont know if that solved the problem till next summer but the tank is cooler
Quote from: redmist on December 30, 2016, 02:01:27 AM
Awesome!
Let us know what you think about the install and product.
Ryan
Got the fuel puck installed last night. Quality piece.
Forgot one.
:2thumbs:
what did you guys use for a gasket for the tanks inc sending unit? I tried to make a gasket but pretty sure it leaks when the tank is full and gas splashes up against it.
Everything I've read says cork gaskets with some aircraft sealant (or other gas-resistant gasket goo) is the way to go.
Getting started on adding this huge turbo. I am planning on using the DIY boost control valve and the MS3X for control. I have removed the original gas tank and now have a fuel cell in the trunk. I am planning on putting the turbo behind the rear axle. This is a stock 440 block so I am limiting the boost pressure to 3psi.
Cool and keep us posted.
If you have your own build thread let us all know about it.
Mike
Quote from: YellowThumper on February 19, 2017, 12:58:03 PM
Cool and keep us posted.
If you have your own build thread let us all know about it.
Mike
Indeed! It will be several years off for me, but I'm also looking at a rear-mount turbo setup.
Quote from: funknut on January 31, 2017, 02:49:28 PM
Everything I've read says cork gaskets with some aircraft sealant (or other gas-resistant gasket goo) is the way to go.
I'm a little late here, but this is absolutely correct. Do not use the supplied rubber gaskets, they are crap!
You'll have to order the cork ones separately, but theyll work great along with the aircraft sealer.
Hello all. Not trying to hijack thread but have been keeping up on it for a while. Just wanted to thank resist for posting all the info. I finished up install of MS3 on a 440 yesterday and went for about 30-40 mile drive no issues but some fine tuning still needing to be done
Quote from: pwmcharge on February 20, 2017, 01:05:26 PM
Hello all. Not trying to hijack thread but have been keeping up on it for a while. Just wanted to thank resist for posting all the info. I finished up install of MS3 on a 440 yesterday and went for about 30-40 mile drive no issues but some fine tuning still needing to be done
Nice! Out of curiosity, what did you use for your crank reluctor and sensor?
Right now just fuel only. Getting tach signal from distributor controlling msd box
Quote from: pwmcharge on February 21, 2017, 08:04:36 AM
Right now just fuel only. Getting tach signal from distributor controlling msd box
Cool! :2thumbs:
Like others, I've been inspired by this thread. My '67 is now running an MS2 for both fuel and spark. I just got the timing under MS2 control day before yesterday. For now, I'm using an MSD through the distributor, with the crank wheel controlling the timing. I'll be going to LS coils soon, but I wanted to try it with something that was easily reversible. In this case, I just have to plug the distrbutor back into the MSD to be back the way I was. I already have the distributor eliminator/Jeep cam sensor piece, but as I think about it, I just need a plug since i am going wasted spark. No cam signal neccessary. MS2 won't hande 8 ignition channels, and I don't see going to an MS3 in the cards. I'll be CNCing some sweet little coil brackets as soon as I can get a few hours in my shop. I'll post them up later if anyone is interested. Whole package for 4 coils is only 10" long as opposed to something like 17" for the original arrangement.
Until the other day the last page of this thread I read was 10 or 11. Planning on hoarding parts over summer to go sequential next winter. Did those can sensor bushing go into production?
Get a hold of Jerry @ SDConcepts or MechTech. I bought my bushings from SDConcepts and MechTech came out with one that looks nice and uses a hold down bracket that looks stock.
I have Bushings and Hold Down clamps, Crank trigger and sensor bracket for aluminum damper only on hand. I have a coil bracket designed I just need to make them.
Alright, I'd definitely be interested in bushing and hold down clamp.
Quote from: pwmcharge on February 23, 2017, 11:07:59 PM
Alright, I'd definitely be interested in bushing and hold down clamp.
FYI, I have his bushing and Hold down clamp and it works perfect.
Anyone up for sharing tunes? I've got a MS3x, NA 451, 55# MotorCraft injectors, D585 COPs. Waves look good in the composite logger. Verified TPS/CLT/IAT values and that the spark/injectors fire on the correct cylinders via Test Mode. Just waiting on a few more fuel fittings before I can fire it up.
I've copied redmist's stock and "vacuum" ignition tables. The AFR and VE tables are what I'm mostly concerned about. Don't want to grenade the engine.
Thanks all!
There is a VE generator in Tuner Studio that will get you at a basic starting point. :2thumbs:
Thanks! I know my idle, red line, and HP/torque peak values at RPM. Not so sure about the KPa load at idle and peak HP/torque.
Any guidelines here?
I have completed my first set of Coil Brackets. What do you all think? Is anybody interested in a set? These bolt on using the top two valve cover screws. The spacers are 2" long. I have the coil terminals and boots so that you can custom make the spark plug wires.
Will the brackets work with the LQ9 truck coils?
Quote from: 67Charger440 on March 29, 2017, 11:55:47 PM
Will the brackets work with the LQ9 truck coils?
I don't have one of those coils in hand but from the looks of their design I would say no
I have completed the install of the turbo. It was installed behind the rear axle. I had removed the gas tank a couple of years ago and installed a fuel cell in the trunk so this made room for the turbo where the gas tank was. So the turbo is hung the exhaust is run back to the turbo the waste gates are installed and the cold side is headed back to the front. As you can see in this picture the Blow-off valve is installed and pluming is complete to the intake. So the next thing is to connect the boost control lines to the waste-gate and control valve and figure out how to control it from the Megasquirt. I've been driving the car making sure the oil returns to the motor properly so far so good
Got my Manifold.
That AC compressor looks too close to the where the throttle body is going to sit. Is there clearance?
That's a great looking motor...engineering porn to folks like me...lol!
I hope that T/B clears the compressor..
Can't wait to get it in the car..
What specs or style injectors should I be looking into?
Siemens Deka 80 lbs are a solid bet. If you're buying them off ebay, beware. Lots of knock-offs out there.
Quote from: Derwud on April 29, 2017, 10:04:06 AM
I hope that T/B clears the compressor..
Can't wait to get it in the car..
Just a thought the Ross Machine Racing Throttle Body can be ordered with CW or CCW rotation of the bell-crank that way the bell-crank can be positioned on the passenger side of the intake. The 90mm version bolts directly to that intake.
I've recently set up megasquirt to run closed loop fueling. I'm pretty tickled with it because the last two times I've been to the track I have not needed to make any changes to the fuel table it runs exactly what I have in the table. Prior times at the track it would take 3 passes to get close. Now its right on the first pass. The car ran 10.94 its never run that fast through the mufflers.
I had to rotate my ac compressor toward the valve cover and modify the bracket to clear the throttle body, but it fits. I have v belts, not the serpentine.
Good luck,
Dan
I have 4 complete sets made if anyone is interested. It does not include the boot set for making custom length wires.
Hey Mechtech, those coils look way different to the ones that I'm used to seeing, are they the extra high voltage ones?
They look like the D585 coils.
Yes they are the D585 coil. I like them because of the heatsink. Part of the reason for my bracket design is to get them away from the heat of the valve cover and exhaust manifold. I have them listed on Ebay if anyone is interested.
Out of interest, has anyone looked into the injector timing? i.e. the timing of when the injectors fire with the intake stroke and when this happens. Just chatting with a mate here and apparently the Megasquirt 3 units have this function built-in but hardly anyone uses it. He has an excel program that automatically calculates it out for you based on bore size, stroke, rod to piston ratio's, etc. looking at piston speeds and so forth. Am I playing catch-up here? :shruggy:
I have looked at that a little. Ive only changed the point when the injection cycle starts or stops. Pryor to installing the full sequential setup I ran batch fueling (four injectors fired simultaneously ). I have not seen much difference in ETs at the track. What is your buddies experience
Some tuners here have looked into it. It's only useful on sequential setups. They have seen gains on the LS motors of like 30 hp on 400-500 hp NA engines. If you want the excel file I can send it to your email address. Its only a small file but contains some useful information. The excel file also references the website: http://www.lmengines.com/piston-speed-calculator/.
Now with traction control.... :2thumbs:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/just-sharing-megasquirt-hemi-w-traction-control.393929/
im debating going megasquirt or fast stand alone for my 6.1 hemi setup. which would you run? i think the fast setup is more dummy proof
Quote from: Aussiemadonmopars on December 16, 2017, 03:02:14 AM
Now with traction control.... :2thumbs:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/just-sharing-megasquirt-hemi-w-traction-control.393929/
Wow, awesome...
Quote from: cbrestorations on December 16, 2017, 09:48:26 AM
im debating going megasquirt or fast stand alone for my 6.1 hemi setup. which would you run? i think the fast setup is more dummy proof
Can't say from personal experience too much but I have a Holley sniper self tune set up on an A body big block and I have the USB cable to be able to login in with a laptop. I would say it's not the same but similar. Megasquirt has a lot more functionality, like being able to change injector timing in the engine cycle. Once you get into any software and start using it, you get used to using it and get to know it. The Tuner Studio software on the megasquirt systems looks fairly basic and would be easy to use, a lot like the Holley software.
Check out the Megasquirt3 Gold Box from EFI Source. They Offer a Plug & Play wiring harness for the Gen3 Hemi and I think they have a base tune although I didn't see one on their web sight. I know they run a Gen3 hemi in their 69 barracuda. And you can talk to these guys on the phone. If you like toys Megasquirt3 has way more than a fast system.
It's been a while that I've seen this thread. Life got in the way and my car has been parked for over a year. I'm about ready to get back to where I left off. Would any of you guys be willing to post your tune? I mostly want to do some comparisons related to startup/warmup/idle. Not interested in a replacement for what I have.
Thanks
I'll try to get my tune to you tomorrow.
505 stroker with MS3
Dan
Quote from: Derwud on April 27, 2017, 09:31:11 AM
Got my Manifold.
Hi cool build!!!! Do you know if a 95 mm throttle body Will fit this intake if i take out some cast with a Cnc machine? I allready have a Nice tb . But i dont know if there is eunogh and tick aluminium to grind 2.5 mm out of it??
I don't know for sure I'm guessing it will fit, but if you have a CNC on hand I am sure that you have the measuring tools necessary to make the proper measurements.
Just ordered my fuel rails. What is everyone using for Injectors. I should be around 600 Hp. I am thinking the 2013 Ford GT500 Injectors, but I might need a little more flow.
The Ford ones are very reasonably priced.
Siemens Deka injectors are very popular and not hugely more expensive. They have them in 60 and 80 lb/hr.
Yeah, I would rather pay now to get the Deka 60Lbs, but I am not sure I need the 80Lbs..
I went w/ the Ford injectors. Are you able to crank up the fuel pressure?
#/hr psi bar
55 39.1 2.7 bar
60 43.5 3 bar
69 58 4 bar
77 72.5 5 bar
Well Look what Edelbrock did.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920)
Quote from: Derwud on July 03, 2018, 02:14:29 PM
Well Look what Edelbrock did.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920)
Shabam!!!!
Took them long enough. LOL!
Quote from: Derwud on July 03, 2018, 02:14:29 PM
Well Look what Edelbrock did.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920)
Wonder if the timing control supports distributorless ignitions?
Quote from: Derwud on July 03, 2018, 02:14:29 PM
Well Look what Edelbrock did.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920)
Subject to how good it actually works I would say that looks pretty good value for money!
Quote from: alfaitalia on July 04, 2018, 04:01:37 AM
Quote from: Derwud on July 03, 2018, 02:14:29 PM
Well Look what Edelbrock did.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920)
Subject to how good it actually works I would say that looks pretty good value for money!
For this price, you can get the car up and running on EFI and then do a Mega Squirt upgrade later.
hi,
First of all, this is a GREAT thread !!
I found/stumbled upon this thread while searching for info on cam position sensors for a sequential fuel and spark application. While mine is not a Dodge Charger application (it's a 1957 392 hemi with Hilborn injection), the Jeep/Dorman cam position sensor almost fits like a glove. I won't burden you with any of my "forum inappropriate details", but I would like to raise one point that I haven't seen mentioned.
Is there a lubrication requirement for the Jeep CPS ? There's a hole in the casting that implies to me that oiling is intended. The guys at the machine shop who are making my adapter say "if that's a bushing, it should be lubricated".
Has anyone who's gone this route taken steps to get oil to the CPS... or not taken any such steps and put on lots of miles with no problems?
Quote from: Derwud on July 04, 2018, 08:43:35 AM
Quote from: alfaitalia on July 04, 2018, 04:01:37 AM
Quote from: Derwud on July 03, 2018, 02:14:29 PM
Well Look what Edelbrock did.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920)
Subject to how good it actually works I would say that looks pretty good value for money!
For this price, you can get the car up and running on EFI and then do a Mega Squirt upgrade later.
I doubt that would fit under a stock hood.....
In this thread, there are a few people running the same manifold.. So it seems to fit.
Quote from: Derwud on July 27, 2018, 07:30:22 AM
In this thread, there are a few people running the same manifold.. So it seems to fit.
I can't find any pics of this set up under a stock hood, so if you have any please post. It just looks awful tall.
Within these 39 pages, there are people running this manifold with stock hoods. I have seen on a few E-Bodies and have seen pictures outside this thread with stock hoods.
Isn't it the same one that Redmist is running?
It's much lower profile than a regular intake, carb and filter.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TvUMCIM62NM/UWR6_U3ehLI/AAAAAAAAADk/8BoN7lf5sEM/s912/efi29.jpg)
:drool5: That was the plan before I found Fitech. Had started buying parts and was looking at deals on the bare XT manifold. If I build another engine, I'd probably go with this.
Pro Flow Big Block with AC In a Barracuda 1974
(https://s26.postimg.cc/63labgn9l/DSCN0021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/9n7819pz9/)
Rally Hood
(https://s26.postimg.cc/8kx1iqevt/DSCN0024.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/i5go5m47p/)
Just curious...
Outside of the Cuda pictured above, what is everyone's solution for the water neck & upper radiator hose vs the intake/filter when going with the XT?
The new kit seems like a pretty good value, but that front end seems like it would be challenging.
Quote from: Derwud on July 03, 2018, 02:14:29 PM
Well Look what Edelbrock did.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35920)
Yep... but still nothing for the low deck big blocks.... :rotz:
I know I am waaaayyyyy late to this party but is the bushing and hold down clamp available anywhere? I looked on ds-concepts web site and I dont see it. Thanks!
Check SD Concepts.
(http://sdconcepts.com/products/)
A.) This thread is amazing. I joined just to participate, even though I've got Satellites, not Chargers. Hopefully y'all can spare some love for your Plymouth cousins. ;)
B.) I think the most beautiful sentence I've read in the entire thread was from Elacruze, who said: "I've had two tanksful over 23mpg with my 505 stroker[.]" Since I'm planning on a 505 (New Mexico power! :D ) that's music to my ears.
I've got my Pro Flo XT intake already, and I'm slowly collecting the other parts. I'm a machinist (among other things) so I think I'm going to try my hand at making my own CPS bushing, crank trigger wheel, and a couple other parts.
-Ogre
I still have CPS bushings and a hold-down clamp made specifically for the Jeep CPS. I also have Coil brackets, crank trigger wheels and crank sensor brackets.
Its been a tough summer and I hate that winter is coming because I think I have finally sorted out all of the problems I've had with my setup. I wanted to make you all aware so you can hopefully avoid the same issues. The first issue I had was on a 1/4mile pass in Oct. 2017 I finally got the turbo control figured out and I was making a awesome pass when the motor shuttered, I let out of it and got to the pits and the motor had a knock in it. Now you might think the knock had something to do with the motor shuttering but there were 2 problems showing up at the same time. The knock turned out to be a piston slapping because the piston skirt had .013 wear on it. It took me till the following May to figure that out. I've only recently become aware of what was the culprit. I pulled all of the pistons out of the motor. None of the pistons on the passenger side of the motor had any wear on the skirt on the drivers side cylinder #1 had the most wear and was causing the knocking #3 had less wear 5 and 7 had deceasing amounts. The block was also scoured. I had been trying to figure out what would cause this to happen and was talking to local racer that runs fuel injection on his Ford. He says that cylinder was running to lean and burnt the oil so the cylinder lost its lubrication but it was not hot enough to burn the piston. So that made sense to me and I recently figured out what may have caused that to occur which is what I want to make you aware of. I think it was caused by the way I have the fuel system setup. The fuel comes into the front of passenger side fuel rail goes from the back thru a hose to the back of the drivers side fuel rail at the front end I have a fuel pressure regulator that sends the excess fuel back to the tank. I think that setup is causing the #1 cylinder to starve for fuel. What I am going to do to fix it is run a hose between the front of both fuel rails making a complete circle. I'm hoping that will keep even pressure through out the system. I'm also going to keep a close eye on my plugs and make sure they all look the same. One of the cool things about a fully sequential setup is that you can adjust the fuel per cylinder. Ill explain the next issue I had soon
Thanks for that update! How much are you asking for all those goodies???
Secondly, I'm guessing you're trying to squeeze out every last bit of performance, could you setup your headers to monitor the EGT's? That would tell you if you're running lean on each cylinder. Just a thought.
Quote from: MechTech on November 22, 2018, 12:25:15 PM
Its been a tough summer and I hate that winter is coming because I think I have finally sorted out all of the problems I've had with my setup. I wanted to make you all aware so you can hopefully avoid the same issues. The first issue I had was on a 1/4mile pass in Oct. 2017 I finally got the turbo control figured out and I was making a awesome pass when the motor shuttered, I let out of it and got to the pits and the motor had a knock in it. Now you might think the knock had something to do with the motor shuttering but there were 2 problems showing up at the same time. The knock turned out to be a piston slapping because the piston skirt had .013 wear on it. It took me till the following May to figure that out. I've only recently become aware of what was the culprit. I pulled all of the pistons out of the motor. None of the pistons on the passenger side of the motor had any wear on the skirt on the drivers side cylinder #1 had the most wear and was causing the knocking #3 had less wear 5 and 7 had deceasing amounts. The block was also scoured. I had been trying to figure out what would cause this to happen and was talking to local racer that runs fuel injection on his Ford. He says that cylinder was running to lean and burnt the oil so the cylinder lost its lubrication but it was not hot enough to burn the piston. So that made sense to me and I recently figured out what may have caused that to occur which is what I want to make you aware of. I think it was caused by the way I have the fuel system setup. The fuel comes into the front of passenger side fuel rail goes from the back thru a hose to the back of the drivers side fuel rail at the front end I have a fuel pressure regulator that sends the excess fuel back to the tank. I think that setup is causing the #1 cylinder to starve for fuel. What I am going to do to fix it is run a hose between the front of both fuel rails making a complete circle. I'm hoping that will keep even pressure through out the system. I'm also going to keep a close eye on my plugs and make sure they all look the same. One of the cool things about a fully sequential setup is that you can adjust the fuel per cylinder. Ill explain the next issue I had soon
Are you running 02 sensors on both banks? I wonder if you would see some weird variations on the left bank from the O2 sensor using an Oscilloscope.
Strange that it didn't show up when I looked before I posted the last time, but it looks like Summit is still having their 50th anniversary sale for the rest of the month. $50 off an order of $500, which means the XT manifold works out to about $469 shipped.
Currently I am running left and right sensors and I have installed O2 bungs in every cylinder but I have not started monitoring them individually yet. 14point7.com has a device called Mega Spartan that I have been drooling over for sometime, with it I can monitor 8 cylinders with O2 sensors (the base model comes with 2) it communicates via the Can/Bus of the MegaSquirt 3. I believe the LSU4.9 Bosch O2 sensor will give me a much more accurate and a quicker reading than a temp sensor. I am not certain at this point the way I had the fuel system setup caused the problem with the pistons it just seems highly suspect so I made the change I wrote about and I will closely monitor #1 cylinder and see if it changes.
I've had these parts advertised for $450 all together I will also sell them individually if you would like. The trigger wheel can only be used with an Aluminum damper. It uses a Hall sensor.
So, with the big sale at Summit I want to buy as much of this stuff as I can.
Redmist, do you have a list of all the required parts?
Manifold, obviously.
CPS, fuel rails, fuel injectors.
I'm running a '74 Satellite, so, not fancy in-tank pump setup for me, at least not the nice one that y'all are using.
What sort of fuel pump setup should I run?
Fuel lines will be needed, of course.
Any other bits and bobs I should look for while everything is discounted?
Sorry, I don't have a list....
And I no longer have my car. :'( :icon_smile_cool: It went to Australia!
I do still sell the Jakefab Fuel Pucks that work for the EFI conversions in the Tanks Inc tanks.
I am building a Twin Turbo Aluminator 1965 F-100 to replace the Charger.
Sounds like a fun project! Do you have a build thread somewhere? I enjoyed your Charger build and would like to see what you're up to on this one too. :)
Morning All...
What is everyone using for a Thermostat housing with the XT Manifold?
I am not using anything special, basically stock looking just chromed.