Will Electric Cars Outsell Internal Combustion

[tan top]

A double standard of what?

I reference the double standard that an elite F1 driver has where on one hand, he preaches on twitter about being vegan and banning plastic and going carbon neutral and then jumps in his private plane to race around the world along with his team and the equipment burning ridiculous amounts of fuel.  

If he was so worried about being carbon neutral, shouldn't he quit being an F1 driver and forfeit his multi million dollar contract?


Is that the wrong use of the term double standard?

To tan top.

 
well IMO  there is all this  talk how  we have got to save the environment  fossil fuels are bad  , but nothing is done about air travel  or any of the other polluting devices !  every one backs & uses air travel, & don't think it even enters the head of  the people who say cars with their internal combustion engines are bad , imo think cutting down & destroying rain forests & large numbers of trees around the world is doing more damage .
i think globel warming is just  natural progression of the world , ice caps melting ! yes but that's what ice does eventually !  wasn't there a discovery recently that millions of years ago, Antarctic was tropical before the ice , apparently due to the type of  fossilized tree & plant remains were discovered there only because of the melting ice .  

if your going to do away with internal combustion engines  , you need to stop everything else that pollutes ,  
yes I agree that there is scientific reports whats causing global warming , but  any & all manufacturing processes contribute to it in some way even guy having a fire in their back yard  or burning wood / coal  for heating ,   two stroke chain saws & mowers  firework displays  new years eve , where do you stop.  modern cars now are pretty clean burning compare to ole muscle cars , two stroke engines garden waste burning & firework smoke even walking  close to someone smoking  in the street affects an asthma sufferer more than a modern cars exhaust fumes, imo diesels different story

[Mytur Binsdirti]

 
well IMO  there is all this  talk how  we have got to save the environment  fossil fuels are bad  , but nothing is done about air travel  or any of the other polluting devices !  every one backs & uses air travel, & don't think it even enters the head of  the people who say cars with their internal combustion engines are bad , imo think cutting down & destroying rain forests & large numbers of trees around the world is doing more damage .
i think globel warming is just  natural progression of the world , ice caps melting ! yes but that's what ice does eventually !  wasn't there a discovery recently that millions of years ago, Antarctic was tropical before the ice , apparently due to the type of  fossilized tree & plant remains were discovered there only because of the melting ice .  

if your going to do away with internal combustion engines  , you need to stop everything else that pollutes ,  
yes I agree that there is scientific reports whats causing global warming , but  any & all manufacturing processes contribute to it in some way even guy having a fire in their back yard  or burning wood / coal  for heating ,   two stroke chain saws & mowers  firework displays  new years eve , where do you stop.
 

Wow, I'm not used to seeing a Tan Top post without any pictures!     

[Kern Dog]

People like to complain about the cost of gasoline, and the petro companies screwing everyone, but consider for a movement that Pennsylvania make 2x to 3x what Exxon makes on a gallon of gasoline.  The state alone will have to recover the billions of $ in lost gasoline tax revenue somehow.

It is like that here in California as well. The government makes more on the product than the company producing the product.
That is criminal. It is essentially a legitimized Mafia strong arm tactic.

[alfaitalia]

A double standard of what?

I reference the double standard that an elite F1 driver has where on one hand, he preaches on twitter about being vegan and banning plastic and going carbon neutral and then jumps in his private plane to race around the world along with his team and the equipment burning ridiculous amounts of fuel.  

If he was so worried about being carbon neutral, shouldn't he quit being an F1 driver and forfeit his multi million dollar contract?


Is that the wrong use of the term double standard?

To tan top.

 
well IMO  there is all this  talk how  we have got to save the environment  fossil fuels are bad  , but nothing is done about air travel  or any of the other polluting devices !  every one backs & uses air travel, & don't think it even enters the head of  the people who say cars with their internal combustion engines are bad , imo think cutting down & destroying rain forests & large numbers of trees around the world is doing more damage .
i think globel warming is just  natural progression of the world , ice caps melting ! yes but that's what ice does eventually !  wasn't there a discovery recently that millions of years ago, Antarctic was tropical before the ice , apparently due to the type of  fossilized tree & plant remains were discovered there only because of the melting ice .  

if your going to do away with internal combustion engines  , you need to stop everything else that pollutes ,  
yes I agree that there is scientific reports whats causing global warming , but  any & all manufacturing processes contribute to it in some way even guy having a fire in their back yard  or burning wood / coal  for heating ,   two stroke chain saws & mowers  firework displays  new years eve , where do you stop.  modern cars now are pretty clean burning compare to ole muscle cars , two stroke engines garden waste burning & firework smoke even walking  close to someone smoking  in the street affects an asthma sufferer more than a modern cars exhaust fumes, imo diesels different story

Ermmm....the only reason the Antarctic was tropical before the ice is that the Antactic was MUCH further North back then due to tectonic plate movement.

[alfaitalia]

I don't believe it is "when" or "if" Electric vehicles take over.... as much as I do believe Carbon "pricing" will dominate globally, as we see the effect of climate change become more and more severe and begin to reduce ghg emissions.

Not going to get into whether anyone does or doesn't believe in man-made climate change from burning Fossil Fuels.... that's your choice to believe whatever you want I guess ?
same as it is my choice to believe what I wish....
based on living rurally here in Canada and seeing the effects first hand, and happening much faster than any "predictions" I've seen ?

Anyways,
I believe Carbon Pricing will eventually relegate Fossil Fuels as too expensive, both from a monetary and carbon/climate based perspective as ghg Emissions aren't "free" anymore ?
with sub-1 litre internal combustion commuter box engines supplementing primarily Electric drive trains in Vehicles, especially in under 100 mile commuter ranges.

The Electric Technology is here, and IMO will eventually dominate.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50460241

I read the other day that Canada has the fastest climate change with the fastest increasing average temperature in the World....

[odcics2]

Canada is #6 on the list for cleanest air 

Australia - average PM 2.5 concentration: 5.7
Brunei - 6.6
New Zealand - 6.8
Estonia - 7.2
Finland - 7.3
Canada - 7.5
Iceland - 8.2
Sweden - 8.7
Ireland - 8.8
Liberia - 9.3

How do they account for prevailing wind?

[tan top]

A double standard of what?

I reference the double standard that an elite F1 driver has where on one hand, he preaches on twitter about being vegan and banning plastic and going carbon neutral and then jumps in his private plane to race around the world along with his team and the equipment burning ridiculous amounts of fuel.  

If he was so worried about being carbon neutral, shouldn't he quit being an F1 driver and forfeit his multi million dollar contract?


Is that the wrong use of the term double standard?

To tan top.

 
well IMO  there is all this  talk how  we have got to save the environment  fossil fuels are bad  , but nothing is done about air travel  or any of the other polluting devices !  every one backs & uses air travel, & don't think it even enters the head of  the people who say cars with their internal combustion engines are bad , imo think cutting down & destroying rain forests & large numbers of trees around the world is doing more damage .
i think globel warming is just  natural progression of the world , ice caps melting ! yes but that's what ice does eventually !  wasn't there a discovery recently that millions of years ago, Antarctic was tropical before the ice , apparently due to the type of  fossilized tree & plant remains were discovered there only because of the melting ice .  

if your going to do away with internal combustion engines  , you need to stop everything else that pollutes ,  
yes I agree that there is scientific reports whats causing global warming , but  any & all manufacturing processes contribute to it in some way even guy having a fire in their back yard  or burning wood / coal  for heating ,   two stroke chain saws & mowers  firework displays  new years eve , where do you stop.  modern cars now are pretty clean burning compare to ole muscle cars , two stroke engines garden waste burning & firework smoke even walking  close to someone smoking  in the street affects an asthma sufferer more than a modern cars exhaust fumes, imo diesels different story

Ermmm....the only reason the Antarctic was tropical before the ice is that the Antactic was MUCH further North back then due to tectonic plate movement.

that's interesting  never saw/  must of missed that bit ! if that's the case ignore what I said  
will have search & read  

[Mytur Binsdirti]

I don't believe it is "when" or "if" Electric vehicles take over.... as much as I do believe Carbon "pricing" will dominate globally, as we see the effect of climate change become more and more severe and begin to reduce ghg emissions.

Not going to get into whether anyone does or doesn't believe in man-made climate change from burning Fossil Fuels.... that's your choice to believe whatever you want I guess ?
same as it is my choice to believe what I wish....
based on living rurally here in Canada and seeing the effects first hand, and happening much faster than any "predictions" I've seen ?

Anyways,
I believe Carbon Pricing will eventually relegate Fossil Fuels as too expensive, both from a monetary and carbon/climate based perspective as ghg Emissions aren't "free" anymore ?
with sub-1 litre internal combustion commuter box engines supplementing primarily Electric drive trains in Vehicles, especially in under 100 mile commuter ranges.

The Electric Technology is here, and IMO will eventually dominate.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50460241

I read the other day that Canada has the fastest climate change with the fastest increasing average temperature in the World....

If that's true, it's got to be from billions of beer induced farts.

[BSB67]

if your going to do away with internal combustion engines  , you need to stop everything else that pollutes ,  

You're kinda all over the map.

The idea of not working on auto ICE because you cannot stop all pollution is silly. If the only approach was to solve 100% of any problem in one step or nothing at all, we'd still be living in caves.  Anyways "they" will go after those other things too, its all a matter of time, based on some priority that will likely not make sense to everyone.

But what I'm really hearing you say is;"... stop messing with my ICE because man made global warm thing is BS....."  Fine, but that is different than pointing at everything else that pollutes.  Again there is no double standard. 

[tan top]

 
well IMO  there is all this  talk how  we have got to save the environment  fossil fuels are bad  , but nothing is done about air travel  or any of the other polluting devices !  every one backs & uses air travel, & don't think it even enters the head of  the people who say cars with their internal combustion engines are bad , imo think cutting down & destroying rain forests & large numbers of trees around the world is doing more damage .
i think globel warming is just  natural progression of the world , ice caps melting ! yes but that's what ice does eventually !  wasn't there a discovery recently that millions of years ago, Antarctic was tropical before the ice , apparently due to the type of  fossilized tree & plant remains were discovered there only because of the melting ice . 

if your going to do away with internal combustion engines  , you need to stop everything else that pollutes , 
yes I agree that there is scientific reports whats causing global warming , but  any & all manufacturing processes contribute to it in some way even guy having a fire in their back yard  or burning wood / coal  for heating ,   two stroke chain saws & mowers  firework displays  new years eve , where do you stop.
 

Wow, I'm not used to seeing a Tan Top post without any pictures!     

 

if your going to do away with internal combustion engines  , you need to stop everything else that pollutes ,  

You're kinda all over the map.

The idea of not working on auto ICE because you cannot stop all pollution is silly. If the only approach was to solve 100% of any problem in one step or nothing at all, we'd still be living in caves.  Anyways "they" will go after those other things too, its all a matter of time, based on some priority that will likely not make sense to everyone.

But what I'm really hearing you say is;"... stop messing with my ICE because man made global warm thing is BS....."  Fine, but that is different than pointing at everything else that pollutes.  Again there is no double standard.  

yeah I was a bit all over the place with that one
I see what your saying & I agree  
but not once I have heard  about how much pollution from the millions of miles & gallons used by jet aeroplanes, its always  cars trucks are at the front of causing pollution ! & dare I say some people may well buy electric cars & say i'm doing my bit for the planet look we have gone green you should do the same etc , then fly 4 thousand miles a year on vacation or business, thats what I meant by double standard , thinking about it maybe that was not the correct word to use, anyway that's what I meant , not even sure why I threw everything else into the mix but at the time it was relevant to say what I was thinking about the whole electric thing

 

[Mike DC]

            
         
How are muscle cars being threatened, really?



Look at where the US/western military machine is placed & used around the world.  There's a lesson here: the power structure doesn't want to end widespread oil use any time soon.  It's not going to happen.  Big industry cannot make money off oil if it's banned or too expensive for the masses.  

Future modern sporty cars going electric?  
Yes.  What's the hangup?  Electric motors are doing the job more efficiently than IC.  Get over it.  

A few decades ago guys like us were bitching & moaning about EFI.  Airbags.  Catalytic converters.  Low-profile tires.  Vehicle evolution will not remain frozen in place.          

   

[BSB67]

           
         
How are muscle cars being threatened, really?



Look at where the US/western military machine is placed & used around the world.  There's a lesson here: the power structure doesn't want to end widespread oil use any time soon.  It's not going to happen.  Big industry cannot make money off oil if it's banned or too expensive for the masses.  

Future modern sporty cars going electric?  
Yes.  What's the hangup?  Electric motors are doing the job more efficiently than IC.  Get over it.  

A few decades ago guys like us were bitching & moaning about EFI.  Airbags.  Catalytic converters.  Low-profile tires.  Vehicle evolution will not remain frozen in place.          

   

Exactly.  I think I used the late 1970s as a similar example.  Everyone thought that the muscle car was gone forever....never to return.....dead.  Now you can go to the dealer and write a check and get a car with A/C that will nearly stands on its bumper.

Electric is coming.  But it will take a long long time, like forever, for petroleum to go away. 

If you want to blame something for taking your car rights away, It would likely be autonomous vehicles.  But that will be way after we're gone.

Looks like GM and LG will be spending $2 billion on battery manufacturing at Lordstown with UAW workers.  Hope it works out.

[Challenger340]

Pretty much every economist on the planet agree's that the best way to reduce Carbon without destroying the economy.... is to introduce a Tax on carbon to:
1.) de-incentivize carbon use through pricing which also makes cleaner alternatives more competitive
and
2.) utilize the revenues to fund R & D into the cleaner Techs

Again, didn't want to get into whether anyone does..... or does NOT believe in Fossil Fuel induced climate change .....
but another one of the things most economists agree will happen as a result of climate change if true ?
is the mass migration of people from areas that are becoming un-inhabitable to those remaining areas that are still viable putting greater and greater pressure on ever more limited remaining resources to sustain them.
I don't think anyone could build a wall big enough or high enough ?

If anyone's interested.... China begins it's Carbon Tax March 1st 2020, their goal is a Communist "5 year plan" not just to reduce their emissions 20%.... but with the $1 Trillion investment to be Global leaders in clean technologies.
Looks like the Western economies may be playing catch up once again ?

[charger_fan_4ever]

I read the other day that Canada has the fastest climate change with the fastest increasing average temperature in the World....

Probably a lefty fake news site. I had a heat pumped installed last winter on November ~20th it was -23C that day. Lived my whole life in the north east. Last 2-3 winters have been colder and more snow than i can recall in the last 15 years. I was snowmobiling last year in early November and could have this year too. That hasn't been the norm in 25-30 years. Was first time since i was an early teenager.

[Mike DC]

              
Canada is a big place.  The earth's warming trend is gonna show up much more at the poles than closer to the equator.  Hence, rising sea levels in the future.  So far the populated latitudes have seen more inconsistent climate than warmer climate.  


If you really don't believe anything is changing, then talk to somebody living near one of the big river systems.  They are cleaning up from '100-year floods' every 2-3 years these days.      

[Mytur Binsdirti]

If rising sea levels are happening, why are oceanfront property values not plummeting? We all know that the Big O just plunked down about 15 million for a oceanfront mansion on tony Martha's Vineyard. With that purchase, I'd say that rising sea levels are now not a concern of his at all. Why is that?   

[Mike DC]

If rising sea levels are happening, why are oceanfront property values not plummeting? We all know that the Big O just plunked down about 15 million for a oceanfront mansion on tony Martha's Vineyard. With that purchase, I'd say that rising sea levels are now not a concern of his at all. Why is that?   Roll Eyes

Many classic muscle cars are expected to lose a big chunk of their current value in the next 20 years (never mind the next 50-100 years), as the baby boomers leave the market.  Why on earth would anybody buy one of those things today?  
 

[Mytur Binsdirti]

If rising sea levels are happening, why are oceanfront property values not plummeting? We all know that the Big O just plunked down about 15 million for a oceanfront mansion on tony Martha's Vineyard. With that purchase, I'd say that rising sea levels are now not a concern of his at all. Why is that?   Roll Eyes

Many classic muscle cars are expected to lose a big chunk of their current value in the next 20 years (never mind the next 50-100 years), as the baby boomers leave the market.  Why on earth would anybody buy one of those things today?  
 

The correct answer to my question is that the seal levels stopped rising because the Big O made it so 10 years ago. That's why he bought the place on MV; there is no sea level/coastal storm problems any longer. Right?


"This was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal"

[alfaitalia]

I read the other day that Canada has the fastest climate change with the fastest increasing average temperature in the World....

Probably a lefty fake news site. I had a heat pumped installed last winter on November ~20th it was -23C that day. Lived my whole life in the north east. Last 2-3 winters have been colder and more snow than i can recall in the last 15 years. I was snowmobiling last year in early November and could have this year too. That hasn't been the norm in 25-30 years. Was first time since i was an early teenager.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_Canada

These changes take places over decades or longer...you will still get colder and warmer winters but the overall trend is without a doubt up. Now whether you believe it's  a man made temperature increase its up to you (although with the pretty much irrefutable evidence to back it up you would need to have a pretty low iq (hi Donald!) to believe otherwise)....but the world is getting warmer and for whatever reason Canada is in the top few places for climate change.

[odcics2]

If rising sea levels are happening, why are oceanfront property values not plummeting? We all know that the Big O just plunked down about 15 million for a oceanfront mansion on tony Martha's Vineyard. With that purchase, I'd say that rising sea levels are now not a concern of his at all. Why is that?   

He'll build a sea wall. 

[70 sublime]

I read the other day that Canada has the fastest climate change with the fastest increasing average temperature in the World....

Probably a lefty fake news site. I had a heat pumped installed last winter on November ~20th it was -23C that day. Lived my whole life in the north east. Last 2-3 winters have been colder and more snow than i can recall in the last 15 years. I was snowmobiling last year in early November and could have this year too. That hasn't been the norm in 25-30 years. Was first time since i was an early teenager.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_in_Canada

These changes take places over decades or longer...you will still get colder and warmer winters but the overall trend is without a doubt up. Now whether you believe it's  a man made temperature increase its up to you (although with the pretty much irrefutable evidence to back it up you would need to have a pretty low iq (hi Donald!) to believe otherwise)....but the world is getting warmer and for whatever reason Canada is in the top few places for climate change.

I am in Canada and like the warmer weather
Being a farmer we are getting a longer growing season for the crops
Also have had some dry years and some very wet years but that is just all part of farming

So how many times has the earth had cycles of warming up and cooling off over many years since the start of time ?
And how many times has man even been around for ?? 

[BSB67]

             
They are cleaning up from '100-year floods' every 2-3 years these days.      

But understand what data FEMA is using to determine the 100 year flood....data from the last 80 years.  Relative to the age of the earth, they are essentially using no representative historical data.  Locally they just used the "latest technology" to re-establish the 100 and 500 year flood levels in my area. They dropped the flood level 5 ft.  Absolutely silly.

[Mike DC]

                        
My point was just that the weather/situation is changing.  What used to be adequate protection from a problem, is suddenly getting very inadequate.    

[BSB67]

                       
My point was just that the weather/situation is changing.  What used to be adequate protection from a problem, is suddenly getting very inadequate.    

So fundamentally there is the difference.  "Problem".  I don't see it as a problem.  I see it as nature doing what it does, and it's becoming inconvenient for us, so something needs to be fixed.  Man shows up for one nano second in geologic time, puts a stake in the ground as to what normal is, and then thinks something is wrong when it changes and is so arrogant he thinks the the fix is actually in his control.  

50 years ago, my mom said that folks building on beaches, living in river low areas, in hurricane/tornado country and on fault lines were asking for big trouble.  She would say, "don't mess with mother nature, you cannot win".  She didn't even have a high school education but apparently was a genius.  So now that man has done a bunch of stupid stuff, we want to preserve our mistakes by fixing nature.

[Kern Dog]

Now whether you believe it's  a man made temperature increase its up to you (although with the pretty much irrefutable evidence to back it up you would need to have a pretty low iq (hi Donald!) to believe otherwise)

When a citizenry is bombarded with heavily biased reports day after day while never hearing a equal reporting from the opposition, people like you tend to take the bait. The media has an agenda and you are falling for it. Irrefutable??    I hate to sound so rude because I actually like much of what I read from you but you live in a Liberal country and are bordering on socialism. OF COURSE the reports seem irrefutable because the ones feeding you the info are trying to control your lives. It sucks to wake up and realize this but it is the truth.
Hey...If I grew up in a shithole and the only people that I knew or saw were molesters and drug dealers, I'd probably think that the whole world is like that.
It is not.
Taxing people or eliminating gasoline powered cars is not going to help anyone except those that rake in the tax money and the ones that will still have cars. Jesus Christ...Its like I'm talking English to Aborigenes....The ONLY people that will have money, cars and guns will be the people in control. Politicians and BIG business, not people like us.
That is not the way that I want to live. Fuck that !