HELP-PAINTING PROBLEMS!!

[sixpack_sid]

So many problems! Where do I start?! I just painted the color Big Bad Orange on my Charger and everything that could go wrong did!

I thought I'd take advantage of the 3 day weekend and paint my Charger! I already did all the body work. I put down slick sand to get out all imperfections-pitting. It left an orange peel effect. After days of sanding that down smooth,  I put 2K urethane primer on the car last weekend. I gave it a final sanding. I started to wet sand with 500 grit paper and saw the orange peel effect again. So after AN HOUR of wet sanding and getting NO WHERE, I dry sanded the car down with 220 grit. Now there are scratches all over the car-I was hoping the paint would hide it. Then, I wiped the entire car down with Mineral Spirits, (Which I've used MANY times before on other cars and never had a problem.....). Finally, I wiped the entire car down with a clean dry rag. I got my gun and was ready to go! I started to paint the roof and the rear quarter panel-the paint looked like it was separating on the car! SH*T!!What the H#LL!! I stopped painting, got some lacquer thinner and wiped all the paint off, got soapy water and washed the car off. I put clean water on it, and noticed the water was beading off. So I decided to sand the chemical off with 500 grit dry paper. Then, after that, I went around and sanded the whole car, air blew it, then took a clean wet rag and clean dry rag over the whole car again. SO I'M OUTTA RAGS AND DOWN TO ONE CLEAN T-SHIRT!! I prayed to God for help, but he must've been busy, cause things didn't get any better the rest of the day.

I picked up my gun and tried again. I put down my base coat, sprayed one coat on the car and it seemed to be ok. I had the hood hanging from the ceiling too close to the flourescent light hanging from the ceiling, banged my hand on the light and caused a nice run on the front of the hood!! I also had the deck lid hanging, the front valance, and  both fenders were on stands. I only bought one gallon of paint, figured that would be plenty-but it didn't seem like I would have enough. So I  decided to concentrate on painting the body and would do the panels at the end of the run if I had enough paint left. As I was painting the door jams, (I left the doors on the car because it took so long to get them adjusted right, I was afraid to remove them) I couldn't get in the door jams right with my gun. That was a minor problem, compared to what happens next.

I realized that I had enough paint to do the panels, so with 2 & 1/2 cups left in the can, I started spraying the hanging panels. When I got to the last 2 cups in the can, the paint looked totally different!! IT WENT FROM A RED TO AN ORANGE!! By the way, the color is Big Bad Orange. I decided to bite the bullet and paint the panels with the paint and hope it would dry red. 4 hours later, I went back in the garage to look at it, the car doesn't match the panels and I'm drinking a beer!

HELP!!


I don't want to put the clear coat on yet, I want to get another gallon of paint and try to even up the color. It says if waiting more than 24 hrs to clear coat, I need to "scuff up the paint" then put on another base coat before putting on clear coat". What do they mean by scuff it up? What grit sandpaper would I use? Or do I use something else?

There is a dusting of overspray on the car. Do I wipe that off before putting on another coat? Or leave it go?

I noticed a lot of scratches in the paint. Is there any way to sand them out? I DO NOT want to sand anymore! I've been sanding for months and my arms are ready to fall off!! I don't think I have finger prints anymore!

[TylerCharger69]

Well....that grit of sandpaper is a bit too coarse for the "finalizing" stages.   The color difference?   Only thing I can think of is that your hardener/paint ratio had changed.   Did it come from the same mix?  Or was it a different mix?   The orange peel.....well.....it could be due to gun pressure,  did you allow enough flash time between coats...and  what type of reducer you use and how much, air temperature, gun not spraying correctly, blah blah blah.....for sanding orange peel  a 1000 grit wetsanding  should do the trick unless the orange peel is REALLY bad.   I would practice on an old skanky panel,  adjusting gun pressure and see what happens there for starters.  If its hot temperature,  a slow reducer would be in order   and if its cold,  a fast reducer,  And of course a medium  for mild temperatures.   Humidity can have an effect on it as well.    As for the mineral Spirits....thats not what i would use   I would use Prep-All or some other recommended prep cleaner because mineral spirits leaves a film.  Even lacquer thinner would be better than mineral spirits.   I hope others may chime in with their ideas as well

[Silver R/T]

You can see scratches from your bodywork underneath the paint. You didn't finish it off properly. After you sanded your body filler with 40 grit you should've used 80 grit and put down high build urethane primer (2K) at least 3 full-wet coats. That should've been sanded with 320 dry and then followed by another 2-3 coats of 2K primer and wet sanded with 400-600 grit. You need to use guide coat when sanding primer or doing any bodywork. It will show where your high/low spots are and any deep scratches.

I suggest you watch these online videos and learn something. This guy knows what he's doing and he has everything covered, from painting, masking, priming, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/user/swrnc#p/u

[TylerCharger69]

Yes   you need to use some scratch filler primer and wetsand in between coats.........I meant to ask.....what kind of paint are you using?

[sixpack_sid]

Well....that grit of sandpaper is a bit too coarse for the "finalizing" stages.   The color difference?   Only thing I can think of is that your hardener/paint ratio had changed.   Did it come from the same mix?  Or was it a different mix?   The orange peel.....well.....it could be due to gun pressure,  did you allow enough flash time between coats...and  what type of reducer you use and how much, air temperature,  blah blah blah.....for sanding orange peel  a 1000 grit wetsanding  should do the trick unless the orange peel is REALLY bad.   I would practice on an old skanky panel,  adjusting gun pressure and see what happens there for starters.  If its hot temperature,  a slow reducer would be in order   and if its cold,  a fast reducer,  And of course a medium  for mild temperatures.   Humidity can have an effect on it as well.    As for the mineral Spirits....thats not what i would use   I would use Prep-All or some other recommended prep cleaner because mineral spirits leaves a film.  Even lacquer thinner would be better than mineral spirits.   I hope others may chime in with their ideas as well

It was the same mix-I bought 1 gal can of color. I allowed enough time between flash coats. I used a medium reducer. I couldn't get the orange peel off with 500 wet paper-I don't see how 1000 would do anything. I think I made a mistake using Mineral Spirits. Should've gotten some prep solution from the paint shop instead. I will do that when I get more color. I think you are right about the gun causing the orange peel. It was giving me problems throughout with spitting, etc. I was using a scrap panel for practice. The air flow screw on the bottom of the gun kept moving on me.
Anyway, it is what it is....what do I do now? Can I get the scratches out??


Silver R/T--I did the slick sand, primer, 2k primer, etc. I wet sanded with 500 grit. I scratched it up on the final with the 220 to take out the orange peel.
My mistake. Can it be fixed??

[sixpack_sid]

Yes   you need to use some scratch filler primer and wetsand in between coats.........I meant to ask.....what kind of paint are you using?

I'm using a base coat/clear coat. ValuPro paint from Keystone paint supplies.

[Silver R/T]

I would not have used slick sand. You need high build 2K primer. What grit did you use on body filler before you put primer on?
You shouldn't have used 220 before painting it, big mistake.
I would let it dry for a few days, to get all the solvents out. Spray each panel with guide coat and start sanding. You can try wet sanding it with 400 grit. It it sands out smooth and there's no orange peel and sand scratches you can use 2K epoxy primer to seal it before painting it. You have a lot of material on there now, so you should be able to sand it out without needing to apply more hi-fill primer.

[sixpack_sid]

I AM GOING TO THE DOCTOR TOMORROW TO GET THIS CAR SURGICALLY REMOVED FROM MY A$$---BECAUSE THIS CAR IS A PAIN IN MY A$$!!!
Of course this post is written after drinking all afternoon....BURP! 

[hemi-hampton]

I'd get 600 grit wet & sand the entire car smooth using your orange on the car as a guide coat. Then buy a quart of Wax & Grease remover & another gallon of Orange & repaint with no sealer (unless you've gone thru the primer) Since you saved what was left in can to do your parts this is probably why 2 different colors. If you do not stir can good pigments can sink to bottom giving you a different colors, Thats my guess here. Good Luck. LEON.

[sixpack_sid]

I'd get 600 grit wet & sand the entire car smooth using your orange on the car as a guide coat. Then buy a quart of Wax & Grease remover & another gallon of Orange & repaint with no sealer (unless you've gone thru the primer) Since you saved what was left in can to do your parts this is probably why 2 different colors. If you do not stir can good pigments can sink to bottom giving you a different colors, Thats my guess here. Good Luck. LEON.

I did stir the can when I first opened it, but with all the problems I had, I don't remember if I stirred it when I dumped it into the mixing cup. Is a paint stirrer good enough, or should I stir paint with a paint stirrer that goes on a drill?

Thanks for all the replies!! I appreciate it!

[restoman]

Congrats!
You just had everything that COULD go wrong, go wrong.

Nothing wrong with the slick sand, but you should have tackled it by block sanding to get rid of the imperfections left over in the body work. Final sand the Slick sand with 280 and then put on your high build urethane, 2 or 3 full wet coats. Block this as well finishing with around 500 or 600 grit. Then you're pretty much ready for paint.
You made the big mistake using old rags and mineral spirits for the final wipe. Get yourself some proper final wipe solvent (wax and grease remover is for before bodywork, not after it) and some lint free wipes designed for automotive paint usage.
The colour change can likely be attributed to not stirring the paint enough. Some paints settle out quick, constant stirring is the only solution.

Now really all you can do is forget the first batch of paint and get sanding to get rid of those scratches. Like mentioned above, use a guide coat and have at it.

Don't feel too bad about it, every painter has made the same mistakes, just not all at the same time.

[71green go]

Mineral spirits is for oil based products and should never be used to wipe down the car prior to paint...it will leave a film on the car that will reject everything.....you have to use the proper grease and wax remover...I have used methal hydrate successfully though.......it flashes quickly and leaves no residue and is cheap lol

[bill440rt]

Sorry to say, but your first 2 sentences say it all: So many problems! Where do I start!

First, there is NO problem using Slick Sand as a high build sprayable filler. Works well. Most 2K filler primers will laugh at 500-grit as a starting point. START with 220, then work to 400-600 grits for final sanding. Sounds like you worked backwards from 500 to 220. Of COURSE that will leave scratches in the paint! It is too coarse to paint over.

Leon & Restoman have some good suggestions. The scratches in the pictures are obviously painted-over 220 scratches, NOT scratches from bodywork. Leave the orange basecoat on as a guide, sand them down starting with 320 OR 400, and finish sand with either a minimum of 400 grit or finest 600 grit. This is not a rocket science color, we're talking a solid color orange. Doesn't get any easier.

Once sanded, use a final prep solvent (DuPont's Final Prep works very well, hence the name). Use either CLEAN rags or body shop prep wipes available at your local auto body store. Like others have said here, mineral spirits is a HUGE no-no. Lacquer thinner is a BIGGER no-no. You're sure to f**k up lots of shit using lacquer thinner.

Then, USE A TACK RAG lightly before spraying your basecoat. Wipe LIGHTLY with the tack rag! You can use the tack rag in between coats to remove any light overspray or dust, and before your first coat of clear. Make sure your basecoats are fully flash dried in between coats before using a tack rag. Do NOT use a tack rag during your clear coats!!!!!!

One more suggestion following Leon's advice, use your next gallon of orange to do your ENTIRE final coats on the next try. It's OK to use what you have left on jambs, undersides, initial first coat, etc, but use that next gallon for at least your last 2 coats so everything is uniform and matches.
Good luck!

[BigBlockSam]

 

[TylerCharger69]

i think the mineral spirits was the main cause of your problems.....But yes...220  is a bit harsh....If you can see scratches before paint...dont assume the paint will fill it in because it wont.  Id say  800 or higher grit for getting ready to paint   i usually  may overkill it...but i go to 1000 grit...just to make sure...but that's just me.   800 for your final will be fine.   Scratch filler primer will cut down on your sanding immensely

[DC_1]

Good suggestions above, should help get you out of trouble. If those are 220 scratches I'd probably put some 320 on a DA and knock them down with that before moving up to 400 or 600 wet then final sand with 800. Blow the car off thoroughly before washing the car with a prep-wash then tack as mention above........at least that would be my approach. Everyone has there own methods. 

[bill440rt]

IMHO anything finer than 600 for spraying basecoat and/or sealer is too fine. You want to have enough "bite" on the surface for basecoat or sealer to adhere to. On the flipside, anything coarser than 400 is asking for trouble.
800 to 1000 grit is OK in a blend situation or clear only.
Just my preferences.

[Charger-Bodie]

i think the mineral spirits was the main cause of your problems.....But yes...220  is a bit harsh....If you can see scratches before paint...dont assume the paint will fill it in because it wont.  Id say  800 or higher grit for getting ready to paint   i usually  may overkill it...but i go to 1000 grit...just to make sure...but that's just me.   800 for your final will be fine.   Scratch filler primer will cut down on your sanding immensely

You will have very poor mechanical adhesion with anything finer than 600 grit. I finish with 500 for solid colors and 600 for metallic and pearls.

[AKcharger]

Hey look at the bright side: good training and it didn't run!

[mauve66]

good luck dude, you make me feel better about my trials and tribulizations i'm going through
hope it works out for ya cause that will give me more hope, i've got 100 days to get my act together over here

[sixpack_sid]

Ok, I started sanding down the car today and started with a 320 grit paper moving to 400, then 500. It didn't seem to be working, so I tried a 400 & 500 grit wet sandpaper. I went over most of the car and still see some scratches and primer in spots. Will the paint fill in these minor scratches? What should I do? Do I need a sealer? I really don't want to spend anymore money because I have to buy more paint. I am also nervous to put anything on the car that needs to be sanded again. I took some pics, but I don't know if they will show the scratches.

[sixpack_sid]

some pics

[sixpack_sid]

pic

[sixpack_sid]

pic

[Charger-Bodie]

If the scratch is shiny you have not sanded far enough. If the scratch is dull (sanded) then you have sanded far enuf and its just paint down in a primer scratch that you painted over.