Good way to pep up my 440? You decide!

[rikubot]

Hi guys, coming to you for some advice on some internal performance upgrades.

As of right now, my motor is an E440 block built up with lo performance parts (to save money when I was in highschool). Low compression, but it has the correct 906 heads and intake manifold. Only "upgrade" is the edelbrock performer 600 on top. What I was advised to do by a buddy was to pull the motor and put in a more aggressive cam and swap the Pistons to high compression pistons. Also probably a 750carb. I believe it has a .03 bore on the block right now. What do you guys think? I'm not looking to build a race car, I just want to soop up my cruiser a little bit. I'm not worried about the drop in gas mileage. Other notes, I recently upgraded to HP manifolds and 2.5" exhaust. Thanks guys

-Mike

[69wannabe]

Check out mopar muscle article 440 resto to rad. It give's you a good look at how adding performance parts help you get that 440 moving alot better. From my own personal experience the speed pro 2355 pistons work good for a mild performance build and will give you around 9.5 to 1 with the 906 heads. The comp XE268 cam will give you some decent sound and good performance. I have always liked the XE274 but you may need a stall converter with the 274 cam. Lunati also has some good grinds that will give you the same results. Nothing over a 510 lift with the 906 heads because the retainer will bottom out on the valve guide unless you have the guides machined down. A good upgrade would be a high rise dual plane intake or if you can find one the CH4B is an awesome intake to use. I was a HP manifold fan for a few mins until I found a dyno test between headers and manifolds and it was ridiculous how much more power and torque the headers made so headers went on pretty quickly. Top it off with a good 750 holley carb and you will have a pretty stout 440 in there. If you want to really wake it up some aluminum heads will make it move for sure!!!!

[rikubot]

Thanks for all the info. I have a couple questions. How tough was it to get your air cleaner under you good with a high rise intake? Also, what do you think of the Mopar purple shaft cams? I was lookin at getting the .509 since it's still hydraulic lifters. Hmmm...I've heard that the HP manifolds had pretty good flow and torque ratings, but dyno numbers can't be argued with. Saddest part, I just paid $350 for my pair 

[c00nhunterjoe]

If you swap pistons then i would consider a purple cam. I personally love the grinds, others hate them. They serve a good purpose if the motor is built for them.

[BSB67]

I was a HP manifold fan for a few mins until I found a dyno test between headers and manifolds and it was ridiculous how much more power and torque the headers made so headers went on pretty quickly.

To each his own.  And you can't always believe what you read.

Personally, I would not put on headers unless the car is fast enough to need a roll bar.   

[rikubot]

If you swap pistons then i would consider a purple cam. I personally love the grinds, others hate them. They serve a good purpose if the motor is built for them.

Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "love the grinds"?

[rikubot]

I was a HP manifold fan for a few mins until I found a dyno test between headers and manifolds and it was ridiculous how much more power and torque the headers made so headers went on pretty quickly.

To each his own.  And you can't always believe what you read.

Personally, I would not put on headers unless the car is fast enough to need a roll bar.   

Yeah I keep hearing both sides of the story. I think what swayed me to the HP manifolds was the fact it was more close to a stock looking bay. Looking at your signature, I'm quite impressed. I also have 3.23 gears and would be very happy with that Quarter mile. What is going on in your engine bay?

[BSB67]

........What is going on in your engine bay?

http://508charger.yolasite.com/

[brad mcintyre]

you get all weight down that track pretty quick 

[rikubot]

........What is going on in your engine bay?

http://508charger.yolasite.com/

Good lord, you've created a monster!

[68CoronetRT]

........What is going on in your engine bay?

http://508charger.yolasite.com/

Do you recall your 1/8th mile time and speed?

[rikubot]

Update: I order a purple cam, .509 from Summit. $240 and it ships on the 17th 

[BSB67]

........What is going on in your engine bay?

http://508charger.yolasite.com/

Do you recall your 1/8th mile time and speed?

7.608 sec. @ 96.1 mph

[69wannabe]

Update: I order a purple cam, .509 from Summit. $240 and it ships on the 17th  

You are gonna need a good stall converter with that cam, At least a 3200 to 3500 stall converter. You are gonna need some good compression to go with that cam too!!! It will work best with around 10 to 1 compression I would think. I'm not sure what all you are gonna need to make that cam work and run good but a good set of aluminium heads will help it alot. Those 906 stocker's will hold you back quite a bit with the stock valve sizes. These guys on here will guide you in the right direction to get the engine matched up with the cam you ordered. I like the old mopar cams too and they are power builder's but most of the engine's I have used them in were used for the drag strip more than the street. For the street I like the 280/474 and the 284/484 cams for the street but both of those still need a healthy stall converter.

If you are running power brakes you will need to purchase a vacuum can or your power brakes will not work as they used to, Going from a stock smooth cam to a 292/509 is going to open up a can of worm's that you may not be ready to deal with but if all the component's are matched up properly it will work.

Maybe challenger340 and firefighter Ron will chime in and confirm some of what I am thinking here. I maybe all wrong here but if you throw that cam in your engine without the other component's to make that combination work it will be no fun at all.......

BSB is full of knowledge as well and his combination kick's some serious A$$!!! It is a stroked 440 and has the eddy head's which makes a pretty good difference from a stock stroked 440. The eddy heads are a great upgrade on a stock or stroked big block either way!!

[rikubot]

Hmmm.... Very good info. I was advised by a buddy to get this particular cam, and a higher compression piston kit. I was expecting to spend around 2k not including a bigger carb for MOST of the stuff for the build. What would you suggest I approach with this build, and is it going to be fairly streetable when finished? I know very little about building a performance motor as you can tell. I'd like to keep my heads if possible for money reasons and I heard they are more streetable than aluminum heads, but if aluminum heads have to happen, I could definitely try to make that work, it will just take me longer. Also, it's definitely not too late to have them send a different cam I'm sure!

Note: I do have power brakes

[rikubot]

I found this article online and was thinking about using it as a guide. $1000 heads is prob the worst of it...

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/how-you-can-build-a-stout-537hp-street-440/

I'd be more than happy with 100 HP less

[c00nhunterjoe]

Similar but slightly more agressive racer brown cam in my 383. Ran for 16 yrs before i broke it. Drove everywhere. Never disappointed, always giggled as i ran through the gears.

https://youtu.be/9gpncCxfZ44
https://youtu.be/di8VIN6i6ok
https://youtu.be/x86OGyvN-6A

[rikubot]

Do you mean a similar cam to the build in the link or the one I ordered?

[c00nhunterjoe]

Do you mean a similar cam to the build in the link or the one I ordered?

Similar to the 509

[69wannabe]

Some say the 509 is a mild cam, 248 duration @ 50 degree's with a 108 centerline is big in my book.  The worst thing you can do to a car you like to drive and enjoy is to over cam the engine. In my early years of working on engines I have done this a few times but being younger and not caring about driveability I didn't care. Now older I like for my engine to run good and sound good too so there is a happy medium you have to settle with in reality. If you read the article where it come's to the cam selection and spec's it says this isn't the best cam for a street friendly engine and it's a 241 duration @ 50 degree's. I currently am running the comp XE284 cam in my 493 ci which is 240 duration @ 50 degrees and it has good power and sound and it's very driveable and works with my power brakes. The bigger the cubic inches the bigger the cam you can run without it affecting driveability and vacuum, if I were still running a stock stroke 440 I would be running the XE274 by comp since in a stock stroke 440 this cam sounds pretty nice to me and has good street manners.

Not saying it won't run and drive with 509 cam but I know what works and doesn't work for me. If I were building a 440 engine to take to the drag strip every weekend to play with I would have the 509 cam in there but if I were building a car to drive and enjoy I would go with something more modern and streetable.

[c00nhunterjoe]

Some say the 509 is a mild cam, 248 duration @ 50 degree's with a 108 centerline is big in my book.  The worst thing you can do to a car you like to drive and enjoy is to over cam the engine. In my early years of working on engines I have done this a few times but being younger and not caring about driveability I didn't care. Now older I like for my engine to run good and sound good too so there is a happy medium you have to settle with in reality. If you read the article where it come's to the cam selection and spec's it says this isn't the best cam for a street friendly engine and it's a 241 duration @ 50 degree's. I currently am running the comp XE284 cam in my 493 ci which is 240 duration @ 50 degrees and it has good power and sound and it's very driveable and works with my power brakes. The bigger the cubic inches the bigger the cam you can run without it affecting driveability and vacuum, if I were still running a stock stroke 440 I would be running the XE274 by comp since in a stock stroke 440 this cam sounds pretty nice to me and has good street manners.

Not saying it won't run and drive with 509 cam but I know what works and doesn't work for me. If I were building a 440 engine to take to the drag strip every weekend to play with I would have the 509 cam in there but if I were building a car to drive and enjoy I would go with something more modern and streetable.

Depends on compression.... 8:1 and yep, overcammed and wont make power til 4k+..... but small? Not in my book..... my current cam is over .750 lift and my .050 will be greater then most guys advertised and i will be on the street.... beauty is in the eyes of the beholder my friend. Lol

[Brass]

Do you know what cam is in there now?  Is it an auto or manual?  Did you say your budget is $2K?

[garner7555]

Some say the 509 is a mild cam, 248 duration @ 50 degree's with a 108 centerline is big in my book.  The worst thing you can do to a car you like to drive and enjoy is to over cam the engine. In my early years of working on engines I have done this a few times but being younger and not caring about driveability I didn't care. Now older I like for my engine to run good and sound good too so there is a happy medium you have to settle with in reality. If you read the article where it come's to the cam selection and spec's it says this isn't the best cam for a street friendly engine and it's a 241 duration @ 50 degree's. I currently am running the comp XE284 cam in my 493 ci which is 240 duration @ 50 degrees and it has good power and sound and it's very driveable and works with my power brakes. The bigger the cubic inches the bigger the cam you can run without it affecting driveability and vacuum, if I were still running a stock stroke 440 I would be running the XE274 by comp since in a stock stroke 440 this cam sounds pretty nice to me and has good street manners.

Not saying it won't run and drive with 509 cam but I know what works and doesn't work for me. If I were building a 440 engine to take to the drag strip every weekend to play with I would have the 509 cam in there but if I were building a car to drive and enjoy I would go with something more modern and streetable.

Depends on compression.... 8:1 and yep, overcammed and wont make power til 4k+..... but small? Not in my book..... my current cam is over .750 lift and my .050 will be greater then most guys advertised and i will be on the street.... beauty is in the eyes of the beholder my friend. Lol

Wow!   The replacement for your 383 is going to be a BEAST then with that big cam!       Can't wait to hear the details of the build.

[69wannabe]

Some say the 509 is a mild cam, 248 duration @ 50 degree's with a 108 centerline is big in my book.  The worst thing you can do to a car you like to drive and enjoy is to over cam the engine. In my early years of working on engines I have done this a few times but being younger and not caring about driveability I didn't care. Now older I like for my engine to run good and sound good too so there is a happy medium you have to settle with in reality. If you read the article where it come's to the cam selection and spec's it says this isn't the best cam for a street friendly engine and it's a 241 duration @ 50 degree's. I currently am running the comp XE284 cam in my 493 ci which is 240 duration @ 50 degrees and it has good power and sound and it's very driveable and works with my power brakes. The bigger the cubic inches the bigger the cam you can run without it affecting driveability and vacuum, if I were still running a stock stroke 440 I would be running the XE274 by comp since in a stock stroke 440 this cam sounds pretty nice to me and has good street manners.

Not saying it won't run and drive with 509 cam but I know what works and doesn't work for me. If I were building a 440 engine to take to the drag strip every weekend to play with I would have the 509 cam in there but if I were building a car to drive and enjoy I would go with something more modern and streetable.

Depends on compression.... 8:1 and yep, overcammed and wont make power til 4k+..... but small? Not in my book..... my current cam is over .750 lift and my .050 will be greater then most guys advertised and i will be on the street.... beauty is in the eyes of the beholder my friend. Lol

That's alot of strain on your valvetrain but better you than me. For my kind of driving I will never need that kind of cam and neither will most people on here that just want it to have some good sound and cruise around. I hope it works good for you, i'll just keep my tiny comp cam I guess......

[rikubot]

I'm not sure what's in it now as I can't find the paperwork from the rebuild. I'm fairly certain it's been built stock with low compression. It's an auto tranny. I was looking to keep the total rebuild under 2k, it only has maybe 2-3k miles on the last rebuild so I wasn't expecting to have to do any machine work to it.