here is the link http://ccr.tv/
What ever happend to the graveyard diggers? Wasn't that a TV show fixing Mopars?
Is it already on air overthere?
Per
Quote from: Belgium R/T -68 on August 27, 2010, 03:15:19 PM
What ever happend to the graveyard diggers? Wasn't that a TV show fixing Mopars?
Is it already on air overthere?
Per
Graveyard Carz.....they're still trying to get a network to pick them up. Something is apperentley pending though.
I know what kind of & who owns the car they are rebuilding......its a real "special" car :popcrn:
Quote from: 69bronzeT5 on August 27, 2010, 05:35:19 PM
Quote from: Belgium R/T -68 on August 27, 2010, 03:15:19 PM
What ever happend to the graveyard diggers? Wasn't that a TV show fixing Mopars?
Is it already on air overthere?
Per
Graveyard Carz.....they're still trying to get a network to pick them up. Something is apperentley pending though.
Yea, anything good the network don't want it kinda seems. I hope the show gets pick up though as I for one will watch it as it's my kind of show to be honest. :yesnod:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on August 27, 2010, 06:34:43 PM
I know what kind of & who owns the car they are rebuilding......its a real "special" car :popcrn:
Ok we need more info...... :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on August 27, 2010, 06:34:43 PM
I know what kind of & who owns the car they are rebuilding......its a real "special" car :popcrn:
Yeah... I was discussing T5 cars with him at the Nats the other week. :2thumbs:
"Special Car?" That exact brochure car--Special. A T5 Hemi car--OK. That's special. A '69 Charger--Still special.
:scratchchin: interesting. :scratchchin:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on August 27, 2010, 06:34:43 PM
I know what kind of & who owns the car they are rebuilding......its a real "special" car :popcrn:
Tell us more Chris............is it the actual car in the brochure.........a 69 HEMI XP car? Is it the one with a lot of 68 items installed and produced very early? What is the build date and are they going to restore it as it was when photographed in the summer of 68? :scratchchin:
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Steve
I dont want to spoil the surprise......I can tell you its not the brochure car but real close to it in MANY ways
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 01, 2010, 03:54:04 PM
I dont want to spoil the surprise......I can tell you its not the brochure car but real close to it in MANY ways
there is a small article on page 12 of the brand new mopar enthusiast , its shafi keislers car .
Quote from: XS29J8 on September 01, 2010, 07:35:12 AMTell us more Chris............is it the actual car in the brochure.........a 69 HEMI XP car? Is it the one with a lot of 68 items installed and produced very early? What is the build date and are they going to restore it as it was when photographed in the summer of 68?
They should have used this early 69 (has 68 parts):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR6KMor_9HU
:shruggy:
Quote from: JoeyGowdy on September 01, 2010, 07:36:39 PM
Quote from: XS29J8 on September 01, 2010, 07:35:12 AMTell us more Chris............is it the actual car in the brochure.........a 69 HEMI XP car? Is it the one with a lot of 68 items installed and produced very early? What is the build date and are they going to restore it as it was when photographed in the summer of 68?
They should have used this early 69 (has 68 parts):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR6KMor_9HU
:shruggy:
Let me guess.... your definition of "early 69" & "68 parts" means that you are referring to the hacked in 68 rear side markers? :slap:
All I can say is, I would hope that for a '69 Charger of that importance it will be give a proper restoration. That means, EXACTLY the way it left the factory.
I hope that for CCR and Keisler, they take that into account & do the right thing. Leave the customizing and O/D transmissions to models of less importance.
:Twocents:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 01, 2010, 08:50:08 PM
Quote from: JoeyGowdy on September 01, 2010, 07:36:39 PM
Quote from: XS29J8 on September 01, 2010, 07:35:12 AMTell us more Chris............is it the actual car in the brochure.........a 69 HEMI XP car? Is it the one with a lot of 68 items installed and produced very early? What is the build date and are they going to restore it as it was when photographed in the summer of 68?
They should have used this early 69 (has 68 parts):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR6KMor_9HU
:shruggy:
Let me guess.... your definition of "early 69" & "68 parts" means that you are referring to the hacked in 68 rear side markers? :slap:
Ahh.....another plug by Mr. Joey Gowdy himself ::)
Quote from: moparstuart on September 01, 2010, 04:03:47 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 01, 2010, 03:54:04 PM
I dont want to spoil the surprise......I can tell you its not the brochure car but real close to it in MANY ways
there is a small article on page 12 of the brand new mopar enthusiast , its shafi keislers car .
Heres the link.....a nice little shout-out for the Registry as well :cheers:
http://editions.amospublishing.com/MPRE/default.aspx?d=20101001
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 02, 2010, 05:34:07 AM
Quote from: moparstuart on September 01, 2010, 04:03:47 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 01, 2010, 03:54:04 PM
I dont want to spoil the surprise......I can tell you its not the brochure car but real close to it in MANY ways
there is a small article on page 12 of the brand new mopar enthusiast , its shafi keislers car .
Heres the link.....a nice little shout-out for the Registry as well :cheers:
http://editions.amospublishing.com/MPRE/default.aspx?d=20101001
:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
Quote from: bill440rt on September 01, 2010, 09:56:26 PM
All I can say is, I would hope that for a '69 Charger of that importance it will be give a proper restoration. That means, EXACTLY the way it left the factory.
I hope that for CCR and Keisler, they take that into account & do the right thing. Leave the customizing and O/D transmissions to models of less importance.
:Twocents:
:iagree:
Quote from: bill440rt on September 01, 2010, 09:56:26 PM
All I can say is, I would hope that for a '69 Charger of that importance it will be give a proper restoration. That means, EXACTLY the way it left the factory.
I hope that for CCR and Keisler, they take that into account & do the right thing. Leave the customizing and O/D transmissions to models of less importance.
:Twocents:
Prepare to be disappointed. :Twocents:
I don't think it'll be as wacky a build as the Cuda but he did and continues to learn a lot from the Cuda. But the focus of his build is as a technology showcase for his and other sponsors products.
That's too bad. I don't normally say anything in regards to how someone restores their ride but if there was one car that deserved to be brought back to it's fresh from the factory look, it's this one. :rotz:
I guess there weren't any base model '69 Chargers for sale that could use some vendor support AMD metal? :Twocents: :Twocents:
Nice......from the article....
"The changes made during our coverage will almost all be reversible to OEM status with the car being restored with some modern upgrades, since it will likely never be a numbers matching vehicle."
::)
I thought someone had the original brochure car? Chris, you say it's not the actual brochure car but in that article and in their ad in the new Mopar action, they keep saying this is "most likely" THE car. In that article they stated "The mystery of it being the brochure car could not be confirmed beyond all doubt, but honest money, this is it". In the Mopar Action ad, the car is already covered in nice fresh AMD metal......
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on September 02, 2010, 05:27:11 PM
Quote from: bill440rt on September 01, 2010, 09:56:26 PM
All I can say is, I would hope that for a '69 Charger of that importance it will be give a proper restoration. That means, EXACTLY the way it left the factory.
I hope that for CCR and Keisler, they take that into account & do the right thing. Leave the customizing and O/D transmissions to models of less importance.
:Twocents:
Prepare to be disappointed. :Twocents:
I don't think it'll be as wacky a build as the Cuda but he did and continues to learn a lot from the Cuda. But the focus of his build is as a technology showcase for his and other sponsors products.
That was my hunch, too. According to the article, there will be some "upgrades" that can easily be returned to stock. That can be interpreted in many ways.
The article goes on to imply that it's already a non-matching numbers car, so who cares? :shruggy: That is a disgrace, IMHO. This car deserves to be brought back to dead-stock, original condition. No questions asked.
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on September 02, 2010, 06:09:41 PM
That's too bad. I don't normally say anything in regards to how someone restores their ride but if there was one car that deserved to be brought back to it's fresh from the factory look, it's this one. :rotz:
I guess there weren't any base model '69 Chargers for sale that could use some vendor support AMD metal? :Twocents: :Twocents:
My thoughts exactly. Surely there is someone on here that has a strippo 318 Charger that would make a perfect candidate to showcase his & other sponsors' products. Maybe I have one I could lend.... :D
There is simply no reason to customize or modify that particular vehicle.
OK, rant off.
Quote from: 69bronzeT5 on September 02, 2010, 09:34:10 PM
Nice......from the article....
"The changes made during our coverage will almost all be reversible to OEM status with the car being restored with some modern upgrades, since it will likely never be a numbers matching vehicle."
::)
The key word in that statement is "almost". :rotz:
Quote from: bill440rt on September 02, 2010, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on September 02, 2010, 05:27:11 PM
Quote from: bill440rt on September 01, 2010, 09:56:26 PM
All I can say is, I would hope that for a '69 Charger of that importance it will be give a proper restoration. That means, EXACTLY the way it left the factory.
I hope that for CCR and Keisler, they take that into account & do the right thing. Leave the customizing and O/D transmissions to models of less importance.
:Twocents:
Prepare to be disappointed. :Twocents:
I don't think it'll be as wacky a build as the Cuda but he did and continues to learn a lot from the Cuda. But the focus of his build is as a technology showcase for his and other sponsors products.
That was my hunch, too. According to the article, there will be some "upgrades" that can easily be returned to stock. That can be interpreted in many ways.
The article goes on to imply that it's already a non-matching numbers car, so who cares? :shruggy: That is a disgrace, IMHO. This car deserves to be brought back to dead-stock, original condition. No questions asked.
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on September 02, 2010, 06:09:41 PM
That's too bad. I don't normally say anything in regards to how someone restores their ride but if there was one car that deserved to be brought back to it's fresh from the factory look, it's this one. :rotz:
I guess there weren't any base model '69 Chargers for sale that could use some vendor support AMD metal? :Twocents: :Twocents:
My thoughts exactly. Surely there is someone on here that has a strippo 318 Charger that would make a perfect candidate to showcase his & other sponsors' products. Maybe I have one I could lend.... :D
There is simply no reason to customize or modify that particular vehicle.
OK, rant off.
:iagree: I agree with what was said.
It's crazy, you know when it comes time to sell it they'll pimp it's rarity. I would venture to guess the work/customization done will be at the end of the description if mentioned at all.
Quote from: 69bronzeT5 on September 02, 2010, 09:34:10 PM
Nice......from the article....
"The changes made during our coverage will almost all be reversible to OEM status with the car being restored with some modern upgrades, since it will likely never be a numbers matching vehicle."
::)
I thought someone had the original brochure car? Chris, you say it's not the actual brochure car but in that article and in their ad in the new Mopar action, they keep saying this is "most likely" THE car. In that article they stated "The mystery of it being the brochure car could not be confirmed beyond all doubt, but honest money, this is it". In the Mopar Action ad, the car is already covered in nice fresh AMD metal......
VIN #/SPD is too high for it to be a pre production car.....bbbuuuttt.....could the factory have never officially assigned this car a VIN # till after all its promo work was done? :scratchchin:
No one will ever know as there is no fender tag nor Broadcast sheet :rotz:
:popcrn:
I have to agree with the majority of posters here, if this is THAT car, it really needs to be a "back to factory specs" restoration.
I am very lucky in that my charger was a 318 car that got changed, repainted, basically turned into a mutt. Thus I don't feel bad about making it an R/T clone, because there is no chance of it ever being a numbers matching original car again. My car's engine got swapped out more than 20 years ago.
But that car, even if it wouldn't be numbers matching, should be built as close to original as possible. Maybe they will keep the upgrades to a minimum like a modern stereo hidden under the driver's seat or 4 way power disk breaks, small stuff that could be undone.
I hope it doesn't get the full "overhaulin" treatment. :o :'( :eek2: (shudders in epileptic style contractions at the thought of "huge" foose wheels!!)
I know all about this car. As a matter of fact, they approached me about building the car for me. At one point it was going to be built for John Schneider. I don't know why he backed out, but for me I figured that car should be restored back to original with a date coded block and that's not what they wanted to do.
Im all for customizing, and I do like the stuff Keisler and all the other companies are doing to support and enhance our hobby but if i was gonna build a car with trick afterrmarket stuff, Id use a base model not such a rare car like this. There's a ton of 318 chargers laying around, that's what the Xtreme Lee was.
Kenny, love to have your Charger in the registry.....was it originally a '69?
I see the members sentiment sides on saving a piece of History as it was born. Maybe a boycott on the items being upgraded and possibly not reversible as I read it, needs to be thought about.............if the TV show gets enough mail, maybe they'll change directions! I'm not much on the 69 Charger unless it has a General Lee 01, wing, or flat back window, but I am an advocate of not butchering an iconic car such as this!
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Steve
Quote from: KWS on September 03, 2010, 05:10:27 PM
I know all about this car. As a matter of fact, they approached me about building the car for me. At one point it was going to be built for John Schneider. I don't know why he backed out, but for me I figured that car should be restored back to original with a date coded block and that's not what they wanted to do.
Im all for customizing, and I do like the stuff Keisler and all the other companies are doing to support and enhance our hobby but if i was gonna build a car with trick afterrmarket stuff, Id use a base model not such a rare car like this. There's a ton of 318 chargers laying around, that's what the Xtreme Lee was.
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
I have a 318 '69 Charger they can load up with their products :D
Quote from: XS29J8 on September 03, 2010, 05:47:56 PM
I see the members sentiment sides on saving a piece of History as it was born. Maybe a boycott on the items being upgraded and possibly not reversible as I read it, needs to be thought about.............if the TV show gets enough mail, maybe they'll change directions! I'm not much on the 69 Charger unless it has a General Lee 01, wing, or flat back window, but I am an advocate of not butchering an iconic car such as this!
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Steve
I emailed the show and spoke my opinion about how they should restore it to OE status. I got a reply from Dan Woods himself....here's what he said.
Hi Cody,
Thanks for contacting Chop Cut Rebuild. I appreciate the time you've taken to write in.
Keeping the car 100 percent OE, was an option we discussed at length prior to undertaking the restoration. It was pointed out that very little of the original car would remain when it's complete. The original engine, transmission, and differential were all gone and extensive amounts of sheet metal would need replacing. What is of real value on this car is the VIN number. That said, what upgrades we are making are all "bolt-on" and if the next owner wishes, they can easily convert the car to OE specs.
Thanks again for writing and watching.
Best Regards,
Dan Woods
Quote from: 69bronzeT5 on September 03, 2010, 10:55:46 PM
Quote from: XS29J8 on September 03, 2010, 05:47:56 PM
I see the members sentiment sides on saving a piece of History as it was born. Maybe a boycott on the items being upgraded and possibly not reversible as I read it, needs to be thought about.............if the TV show gets enough mail, maybe they'll change directions! I'm not much on the 69 Charger unless it has a General Lee 01, wing, or flat back window, but I am an advocate of not butchering an iconic car such as this!
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Steve
I emailed the show and spoke my opinion about how they should restore it to OE status. I got a reply from Dan Woods himself....here's what he said.
Hi Cody,
Thanks for contacting Chop Cut Rebuild. I appreciate the time you've taken to write in.
Keeping the car 100 percent OE, was an option we discussed at length prior to undertaking the restoration. It was pointed out that very little of the original car would remain when it's complete. The original engine, transmission, and differential were all gone and extensive amounts of sheet metal would need replacing. What is of real value on this car is the VIN number. That said, what upgrades we are making are all "bolt-on" and if the next owner wishes, they can easily convert the car to OE specs.
Thanks again for writing and watching.
Best Regards,
Dan Woods
Then what the heck worth is it building it now if they are not going to do the job correct!? :shruggy: . I though the restore part was to put it back to OE specs not to customize it.. why should another owner if there is one have the option to do that when they are doing a rebuild on the dang thing now.
I agree with Kenny and the others about restoring it back to OE specs even if alot of the car isn't all there anymore.
I can't wait to see the final result of this hack job...
It will have to be air bagged on 22's with an injected 502 crate Chevy, a Kiesler Chevy-based overdrive automatic tranny, a
12 bolt POZZY rearend, front suspension straight out of a wrecked S-10, everything in the Classic industries and Year One
catalogs thrown at it, 42 TV monitors, an X box for every passenger and the guy following behind it in traffic,
and a fish bowl built into the aircleaner...
After all...
This show is called :
CHOP
CUT
REMOVE...
....all traces of the original car's history and dignity.
Im sure it will be tastefully done
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 04, 2010, 06:56:04 AM
Im sure it will be tastefully done
Well... it's not gonna be some abortion according to Shaffi. But it's definitely going to be a running machine... not a trailer queen. So instead of it sitting someplace under covers where you can't see it, much like the Cuda it'll be out in circulation.
Apparently the wheels are going to be customs that mimic the look of the hubcaps somehow... but that's about all I could say.
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on September 04, 2010, 08:09:18 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 04, 2010, 06:56:04 AM
Im sure it will be tastefully done
Well... it's not gonna be some abortion according to Shaffi. But it's definitely going to be a running machine... not a trailer queen. So instead of it sitting someplace under covers where you can't see it, much like the Cuda it'll be out in circulation.
Apparently the wheels are going to be customs that mimic the look of the hubcaps somehow... but that's about all I could say.
Certain vehicles deserve to be in these "Museums" and known through word of mouth and internet pics. Plenty of 318 cars around to do there cutting on in the world. This is wrong on so many counts........ If Steven Juliano had this attitude where would the Hobby be??? I'm really surprised at Chris matter of factly :shruggy: excepting this blasphemy... :RantExplode:
Steve
If it means so much to somebody... then they should go maybe put a 2nd mortgage on their house and go buy it and "save it". :shruggy: I'm sure it'll be at SEMA coming up soon.
Otherwise, let the owner decide how and what gets done to it afterall, they're the ones putting out the cash and putting forth the effort.
There's a lot of future numbers matching trailer queens out there yet for somebody to save.
I'm just happy that Dan Woods / CCR and Shaffi got together and are putting the Charger together, beats watching an episode of going of screwing together another 69 Camaro Z28 kit.
Yeah, I'd be happier if they had decided to put together a certain T5 non numbers match 69 R/T and drop it at my house when it was done but.... o well. :cheers:
Quote from: XS29J8 on September 04, 2010, 08:27:43 AM
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on September 04, 2010, 08:09:18 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 04, 2010, 06:56:04 AM
Im sure it will be tastefully done
Well... it's not gonna be some abortion according to Shaffi. But it's definitely going to be a running machine... not a trailer queen. So instead of it sitting someplace under covers where you can't see it, much like the Cuda it'll be out in circulation.
Apparently the wheels are going to be customs that mimic the look of the hubcaps somehow... but that's about all I could say.
Certain vehicles deserve to be in these "Museums" and known through word of mouth and internet pics. Plenty of 318 cars around to do there cutting on in the world. This is wrong on so many counts........ If Steven Juliano had this attitude where would the Hobby be??? I'm really surprised at Chris matter of factly :shruggy: excepting this blasphemy... :RantExplode:
Steve
Quote from: XS29J8 on September 04, 2010, 08:27:43 AM
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on September 04, 2010, 08:09:18 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 04, 2010, 06:56:04 AM
Im sure it will be tastefully done
Well... it's not gonna be some abortion according to Shaffi. But it's definitely going to be a running machine... not a trailer queen. So instead of it sitting someplace under covers where you can't see it, much like the Cuda it'll be out in circulation.
Apparently the wheels are going to be customs that mimic the look of the hubcaps somehow... but that's about all I could say.
Certain vehicles deserve to be in these "Museums" and known through word of mouth and internet pics. Plenty of 318 cars around to do there cutting on in the world. This is wrong on so many counts........ If Steven Juliano had this attitude where would the Hobby be??? I'm really surprised at Chris matter of factly :shruggy: excepting this blasphemy... :RantExplode:
Steve
its a "matter of factly" statement because its just a VIN # with no other "real" documentation to support it. By this VIN#, the car is a full 3 months into the '69 model year production.
To me, its nothing more than a VIN tag typo...a simple keystroke from an S to a P.
The brochure car was an auto....this car a stick....even had an R/T emblem on the tailpanel.....
Again I say it will be tastefully done.
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 04, 2010, 10:26:58 AM
Quote from: XS29J8 on September 04, 2010, 08:27:43 AM
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on September 04, 2010, 08:09:18 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 04, 2010, 06:56:04 AM
Im sure it will be tastefully done
Well... it's not gonna be some abortion according to Shaffi. But it's definitely going to be a running machine... not a trailer queen. So instead of it sitting someplace under covers where you can't see it, much like the Cuda it'll be out in circulation.
Apparently the wheels are going to be customs that mimic the look of the hubcaps somehow... but that's about all I could say.
Certain vehicles deserve to be in these "Museums" and known through word of mouth and internet pics. Plenty of 318 cars around to do there cutting on in the world. This is wrong on so many counts........ If Steven Juliano had this attitude where would the Hobby be??? I'm really surprised at Chris matter of factly :shruggy: excepting this blasphemy... :RantExplode:
Steve
its a "matter of factly" statement because its just a VIN # with no other "real" documentation to support it. By this VIN#, the car is a full 3 months into the '69 model year production.
To me, its nothing more than a VIN tag typo...a simple keystroke from an S to a P.
The brochure car was an auto....this car a stick....even had an R/T emblem on the tailpanel.....
Again I say it will be tastefully done.
Yet it has the apparent good wishes of Galen and will be promoted as THE car. I also feel that all of the first 69 HEMI Charger J codes were to be made as Charger 500s thus the reason to build this under the Racing divisions radar as an XP code which would probably have given the reason for a much later VIN.........just food for thought....
I don't see the 68 dash in this one either, just don't like the car being promoted as something it isn't or if it is it should be held in higher esteem.
:cheers:
Steve
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on September 04, 2010, 09:50:01 AM
If it means so much to somebody... then they should go maybe put a 2nd mortgage on their house and go buy it and "save it". :shruggy: I'm sure it'll be at SEMA coming up soon.
Otherwise, let the owner decide how and what gets done to it afterall, they're the ones putting out the cash and putting forth the effort.
We can't save them all, but since this is for publicity, it's the wrong type since they are pissing off their customers.
Quote from: 375instroke on September 07, 2010, 06:08:46 PM
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on September 04, 2010, 09:50:01 AM
If it means so much to somebody... then they should go maybe put a 2nd mortgage on their house and go buy it and "save it". :shruggy: I'm sure it'll be at SEMA coming up soon.
Otherwise, let the owner decide how and what gets done to it afterall, they're the ones putting out the cash and putting forth the effort.
We can't save them all, but since this is for publicity, it's the wrong type since they are pissing off their customers.
I am a Keisler customer... I'm not pissed. Are you?
:scratchchin: , any detailed pictures anywhere before they start cutting ! i wonder :scratchchin:
:popcrn:
Quote from: tan top on September 07, 2010, 06:50:14 PM
:scratchchin: , any detailed pictures anywhere before they start cutting ! i wonder :scratchchin:
:popcrn:
Nothing too detailed yet... this was off Keisler news email a few weeks back.
I guess I don't know what to think. Things that bother me are using a 9" when an 8-3/4 or Dana 60 are just as good. Another is a Viper motor or new Hemi when a 426 is way cooler. Being different just to be different doesn't make sense to me, especially when you buy stuff out of a catalog to do it. If it's an original Hemi car, it should at least get a 426 or stroker Hemi.
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on September 07, 2010, 07:45:53 PM
Quote from: tan top on September 07, 2010, 06:50:14 PM
:scratchchin: , any detailed pictures anywhere before they start cutting ! i wonder :scratchchin:
:popcrn:
Nothing too detailed yet... this was off Keisler news email a few weeks back.
:cheers: thanks Brian :2thumbs: , never thought to look on their web site
i say cut the crap out of it.....and i might even make that baby a convertible ....whatever they do...I'm OK with it......some cars are not meant to be resurrected......
I think it's a significant car that deserves a lot more respect than it's getting.
So after reading this, most guys wouldn't like what I'm doing to my car I suppose. All original #'s matching 69 that I'm restomodding. I will keep original motor / tranny, but what's the point to spend so much money on a 318 car....I will be much happier with a 440 and 18' rims..... ;D
I have a pretty hard time drawing much of a parallel between adding a 440 and dub rims to a 318 car and doing anything short of a concour's quality restoration to what may be the only XP hemi car built in 69.
Did I mention they built over 30,000 318 Chargers that year and allegedly ZERO hemi XP ones?
Which by the way doesn't mean I am dissing your car in any way whatsoever. I'm just highlighting the significance of the other car.
Quote from: Ghoste on September 10, 2010, 07:11:18 PM
I have a pretty hard time drawing much of a parallel between adding a 440 and dub rims to a 318 car and doing anything short of a concour's quality restoration to what may be the only XP hemi car built in 69.
Did I mention they built over 30,000 318 Chargers that year and allegedly ZERO hemi XP ones?
Which by the way doesn't mean I am dissing your car in any way whatsoever. I'm just highlighting the significance of the other car.
Exactly!!!!!!!!!
Ah yes, point taken.... :2thumbs:
Pretty much sums up my lack of insight. :rotz:
Quote from: Ghoste on September 10, 2010, 07:11:18 PM
I have a pretty hard time drawing much of a parallel between adding a 440 and dub rims to a 318 car and doing anything short of a concour's quality restoration to what may be the only XP hemi car built in 69.
Did I mention they built over 30,000 318 Chargers that year and allegedly ZERO hemi XP ones?
Which by the way doesn't mean I am dissing your car in any way whatsoever. I'm just highlighting the significance of the other car.
Quote from: 1HotDaytona on September 10, 2010, 07:23:21 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on September 10, 2010, 07:11:18 PM
I have a pretty hard time drawing much of a parallel between adding a 440 and dub rims to a 318 car and doing anything short of a concour's quality restoration to what may be the only XP hemi car built in 69.
Did I mention they built over 30,000 318 Chargers that year and allegedly ZERO hemi XP ones?
Which by the way doesn't mean I am dissing your car in any way whatsoever. I'm just highlighting the significance of the other car.
Exactly!!!!!!!!!
"Great Caesar's Ghost" Ghoste, Now this is a great explanation of how most of us feel. How about it Admiral "Just 6T9 Chrgr", mistake on the VIN or not this should hold a place in history for all of you 69 buffs. Another item of note, while I don't see some of the 68 details, maybe this was used as a demo photo car and rebuilt several different ways or mocked up to show a 4spd, then an automatic etc. etc I remember seeing pics with different trim items it seems............ :scratchchin:
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Super dave I don't think it shows any lack of insight on your part at all. I just don't want you to think that any of us "purists" (and I'm really only a part time purist) would look down our nose because we are upset about what is happening to this car. The 69 XP Hemi really exists in a class all by itself. Literally.
Quote from: Ghoste on September 10, 2010, 07:11:18 PM
I have a pretty hard time drawing much of a parallel between adding a 440 and dub rims to a 318 car and doing anything short of a concour's quality restoration to what may be the only XP hemi car built in 69.
Did I mention they built over 30,000 318 Chargers that year and allegedly ZERO hemi XP ones?
Which by the way doesn't mean I am dissing your car in any way whatsoever. I'm just highlighting the significance of the other car.
:yesnod: true
First off the name "Admiral" is way too advanced for my knowledge on these cars. There are many others that are more well versed than I am. How about "Data Gatherer"?
Still I hold firm on the typo theory.....if the VIN was 000001 then come talk to me ;)
Is there any hard documentation that its the XP Hemi Charger? :shruggy:
Quote from: Back N Black on September 13, 2010, 06:13:28 PM
Is there any hard documentation that its the XP Hemi Charger? :shruggy:
Galen Govier, while we may not all agree with him he is the accepted authority and these tv guys will promote it as such whether it is or isn't......... :Twocents:
:popcrn: :popcrn: :popcrn:
Steve
I seen a 3 sided poster at the Nats for Chop,Cut, Rebuild and the ratty looking Charger in the poster was an R/T and I think it was pale yellow??
Greetings!
First off... Thanks to everyone for expressing their thoughts on our project. It's been my experience that the Mopar community is the most passionate group of car folks on the planet. I expect this build will be one of the most popular we have ever featured in our series. I know our Cuda build two seasons ago created some great fans for our series and has helped CCR survive well beyond other shows that have come and gone of late.
When we were approached by Keisler to feature this build on the show, we had a number of concerns regarding its restoration process and what (if any) modifications would happen to it. I'm happy to say Keisler and CCR's sponsors have all agreed to make every effort to keep the car as original as possible, when possible. The original radio will be back in the dash. The original colors will be used (although it will be a much nicer House of Kolor blend).
As I noted in my email to Cody, there was virtually nothing of the original car left when we began. The team at AMD did a remarkable job replacing nearly every panel on the car. Currie has provided us with a Dana 60 rear end. Ray Barton is supplying a 2nd gen Hemi 426. And Legendary Interiors is delivering original door panels, pearl white vinyl roof, and slightly modified seats. The original gages and dash are being rebuilt with NO LED instruments. It will also maintain near original ride height. Which means... NO air bags! There will be NO "custom" paint. NO flames. And certainly no Confederate flag on the roof! In short, we will not be doing a Foose style "Overhaulin" on this car. Modifications will be mild.
The cars VIN indicated it was originally a Hemi 4 speed car, which in itself is pretty rare (there were only 227 made in 69). However, the car was found with a 440 under the hood and no Dana rear end. We did search for an original Hemi, but we were unable to get one worthy of a rebuild. So, Ray suggested a Gen II with iron heads to keep the original look.
The significant changes to the car are its suspension. We opted to install Bill Reilly's "Alter-K-tion" system with the Wilwood brake system and QA1 coil over shocks. This system has become very popular in the Mopar community because it's a dramatic improvement to the handling. But, it does require a larger wheel to accommodate the large disc brakes. We have also installed Bill's rear link suspension. The front K member we opted for, can be swapped for an original system with little effort. While the rear links did require a small amount of welding to secure the system. But, nothing so extreme that ten minutes with a grinder couldn't reverse what we've done.
The sound system being installed will be very stealth. NO television monitors. NO amps filling the trunk. The Audio Shoppe in Riverside will be making every effort to keep the new SONY system as sleek and hidden as possible. It will operate with a personal music device, such as an Ipod or SONY Ericson cell phone.
Obviously, "all original" would please some people more than others. However, there is no firm documentation that this is the brochure car. and we will NEVER state that it is! There are only indications that it may have been. It could well be as one poster noted here, a typo on the VIN tag or a second promotional car built later in the run. In any event, the fate of this car has taken a significant change in direction.
The new season of Chop Cut Rebuild will premier on Saturday, October 16th. I hope you will all tune in and see it come back to life.
Best regards,
Dan Woods
Quote from: ccr-host on October 04, 2010, 12:57:41 AM
The cars VIN indicated it was originally a Hemi 4 speed car, which in itself is pretty rare (there were only 227 made in 69).
This car must have a one of a kind VIN noting what sort of transmission the car had. :P
Quote from: Brock Lee on October 04, 2010, 02:18:58 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 04, 2010, 12:57:41 AM
The cars VIN indicated it was originally a Hemi 4 speed car, which in itself is pretty rare (there were only 227 made in 69).
This car must have a one of a kind VIN noting what sort of transmission the car had. :P
I can't tell by the pics I posted but I imagine it had an original 4 speed hump and Z bar bracket. They're kinda obvious if somebody changed them over to a 4 speed and I've never really heard of anybody back in the day changing them to be an auto tunnel.
Quote from: ccr-host on October 04, 2010, 12:57:41 AM
Greetings!
First off... Thanks to everyone for expressing their thoughts on our project. It's been my experience that the Mopar community is the most passionate group of car folks on the planet. I expect this build will be one of the most popular we have ever featured in our series. I know our Cuda build two seasons ago created some great fans for our series and has helped CCR survive well beyond other shows that have come and gone of late.
When we were approached by Keisler to feature this build on the show, we had a number of concerns regarding its restoration process and what (if any) modifications would happen to it. I'm happy to say Keisler and CCR's sponsors have all agreed to make every effort to keep the car as original as possible, when possible. The original radio will be back in the dash. The original colors will be used (although it will be a much nicer House of Kolor blend).
As I noted in my email to Cody, there was virtually nothing of the original car left when we began. The team at AMD did a remarkable job replacing nearly every panel on the car. Currie has provided us with a Dana 60 rear end. Ray Barton is supplying a 2nd gen Hemi 426. And Legendary Interiors is delivering original door panels, pearl white vinyl roof, and slightly modified seats. The original gages and dash are being rebuilt with NO LED instruments. It will also maintain near original ride height. Which means... NO air bags! There will be NO "custom" paint. NO flames. And certainly no Confederate flag on the roof! In short, we will not be doing a Foose style "Overhaulin" on this car. Modifications will be mild.
The cars VIN indicated it was originally a Hemi 4 speed car, which in itself is pretty rare (there were only 227 made in 69). However, the car was found with a 440 under the hood and no Dana rear end. We did search for an original Hemi, but we were unable to get one worthy of a rebuild. So, Ray suggested a Gen II with iron heads to keep the original look.
The significant changes to the car are its suspension. We opted to install Bill Reilly's "Alter-K-tion" system with the Wilwood brake system and QA1 coil over shocks. This system has become very popular in the Mopar community because it's a dramatic improvement to the handling. But, it does require a larger wheel to accommodate the large disc brakes. We have also installed Bill's rear link suspension. The front K member we opted for, can be swapped for an original system with little effort. While the rear links did require a small amount of welding to secure the system. But, nothing so extreme that ten minutes with a grinder couldn't reverse what we've done.
The sound system being installed will be very stealth. NO television monitors. NO amps filling the trunk. The Audio Shoppe in Riverside will be making every effort to keep the new SONY system as sleek and hidden as possible. It will operate with a personal music device, such as an Ipod or SONY Ericson cell phone.
Obviously, "all original" would please some people more than others. However, there is no firm documentation that this is the brochure car. and we will NEVER state that it is! There are only indications that it may have been. It could well be as one poster noted here, a typo on the VIN tag or a second promotional car built later in the run. In any event, the fate of this car has taken a significant change in direction.
The new season of Chop Cut Rebuild will premier on Saturday, October 16th. I hope you will all tune in and see it come back to life.
Best regards,
Dan Woods
Thank you for your insight into the project Dan! I'm looking forward to seeing the car.
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on October 04, 2010, 06:49:31 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 04, 2010, 12:57:41 AM
Greetings!
First off... Thanks to everyone for expressing their thoughts on our project. It's been my experience that the Mopar community is the most passionate group of car folks on the planet. I expect this build will be one of the most popular we have ever featured in our series. I know our Cuda build two seasons ago created some great fans for our series and has helped CCR survive well beyond other shows that have come and gone of late.
When we were approached by Keisler to feature this build on the show, we had a number of concerns regarding its restoration process and what (if any) modifications would happen to it. I'm happy to say Keisler and CCR's sponsors have all agreed to make every effort to keep the car as original as possible, when possible. The original radio will be back in the dash. The original colors will be used (although it will be a much nicer House of Kolor blend).
As I noted in my email to Cody, there was virtually nothing of the original car left when we began. The team at AMD did a remarkable job replacing nearly every panel on the car. Currie has provided us with a Dana 60 rear end. Ray Barton is supplying a 2nd gen Hemi 426. And Legendary Interiors is delivering original door panels, pearl white vinyl roof, and slightly modified seats. The original gages and dash are being rebuilt with NO LED instruments. It will also maintain near original ride height. Which means... NO air bags! There will be NO "custom" paint. NO flames. And certainly no Confederate flag on the roof! In short, we will not be doing a Foose style "Overhaulin" on this car. Modifications will be mild.
The cars VIN indicated it was originally a Hemi 4 speed car, which in itself is pretty rare (there were only 227 made in 69). However, the car was found with a 440 under the hood and no Dana rear end. We did search for an original Hemi, but we were unable to get one worthy of a rebuild. So, Ray suggested a Gen II with iron heads to keep the original look.
The significant changes to the car are its suspension. We opted to install Bill Reilly's "Alter-K-tion" system with the Wilwood brake system and QA1 coil over shocks. This system has become very popular in the Mopar community because it's a dramatic improvement to the handling. But, it does require a larger wheel to accommodate the large disc brakes. We have also installed Bill's rear link suspension. The front K member we opted for, can be swapped for an original system with little effort. While the rear links did require a small amount of welding to secure the system. But, nothing so extreme that ten minutes with a grinder couldn't reverse what we've done.
The sound system being installed will be very stealth. NO television monitors. NO amps filling the trunk. The Audio Shoppe in Riverside will be making every effort to keep the new SONY system as sleek and hidden as possible. It will operate with a personal music device, such as an Ipod or SONY Ericson cell phone.
Obviously, "all original" would please some people more than others. However, there is no firm documentation that this is the brochure car. and we will NEVER state that it is! There are only indications that it may have been. It could well be as one poster noted here, a typo on the VIN tag or a second promotional car built later in the run. In any event, the fate of this car has taken a significant change in direction.
The new season of Chop Cut Rebuild will premier on Saturday, October 16th. I hope you will all tune in and see it come back to life.
Best regards,
Dan Woods
Thank you for your insight into the project Dan! I'm looking forward to seeing the car.
:coolgleamA: :popcrn: thanks for the info
was there any mention of the car having rear torque boxes , pinion snubber & rear leafspring shackle re -enforcment plates ?? :popcrn:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 02, 2010, 05:34:07 AM
Quote from: moparstuart on September 01, 2010, 04:03:47 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 01, 2010, 03:54:04 PM
I dont want to spoil the surprise......I can tell you its not the brochure car but real close to it in MANY ways
there is a small article on page 12 of the brand new mopar enthusiast , its shafi keislers car .
Heres the link.....a nice little shout-out for the Registry as well :cheers:
http://editions.amospublishing.com/MPRE/default.aspx?d=20101001
All well and good Mr. Woods, so who authored the Mopar Enthusiast story and used the Picture of the "Brochure" Charger if not to promote your show as "restoring" this iconic piece of history? I like what you are doing, just not with this Charger. I'm just as sure you have not truly investigated it's prior ownership and many parts lost through time do have a way of resurfacing when questions are asked.........even if it isn't the XP brochure charger it still is a special car and should be restored as such. No CCR in my house........Patience should out weigh a TV time schedule with this one.
Regards
Steve
Quote from: XS29J8 on October 04, 2010, 07:29:06 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 02, 2010, 05:34:07 AM
Quote from: moparstuart on September 01, 2010, 04:03:47 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 01, 2010, 03:54:04 PM
I dont want to spoil the surprise......I can tell you its not the brochure car but real close to it in MANY ways
there is a small article on page 12 of the brand new mopar enthusiast , its shafi keislers car .
Heres the link.....a nice little shout-out for the Registry as well :cheers:
http://editions.amospublishing.com/MPRE/default.aspx?d=20101001
All well and good Mr. Woods, so who authored the Mopar Enthusiast story and used the Picture of the "Brochure" Charger if not to promote your show as "restoring" this iconic piece of history? I like what you are doing, just not with this Charger. I'm just as sure you have not truly investigated it's prior ownership and many parts lost through time do have a way of resurfacing when questions are asked.........even if it isn't the XP brochure charger it still is a special car and should be restored as such. No CCR in my house........Patience should out weigh a TV time schedule with this one.
Regards
Steve
You do bring a good point up Steve with your question re-guarding the brochure charger and I like to see them answer that one myself. If it isn't the car or they have no proof that it isn't the car then they shouldn't at all be showing the brochure car at all as that is misleading people to think that it is the car. I think they are just doing it get there ratings up.. . I bet if they dug back into the car's history they could indeed find out for sure. Like before when they said they mention everything on the charger will be un-boltable now they say with just alittle time with a grinder things can be put back to factory.. that isn't un-boltable... that is cutting. Which also brings into another issue what about the paint when grinding things off as there will be a bare metal spot then not to mention paint touch up. I like the part about the K frame being bolt able but yet the rear end stuff part of that stuff would have to be cut out if the person wanted to put it back to factory.
I'm excited to see the charger being built, maybe i can get a few ideas on the upgrades for my charger. :2thumbs:
No matter how you build it, your not going to satisfy everyone.
Quote from: Back N Black on October 04, 2010, 10:11:09 AM
I'm excited to see the charger being built, maybe i can get a few ideas on the upgrades for my charger. :2thumbs:
No matter how you build it, your not going to satisfy everyone.
......and from the sounds of it,there wasnt much left. I think whatever they do to it , atleast it is being saved and not just a title swap. :Twocents:
Quote from: 1HotDaytona on October 04, 2010, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: Back N Black on October 04, 2010, 10:11:09 AM
I'm excited to see the charger being built, maybe i can get a few ideas on the upgrades for my charger. :2thumbs:
No matter how you build it, your not going to satisfy everyone.
......and from the sounds of it,there wasnt much left. I think whatever they do to it , atleast it is being saved and not just a title swap. :Twocents:
:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: i agree atleast it will be saved but it would be nice to see it returned to original as possible , but he owns it and has a right to do as he pleases
Quote from: moparstuart on October 04, 2010, 11:57:31 AM
Quote from: 1HotDaytona on October 04, 2010, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: Back N Black on October 04, 2010, 10:11:09 AM
I'm excited to see the charger being built, maybe i can get a few ideas on the upgrades for my charger. :2thumbs:
No matter how you build it, your not going to satisfy everyone.
......and from the sounds of it,there wasnt much left. I think whatever they do to it , atleast it is being saved and not just a title swap. :Twocents:
:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: i agree atleast it will be saved but it would be nice to see it returned to original as possible , but he owns it and has a right to do as he pleases
Agree as well. Will be nice to see a charger getting some air time.
Quote from: UFO on October 04, 2010, 12:24:07 PM
Quote from: moparstuart on October 04, 2010, 11:57:31 AM
Quote from: 1HotDaytona on October 04, 2010, 10:14:46 AM
Quote from: Back N Black on October 04, 2010, 10:11:09 AM
I'm excited to see the charger being built, maybe i can get a few ideas on the upgrades for my charger. :2thumbs:
No matter how you build it, your not going to satisfy everyone.
......and from the sounds of it,there wasnt much left. I think whatever they do to it , atleast it is being saved and not just a title swap. :Twocents:
:yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod: i agree atleast it will be saved but it would be nice to see it returned to original as possible , but he owns it and has a right to do as he pleases
Agree as well. Will be nice to see a charger getting some air time.
I agree with that as well. :yesnod:
Quote from: XS29J8 on October 04, 2010, 07:29:06 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 02, 2010, 05:34:07 AM
Quote from: moparstuart on September 01, 2010, 04:03:47 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 01, 2010, 03:54:04 PM
I dont want to spoil the surprise......I can tell you its not the brochure car but real close to it in MANY ways
there is a small article on page 12 of the brand new mopar enthusiast , its shafi keislers car .
Heres the link.....a nice little shout-out for the Registry as well :cheers:
http://editions.amospublishing.com/MPRE/default.aspx?d=20101001
All well and good Mr. Woods, so who authored the Mopar Enthusiast story and used the Picture of the "Brochure" Charger if not to promote your show as "restoring" this iconic piece of history? I like what you are doing, just not with this Charger. I'm just as sure you have not truly investigated it's prior ownership and many parts lost through time do have a way of resurfacing when questions are asked.........even if it isn't the XP brochure charger it still is a special car and should be restored as such. No CCR in my house........Patience should out weigh a TV time schedule with this one.
Regards
Steve
Steve I understand your perspective and concerns over this car. But, it should be noted that the car was up for sale for two years by Shafi Keisler and there were no takers. The car is not being restored for a TV show... It's being restored "because" of a TV show. Our participation to document the build was the reason Keisler and other sponsors have opted to invest in the restoration.
Chop Cut Rebuild always attempts to find projects that are a little different than the average restoration. In our first season, we found and restored the George Barris Supervan. We then built the first complete 1967 Dynacorn crate Camaro. In season 4 it was a Bricklin SV1. Last year, it was the 69 Yenko tribute Camaro and 1940 Mercury. The challenge for us is to keep raising the bar in some manner. What some people may consider a ratings grab, others see as continuing to increase viewer interest.
Galen Govier has provided us with a full report on the car. But the lack of a fender tag and build sheet gave him little insight into its specific history. The car did have rear torque boxes , pinion snubber & rear leafspring re -enforcement plates. The determination of it being a 4 speed car was from structural indications NOT the VIN (I was suffering from a little jet-lag when I posted last night – sorry). The Reilly Motorsports rear "Lynx" suspension requires two welds on the rear frame rails. It is a minor modification. No exterior paint would be harmed if it were removed and any evidence of its installation would easily disappear within a matter of minutes, if required.
All that said, this is a privately owned vehicle - not a museum piece. The owner of the car has every right to make changes – regardless of how we feel it should be built. As I noted, I for one am happy to see it survive and I believe the modifications are tasteful and mild at best. I think it will make a majority of people happy to see it back in top running condition with its copper paint, pearl white vinyl roof, and a roaring 426 Hemi under the hood. No flames, no air bags, no over-the-top audio system, and no Confederate flag on the roof. I believe Keisler is using very good judgment given the resources and time available. It's an exciting build and I am very proud to be part of it.
Quote from: tan top on October 04, 2010, 07:07:38 AM
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on October 04, 2010, 06:49:31 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 04, 2010, 12:57:41 AM
Greetings!
First off... Thanks to everyone for expressing their thoughts on our project. It's been my experience that the Mopar community is the most passionate group of car folks on the planet. I expect this build will be one of the most popular we have ever featured in our series. I know our Cuda build two seasons ago created some great fans for our series and has helped CCR survive well beyond other shows that have come and gone of late.
When we were approached by Keisler to feature this build on the show, we had a number of concerns regarding its restoration process and what (if any) modifications would happen to it. I'm happy to say Keisler and CCR’s sponsors have all agreed to make every effort to keep the car as original as possible, when possible. The original radio will be back in the dash. The original colors will be used (although it will be a much nicer House of Kolor blend).
As I noted in my email to Cody, there was virtually nothing of the original car left when we began. The team at AMD did a remarkable job replacing nearly every panel on the car. Currie has provided us with a Dana 60 rear end. Ray Barton is supplying a 2nd gen Hemi 426. And Legendary Interiors is delivering original door panels, pearl white vinyl roof, and slightly modified seats. The original gages and dash are being rebuilt with NO LED instruments. It will also maintain near original ride height. Which means… NO air bags! There will be NO “custom” paint. NO flames. And certainly no Confederate flag on the roof! In short, we will not be doing a Foose style “Overhaulin” on this car. Modifications will be mild.
The cars VIN indicated it was originally a Hemi 4 speed car, which in itself is pretty rare (there were only 227 made in 69). However, the car was found with a 440 under the hood and no Dana rear end. We did search for an original Hemi, but we were unable to get one worthy of a rebuild. So, Ray suggested a Gen II with iron heads to keep the original look.
The significant changes to the car are its suspension. We opted to install Bill Reilly's "Alter-K-tion" system with the Wilwood brake system and QA1 coil over shocks. This system has become very popular in the Mopar community because it’s a dramatic improvement to the handling. But, it does require a larger wheel to accommodate the large disc brakes. We have also installed Bill's rear link suspension. The front K member we opted for, can be swapped for an original system with little effort. While the rear links did require a small amount of welding to secure the system. But, nothing so extreme that ten minutes with a grinder couldn't reverse what we’ve done.
The sound system being installed will be very stealth. NO television monitors. NO amps filling the trunk. The Audio Shoppe in Riverside will be making every effort to keep the new SONY system as sleek and hidden as possible. It will operate with a personal music device, such as an Ipod or SONY Ericson cell phone.
Obviously, “all original” would please some people more than others. However, there is no firm documentation that this is the brochure car. and we will NEVER state that it is! There are only indications that it may have been. It could well be as one poster noted here, a typo on the VIN tag or a second promotional car built later in the run. In any event, the fate of this car has taken a significant change in direction.
The new season of Chop Cut Rebuild will premier on Saturday, October 16th. I hope you will all tune in and see it come back to life.
Best regards,
Dan Woods
Thank you for your insight into the project Dan! I'm looking forward to seeing the car.
:coolgleamA: :popcrn: thanks for the info
was there any mention of the car having rear torque boxes , pinion snubber & rear leafspring shackle re -enforcment plates ?? :popcrn:
Quote from: ccr-host on October 05, 2010, 02:34:25 AM
Quote from: XS29J8 on October 04, 2010, 07:29:06 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 02, 2010, 05:34:07 AM
Quote from: moparstuart on September 01, 2010, 04:03:47 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on September 01, 2010, 03:54:04 PM
I dont want to spoil the surprise......I can tell you its not the brochure car but real close to it in MANY ways
there is a small article on page 12 of the brand new mopar enthusiast , its shafi keislers car .
Heres the link.....a nice little shout-out for the Registry as well :cheers:
http://editions.amospublishing.com/MPRE/default.aspx?d=20101001
All well and good Mr. Woods, so who authored the Mopar Enthusiast story and used the Picture of the "Brochure" Charger if not to promote your show as "restoring" this iconic piece of history? I like what you are doing, just not with this Charger. I'm just as sure you have not truly investigated it's prior ownership and many parts lost through time do have a way of resurfacing when questions are asked.........even if it isn't the XP brochure charger it still is a special car and should be restored as such. No CCR in my house........Patience should out weigh a TV time schedule with this one.
Regards
Steve
Steve I understand your perspective and concerns over this car. But, it should be noted that the car was up for sale for two years by Shafi Keisler and there were no takers. The car is not being restored for a TV show... It's being restored "because" of a TV show. Our participation to document the build was the reason Keisler and other sponsors have opted to invest in the restoration.
Chop Cut Rebuild always attempts to find projects that are a little different than the average restoration. In our first season, we found and restored the George Barris Supervan. We then built the first complete 1967 Dynacorn crate Camaro. In season 4 it was a Bricklin SV1. Last year, it was the 69 Yenko tribute Camaro and 1940 Mercury. The challenge for us is to keep raising the bar in some manner. What some people may consider a ratings grab, others see as continuing to increase viewer interest.
Galen Govier has provided us with a full report on the car. But the lack of a fender tag and build sheet gave him little insight into its specific history. The car did have rear torque boxes , pinion snubber & rear leafspring re -enforcement plates. The determination of it being a 4 speed car was from structural indications NOT the VIN (I was suffering from a little jet-lag when I posted last night – sorry). The Reilly Motorsports rear “Lynx” suspension requires two welds on the rear frame rails. It is a minor modification. No exterior paint would be harmed if it were removed and any evidence of its installation would easily disappear within a matter of minutes, if required.
All that said, this is a privately owned vehicle - not a museum piece. The owner of the car has every right to make changes – regardless of how we feel it should be built. As I noted, I for one am happy to see it survive and I believe the modifications are tasteful and mild at best. I think it will make a majority of people happy to see it back in top running condition with its copper paint, pearl white vinyl roof, and a roaring 426 Hemi under the hood. No flames, no air bags, no over-the-top audio system, and no Confederate flag on the roof. I believe Keisler is using very good judgment given the resources and time available. It’s an exciting build and I am very proud to be part of it.
thanks for the update & info appreciated :cheers: :coolgleamA:
so it had the Hemi torque boxes & renforcement stuff , wow !! could not been a Vin typo then :scratchchin: :popcrn:
would love to have seen the before pictures of the underside & stuff
Hi Folks,
Great discussion here! :cheers: Read this: http://www.keislerauto.com/mopar-articles/mopar-enthusiast-november-2010/page-2.html
Just to add a couple of comments here to clear things up:
1) this IS a real hemi 4-speed Dana car - NOT a TYPO
2) Galen looked at both original doors, and confirmed they had the HEMI emblems
3) there is NO evidence of ANY R/T stripes or R/T quarter panel emblems (stripe delete)
4) the ONLY R/T badge was one on the tail panel that appears to have been added by hand at sometime during it's life. the filming will show this detail.
5) the VIN number is early-mid Oct range - later than the media release date of "not to be released before Sept 30 1968" on the Dodge girl photos from the Chrysler archives.
6) tracking the VIN back requires access to the Tenneessee Secretary of State/DMV archives. This is not available to the public, or through record traces. Extensive record searches could reveal some information.
7) the car sat in McMinn county TN for many years - since the early 80s - as the previous owner didn't know it was a hemi car. He had other nice '68-'69 Chargers in storage since those days and they are in great shape. Nonetheless, XP HEMI had many pin holes and major rot problems througout. As the Mopar Enthusiast article states, it was questionable whether we could save the car itself (not a numbers swap).
8) the drivetrain was gone before the previous owner got the car in the early 80s.
9) the dashpad installed was a '69, not '68, like shown in the interior shot. The interior shows an automatic, and not a stick. Was it the same car as the exterior shot? who knows...
And for some oddities of XP HEMI that are evident on the brochure car:
1. XP HEMI had the '68 Fuel Cap like the brochure car - see the filming for details
2. XP HEMI had the '68 inner headamp bezels like the brochure car but the front clip sheetmetal had been replaced at some time in the past.
3. XP HEMI had its original sheetmetal from the doors back, with no patch panels. It had no traces of an R/T stripe, and great care was taken to sand down the quarters to expose this. - especially behind the side marker lamps. Same for decklid.
4. No quarter panel emblems were ever installed to XP HEMI. The inner quarter panel sound deadener was still in place.
I am hoping that retirees from Chrysler and its marketing company may watch the show, and contact Dan Woods to shed some light on the mystery. Or if it was a replica of the brochure car that some Chrysler executive wanted, that perhaps we'll find out. You'd be amazed at how many people are still around from those days. Last year, I met an engineer from Chrysler that worked on the e-body a/c system design. He told me the story of how the pistol grip handle came about. Just neat stuff out there waiting to be uncovered.
Shafi Keisler
hello & welcome Shafi :cheers: :2thumbs: :cheers: , awesome stuff going on with your charger !!( would NOT be doing that kind of rebuild my self , deffo needs to be returned to stock or as close to as possible in my opinion :Twocents:) , but can appreciate each to their own !! :scratchchin: :yesnod: thanks for the link intresting pictures & wright up :yesnod:
shame you could not trace the owners !!
looking forward to seeing more pictures & reading about the work going on :2thumbs: :popcrn:
Thanks for stopping in Shaffi!
Looking forward to seeing the results. :2thumbs:
I can understand the records not being available to the public,but could your (or the shows) lawyer get them?
Might just get you a name of the owner and lead to another dead end thou.
Always possible that a purchaser liked what he saw in the press photos and had a good connection to push the order thru.
Thanks for the Registry shout-out Shafi :cheers:
Mr. Keisler,
I don't mean to sound like I know it all but when you say "3. XP HEMI had its original sheetmetal from the doors back, with no patch panels. It had no traces of an R/T stripe, and great care was taken to sand down the quarters to expose this. - especially behind the side marker lamps. Same for decklid." are you implying that the tail stripe was painted on? If so, that never was. They were decals to my knowlege so there would be some kind of a lip if someone painted over it. If the car was repainted, the tail stripe could have been removed prior to the repaint.
"And certainly no Confederate flag on the roof!"
Stated not once, but twice. I'm sensing some anit-general lee sentiment .
So, what if the owner said "let's make it into a general lee?" As you stated, it is his car, to do with as he wants, right?
I'm not trying to cause an argument. I just get tired of hearing the same old BS about the general lee (the car) being a racist symobl etc etc etc.
For the record, confederate battle flags were square most percent of the time. A rectangular flag such as on the roof of that car was actually a naval ensign, used on confereate navy ships.
Oh, also stated was that the wheels would have to be a little bigger to accomodate the brakes. When I hear that, to me it means, no sidewall-japanese tuner-foose style wheels/tires. To me, that is almost the worst thing you can do to a muscle car (of any make). Well, that and a tuner tiny wing on the back, both of those just look wrong on a muscle car.
Quote from: UH60L on October 06, 2010, 01:00:27 AM
"And certainly no Confederate flag on the roof!"
Stated not once, but twice. I'm sensing some anit-general lee sentiment .
So, what if the owner said "let's make it into a general lee?" As you stated, it is his car, to do with as he wants, right?
I'm not trying to cause an argument. I just get tired of hearing the same old BS about the general lee (the car) being a racist symobl etc etc etc.
For the record, confederate battle flags were square most percent of the time. A rectangular flag such as on the roof of that car was actually a naval ensign, used on confereate navy ships.
Oh, also stated was that the wheels would have to be a little bigger to accomodate the brakes. When I hear that, to me it means, no sidewall-japanese tuner-foose style wheels/tires. To me, that is almost the worst thing you can do to a muscle car (of any make). Well, that and a tuner tiny wing on the back, both of those just look wrong on a muscle car.
There was no anti-General Lee sentiment intended in those comments. I was only trying to point out that we want the XP Hemi to look as original as possible. I also stated no television monitors twice too and I certainly have no issues with television (LOL). Now if John Schneider approached us to document and assist on building a General Lee, then we would give it serious consideration. But, that isn't the case in this instance.
We will be installing BFG 245/45/18 and 275/40/18 tires on the XP Hemi, to give it a traditional look.
As for the rear tail stripe, we carefully looked to see if there was any sun fade or remnants of the Bumble Bee stripe decal. We found none.
Cheers,
Dan Woods
wow, all a good read.... looking forward to this.....
and I'm thinking there are a lot of peole pissed about my car, wrong color and stripe :lol:
Quote from: ccr-host on October 06, 2010, 08:47:25 AM
Quote from: UH60L on October 06, 2010, 01:00:27 AM
"And certainly no Confederate flag on the roof!"
Stated not once, but twice. I'm sensing some anit-general lee sentiment .
So, what if the owner said "let's make it into a general lee?" As you stated, it is his car, to do with as he wants, right?
I'm not trying to cause an argument. I just get tired of hearing the same old BS about the general lee (the car) being a racist symobl etc etc etc.
For the record, confederate battle flags were square most percent of the time. A rectangular flag such as on the roof of that car was actually a naval ensign, used on confereate navy ships.
Oh, also stated was that the wheels would have to be a little bigger to accomodate the brakes. When I hear that, to me it means, no sidewall-japanese tuner-foose style wheels/tires. To me, that is almost the worst thing you can do to a muscle car (of any make). Well, that and a tuner tiny wing on the back, both of those just look wrong on a muscle car.
There was no anti-General Lee sentiment intended in those comments. I was only trying to point out that we want the XP Hemi to look as original as possible. I also stated no television monitors twice too and I certainly have no issues with television (LOL). Now if John Schneider approached us to document and assist on building a General Lee, then we would give it serious consideration. But, that isn't the case in this instance.
We will be installing BFG 245/45/18 and 275/40/18 tires on the XP Hemi, to give it a traditional look.
As for the rear tail stripe, we carefully looked to see if there was any sun fade or remnants of the Bumble Bee stripe decal. We found none.
Cheers,
Dan Woods
Sorry, I just run into alot of people who don't like the idea of a general lee, including several people on here. Some are unde rthe wrongfull impression that it's racist. Others think the estimated 300 chargers destroyed by the show is the worst thing that's happenned since hitler invaded his neighbors, even though thousands of chargers were scrapped in the '80s.
I was originally going to turn mine into a general lee, because my WWII veteran father and I didn't have much in common, but we both watched and loved that show. $35,000.00 so far in restoration and only 3/4 done, I have decided to hold off on putting vinal decals on the beautiful hemi orange paint.
I'm glad your putting tires/wheels on it that will at least look traditional. An 18 inch, in my opinion, is about the turning point for looking good or looking foose. I hope they look good.
I'm not ready to eat crow yet but this is much better than the first reports I had heard on what was being done to the car. If what you say turns out to be true though I will be the first to say I was wrong.
As for comments about the car being for sale for two years so that someone else could restore it properly I have to say that if that was the case, it was a pretty "low key" sale attempt. I will also make the same statement here that I did on Moparts that if I had the resources to do the car, it's one I would have happily done. I don't have the answers to war, hunger or cancer either but I am very much against all of them.
Anyway, enough of that. Whats done is done and what is happening is happening so finish it up and impress us all. :popcrn:
Quote from: UH60L on October 06, 2010, 11:10:54 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 06, 2010, 08:47:25 AM
Quote from: UH60L on October 06, 2010, 01:00:27 AM
"And certainly no Confederate flag on the roof!"
Stated not once, but twice. I'm sensing some anit-general lee sentiment .
So, what if the owner said "let's make it into a general lee?" As you stated, it is his car, to do with as he wants, right?
I'm not trying to cause an argument. I just get tired of hearing the same old BS about the general lee (the car) being a racist symobl etc etc etc.
For the record, confederate battle flags were square most percent of the time. A rectangular flag such as on the roof of that car was actually a naval ensign, used on confereate navy ships.
Oh, also stated was that the wheels would have to be a little bigger to accomodate the brakes. When I hear that, to me it means, no sidewall-japanese tuner-foose style wheels/tires. To me, that is almost the worst thing you can do to a muscle car (of any make). Well, that and a tuner tiny wing on the back, both of those just look wrong on a muscle car.
There was no anti-General Lee sentiment intended in those comments. I was only trying to point out that we want the XP Hemi to look as original as possible. I also stated no television monitors twice too and I certainly have no issues with television (LOL). Now if John Schneider approached us to document and assist on building a General Lee, then we would give it serious consideration. But, that isn't the case in this instance.
We will be installing BFG 245/45/18 and 275/40/18 tires on the XP Hemi, to give it a traditional look.
As for the rear tail stripe, we carefully looked to see if there was any sun fade or remnants of the Bumble Bee stripe decal. We found none.
Cheers,
Dan Woods
Sorry, I just run into alot of people who don't like the idea of a general lee, including several people on here. Some are unde rthe wrongfull impression that it's racist. Others think the estimated 300 chargers destroyed by the show is the worst thing that's happenned since hitler invaded his neighbors, even though thousands of chargers were scrapped in the '80s.
I was originally going to turn mine into a general lee, because my WWII veteran father and I didn't have much in common, but we both watched and loved that show. $35,000.00 so far in restoration and only 3/4 done, I have decided to hold off on putting vinal decals on the beautiful hemi orange paint.
I'm glad your putting tires/wheels on it that will at least look traditional. An 18 inch, in my opinion, is about the turning point for looking good or looking foose. I hope they look good.
There is no need to drag flying orange clunker cars into a thread about a restoration of an XP Hemi Charger. :brickwall: Stay on topic, please.
As a fellow Keisler consumer, I do commend Shafi's and CCR's efforts of bringing this one back. I'm sure it will be extremely well done, I just personally would have preferred to have seen it done as correct from the factory & left a modded car to a model of lesser importance. I once read a quote from Roger Gibson or Frank Badalson, that it takes just as much effort & resources to do something incorrectly as it does to do it correctly, so why not do it correctly in the first place?
Still, I absolutely look forward to seeing the finished product. It sounds like it will be a beautiful car. :cheers: :2thumbs:
I'm also happy to see the car get saved. This car was so rusty it was about to collapse in a pile of rust dust. LOOK AT THE BEFORE PICTURES! :eek2: I'm just happy that someone with the resources and time is saving it.
Does this show come on tonight?? I have to see this resto.
Quote from: KEISLER on October 05, 2010, 01:08:18 PM
You'd be amazed at how many people are still around from those days. Last year, I met an engineer from Chrysler that worked on the e-body a/c system design.
Shafi Keisler
There are definitely still people around from that era. I met a guy back in 2005 that claimed to be one of the engineers that worked on the Chrysler Turbine. He had a ton of knowledge about the car and explained how they scraped the project just as it was about to be unveiled at some show. Cool guy to talk to.
Was it on this morning? The Speed channel website shows it came on at 8am today
Quote from: Charger440RDN on October 16, 2010, 03:13:42 PM
Was it on this morning? The Speed channel website shows it came on at 8am today
It sure did! The new season began today (Oct. 16th). But, not to worry, the new episodes re-air on Sunday morning and Monday afternoons.
Here's a link to the schedule:
http://www.speedtv.com/schedule/filter/program/806962/
"There is no need to drag flying orange clunker cars into a thread about a restoration of an XP Hemi Charger. Stay on topic, please"
Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but I didn't bring it into the thread.
The people doing the restoration stated "and certainly no confederate flag on the roof".
Not me, I was just elaborating on that comment.
It's funy how "dodge charger" "enthusiasts" trash on.......dodge chargers........
:horse:
this thread is going to get ugly... i promise you. maybe we should just let this thread continue with updates from Mr. Keisler and Mr. Woods in regards to progress on the Charger.
Afterall, there is no "real" proof it is the brochure charger. Just be glad they are saving a charger that would otherwise not been saved.
:Twocents:
Whether it's the brochure car or not (and I'm unconvinced it is), the simple fact remains that they allegedly made no XP Hemi cars in 69. The car just should not exist and the fact that it does places it in an important historical context if only to Charger freaks.
Quote from: ccr-host on October 16, 2010, 08:53:45 PM
Quote from: Charger440RDN on October 16, 2010, 03:13:42 PM
Was it on this morning? The Speed channel website shows it came on at 8am today
It sure did! The new season began today (Oct. 16th). But, not to worry, the new episodes re-air on Sunday morning and Monday afternoons.
Here's a link to the schedule:
http://www.speedtv.com/schedule/filter/program/806962/
Hey kids... wake up. Starts in 10 minutes east coast time! :yesnod:
My DVR is set.
It's on early enough I can catch it before church :2thumbs:
Quote from: ccr-host on October 16, 2010, 08:53:45 PM
Quote from: Charger440RDN on October 16, 2010, 03:13:42 PM
Was it on this morning? The Speed channel website shows it came on at 8am today
It sure did! The new season began today (Oct. 16th). But, not to worry, the new episodes re-air on Sunday morning and Monday afternoons.
Here's a link to the schedule:
http://www.speedtv.com/schedule/filter/program/806962/
Good morning! Well...? Episode number 1 is in the books. Happy to read your thoughts, comments, and questions. This is a very informed group and I welcome insights from here. They will be well considered.
I think its going to look great when its done!! Boy, it sure needs alot though. But if you throw enough money at it, it will look great.I watch CCR alot, its nice that they're doing a Charger this time. :2thumbs:
I watch Chop Cut Rebuild all the time and am thrilled to see a Charger on it. It will be interesting to see how much they can save. I'll be glued to my TV for every episode. Awesome show!
:popcrn:
Quote from: ccr-host on October 16, 2010, 08:53:45 PM
Quote from: Charger440RDN on October 16, 2010, 03:13:42 PM
Was it on this morning? The Speed channel website shows it came on at 8am today
It sure did! The new season began today (Oct. 16th). But, not to worry, the new episodes re-air on Sunday morning and Monday afternoons.
Here's a link to the schedule:
http://www.speedtv.com/schedule/filter/program/806962/
Ok I missed it this morning, is there any way to watch a replay of it online? According to the schedule it looks like it replays on tuesday not monday.
Quote from: Charger440RDN on October 17, 2010, 11:50:43 PM
Ok I missed it this morning, is there any way to watch a replay of it online? According to the schedule it looks like it replays on tuesday not monday.
You just answered your question. ;)
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on October 18, 2010, 12:01:17 AM
Quote from: Charger440RDN on October 17, 2010, 11:50:43 PM
Ok I missed it this morning, is there any way to watch a replay of it online? According to the schedule it looks like it replays on tuesday not monday.
You just answered your question. ;)
I don't see a link to watch it on the website before it comes back on TV, I just don't want to wait until tuesday to see it.
Hey,maybe I missed it,but is there anywhere you can watch show that you missed?I know that they re-air them,but now a days you should be able to watch them on-line. :yesnod:
Sorry folks, the show is not available on the internet. CCR is sold to other broadcasters around the world such as FOX Sports Australia, Discovery UK, and many others. Putting full episodes on the net before those broadcasters have a chance to air them would harm the potential audience size in those markets. To their credit, SPEED gives viewers ample opportunities to see the shows in reruns throughout the week. They are also playing the previous weeks episodes as a lead-in for the next while, so you now have a full hour of CCR on Saturday's. We also make DVD's of the series available one year after SPEED has premiered the shows. You can purchase them on our site. People here may find our 5th season interesting, in it we document the build of the Goodmark Cuda throughout the season. We also add some extra "behind the scenes" features and a follow along commentary on the final episode.
Thanks for watching! Glad you are all enjoying the show. Feel free to post any questions you have here or on the SPEED site.
Best regards,
Dan Woods
Quote from: ccr-host on October 23, 2010, 09:52:46 PM
Sorry folks, the show is not available on the internet. CCR is sold to other broadcasters around the world such as FOX Sports Australia, Discovery UK, and many others. Putting full episodes on the net before those broadcasters have a chance to air them would harm the potential audience size in those markets. To their credit, SPEED gives viewers ample opportunities to see the shows in reruns throughout the week. They are also playing the previous weeks episodes as a lead-in for the next while, so you now have a full hour of CCR on Saturday's. We also make DVD's of the series available one year after SPEED has premiered the shows. You can purchase them on our site. People here may find our 5th season interesting, in it we document the build of the Goodmark Cuda throughout the season. We also add some extra "behind the scenes" features and a follow along commentary on the final episode.
Thanks for watching! Glad you are all enjoying the show. Feel free to post any questions you have here or on the SPEED site.
Best regards,
Dan Woods
Well sense it's not available online, I guess you just lost one viewer here :-\ . Because I don't have cable or dish.. not even an antenna. And I was really looking forward to watching your show to online. I guess they are alot of other good shows out there that are available on the net :icon_smile_wink: :lol:
You should do like Graveyard Cars are doing or trying to do, and that is get the stuff available online as well so everyone can see it and not just the ones that watches tv.
Quote from: MoparManJim on October 23, 2010, 10:01:49 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 23, 2010, 09:52:46 PM
Sorry folks, the show is not available on the internet. CCR is sold to other broadcasters around the world such as FOX Sports Australia, Discovery UK, and many others. Putting full episodes on the net before those broadcasters have a chance to air them would harm the potential audience size in those markets. To their credit, SPEED gives viewers ample opportunities to see the shows in reruns throughout the week. They are also playing the previous weeks episodes as a lead-in for the next while, so you now have a full hour of CCR on Saturday's. We also make DVD's of the series available one year after SPEED has premiered the shows. You can purchase them on our site. People here may find our 5th season interesting, in it we document the build of the Goodmark Cuda throughout the season. We also add some extra "behind the scenes" features and a follow along commentary on the final episode.
Thanks for watching! Glad you are all enjoying the show. Feel free to post any questions you have here or on the SPEED site.
Best regards,
Dan Woods
Well sense it's not available online, I guess you just lost one viewer here :-\ . Because I don't have cable or dish.. not even an antenna. And I was really looking forward to watching your show to online. I guess they are alot of other good shows out there that are available on the net :icon_smile_wink: :lol:
You should do like Graveyard Cars are doing or trying to do, and that is get the stuff available online as well so everyone can see it and not just the ones that watches tv.
Sorry I can't help you out Jim. But, if you like, you can go to our youtube channel and watch the promo's:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ChopCutRebuild
Season 7 will be available on DVD as a Christmas present this time next year. Give your friends lots of hints!
Saw the first episode (missed the first 10 mins though)....caught where you got to pick out the AMD parts for the Charger....that place is truly like a candy store & Dan you seriously have the best job ever! :thumbs:
Set up my DVR to record the show every Saturday now & gonna catch the re-run today @ 1:30 to watch what I missed!
It's on now! All I can say is thank God for AMD :lol:
there was almost nothing left of that car. and a badge delete,stripe delete? oh well, needs everything replaced. :2thumbs: next week will be good :rofl:
After seeing this, I think they can all be saved now.
they had a complete new charger laying on the floor minus id tags and interior
Quote from: nvrbdn on October 24, 2010, 01:21:20 PM
they had a complete new charger laying on the floor minus id tags and interior
Yeah the only thing left for AMD to make is the body shell/ inner skeletal structure. I wonder if they will ever make one like Dynacorn does for GM and ford. You can buy a Camaro or Chevelle body shell new.
What I was wondering was why they didn't use the original doors or trunk lid? They just put new AMD pieces on....
Quote from: ccr-host on October 17, 2010, 10:18:37 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 16, 2010, 08:53:45 PM
Quote from: Charger440RDN on October 16, 2010, 03:13:42 PM
Was it on this morning? The Speed channel website shows it came on at 8am today
It sure did! The new season began today (Oct. 16th). But, not to worry, the new episodes re-air on Sunday morning and Monday afternoons.
Here's a link to the schedule:
http://www.speedtv.com/schedule/filter/program/806962/
Good morning! Well...? Episode number 1 is in the books. Happy to read your thoughts, comments, and questions. This is a very informed group and I welcome insights from here. They will be well considered.
The car sure needs more work than what I imagined. From a person that spent A LOT of money with AMD on my recent build, I thank my lucky stars that they have the metal that is needed for our cars. I sure feel much better putting a high quality replacement piece on my car versus a piece that needs a lot of work. This is just me.
For the people that are crazy about numbers and options and originality, you will not please people period.
As for the authenticity of this car, I'm still up in the open.
Dan, love the show, and continue what your doing. :cheers: Glad to see that your on this message board.
Shafi, why aren't you ever on here when people have issues and need support? - Just wondering........... :scratchchin:
i wondered about the doors also, but with everything else being replaced, i guess you might as well be as perfect straight as you can be with the replacement parts :popcrn:
Dan I spoke with Shafi at Carlise while he was looking over the Charger I was there with and he told me he need a dash core. I let him know i could get him one but haven't heard form him and was wondering if it still needed.
Quote from: dodgert68 on October 24, 2010, 06:35:23 PM
Dan I spoke with Shafi at Carlise while he was looking over the Charger I was there with and he told me he need a dash core. I let him know i could get him one but haven't heard form him and was wondering if it still needed.
We were in need of a dash for a while. Shafi did send us one but, it wasn't the premium dash. We took it to TED's Rod Shop in Riverside and they took the bottom portion and grafted it onto the original, so we were able to keep the top portion with the VIN tag. The original dash was rotted under the glove box. Eric did a great job. You can't tell it was made from two unless you look at the back... Who looks at the back? Errr... well our camera's do!
So what exactly is being used from the original car? I do not have TV, so I have not seen the show.
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on October 24, 2010, 11:23:16 PM
So what exactly is being used from the original car? I do not have TV, so I have not seen the show.
I guess we will just have to wait a full year to see or maybe catch a re-run of it at a friends house. :lol:
I would sure love to catch the episode myself.
I went by youtube last night and caught some of the promos.. good stuff! :2thumbs:
Dan, was this weekends show the first in the series or was there one prior?
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on October 25, 2010, 05:37:13 AM
Dan, was this weekends show the first in the series or was there one prior?
Shopping at AMD was episode 2.
It's pretty cool. Mike Grey took my orders at AMD... and I have a 'large portion' of the parts they make in the basement ;D
As for the decklid and hood... well I have new ones also. Front underside edge of the hood and rear underside edge of the decklid are shot... doesn't pay to fix them vs. the cost of replacement.
Actually my AMD decklid is on Black Betty right now ( looks great! ) Took Sinnamon's rusted mural decklid off and put the old black one on for now. Frankly I suspect I'll end up with new doors by the time things actually come together also :-\
Reminds alot of my 68 R/T after it was all taken apart....only difference is I paid for it myself :icon_smile_big: Definately have to check this out here in Canada on Speed. Just have to set the PVR now to record.
Hey,Dan .I missed one or two show so far I think. What have you kept from the original car. Last I saw it was almost all new amd parts. I was hoping to see the shows I missed on-line .I guess Ill have to keep an eye out for the re runs. :2thumbs:
Quote from: lexxman on October 25, 2010, 03:45:28 PM
Hey,Dan .I missed one or two show so far I think. What have you kept from the original car. Last I saw it was almost all new amd parts. I was hoping to see the shows I missed on-line .I guess Ill have to keep an eye out for the re runs. :2thumbs:
The first two episodes have already aired. But, Speed should be showing episode 2 again on Saturday with a full hour of Chop Cut Rebuild.
Most of the original sheet metal is gone. The firewall, front rails, A pillar, and inner door sills are pretty much all that's left. AMD gave us complete access to their parts, so we took full advantage of the offer!
Hey Dan,
Thanks a lot for showcasing a 2nd gen Charger on your show. I bought one to restore 6 years ago and have been buying parts for it ever since. It's a slow process but I want to do it right. Watching your show gives me encouragement to keep going on my project. As you have probably gauged, Mopar people are fanatics. We love most everything Mopar as it concerns muscle cars. You have to really be dedicated considering the parts situation. Fortunately, in the past 3 or 4 years, that has changed. Case in point, AMD in Flowery Branch, GA. I drove down there and picked up my body panels personally and enjoyed a tour of the same warehouse you were in. I'm sure while you were in Cleveland, GA that you found the North Georgia folks just as friendly as I did. I would imagine you will sooner or later interface with Mike Ross with B/E & A Restoration Parts, Inc out of Ohio who will have a lot of the other parts you will need for the restoration of the Charger. If it wasn't for AMD and BEA, I would have had a hard time finding some of the restoration parts I need. And thanks for coming on our forum to tell us about the show. We'll be watching every episode.
Quote from: ccr-host on October 26, 2010, 03:31:45 AM
The first two episodes have already aired. But, Speed should be showing episode 2 again on Saturday with a full hour of Chop Cut Rebuild.
Most of the original sheet metal is gone. The firewall, front rails, A pillar, and inner door sills are pretty much all that's left. AMD gave us complete access to their parts, so we took full advantage of the offer!
should have just called dynacorn and asked them to make a body for ya, would have saved a lot of time ;-)
I just saw the show...boy, that Charger was rough!
A lot of people say that because AMD is offering these panels now, ANY Charger can now be restored.
I believe this is a case in point!
I can't wait to see the finished product!
And as an aside, I notice another magazine I have to watch for now.
Dan are you guys still shotting or are you done ?
Magnumcharger,
Where did you find that pic? That's our car! I've seen a bunch of archive photos and even Chrysler has given us for use on the show this year. But, that is the first time I've seen THAT picture with those two models.
...Yes, we are still shooting (a few are "shotting themselves too. LOL). It's great fun right now. Just a few days before our SEMA unveiling and both the Vette and Charger build teams are hard at work! 16 - 18 hour days, busting knuckles, yelling at Fedex... pure fun and games!
If anyone here is attending the SEMA show, be sure to come by the AMD booth and get a close up look at our project! It's going to be a fun week in Vegas.
Quote from: ccr-host on October 27, 2010, 02:48:06 AM
Magnumcharger,
Where did you find that pic? That's our car! I've seen a bunch of archive photos and even Chrysler has given us for use on the show this year. But, that is the first time I've seen THAT picture with those two models.
...Yes, we are still shooting (a few are "shotting themselves too. LOL). It's great fun right now. Just a few days before our SEMA unveiling and both the Vette and Charger build teams are hard at work! 16 - 18 hour days, busting knuckles, yelling at Fedex... pure fun and games!
If anyone here is attending the SEMA show, be sure to come by the AMD booth and get a close up look at our project! It's going to be a fun week in Vegas.
I bought a whole box of vintage magazines at a swap meet in Windsor Nova Scotia last August....that magazine was right on top!
Cool, huh?
I just caught the deconstruction episode last night for the first time. Don't know what I'd do without a DVR. I just set it to record ALL so I can watch the ones I missed.
Definitely a rough piece, jeez. I had no idea it was that bad. It almost deconstructed all by itself! :eek2: :smilielol:
Full access to AMD's parts warehouse?? :o I'd be like a kid in a candy store. GREAT advertising for them as well.
I look forward to seeing the progress on the car. :cheers:
Magnumcharger are you in Nova Scotia?
I cant wait for Saturday morning to watch the show.(just like a kid with new cartoons) :lol:
Just in case nobody else has linked these threads - here it is!
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,54133.0.html (XP HEMI Pictures)
Yes, I'm in Nova Scotia.
Quote from: Magnumcharger on October 26, 2010, 07:49:04 PM
I just saw the show...boy, that Charger was rough!
A lot of people say that because AMD is offering these panels now, ANY Charger can now be restored.
I believe this is a case in point!
I can't wait to see the finished product!
Cool magazine. It looks to have a Hemi badge on the door but no R/T emblem on the headlight door :shruggy:
i like in the first episode where dan pulls a board out of the floorboard and says "thats not factory, thats pure after market" :smilielol: :2thumbs:
Quote from: The70RT on October 27, 2010, 05:56:31 PM
Quote from: Magnumcharger on October 26, 2010, 07:49:04 PM
I just saw the show...boy, that Charger was rough!
A lot of people say that because AMD is offering these panels now, ANY Charger can now be restored.
I believe this is a case in point!
I can't wait to see the finished product!
Cool magazine. It looks to have a Hemi badge on the door but no R/T emblem on the headlight door :shruggy:
That's what all the controversy was about, it is an XP Hemi (non RT) and by all accounts shouldn't exist.
Quote from: nvrbdn on October 27, 2010, 08:34:16 PM
i like in the first episode where dan pulls a board out of the floorboard and says "thats not factory, thats pure after market" :smilielol: :2thumbs:
I guess I'll just have to laugh at what you said as it's is kinda funny :lol:, I say it that was for some of us on here we will have to wait a full year it looks like just to get a dvd :icon_smile_dissapprove: . As some of us doesn't have cable tv, dish tv. direct tv or even Antanna tv.. only the internet to watch things by. We can only picture what is going on with how you all talk about what happen in some of the scenes from the episodes. Some of us doesn't have time to catch the reruns on tv either at friends houses :shruggy:
So if some of you would like to please just keep talking about what happen in the episodes, some of us can only picture in our minds how the scene went :lol:.
well jim, if i could figure how to get it from my dvr to a disc, i could send it to ya. just not sure how to do it :shruggy: mabey i should call a kid :smilielol:
Quote from: MoparManJim on October 27, 2010, 08:53:11 PM
I guess I'll just have to laugh at what you said as it's is kinda funny :lol:, I say it that was for some of us on here we will have to wait a full year it looks like just to get a dvd :icon_smile_dissapprove: . As some of us doesn't have cable tv, dish tv. direct tv or even Antanna tv.. only the internet to watch things by. We can only picture what is going on with how you all talk about what happen in some of the scenes from the episodes. Some of us doesn't have time to catch the reruns on tv either at friends houses :shruggy:
So if some of you would like to please just keep talking about what happen in the episodes, some of us can only picture in our minds how the scene went :lol:.
Or watch it at a neighbor or friends house :shruggy:
So far based on what I have read, it sounds like the numbers were saved & are going on an all new body.
For those that have actually seen the episodes;
Is that a fair assessment?
Or not?
If yes / no any additional details?
they saved very little, but the main structure is there saying that the vin tag cannot be moved. all the body pannels are new and doors etc. removing trunk rail #s to reattach to a new one
also frame,rear panel roof skin replaced
they are saying it is the fabled xp hemi xp29j galen says the only one of its kind.
Quote from: Charger440RDN on October 27, 2010, 09:19:06 PM
Quote from: MoparManJim on October 27, 2010, 08:53:11 PM
I guess I'll just have to laugh at what you said as it's is kinda funny :lol:, I say it that was for some of us on here we will have to wait a full year it looks like just to get a dvd :icon_smile_dissapprove: . As some of us doesn't have cable tv, dish tv. direct tv or even Antanna tv.. only the internet to watch things by. We can only picture what is going on with how you all talk about what happen in some of the scenes from the episodes. Some of us doesn't have time to catch the reruns on tv either at friends houses :shruggy:
So if some of you would like to please just keep talking about what happen in the episodes, some of us can only picture in our minds how the scene went :lol:.
Or watch it at a neighbor or friends house :shruggy:
Yea right around here it's very hard to find a neighbor home anymore or let alone watching the channel if it doesn't have something they like to watch on it. If it doesn't have to deal with trucks they don't watch it. :shruggy:
Quote from: nvrbdn on October 27, 2010, 09:18:40 PM
well jim, if i could figure how to get it from my dvr to a disc, i could send it to ya. just not sure how to do it :shruggy: mabey i should call a kid :smilielol:
Now sense you mention it, how would you go about doing that? I mean from one to the other.. :lol:
id have to find a disc recorder and hook the dvr up to it sending the signal through it. i know i have vcr, just have to find someone with a dvd recorder. :shruggy:
QuoteYea right around here it's very hard to find a neighbor home anymore or let alone watching the channel if it doesn't have something they like to watch on it. If it doesn't have to deal with trucks they don't watch it. :shruggy:
Jim, if you have a sports bar near you, catch some of the midday re-runs during the week. Most sports bars will put on SPEED if you request it.
Quote from: ccr-host on October 28, 2010, 01:19:53 AM
QuoteYea right around here it's very hard to find a neighbor home anymore or let alone watching the channel if it doesn't have something they like to watch on it. If it doesn't have to deal with trucks they don't watch it. :shruggy:
Jim, if you have a sports bar near you, catch some of the midday re-runs during the week. Most sports bars will put on SPEED if you request it.
Sorry, we have none around here, and the only bar we have is a bar room. I don't go to the bars at all. I guess I'll just have to wait and catch another car rebuilding show on line here in afew days. Maybe you should talk to your telacasters about maybe putting the show online also.. it's just an idea.
Quote from: Chatt69chgr on October 26, 2010, 06:45:57 AM
Hey Dan,
Thanks a lot for showcasing a 2nd gen Charger on your show. I bought one to restore 6 years ago and have been buying parts for it ever since. It's a slow process but I want to do it right. Watching your show gives me encouragement to keep going on my project. As you have probably gauged, Mopar people are fanatics. We love most everything Mopar as it concerns muscle cars. You have to really be dedicated considering the parts situation. Fortunately, in the past 3 or 4 years, that has changed. Case in point, AMD in Flowery Branch, GA. I drove down there and picked up my body panels personally and enjoyed a tour of the same warehouse you were in. I'm sure while you were in Cleveland, GA that you found the North Georgia folks just as friendly as I did. I would imagine you will sooner or later interface with Mike Ross with B/E & A Restoration Parts, Inc out of Ohio who will have a lot of the other parts you will need for the restoration of the Charger. If it wasn't for AMD and BEA, I would have had a hard time finding some of the restoration parts I need. And thanks for coming on our forum to tell us about the show. We'll be watching every episode.
I'm glad we're able to encourage you to get back to your project. I know that Mopar people are very passionate about their cars, but that is a good thing ...I think. The people in Beauford, GA treated us great. The local paper sent a reporter and we made the front page! We were fortunate to get Ted Stephens onboard as a primary sponsor and he has been wonderful. Sending new, used, OE, and reproduction parts for the build. Ted even flew out to California and with a couple of his local Mopar friends, chipped in and brought the project to completion with the guys at Hot Rods. Ted even arranged for us to get a parts car from a good friend. His help has been amazing! He knows everyone in the game. Julius even came in and rebuilt our grill in just 3 days. So, yeah Mopar people are passionate in a VERY good way!! Our thanks to all of them.
Quote from: MoparManJim on October 28, 2010, 01:31:14 AM
Sorry, we have none around here, and the only bar we have is a bar room. I don't go to the bars at all. I guess I'll just have to wait and catch another car rebuilding show on line here in afew days. Maybe you should talk to your telacasters about maybe putting the show online also.. it's just an idea.
I just checked out GYC. It looks very cool. I like that they are salvaging wrecks! But, note they don't have a national broadcaster. It seems the internet and a single broadcaster in Eugene, Oregon are their primary broadcasting outlets. That is a completely different business model than we have. If we post our shows on the internet, it devalues what a broadcaster and advertisers will pay for them. Less money to produce means a different look to a show. It usually results in no or very little travel, less episodes, single camera shooting, stock library music, no closed captioning, and a single studio shooting environment. Those factors would make Chop Cut look very different than it does now.
I do hope they get a broadcast deal. The more restoration shows on the air, the better for us all. We've lost a number of shows in the past couple of years like Overhaulin', Wrecks to Riches, Dreamcar Garage, and some others. Less shows means less interest in the hobby. It looks like Spike is interested in the show. But, don't be surprised if Spike pulls the shows off the net when they sign on. Shows like Monster Garage and Overhaulin', still are not on the net because the internet doesn't provide near the same revenue as a television broadcast - even a cable broadcast.
Quote from: ccr-host on October 28, 2010, 02:00:31 AM
Quote from: MoparManJim on October 28, 2010, 01:31:14 AM
Sorry, we have none around here, and the only bar we have is a bar room. I don't go to the bars at all. I guess I'll just have to wait and catch another car rebuilding show on line here in afew days. Maybe you should talk to your telacasters about maybe putting the show online also.. it's just an idea.
I just checked out GYC. It looks very cool. I like that they are salvaging wrecks! But, note they don't have a national broadcaster. It seems the internet and a single broadcaster in Eugene, Oregon are their primary broadcasting outlets. That is a completely different business model than we have. If we post our shows on the internet, it devalues what a broadcaster and advertisers will pay for them. Less money to produce means a different look to a show. It usually results in no or very little travel, less episodes, single camera shooting, stock library music, no closed captioning, and a single studio shooting environment. Those factors would make Chop Cut look very different than it does now.
First off I'm not trying at all to hi-jack your thread here, but I wanted to say this, GYC as I know as of late do have a broadcaster, and they are working on getting the channel to broad cast I guess to the land down under. And also what is the different between on the air and online.. no mater how you look at it people are still seeing it one way or the other. If you air it on tv people is going to see it, if you post it on the net people is going to see it. I thought you was wanting people to see your show.
It sounds like it all depends on the $$$ to the way you just said it above. To the way you just said those two last parts.. I was a becoming a fan of your show and was really starting to enjoy the promos from you link you posted before.. but after those words of yours above,I think you might just as lost me as a fan.
QuoteI do hope they get a broadcast deal. The more restoration shows on the air, the better for us all. We've lost a number of shows in the past couple of years like Overhaulin', Wrecks to Riches, Dreamcar Garage, and some others. Less shows means less interest in the hobby. It looks like Spike is interested in the show. But, don't be surprised if Spike pulls the shows off the net when they sign on. Shows like Monster Garage and Overhaulin', still are not on the net because the internet doesn't provide near the same revenue as a television broadcast - even a cable broadcast.
That's funny you mention the bottom part as when I watch there shows online they are getting quite afew good compliamints and alot of people are liking them. You see it pose to be about the views not about the $$$. If people like what they see they will return as it doesn't mater how much money a channel is paid.. if the program is good. A request demand to networks to at least give it a chance. That is what Mr. Mark of Graveyard Carz did. He wants the viewers to see his show, that is why he is working hard at getting it on the air waves. What you said above about cameras and what not, how do you think his program got started, by little cameras. He's working his way up like you did. Yet what you said up there you just cut his program down by the sounds of it with your own words.. because he is taking his local and have it on the net in small clips likes so people can see it and is working at getting his on the air where as you already have your show on the air waves. That comment you made above about devalue and small cameras really did offend me alot. Because you and him are in the same thing, cutting cars up and putting them back togother, the only different's is you do yours one way and he does his another.
Jim, no disrespect meant but you are way off here. I mean to suggest the producers of CCR are greedy and should not expect to profit from their investment is ridiculous in my opinion. While I'm sure a lot of them maybe auto enthusiast, at the end of the day they are a business that happens to make a car program. They are entitled to offer their program through the channels they feel offer the best value to those putting up the money to produce or support the production of the show. I've not seen this GYC show you talk about but to compare them to CCR is unfair. Maybe their low budget production is done and put on the Internet out of passion but at the end of the day everyone does what they do for money. You said yourself they are working hard to get on the airwaves. Are they doing this hard work for love or in the hopes of getting a deal with someone like SpikeTV or Speed!? Im sure if one of those offered a big $$ contract to GYC to produce the show but required them to no longer post the show online it would be done tomorrow. Again, not trying to be a a$$, just trying to get you to look at this from a big picture perspective.
Jim,
Seriously man, quit while you're behind. You are starting to sound like a complete tool. Your biggest gripe is that you don't have TV and you want it for free online. If you had a TV, I doubt you would be crying the way you are. :Twocents:
CCR (Dan Woods), in no way does Jim represent the majority of how this site views your show. I know it takes a ton to get a show on TV. Keep up the good work. :2thumbs:
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on October 27, 2010, 09:28:45 PM
So far based on what I have read, it sounds like the numbers were saved & are going on an all new body.
For those that have actually seen the episodes;
Is that a fair assessment?
Or not?
If yes / no any additional details?
It is sad because i feel alot more of the original parts could have been saved , but they just threw parts away because they had free rain on new parts . Just a little work on the doors and deck lid and alot more of the inner structure would have saved much more of the original car . Just cutting the numbers out of the core support and trunk lip and grafting them in to the new sheet metal . This is pure and simple a rebody not saving the old car . :Twocents: :Twocents:
Quote from: moparstuart on October 28, 2010, 09:51:54 AM
Just cutting the numbers out of the core support and trunk lip and grafting them in to the new sheet metal . This is pure and simple a rebody not saving the old car . :Twocents: :Twocents:
I felt the same way. Cutting number supports and grafting them onto another car is IMO a rebody. It was cool seeing a complete car being created, but just because the VIN tag stayed on the dash core, does not make it original. :Twocents:
Quote from: Chris G. on October 28, 2010, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: moparstuart on October 28, 2010, 09:51:54 AM
Just cutting the numbers out of the core support and trunk lip and grafting them in to the new sheet metal . This is pure and simple a rebody not saving the old car . :Twocents: :Twocents:
I felt the same way. Cutting number supports and grafting them onto another car is IMO a rebody. It was cool seeing a complete car being created, but just because the VIN tag stayed on the dash core, does not make it original. :Twocents:
If you had an old junk charger and are going to make a modern pro- touring car out of it , this would have been a great build but this car was historic . Now you might as well put everything modern in it , its just a re-body .
Didn't they they have to use the existing inner roof structure and the original cowl because the inner structure is not reproduced by AMD or anyone else :shruggy: So the inner skeletal structure is still original.
Quote from: Charger440RDN on October 28, 2010, 10:43:03 AM
Didn't they they have to use the existing inner roof structure and the original cowl because the inner structure is not reproduced by AMD or anyone else :shruggy: So the inner skeletal structure is still original.
Yes but they used as little as possible , its lucky if even 15 % of the original car is there .
Which episode is the first one (of season 7)?
Twins? or The Southern Shell? :shruggy:
http://www.speedtv.com/schedule/filter/date/2010-10-30
Quote from: Chris G. on October 28, 2010, 10:01:30 AM
Quote from: moparstuart on October 28, 2010, 09:51:54 AM
Just cutting the numbers out of the core support and trunk lip and grafting them in to the new sheet metal . This is pure and simple a rebody not saving the old car . :Twocents: :Twocents:
I felt the same way. Cutting number supports and grafting them onto another car is IMO a rebody. It was cool seeing a complete car being created, but just because the VIN tag stayed on the dash core, does not make it original. :Twocents:
I agree!
The line between "all original" and "rebuilt" is often blurry. As another poster here stated, should we have saved the rust on the floor and put it into a bag? That may be an extreme example but, it does highlight the question of, where is the line in the sand? Could we have saved the one original door? Yes. We could have hammered and dollied it, patched the rust and reused it. But, in our situation saving time was far more important. We also have a sponsor whose products we've promised to showcase. Saving that door does nothing to show the quality of AMD's products. The portions we saved are what is legally required to continue the registration. The "legal" line in the sand was our primary concern. A complete" re-body" would require a new VIN and registering it as a specialty car, which also means meeting 2010 emissions standards. I know we are in the fortunate situation of having unlimited access to AMD parts and that can seem unfair to those who must work within a budget. But, if one scenario creates more work and another showcases a sponsor, what is the logical route?
im all for this car getting done and enjoying what iv'e seen so far. love it all. the main argument most will have here is if this is the most rare charger on the planet 1 of 1. then the masses will say save all you can to be as true as possible.
Quote from: nvrbdn on October 28, 2010, 11:37:14 AM
im all for this car getting done and enjoying what iv'e seen so far. love it all. the main argument most will have here is if this is the most rare charger on the planet 1 of 1. then the masses will say save all you can to be as true as possible.
yes that is what i'm saying if you really wanted to feature a car for AMD there are a ton of rust bucket ( not so rare cars out there to cut away at and even feature more of the aftermarket goodies . This car was just so special it needed to have more of it's original parts restored and saved . Time and a sponser should not have been a factor , on this car. Just my :Twocents: again its shafi's car and he has a right to do with it as he sees fit , but I just feel this is a shame to do it to this car .
Quote from: moparstuart on October 28, 2010, 11:55:27 AM
Quote from: nvrbdn on October 28, 2010, 11:37:14 AM
im all for this car getting done and enjoying what iv'e seen so far. love it all. the main argument most will have here is if this is the most rare charger on the planet 1 of 1. then the masses will say save all you can to be as true as possible.
yes that is what i'm saying if you really wanted to feature a car for AMD there are a ton of rust bucket ( not so rare cars out there to cut away at and even feature more of the aftermarket goodies . This car was just so special it needed to have more of it's original parts restored and saved . Time and a sponser should not have been a factor , on this car. Just my :Twocents: again its shafi's car and he has a right to do with it as he sees fit , but I just feel this is a shame to do it to this car .
Stuart, I understand the angst. I really do. But, this car was a rust bucket. It wasn't stored properly. It's roof, floors, trunk, doors, fenders, and a great deal of the substructure were gone. The Hemi was long gone and there wasn't even an original seat in it. It had also been in a collision at some point, which is why there was no fender tag. There was only one original door and it was borderline to save it. Nothing but major surgery was going to keep this patient alive. To do what you are suggesting would not have been possible on ANY television series. It's like a wounded soldier in the field. The care he gets at a MASH unit will never be what could be performed at Johns Hopkins Medical. To produce any television series, time and sponsor needs are key factors in the descision making. If what you are suggesting is, this car should not have been restored on TV, then that is a much different perspective and I would dissagree with it. This is a high-profile car. It's restoration should have high profile attention brought to it. But, keep in mind, Galen did not give us a definitive answer to: "Is this really the brochure car?". That is still a question not yet answered beyond a reasonable doubt. So, in fact we may be just restoring any old rust bucket. But... the possibilities make for some great discussions!
I will keep watching , and have watched your show since day 1 with the super van project . Yes i am maybe saying this car should not have been restored on TV . Or maybe on grave yard cars where they take the time to save as much of the original car as possible .
Quote from: Charger440RDN on October 28, 2010, 10:43:03 AM
Didn't they they have to use the existing inner roof structure and the original cowl because the inner structure is not reproduced by AMD or anyone else :shruggy: So the inner skeletal structure is still original.
As far as I know from sources, there are no plans to do the inner roof structure for a Charger... that is the sticking point to a "new" body. Along with the cowl.
Now I've seen a repro 57 Chevy conv. body that came into Speedo's... it was all new except for the cowl with the original vin. see here: http://www.1957chevybody.com/body_options.html I don't believe the dynacorn bodies are made like that, but those being Mustangs and Camaros means I really don't care if anybody rebodies these things or not, swapped VIN or not.
What number charger is chop cut rebuild working on .This one is supposed to be the 1st one
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,22402.50.html
Did Shafi ever have the car up for sale? I see in reply #29 of this thread that KWS said he was approached about having the car built for him. Is there more to the back story that you can share Dan (CCR)? I understand you have to put the show together and make it interesting for viewers who are beyond the Mopar community, but for us here, we like to know the chain of events that got you to do this car in this way. You are a member here now so you are obligated to share all the details you have for fear of being banned to the Ricer Forums! :2guns:..........Seriously though, any additional info you could share would be greatly appreciated.
by the first show about the charger a friend called and said he had a hemi charger that was an xp car.wanted to sell it. so he went there to authenticate it and seemed to believe that is what it was. so he got ccr to come check the car as a possible rebuild on the show. they contacted galen and he said if this is a xp hemi it is the only one he is aware has ever existed. thats the way they set it up on the show.
Quote from: ccr-host on October 28, 2010, 11:27:22 AM
I agree!
The line between "all original" and "rebuilt" is often blurry. As another poster here stated, should we have saved the rust on the floor and put it into a bag? That may be an extreme example but, it does highlight the question of, where is the line in the sand? Could we have saved the one original door? Yes. We could have hammered and dollied it, patched the rust and reused it. But, in our situation saving time was far more important. We also have a sponsor whose products we've promised to showcase. Saving that door does nothing to show the quality of AMD's products. The portions we saved are what is legally required to continue the registration. The "legal" line in the sand was our primary concern. A complete" re-body" would require a new VIN and registering it as a specialty car, which also means meeting 2010 emissions standards. I know we are in the fortunate situation of having unlimited access to AMD parts and that can seem unfair to those who must work within a budget. But, if one scenario creates more work and another showcases a sponsor, what is the logical route?
I agree with you Dan,
The car was pretty far gone. They could have pushed to save a door, but if the car is that far gone and you need to replace the majority of sheetmetal anyway, then why not replace everything boarderline at that point? You could say "hey this this and this is AMD, but we managed to spend 100 hours in salvaging this door" who cares at that point? It had zero chance of ever being restored with the majority of factor sheetmetal, after that point its fair game. Im glad they are saving it at least. If it had been an Arizona car with a couple holes that would be a different story. Restore it, and let someone enjoy it again.
If it was my car and I wanted to get it restored to enjoy for many more years (after seeing the condition it was in), I would go the same route to restore it. I would want as much sheet metal as possible replaced and restore it back to as close to the original look as possible. But keeping it original is no longer an option. 45% of that car has become one with the Earth. You would not need a restoration shop, rather a time machine and a preacher to restore it without AMD
I think the perspective that must be kept about how this car is restored is, why save everything that can be saved? What does having the original door do? Does it increase the value? Consider how using a patch panel instead of replacing an entire piece effects the cost of the restoration. At some point, the wallet must rule over the head and heart. The case here is we are watching a hotdog being made... Sometimes its best to not know what's in them. But, I believe the audience wants to see what's behind the process - the good and the bad. I think that is far better content than watching mechanics yell at each other or telling us who they don't like in the shop... It's about the car! Not the personalities putting it together. :Twocents:
Quote from: Chris G. on October 28, 2010, 07:55:05 AM
Jim,
Seriously man, quit while you're behind. You are starting to sound like a complete tool. Your biggest gripe is that you don't have TV and you want it for free online. If you had a TV, I doubt you would be crying the way you are. :Twocents:
CCR (Dan Woods), in no way does Jim represent the majority of how this site views your show. I know it takes a ton to get a show on TV. Keep up the good work. :2thumbs:
You know something, I don't care if I had tv or not. I also don't care if I'm ahead or behind. But what he said offended me. That's all I'm going to say. I don't speak for any of you I only speak for myself. I wasn't the one that said about using things and and how things would look, it was him and his own words. I just replied back to him was all and now your telling me what my gripe is when you don't even know what offended me.. I was fine before about his show not being available online and even gave him suggestions for down the line. I said I would catch another show that was online for the time being. Not being available to see the stuff online is no biggy to me but when he came back with what he said that was the part that offended me. Because even he had to start out some where.
I also just found out today that my one cousin got direct tv last week and watches the channel and ask me today if I would like to catch the channel with him this weekend I told nope reason is after what was just said last night to me, I'm not watching the program. If it wasn't for that I might have watch the show because I was really starting to enjoy the promos that Dan had on his site that I was seeing. But with all due respect I wish Dan the best with his show. :cheers:
Also for the record so you all know, I never said anything bad about Dan's show either.. all I said "it was to bad it wasn't online" was all. There is no badness in that at all from my point of view.
Quote from: ccr-host on October 28, 2010, 11:27:22 AM
The line between "all original" and "rebuilt" is often blurry.(snip) The portions we saved are what is legally required to continue the registration. The "legal" line in the sand was our primary concern. A complete" re-body" would require a new VIN and registering it as a specialty car, which also means meeting 2010 emissions standards.
I don't find it quite so blurry as you seem to. You seem to think that as long as you keep the portions that still legally represent the original car then it's all good and I am firmly of the opinion that when you swap the numbers from one car to another car, then you have done a rebody. What you are defining as a rebody is what I would term as creating a new vehicle albeit in the example we are debating the new vehicle is purposely created to look like an older one.
To be fair, I'm not accusing you of doing a rebody at this point because I am unaware of which parts of the original car you are retaining. If you are in fact cutting out the metal with numbers and just welding it into something new, then it most definitely IS a rebody.
Given the significance of this car, that may not necessarily be an automotive tragedy but let's not candy coat it and pretend it isn't a rebody if it is by playing games with semantics.
Hey Jim, no offence intended. I was only trying to explain why we don't put our shows on the net because they would not be worth as much to a broadcaster if we were giving them away prior to broadcast. Nothing more. And there is nothing wrong with not having cable or a dish. NOTHING! Cheers,
Quote from: ccr-host on October 28, 2010, 03:04:12 PM
I think the perspective that must be kept about how this car is restored is, why save everything that can be saved? What does having the original door do? Does it increase the value? Consider how using a patch panel instead of replacing an entire piece effects the cost of the restoration. At some point, the wallet must rule over the head and heart. The case here is we are watching a hotdog being made... Sometimes its best to not know what's in them. But, I believe the audience wants to see what's behind the process - the good and the bad. I think that is far better content than watching mechanics yell at each other or telling us who they don't like in the shop... It's about the car! Not the personalities putting it together. :Twocents:
I agree with you Dan save what you can as effectively as you can :)
I think it will be a cool car that will be enjoyable to drive as well as look at; can I drive it some time? :vert:
So is the car on it's way to SEMA yet?
What are the plans for it next, car shows for a year and then off to auction???
I would like to see it some time in person how about taking it on the hotrod power tour next year?
Drive em like they were meant to be driven..
Quote from: Ghoste on October 28, 2010, 04:48:15 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 28, 2010, 11:27:22 AM
The line between "all original" and "rebuilt" is often blurry.(snip) The portions we saved are what is legally required to continue the registration. The "legal" line in the sand was our primary concern. A complete" re-body" would require a new VIN and registering it as a specialty car, which also means meeting 2010 emissions standards.
I don't find it quite so blurry as you seem to. You seem to think that as long as you keep the portions that still legally represent the original car then it's all good and I am firmly of the opinion that when you swap the numbers from one car to another car, then you have done a rebody. What you are defining as a rebody is what I would term as creating a new vehicle albeit in the example we are debating the new vehicle is purposely created to look like an older one.
To be fair, I'm not accusing you of doing a rebody at this point because I am unaware of which parts of the original car you are retaining. If you are in fact cutting out the metal with numbers and just welding it into something new, then it most definitely IS a rebody.
Given the significance of this car, that may not necessarily be an automotive tragedy but let's not candy coat it and pretend it isn't a rebody if it is by playing games with semantics.
Ghoste, I understand the perspective. But, who determines where the line is? What matters "legally" is which numbers you swap. The numbers we switched are not the complete VIN and not required for registration. They are ID numbers. IF you create a complete new car, like what happens with the Dynacorn bodies, it can be a nightmare to register them. Some DMV's will not accept that a 69 Camaro is a 69 Camaro because it was never registered in 1969. Even if you build the Camaro to exact 1969 specs. While a couple of states will register it by it's looks others are far more particular. California is one of those hard to register states. What you end up fighting against isn't a philosophical issue, it's a bureaucratic issue if you don't keep specific parts of the car and build from there. It's kind of like a home renovation. Done in a certain manner, you don't need a permit because it can be deemed "remodelling". Done the other way you open yourself up to making presentations to the local city council for easements, permits, etc...
I don't think you do understand my perspective and I still think you are playing with semantics. Although I would agree with you that there is a difficulty in agreeing at what point so much of an original car is gone that it can no longer be considered that same original car I draw a very different conclusion on what defines rebodying. It appears to me that you seem to feel it doens't exist until you do a complete body change like the Dynacorn replacement bodies. To me, and just about everyone I know in the hobby, a rebody occurs anytime the identifying numbers are swapped onto a different car.
By the way, if you switched numbers on the car that weren't assigned or attached at the factory in some way I'm curious as to what they were?
the #'s that were moved or cut out were the #'s in the drip rail around the trunk area.the whole area was rusted out so they cut them saying they would reinstall them as they were identifing #'s for the car. the fender tag was gone due to previous accident. the vin tag is in place in the dash structure.
Dan, are you getting your balls busted over at the corvette forum for cutting up the C6 as well? :D
Ghoste, I completely agree about what you are saying. I am also a big opponent of rebodies and deceit. I think the wrong person is being questioned though. CCR did the work, but I am guessing the ultimate decisions regarding the car would fall under the owner (Keisler). To purposely cut off the VIN areas to save smells shady to me. I just don't get it. Well I get it, but you know what I mean.
Then let's be clear that the number cut out from the trunk rail IS an identifying number. Even though it may not be the one that everyone looks at first when determining the VIn for purposes of vehicle registration it most absolutely is there from the factory as an identifier. It is placed there by federal legislation as part of an effort to eliminate car theft and (ironically?) "chop" shops :lol:. It is one of the numbers used to determine a "numbers matching" car as many well know.
Now, that being said, I'm still not sure if I take the position that this particular car should be considered a rebody at this point. I'm personally still on the fence as to what I think the project is. I don't think I hold it in as much contempt as I first did but I still don't see it as a restoration. It's more like a rolling advertisement for a couple of companies being pulled off as entertainment. But not necessarily a rebody either.
I agree Chris and I'm not really questioning him about decisions as much as challenging him on what constitutes a rebody. My question about which number was cut out was out a desire to know which number could be cut out and not be construed as an id number.
As much as I also oppose rebodies, I'm not even sure yet where I stand on this car if it was rebodied depending on the final use. An automotive moral dilemma :lol:.
:yesnod: :iagree:
has the car got the original core support with the vin ?? :yesnod: , is there a picture of the top of the dash anywhere ? :scratchchin:
Quote from: Sydmoe on October 28, 2010, 06:44:31 PM
Dan, are you getting your balls busted over at the corvette forum for cutting up the C6 as well? :D
Dan,I would guess you get this alot.I know you like to keep original panels when you can,but if there shot,there shot.And you still have the main structure, and if you didn't t have AMD most cars restored these day wouldn't be. And moving those numbers shouldn't be a big dealer.If you restoring it,that's part of it I would think. I was lucky my charger was in pretty good shape and now I have a few small patch's to weld and Ill be done the with the welder. :2thumbs:
my take on this after being on here as long as i have is that im really going to enjoy this show.is it a rare car anymore? not as much in my mind since there was nothing left. but it is another saved charger that will cruise with the best of them (hopefully and not in a bubble to be stared at) and we will get to watch this car be constructed. its gona be a nice looking machine and they have atleast chosen to let me see it happen. :2thumbs:
Cars were restored for years before AMD came along, they just made it easier and cheaper (and let the record show my gratitude for it). A better question might be, if AMD weren't paying for it, would this particular car be getting the job done the way it is, or at all?
BTW, how many C6's did they make?
Quote from: tan top on October 28, 2010, 06:56:18 PM
is there a picture of the top of the dash anywhere ? :scratchchin:
It was shown in episode two.
Quote from: Ghoste on October 28, 2010, 07:02:35 PM
BTW, how many C6's did they make?
So far two,they must be getting worried about the drag race and trying to slide a ringer into the mix.
Are they being redone side by side? (I know I know, watch the show and then I won't have to ask)
Quote from: UFO on October 28, 2010, 07:08:20 PM
Quote from: tan top on October 28, 2010, 06:56:18 PM
is there a picture of the top of the dash anywhere ? :scratchchin:
It was shown in episode two.
oh right !! :cheers: was it a 3 speaker dash ?? :popcrn:
Quote from: Ghoste on October 28, 2010, 07:11:29 PM
Are they being redone side by side? (I know I know, watch the show and then I won't have to ask)
No, vette being done in FL by corvette specialty, XP- being done by AMD in GA I believe.
Quote from: Ghoste on October 28, 2010, 07:02:35 PM
Cars were restored for years before AMD came along, they just made it easier and cheaper (and let the record show my gratitude for it). A better question might be, if AMD weren't paying for it, would this particular car be getting the job done the way it is, or at all?
BTW, how many C6's did they make?
This is true and I agree with you.I mean that there are allot of what would have been parts car on the road today,because AMD offers cheaper and easier. :Twocents:
I agree with you on the parts car thing but I would hope that no one would have parted this one out. :o
Quote from: tan top on October 28, 2010, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: UFO on October 28, 2010, 07:08:20 PM
Quote from: tan top on October 28, 2010, 06:56:18 PM
is there a picture of the top of the dash anywhere ? :scratchchin:
It was shown in episode two.
oh right !! :cheers: was it a 3 speaker dash ?? :popcrn:
The clip does not show enough to see if it's a three speaker.It's a real close shot of just the vin tag.
Quote from: UFO on October 28, 2010, 09:25:00 PM
Quote from: tan top on October 28, 2010, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: UFO on October 28, 2010, 07:08:20 PM
Quote from: tan top on October 28, 2010, 06:56:18 PM
is there a picture of the top of the dash anywhere ? :scratchchin:
It was shown in episode two.
oh right !! :cheers: was it a 3 speaker dash ?? :popcrn:
The clip does not show enough to see if it's a three speaker.It's a real close shot of just the vin tag.
The dash had a single speaker.
Quote from: Ghoste on October 28, 2010, 06:26:59 PM
I don't think you do understand my perspective and I still think you are playing with semantics. Although I would agree with you that there is a difficulty in agreeing at what point so much of an original car is gone that it can no longer be considered that same original car I draw a very different conclusion on what defines rebodying. It appears to me that you seem to feel it doens't exist until you do a complete body change like the Dynacorn replacement bodies. To me, and just about everyone I know in the hobby, a rebody occurs anytime the identifying numbers are swapped onto a different car.
By the way, if you switched numbers on the car that weren't assigned or attached at the factory in some way I'm curious as to what they were?
Guys, let me say that I am finding this discussion very interesting. I was on set working on the Vette all day today and was running back and forth to my laptop between takes! It's been very distracting... in a good way!
Ghoste; yes, I am playing with semantics because that is what the law does. The law is very clear about removing the VIN plate from a car. Being caught with VIN tag rivets in California is a ten thousand dollar fine! But, what you are calling "re-bodying", I consider (along with a number of people in the industry) to be "re-skinning". That is not semantics – it's perspective. Just as "remodeling" your home is different than "renovating" it. What you and your friends in the hobby may consider to be "re-bodying" is not what the aftermarket industry and the law considers it to be.
I had a very interesting conversation with Jim Barber, the owner of CARS Inc. at the ARMO banquet, during SEMA a couple of years ago. Jim is producing the Yenko Continuation series Camaro's out of his shop in NC using Dynacorn shells. He's a walking encyclopedia on this subject. He enlightened me about the federal laws regarding "re-bodying". They were created for the trucking industry as a means to replace cabs on roll over transport trucks, a common practice in the transport industry. In those situations, a dash VIN can be transferred to a new cab with approval and inspection by a state police officer. However, certain states do not permit their officers to perform the approval on cars, despite the law not being specific to trucks. It's a situation where federal law should supersede state law but, it doesn't – out of semantics! Some states are very aggressive with their clunker laws, while others are more passive. These are tricky waters to navigate.
Dynacorn shells are a re-bodying product because they provide the entire body. Legally, they are considered a replacement part and should only be used if the purchaser has a damaged vehicle and will be transferring the remaining parts to the new shell. If you build an entire car using the Dynacorn bodies (as we did last year), then you are required (by California) to meet 2010 emission standards and crash testing, OR register the vehicle as a "specialty" vehicle, meaning it is not registered as a Chevrolet Camaro. I believe the state of California allows 50 specialty registrations each year. Getting one is like lining up for a rock concert outside the DMV on December 31st. Those 50 registrations are gone in 15 minutes!
As for the "sprit" of the activity, I agree with you in that the definition is by no means firm. When you replace a fender or a door does a reproduction part void the originality of the car? Would a NOS part not do the same? If there is an acceptable percentage, then who determines it? If a part wasn't installed at the factory, then it's not an all original car, correct? So, one collision voids your perspective. The facts are we are replacing the majority of panels with Chrysler approved and licensed parts that are not manufactured by Chrysler but approved by Chrysler. These are not knock offs! The Chrysler licensed radiator support we used did not have any number stamped on it as was done by the factory. So, we did not replace a number – we assigned the proper number to the part... just like the factory did. That original radiator support will be made into a bicycle next month and all traces of its original use will be gone. The law does not have any regulations about ID numbers on parts – only VIN's.
I'm sorry to say that the poster who claimed these ID numbers are used to determine a "numbers matching car" is wrong. They do not. A numbers matching car means the car has the original engine as confirmed by a build sheet or fender tag... none of which this car has. Sheet metal origins are irrelevant to "numbers matching".
As for our activities being deceitful; all I can say is, if we were trying to deceive anyone we surely wouldn't have shown it on national television.
Quote from: Ghoste on October 28, 2010, 07:02:35 PM
Cars were restored for years before AMD came along, they just made it easier and cheaper (and let the record show my gratitude for it). A better question might be, if AMD weren't paying for it, would this particular car be getting the job done the way it is, or at all?
BTW, how many C6's did they make?
I think the answer to all those questions lies in the fact that this car sat for almost 20 years, had parts stripped from it and no one (until Shafi came along) was interested in it. I think we should tip our hats to Shafi rather than condem his methodology in restoring it.
As a side note, we are looking for an original air breather. Anyone know where we can find one? We're using Edelbrock carbs.
Thanks,
Dan
Dan, as you know, there are always going to be number of people (in any brand of car) who see things differently to the general hobbyist and their personal views are always going to be seen as "anal" if I can say that here, even though you can see where they're coming from.
I think as long as the Charger in question retains it's original chassis and some of the shell, any bolt on panels are irrelevant to maintaining the car's authenticity. Hell, there are Daytonas and Superbirds that have had major structural work performed on them and no one is questioning the owners intention to deceive there.
Just think of the outcry had your show shown that you had found the brouchure car but it was so far rusted that it was only good as a parts car for a better junker.
Keep up the good work.
I'd love to see your show and in particular the episodes featuring this car.
Hopefully we'll see it in Oz one day.
If you believe that numbers matching in the Mopar hobby does not also involve having the numbers on the rad core support and the trunk lip match on the model years available then you need to learn a great deal more about us. We are not like Chevy or Ford owners. I would be very suprised if Galen didn't check those very same numbers when he did his "approval" for you. Even Shafi knows they are important. That is why a proper description for a Mopar will sometimes talk about numbers matching engine and trans and other times talk about being a complete numbers matching car.
The same holds true for what those of you in the aftermarket business that have decided to differentiate reskinnning versus rebodying. A little research might be in order as to how it is viewed within the Mopar community before treating it too dismissively. It's a topic that is debated frequently over whether or not it's an acceptable activity.
Comparing it to what I do in my home is a poor analogy as there are no registration numbers in my home.
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 01:04:25 AM
Quote from: UFO on October 28, 2010, 09:25:00 PM
Quote from: tan top on October 28, 2010, 07:17:48 PM
Quote from: UFO on October 28, 2010, 07:08:20 PM
Quote from: tan top on October 28, 2010, 06:56:18 PM
is there a picture of the top of the dash anywhere ? :scratchchin:
It was shown in episode two.
oh right !! :cheers: was it a 3 speaker dash ?? :popcrn:
The clip does not show enough to see if it's a three speaker.It's a real close shot of just the vin tag.
The dash had a single speaker.
oh right single one Eh :scratchchin: thanks guys for the reply appreciated :cheers: :cheers:
so then , just the vin shot !! showed the original vin rivets ?
So there is no actual proof that this is the brochure car since no one knows the vin???
Correct. There is also some speculation that it isn't because it doesn't feature any 68 items (like the brochure car did). It's possible they made two, it's possible that it was modified. Who knows? All that is known for sure is that there are supposed to be ZERO and yet, here it is.
Tantop, yes and they look like they have been there a long time.
Dan , Check that tailpanel(if it's still around) The R/T badge has two mounting studs vs the standard charger which has three studs.
I seem to recall the tailpanel as having been checked before the tv show ever got involved?
Quote from: UFO on October 29, 2010, 06:42:07 AM
Tantop, yes and they look like they have been there a long time.
Dan , Check that tailpanel(if it's still around) The R/T badge has two mounting studs vs the standard charger which has three studs.
:cheers: thanks for the info !! hmmm :scratchchin: :think:
:popcrn:
I speculated the doors had the hemi badges on them. Was the vin on the drivers door?....not that the badges could have been added later though. Any pics of the inside where the dual exhaust hanger bolts could be seen?...not that that could prove much either.
Quote from: The70RT on October 29, 2010, 09:19:05 AM
I speculated the doors had the hemi badges on them. Was the vin on the drivers door?....not that the badges could have been added later though. Any pics of the inside where the dual exhaust hanger bolts could be seen?...not that that could prove much either.
Dennis 69 was the last year before the vin decal in the door. 70 was the model year that started.
Quote from: tan top on October 29, 2010, 07:15:24 AM
Quote from: UFO on October 29, 2010, 06:42:07 AM
Tantop, yes and they look like they have been there a long time.
Dan , Check that tailpanel(if it's still around) The R/T badge has two mounting studs vs the standard charger which has three studs.
:cheers: thanks for the info !! hmmm :scratchchin: :think:
:popcrn:
MOre speculation,but the factory or the orig selling dealer could have installed R/T emblems to "match" up with the HEMI engine after the ads ,etc. were done...... for selling purposes.
Quote from: Ghoste on October 29, 2010, 03:15:11 AM
If you believe that numbers matching in the Mopar hobby does not also involve having the numbers on the rad core support and the trunk lip match on the model years available then you need to learn a great deal more about us. We are not like Chevy or Ford owners. I would be very suprised if Galen didn't check those very same numbers when he did his "approval" for you. Even Shafi knows they are important. That is why a proper description for a Mopar will sometimes talk about numbers matching engine and trans and other times talk about being a complete numbers matching car.
The same holds true for what those of you in the aftermarket business that have decided to differentiate reskinnning versus rebodying. A little research might be in order as to how it is viewed within the Mopar community before treating it too dismissively. It's a topic that is debated frequently over whether or not it's an acceptable activity.
Comparing it to what I do in my home is a poor analogy as there are no registration numbers in my home.
:iagree: (from the #s perspective)
Not trying to start a pissing contest but I am in the same camp on this one. I have been shopping for a Charger for a year now (looking for years but with no funds) and an exceedingly predominant number of sellers know that a numbers car (Mopar) includes the rad support and gutter lip numbers. The concept of "re-skinning" is a fuzzy point and is unfortunately open to personal preferences i suppose. I don't consider it a problem to put new panels or metal on a car considering they are Chrysler approved replacement parts. Even if you buy an AMD rad support and cut in the stampings. Fundamentally you are "repairing" the damage to that component. I get jumpy when two cars sit next to each other and a rad support/trunk gutter/dash is cut out and put on the "clean body". Its a small but important semantics issue about the intent. Isn't that what the law is supposed to be about, intent? Moving the good parts from the donor to perform the restoration is a repair intent, but simply moving the #s from the wreck to the donor and the intent changes. It is to forgo the repair in light of a change of identification. :yesnod:
YMMV
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 02:02:17 AM
As for our activities being deceitful; all I can say is, if we were trying to deceive anyone we surely wouldn't have shown it on national television.
I would say any claims of deceit would be completely absurd as well. The bottom line is that in this particular case a very rough car is being restored and saved. The restoration is being documented and aired on TV. If the car ever comes up for sale let the prospective buyers decide if the restoration was done to their likeing. One could debate the best way to restore any particular car relentlessly and always continue to find conflicting views and beliefs. At the end of the day, a nice car is being saved and restored to a high quality. Better yet we get to tune in and watch it. I would have to commend Dan for taking the time to discuss and comment on the build with us on this forum (even when he gets his balls busted a little).
Quote from: NGC414 on October 29, 2010, 10:29:23 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 02:02:17 AM
As for our activities being deceitful; all I can say is, if we were trying to deceive anyone we surely wouldn't have shown it on national television.
I would say any claims of deceit would be completely absurd as well. The bottom line is that in this particular case a very rough car is being restored and saved. The restoration is being documented and aired on TV. If the car ever comes up for sale let the prospective buyers decide if the restoration was done to their likeing. One could debate the best way to restore any particular car relentlessly and always continue to find conflicting views and beliefs. At the end of the day, a nice car is being saved and restored to a high quality. Better yet we get to tune in and watch it. I would have to commend Dan for taking the time to discuss and comment on the build with us on this forum (even when he gets his balls busted a little).
:loser: :iagree:
If they would have saved a bunch of parts as an exercise to show people how to patch stuff a different group would be on here gripeing "why didnt they just replace it?"
The car is being saved. AMD is a big sponser so of course they are going to use nice new parts as much as they can. I for one am very thankful to AMD for bringing us nice repro parts for these cars.
Quote from: NGC414 on October 29, 2010, 10:29:23 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 02:02:17 AM
As for our activities being deceitful; all I can say is, if we were trying to deceive anyone we surely wouldn't have shown it on national television.
I would say any claims of deceit would be completely absurd as well. The bottom line is that in this particular case a very rough car is being restored and saved. The restoration is being documented and aired on TV. If the car ever comes up for sale let the prospective buyers decide if the restoration was done to their likeing. One could debate the best way to restore any particular car relentlessly and always continue to find conflicting views and beliefs. At the end of the day, a nice car is being saved and restored to a high quality. Better yet we get to tune in and watch it. I would have to commend Dan for taking the time to discuss and comment on the build with us on this forum (even when he gets his balls busted a little).
Getting my balls busted here is part of the fun I'm having with you all. This is a great thread! The people here have far more insight to Mopar's than I do, so it's an education for me too. I just hope my naivety doesn't offend anyone here.
There are some great photo's of the car in the latest edition of Mopar Enthusiast. Jump to page 46 on the pull down and you can see how much of the car was left when we started to re-skin it.
I'd be curious to know how those who have concerns would have handled the process of rebuilding this car to keep it more original. Consider that nearly every part we used was an authorized and licensed Chrysler part and that the damage was so extensive that most of the car wouldn't qualify it as a parts car.
Quote from: bakerhillpins on October 29, 2010, 09:54:33 AM
Quote from: Ghoste on October 29, 2010, 03:15:11 AM
If you believe that numbers matching in the Mopar hobby does not also involve having the numbers on the rad core support and the trunk lip match on the model years available then you need to learn a great deal more about us. We are not like Chevy or Ford owners. I would be very suprised if Galen didn't check those very same numbers when he did his "approval" for you. Even Shafi knows they are important. That is why a proper description for a Mopar will sometimes talk about numbers matching engine and trans and other times talk about being a complete numbers matching car.
The same holds true for what those of you in the aftermarket business that have decided to differentiate reskinnning versus rebodying. A little research might be in order as to how it is viewed within the Mopar community before treating it too dismissively. It's a topic that is debated frequently over whether or not it's an acceptable activity.
Comparing it to what I do in my home is a poor analogy as there are no registration numbers in my home.
iagree: (from the #s perspective)
Not trying to start a pissing contest but I am in the same camp on this one. I have been shopping for a Charger for a year now (looking for years but with no funds) and an exceedingly predominant number of sellers know that a numbers car (Mopar) includes the rad support and gutter lip numbers. The concept of "re-skinning" is a fuzzy point and is unfortunately open to personal preferences i suppose. I don't consider it a problem to put new panels or metal on a car considering they are Chrysler approved replacement parts. Even if you buy an AMD rad support and cut in the stampings. Fundamentally you are "repairing" the damage to that component. I get jumpy when two cars sit next to each other and a rad support/trunk gutter/dash is cut out and put on the "clean body". Its a small but important semantics issue about the intent. Isn't that what the law is supposed to be about, intent? Moving the good parts from the donor to perform the restoration is a repair intent, but simply moving the #s from the wreck to the donor and the intent changes. It is to forgo the repair in light of a change of identification. :yesnod:
YMMV
Yes, you are correct. It is about "intent". The intent here is to confirm the originality of the car - not deceive it. The numbers on the rain gutter and the rad support confirm that the VIN is correct. Removing the VIN plate and replacing it would be deception and illegal. Returning a partial VIN to a part is perfectly legal. From this point forward, this car will be known as the car restored on Chop Cut Rebuild and any future owner will be able to see the full extent of our intent. This wasn't done behind closed doors. Full disclosure will always be there on video for anyone to see.
So Dan, are you looking at getting yourself a Charger now? The time you spent working on this car and being involved in the Mopar culture on this forum must be starting to rub off on you a little by now! You know that Richard Hammond over at Top Gear got exposed to the Charger in a segment he did........ he ended up getting one for himself!
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 02:18:58 AM
As a side note, we are looking for an original air breather. Anyone know where we can find one? We're using Edelbrock carbs.
Thanks,
Dan
Dan, Mancini Racing has an original style "Chrome Dome" Hemi air cleaner for use with the edelbrock carbs...
manciniracing.com
Quote from: Sydmoe on October 29, 2010, 11:23:05 AM
So Dan, are you looking at getting yourself a Charger now? The time you spent working on this car and being involved in the Mopar culture on this forum must be starting to rub off on you a little by now! You know that Richard Hammond over at Top Gear got exposed to the Charger in a segment he did........ he ended up getting one for himself!
Well, my first exposure to a Mopar was restoring the George Barris Supervan back in 2003. So, I can't say that locked me in as a fan. But, our Cuda build for Goodmark two years ago was a great experience. This car is my favorite so far. The Cuda was a little over the top for my enjoyment. The blower looked cool but, I wouldn't want to take it on a drive to Vegas.
...Speaking of Vegas; ...We're filming the last Charger segment today before we unveil the car at the AMD booth during SEMA next week. I imagine there will be lots of spy pics on the web in a few days. Get your requests in to your favorite photographer now!
Quote from: Daytona R/T SE on October 29, 2010, 11:38:53 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 02:18:58 AM
As a side note, we are looking for an original air breather. Anyone know where we can find one? We're using Edelbrock carbs.
Thanks,
Dan
Dan, Mancini Racing has an original style "Chrome Dome" Hemi air cleaner for use with the edelbrock carbs...
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/hechdoairclb.html
Quote from: tan top on October 29, 2010, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: Daytona R/T SE on October 29, 2010, 11:38:53 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 02:18:58 AM
As a side note, we are looking for an original air breather. Anyone know where we can find one? We're using Edelbrock carbs.
Thanks,
Dan
Dan, Mancini Racing has an original style "Chrome Dome" Hemi air cleaner for use with the edelbrock carbs...
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/hechdoairclb.html
Close, but they need the one for the edlebrock carbs, Mancini has that too. :2thumbs: :coolgleamA:
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 11:40:17 AM
...Speaking of Vegas; ...We're filming the last Charger segment today before we unveil the car at the AMD booth during SEMA next week. I imagine there will be lots of spy pics on the web in a few days. Get your requests in to your favorite photographer now!
Well I've always wanted to see your photography skills, how about posting a sneak peak for your new friends!
Quote from: Daytona R/T SE on October 29, 2010, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: tan top on October 29, 2010, 11:42:04 AM
Quote from: Daytona R/T SE on October 29, 2010, 11:38:53 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 02:18:58 AM
As a side note, we are looking for an original air breather. Anyone know where we can find one? We're using Edelbrock carbs.
Thanks,
Dan
Dan, Mancini Racing has an original style "Chrome Dome" Hemi air cleaner for use with the edelbrock carbs...
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/hechdoairclb.html
Close, but they need the one for the edlebrock carbs, Mancini has that too.
i see , :cheers: thanks for the correction ! never knew they had to be closer for the eddy carbs , !! was planning to use one of these aircleaners, when i build up a elephant motor for my charger ! one day ,
I don't see the Edelbrock air cleaner listed seperately, but I know they have it, It's mentioned in the last line of the listing for the intake and carbs (which is on my wish list, too :coolgleamA:)
"Don't forget to ask about our new HEMI Chrome Dome Air Cleaner designed for use on the newer style Edelbrock Carbs."
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/sthemapa.html
Great Thread!
When I bought my 69 R/T SE, I had someone check the car out and take pictures of the VIN on the dash, fender tag, drip rail numbers and radiator support numbers. To me it was important and in my mind constitutes a numbers matching body.
Dan, Thanks for participating on this forum and answering all our questions in a polite, intelligent and non defensive way. I am looking forward to seeing the show about the Charger.
John
the wife and i were watching the first episode over again the other night and i told her that dan was on DC.COM and was explaining to everyone about the build and explaining why they have to do what they are doing. not too many people would stay and take the abuse. most would up and run. thanks dan for that. enjoy building the most awsome car on the planet :2thumbs: (at least in my mind) :rofl:
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 10:54:01 AMThere are some great photo's of the car in the latest edition of Mopar Enthusiast. Jump to page 46 on the pull down and you can see how much of the car was left when we started to re-skin it.
http://editions.amospublishing.com/MPRE/default.aspx?d=20101101
WOW that sucker was rusted away!! :o
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 10:54:01 AM
There are some great photo's of the car in the latest edition of Mopar Enthusiast. Jump to page 46 on the pull down and you can see how much of the car was left when we started to re-skin it.
Dan do you have any more detailed photos you can post on here of the before condition of the car?
Quote from: PocketThunder on October 29, 2010, 01:03:29 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 10:54:01 AMThere are some great photo's of the car in the latest edition of Mopar Enthusiast. Jump to page 46 on the pull down and you can see how much of the car was left when we started to re-skin it.
http://editions.amospublishing.com/MPRE/default.aspx?d=20101101
WOW that sucker was rusted away!! :o
:o
:scope: i spy a dana axel bump stop in picture 19 :yesnod:
Quote from: Charger440RDN on October 29, 2010, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 10:54:01 AM
There are some great photo's of the car in the latest edition of Mopar Enthusiast. Jump to page 46 on the pull down and you can see how much of the car was left when we started to re-skin it.
Dan do you have any more detailed photos you can post on here of the before condition of the car?
yeah would love to see them Dan !! underside shots & stuff :cheers: :popcrn: :2thumbs:
I also commend dan for being able to have a civil dicussion with many of us beating him up . Many others would have cussed us and ran off . Great attiude and endurance putting up with us . :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
But i still feel many of the parts where just tossed when they could have been saves , the core support , inner structure , and many other vital to the structure of the car . Nice shiney new parts , blinded the build when original parts could have been clean , fixed and kept on the car. Even the rear trunk rail could have been kept in tact and not just cutting the numbers out . Again just my opinion of what i would have done with such a rare car . I would also liked to have seen the Hemi specific parts like torq boxes filmed & feature more in documenting the car .
Brandon , 69 hemi car is a great example of saving a rusty hemi car more to the way i would feel more comfortable with . http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,36552.0.html
Not trying to lead the charge to bust anyone's balls and especially not accusing anyone of being deceitful, I want to add that I also don't endorse the idea that restamping ANY identification numbers on a car is legal. If you can provide evidence that it is legal to stamp any number except for the full VIN, then I will still take exception to the practice as falling into that "poor automotive ethics" category. The second half of my point may be a subjective opinion but I still believe that the first half makes it moot.
In your situation I think it is a much better thing to weld the exisitng number into the new metal. Unless you are doing a rebody and then I think it is wrong. Except if this is a real XP Hemi then it deserves to live on more than Lee1 did. How is that for a little hypocrisy? :lol:
Having a great final build day on the Charger! Jimenez Brothers are cutting and buffing the panels, Oldies Glass is installing rear quarter glass, Ted Stevens and friends have been working non-stop for 5 days, Josh and his crew are putting in fuel pump, water pump, alternator ...Bouchillon has shipped everything a Hemi needs to run. It's an amazing day. WE'RE GONNA MAKE IT TO SEMA!
Quote from: Ghoste on October 29, 2010, 05:29:27 PM
Not trying to lead the charge to bust anyone's balls and especially not accusing anyone of being deceitful, I want to add that I also don't endorse the idea that restamping ANY identification numbers on a car is legal. If you can provide evidence that it is legal to stamp any number except for the full VIN, then I will still take exception to the practice as falling into that "poor automotive ethics" category. The second half of my point may be a subjective opinion but I still believe that the first half makes it moot.
In your situation I think it is a much better thing to weld the exisitng number into the new metal. Unless you are doing a rebody and then I think it is wrong. Except if this is a real XP Hemi then it deserves to live on more than Lee1 did. How is that for a little hypocrisy? :lol:
Ghoste,
Why are you calling it "re-stamping"? Did you see what we did? We cut out the section that was stamped at the factory and graphed it onto the AMD part. We did NOT stamp a single letter or number. Please don't imply we did.
I'm not implying that at all, go back and re read what I wrote. I was addressing your statement that restamping numbers other than the primary vin (such as a rad core support or the trunk rail number) was an acceptable practice. I made it very clear that I understood you were not doing so as I specifically applauded you for not doing so.
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 06:43:04 PM
Having a great final build day on the Charger! Jimenez Brothers are cutting and buffing the panels, Oldies Glass is installing rear quarter glass, Ted Stevens and friends have been working non-stop for 5 days, Josh and his crew are putting in fuel pump, water pump, alternator ...Bouchillon has shipped everything a Hemi needs to run. It's an amazing day. WE'RE GONNA MAKE IT TO SEMA!
looking forward to seeing pictures & stuff when the car is completed , thanks for coming on here , & taking the time !! & explaining whats happening Dan , apperciated :cheers: :2thumbs:
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 06:43:04 PM
Having a great final build day on the Charger! Jimenez Brothers are cutting and buffing the panels, Oldies Glass is installing rear quarter glass, Ted Stevens and friends have been working non-stop for 5 days, Josh and his crew are putting in fuel pump, water pump, alternator ...Bouchillon has shipped everything a Hemi needs to run. It's an amazing day. WE'RE GONNA MAKE IT TO SEMA!
Awesome! Can't Waite to see the car.
Quote from: Ghoste on October 29, 2010, 06:46:35 PM
I'm not implying that at all, go back and re read what I wrote.
I did re-read it. For some reason, you are bringing up an activity that we did not do. We did not stamp anything. And you're asking for proof that it's legal. Why? I hope you are not implying that we did that.
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on October 29, 2010, 06:46:35 PM
I'm not implying that at all, go back and re read what I wrote.
I did re-read it. For some reason, you are bringing up an activity that we did not do. We did not stamp anything. And you're asking for proof that it's legal. Why? I hope you are not implying that we did that.
Ghoste,
I'm sorry. It been a long day. I see what you are talking about now. Yes, we did cut out that metal and re-graft it onto the new part. We did not re-stamp it. And you DO know that... again sorry.
I hear you, I'm tired too and I have to also add that upon re-reading the section where I thought you were umplying that restamping was okay, I see that I also misunderstood what you were typing. You didn't say restamping partial vins was okay, you said that re-using them was. I now believe that you meant by this, the cutting out from one car and placing them on another so I do owe you an apology for that.
HOWEVER, I qualify my apology by saying that even though I support the changing of partial vins in the fashion that you are doing it, in which the primary structure of the car appears to be the one receiving it, I absolutely 100% do not in any way whatsoever believe that it is legal or at the vey least ethical to swap them onto a "donor" body. But that goes back to my rebodying arguments and we've largely exhausted that topic inasmuch as it is relevant to this thread. (I think)
I gotta say I think it's great that Dan took the time to talk to us about the show. I can't think of any celebrity hosts that would do the same. It shows that you truley are passionate about what you do. To actually pitch in on each build is something that can't be said about other hosts either. I appreciate what your doing Dan and keep up the great work!
:popcrn: wish-en I had money to do that --- mines not that rusty !!
how do they keep everthing square to weld it back to gether ????
Quote from: tan top on October 29, 2010, 01:30:26 PM
Quote from: PocketThunder on October 29, 2010, 01:03:29 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 10:54:01 AMThere are some great photo's of the car in the latest edition of Mopar Enthusiast. Jump to page 46 on the pull down and you can see how much of the car was left when we started to re-skin it.
http://editions.amospublishing.com/MPRE/default.aspx?d=20101101
WOW that sucker was rusted away!! :o
:o
:scope: i spy a dana axel bump stop in picture 19 :yesnod:
Quote from: Charger440RDN on October 29, 2010, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 29, 2010, 10:54:01 AM
There are some great photo's of the car in the latest edition of Mopar Enthusiast. Jump to page 46 on the pull down and you can see how much of the car was left when we started to re-skin it.
Dan do you have any more detailed photos you can post on here of the before condition of the car?
yeah would love to see them Dan !! underside shots & stuff :cheers: :popcrn: :2thumbs:
I'll try to dig up some others. But, the pics in Mopar Enthusiast are pretty good. Did you flip through the next pages? There's about a dozen more there.
Cheers,
Quote from: HOTROD on October 29, 2010, 11:33:03 PM
:popcrn: wish-en I had money to do that --- mines not that rusty !!
how do they keep everthing square to weld it back to gether ????
Watching todays show explains about the jig the AMD installation crew uses. It mimics the way the factory held the cars together before welding back in the day.
The work they did is definitely not something you can do in your 1 car garage....these guys had all the right tools & the right knowledge to get the job done.
That spot welder was a really choice piece & Dan handled that thing pretty well! :buff:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on October 30, 2010, 08:12:56 AM
Quote from: HOTROD on October 29, 2010, 11:33:03 PM
:popcrn: wish-en I had money to do that --- mines not that rusty !!
how do they keep everthing square to weld it back to gether ????
Watching todays show explains about the jig the AMD installation crew uses. It mimics the way the factory held the cars together before welding back in the day.
The work they did is definitely not something you can do in your 1 car garage....these guys had all the right tools & the right knowledge to get the job done.
That spot welder was a really choice piece & Dan handled that thing pretty well! :buff:
that spot welder was everything on this build.really cool to see this from this view with every piece in a charger. :coolgleamA: awsome show for the charger :rofl:
I just finish watch todays show. It s just like a new car,I would have liked that spot welder.
Dan going through AMDs stock room most have been like being in a candy store. :yesnod:
The show comes on in 5 minutes
dan, your really gettin in up to the elbows on that vett job. plus all that fitting and welding on the charger, not just the host,your the do it all man. good job :2thumbs:
Dan, who is the manufacturer of that spot welder you used on the charger? Thanks in advance and I really enjoy your show.
Quote from: 1RareBird on October 31, 2010, 01:06:25 PM
Dan, who is the manufacturer of that spot welder you used on the charger? Thanks in advance and I really enjoy your show.
I wondered the same thing and went a googlin' :icon_smile_cool:
www.prospot.com
Quote from: dodgecharger-fan on October 31, 2010, 01:13:43 PM
Quote from: 1RareBird on October 31, 2010, 01:06:25 PM
Dan, who is the manufacturer of that spot welder you used on the charger? Thanks in advance and I really enjoy your show.
I wondered the same thing and went a googlin' :icon_smile_cool:
www.prospot.com
Yes, it is a Prospot welder. They're not cheap! Even some very good pro shops won't make the investment. We used the same welder a couple of seasons ago at American Musclecars on the Dynacorn Camaro. It's a great tool. Saves dozens of hours to install a new panel.
Quote from: ccr-host on October 31, 2010, 03:19:29 PM
Quote from: dodgecharger-fan on October 31, 2010, 01:13:43 PM
Quote from: 1RareBird on October 31, 2010, 01:06:25 PM
Dan, who is the manufacturer of that spot welder you used on the charger? Thanks in advance and I really enjoy your show.
I wondered the same thing and went a googlin' :icon_smile_cool:
www.prospot.com
Yes, it is a Prospot welder. They're not cheap! Even some very good pro shops won't make the investment. We used the same welder a couple of seasons ago at American Musclecars on the Dynacorn Camaro. It's a great tool. Saves dozens of hours to install a new panel.
AND it looks FACTORY.
Quote from: 1HotDaytona on October 31, 2010, 03:23:01 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on October 31, 2010, 03:19:29 PM
Quote from: dodgecharger-fan on October 31, 2010, 01:13:43 PM
Quote from: 1RareBird on October 31, 2010, 01:06:25 PM
Dan, who is the manufacturer of that spot welder you used on the charger? Thanks in advance and I really enjoy your show.
I wondered the same thing and went a googlin' :icon_smile_cool:
www.prospot.com
Yes, it is a Prospot welder. They're not cheap! Even some very good pro shops won't make the investment. We used the same welder a couple of seasons ago at American Musclecars on the Dynacorn Camaro. It's a great tool. Saves dozens of hours to install a new panel.
AND it looks FACTORY.
You bet it does! That's its best feature.
Dan: I have to say I was riveted to the screen today as well. I really enjoyed this segment and the spotwelder proves this car is going to be a step above most of them. As a car guy I watch all the TV shows dealing with the hobby but most of them are just boring advertisements, not yours. Keep up the good work! I think you're a fellow Canadian too eh?
Sheldon
California VIN laws at http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/VINfraud/VINfraudCA.shtml
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on October 31, 2010, 10:17:19 PM
California VIN laws at http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/VINfraud/VINfraudCA.shtml
Awsome link! Thanks Alaskan.
A little something for my new friends at dc.com
Enjoy! :cheers:
Nice! any chance of getting a bigger pic. like 800 or so?.. :drool5:
Quote from: Brock Samson on November 02, 2010, 01:42:25 AM
Nice! any chance of getting a bigger pic. like 800 or so?.. :drool5:
I tried to post a larger pic and it was rejected. I'm sure there are more than a few dc.com members at SEMA this week, so I wouldn't be surprised if you see more pop up!
But, it's good to see some history saved, eh?
It has to be less than 200k in size unless you host it on something like photobucket.
It definitley looks good. :2thumbs:
Quote from: ccr-host on November 02, 2010, 01:30:49 AM
A little something for my new friends at dc.com
Enjoy! :cheers:
:scope: ......... :drool5: looks good !! :yesnod: take the wheels away & it looks pretty damn stock from that picture :yesnod:
thanks for the picture Dan :cheers: need to see more :popcrn:
Quote from: ccr-host on November 02, 2010, 01:30:49 AM
A little something for my new friends at dc.com
Enjoy! :cheers:
Dan that looks fricken awesome.
Kudos for a job very well done!!!
He is making the mystery continue with small pic. Does it have "Hemi" emblems on the doors?
wow, how sweet is that thing :2thumbs: cant wait to get through the next few episodes to see it up close. great job dan :cheers: you and your crew deserve a toast :cheers: :notworthy:
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 02, 2010, 06:46:36 AM
He is making the mystery continue with small pic. Does it have "Hemi" emblems on the doors?
Yes, and yes! :yesnod:
Quote from: ccr-host on November 02, 2010, 09:53:12 AM
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 02, 2010, 06:46:36 AM
He is making the mystery continue with small pic. Does it have "Hemi" emblems on the doors?
Yes, and yes! :yesnod:
Very cool. :coolgleamA:
Feel free to email the pic and I'll resize and post it. I'm sure many others here can do the same also. :icon_smile_cool:
WOW! :o :drool5:
very nice.....
thats all I can muster because of the rims, sorry ;)
Quote from: Khyron on November 02, 2010, 12:08:15 PM
very nice.....
thats all I can muster because of the rims, sorry ;)
Rims can always be changed!
yes, that they can ;)
I like the rims! +1 :2thumbs:
About the rims; we wanted something similar to the original 5 spoke hubcap with the red center. We looked at making the center cap red but, it just didn't look right on those wheels. Plus, we would be making a pretty dramatic change to Jason Rushforth's design by painting it red. So, we opted for a simple 5 spoke, 18 inch wheel.
Funny, no one has mentioned the lack of wheel well trim. Hmmm. But, people seldom comment on what is NOT done to a car, only what IS done. Leaving it off must have been a good call. Thoughts?
Quote from: Tilar on November 02, 2010, 03:42:40 AM
It has to be less than 200k in size unless you host it on something like photobucket.
It definitley looks good. :2thumbs:
Thanks. Yeah, we're pretty proud of it! 7 months of very hard work.
Yes, the pics are on photobucket.
Quote from: ccr-host on November 02, 2010, 01:14:16 PM
Funny, no one has mentioned the lack of wheel well trim. Hmmm. But, people seldom comment on what is NOT done to a car, only what IS done. Leaving it off must have been a good call. Thoughts?
i didn't comment on it because i can't see it in the small pic ;) just those huge rims hehehe
Me personally, I love the wheel well molding. one of those stock trim pieces for the charger that others had to pay for. But I guess with all that shiney stuff in the wheel well it would probubly have been too much ;)
I don't want to come off as a jerk, Honestly like the car from what I can see, I like 90% of teh car... but you know what they say, you can't love everything... your hard work payed off, The body looks wonderful.
yep, i agree with the small pic thing. hard to see the detail in that pic although i went without the wheel well trim on my car. it is hanging on the wall waiting for me to decide about it. :2thumbs:
That was done fast!
Can't wait to see some bigger pics.
You guys wanna work on my 69 Dodge pick up??
I think you better install that wheel well trim,otherwise people are going to assume that they dont fit.
yea i probably will next spring after all the winter projects are done on her. :2thumbs:
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 02, 2010, 02:21:53 PM
yea i probably will next spring after all the winter projects are done on her. :2thumbs:
Nah, I meant on the AMD car.
Quote from: ccr-host on November 02, 2010, 01:21:29 PM
Quote from: Tilar on November 02, 2010, 03:42:40 AM
It has to be less than 200k in size unless you host it on something like photobucket.
It definitley looks good. :2thumbs:
Thanks. Yeah, we're pretty proud of it! 7 months of very hard work.
Yes, the pics are on photobucket.
Can we have a link to those pics on Photobucket?
68-69 NEED wheel well trim (standard)....1970 is a different story.
You'd think Shafi would have emailed me a pic at least.....sheesh :rotz:
;)
Maybe there'll be no Christmas card either?
IDK all....just went through 29 pages of pics & not one of the 69... :rotz:
The women aint too shabby though :thumbs:
http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/SEMA-Auto-Show-216/page1/
8 pages here....
nuttin
http://www.socalcustoms.com/Shows/2010/SEMA/PREVIEW/index.htm
They did manage to get pics of all the latest ways to have neon lighting under your ricer though. Thankfully, there were a lot of girl pics.
Quote from: ccr-host on November 02, 2010, 03:27:59 AM
Quote from: Brock Samson on November 02, 2010, 01:42:25 AM
Nice! any chance of getting a bigger pic. like 800 or so?.. :drool5:
I tried to post a larger pic and it was rejected.
But, it's good to see some history saved, eh?
Hey Dan email them to me and Ill host em and post them for everyone to enjoy :)
thedodgeboys@yahoo.com
The car looks great,i would have liked to be there this year.Maybe next year :2thumbs:
I have just the one pic right now. My producer Edward has the picaso site. So, I'll email what I have... but, you all can't stop watching the show now just because you've seen the end result! ;)
No way would we stop watching now Dan, the jurney is most of the fun :drool5:
Quote from: thedodgeboys on November 03, 2010, 03:30:35 AM
No way would we stop watching now Dan, the jurney is most of the fun :drool5:
I agree, seeing what was started with and what the final car looks like makes me want to tune in even more!
OK i looked all over the net at SEMA pictures for this top secret Charger i cant believe no one has photos of it seen about every half naked model at the 2010 car show that wasn't to bad to pass the time still where the damn car !!!! :eek2:
SEMA Day 2:
Autographs at ARMO booth with Vette. 10am - 11:30
Autographs at Legendary Upholstery. 11:30 - 12: 30
Autographs at Classic Industries, 2 - 3pm
Autographs at AMD, 3:30 - 4:30
Private Gearwrench reception 5pm - 7pm
Lose money at Casino 8pm - 10pm
If you're at SEMA, drop by and say hello!
Dan, as has already been said, it has been great to have you on this board. Taking the time to answer questions and be a part of this forum goes along way. I don't know about the others but I have a new appreciation for the show knowing I have had a little personal contact with the host........ Now that I have sucked up to ya, where are the pics of XP-Hemi!
.........oh, and are there any other Mopar CCR segments on the horizon?
Dan would be great if you posted the XP-Hemi as your avatar picture since your a regular on here now. :Twocents:
Quote from: hemi24 on November 03, 2010, 10:40:06 AM
Dan would be great if you posted the XP-Hemi as your avatar picture since your a regular on here now. :Twocents:
or the super van
Detective McQueen here....narck-ing the web.....yet again.
More...
More and More...
Again with the more...
The last of the "acquiring"!! :icon_smile_big:
anyone see hemi torq boxes :shruggy:
I'm still trying to find pieces of the original car. :shruggy: Don't get me wrong the car looks great, but...
Its not a dodge charger its a AMD charger. :lol:
Dan what do you do with the car once you(the show) is done with it? Does speed own it or a person?
Quote from: Tilar on November 03, 2010, 03:27:14 PM
I'm still trying to find pieces of the original car. :shruggy: Don't get me wrong the car looks great, but...
lol, call Dynacorn *chuckle*
hey, at least the vin is original ;)
incredable work though, thats a lot of man hours to assemble that bad boy from scratch.
Wow!!!....that's not a 69 - it's a 2011 !!!
Thanks Dan @ Chop Cut Rebuild
(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/thedodgeboy/ccr%20charger/PassengerIntfloor.jpg)
(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/thedodgeboy/ccr%20charger/LeftRear.jpg)
(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/thedodgeboy/ccr%20charger/IMG_3351.jpg)
wait for it....
:smilielol:
:popcrn:
:drool5: she turned out very nice Dan!
(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/thedodgeboy/ccr%20charger/IMG_20101101_164651.jpg)
:o Those big pictures really show the extent of the surgery that was required. I love that color :2thumbs:
Looks like Cody's car...will be!!!
(+ $$$$$)
:drool5: thats fantastic job !! nice work !! looks awesome , still would of kept the stock K frame though if it were me :Twocents: ;)
nice pictures thanks for posting Guys :cheers: :cheers: :2thumbs: :cheers:
Quote from: moparstuart on November 03, 2010, 03:16:32 PM
anyone see hemi torq boxes :shruggy:
Dan mentioned it had rear ones on it originaly , you can see them in this picture !!
Well... :scratchchin:
I like the color...
Quote from: lexxman on November 03, 2010, 03:53:47 PM
Its not a dodge charger its a AMD charger. :lol:
Dan what do you do with the car once you(the show) is done with it? Does speed own it or a person?
AMD Charger. :lol: I like that! :cheers:.
The car is privately owned. SPEED does not own it.
Dan (and the AMD installation crew),
Great job! Until I saw those pictures of disassembly and reassembly I didn't realize that the car was that baddly rotted. It appears you must have used every single piece of sheetmetal AMD makes. I love the way the car turned out! I doubt that many people would have taken on such a huge challenge. thanks for saving another Charger from the scrapyard!
If I had a '69 Charger that needed all that sheetmetal work, what do you guess it would cost for a.) new AMD sheetmetal and b.) labor at the AMD installation center? Just curious.
By looking at the pictures I am impressed with the shop and the work they put out at the AMD installation center.
who would dare to guess the cost to make the charger look that good all new metal paint and interior with labor i bet its over $100,000. :2thumbs:
A few from moparts... Looks fantastic. :drool5: Great job Dan. I'm sure Shafi will be happy with the outcome.
(http://www.carlisleevents.com/images/events/XP-front.jpg)
(http://www.carlisleevents.com/images/events/XP-side.jpg)
(http://www.carlisleevents.com/images/events/XP-engine.jpg)
(http://www.carlisleevents.com/images/events/XP-interior.jpg)
(http://www.carlisleevents.com/images/events/XP-rear.jpg)
Not to be a nit picker , but I see 2 things that I dont really care for:
1) the Radiator support upper tie bar has the wire holders still in place ,which are for the non-Charger B-body cars.
2) The gold unpainted bolts holding it together. They should be painted boy color as the cars where painted together at the factory.
Awesome job though guys!!! Charger in a box.
Its beautiful!!! just beautiful. It turned out great!! :drool5: :drool5: :2thumbs:
Okay, it had to be done!! A "before and after" comparison.
41 years difference!
My two cents: put the wheelwell chrome back on!
Quote from: hemi24 on November 04, 2010, 08:21:41 AM
who would dare to guess the cost to make the charger look that good all new metal with labor i bet its over $100,000. :2thumbs:
I thought the AMD metal was donated?....that's why they replaced so much???
Quote from: The70RT on November 04, 2010, 09:54:02 AM
Quote from: hemi24 on November 04, 2010, 08:21:41 AM
who would dare to guess the cost to make the charger look that good all new metal with labor i bet its over $100,000. :2thumbs:
I thought the AMD metal was donated?....that's why they replaced so much???
I highlighted the expensive part.
Troy
Quote from: Magnumcharger on November 04, 2010, 08:55:47 AM
Okay, it had to be done!! A "before and after" comparison.
41 years difference!
My two cents: put the wheelwell chrome back on!
Where is the radio antenna?
Quote from: PocketThunder on November 04, 2010, 10:43:07 AM
Where is the radio antenna?
Its a 2011 model!.....probably only has satellite!
Guess they never got the air cleaner Dan was looking for. :shruggy:
Shouldn't the lower part of the inner door (below the door panel) be painted to match the doorpanel color? It appears to be the copper exterior color.
Quote from: 66FBCharger on November 04, 2010, 11:37:24 AM
Shouldn't the lower part of the inner door (below the door panel) be painted to match the doorpanel color? It appears to be the copper exterior color.
These are some of the things I'm learning. I wish I had found this site earlier during the build.
We also have the Antenna. But, it would only be for looks. The SONY audio system runs off a Walkman or Ipod. It can also hook up to a smart phone. The audio system is completely hidden... you'll see how we did that later this year.
Dan,
Just one thing (aside from what has been mentioned already) that popped out at me..... the wiper blades!!!! Why did you use black wiper blades instead of the correct brushed look original Trico ones? Trico makes replacement classic style wiper blades. I think I got mine at Rockauto.com if I remember right.
Quote from: resq302 on November 04, 2010, 12:22:12 PM
Dan,
Just one thing (aside from what has been mentioned already) that popped out at me..... the wiper blades!!!! Why did you use black wiper blades instead of the correct brushed look original Trico ones? Trico makes replacement classic style wiper blades. I think I got mine at Rockauto.com if I remember right.
Napa also has them
Quote from: 66FBCharger on November 04, 2010, 11:37:24 AM
Shouldn't the lower part of the inner door (below the door panel) be painted to match the doorpanel color? It appears to be the copper exterior color.
That is a major Mopar faux pax......Thats usually a GM/Ford restoration shop mistake...
Second only to black underhood and floor pans (and no, I'm not implying this car has that, it quite obviously is correct in those areas).
It needs the antenna as mentioned and models (hey it looks like all the other displays had girls so why not?).
:scratchchin: it's suprising how many second gens. skip that obvious detail,..
:misbehaving:
I think that XP car screams out for stock deep dish hubcaps and wheel well trim... i ain't feelin' the valve covers or air cleaner either..
wouldn't it be sweet if they could find the original model and have her leaning on it!?..
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 04, 2010, 04:50:37 PM
Quote from: 66FBCharger on November 04, 2010, 11:37:24 AM
Shouldn't the lower part of the inner door (below the door panel) be painted to match the doorpanel color? It appears to be the copper exterior color.
That is a major Mopar faux pax......Thats usually a GM/Ford restoration shop mistake...
On most colors with tan interior, the door is painted T3 light bronze metallic on the area about 2 inches behind the door panels up to behind the weather strip. The exceptions I have seen has been on T3/Tan cars where it is one color.
Not sure about all tan interiors, but the factory remnants I have found of the factory carpets is darker.
Quote from: Brock Lee on November 04, 2010, 05:22:32 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 04, 2010, 04:50:37 PM
Quote from: 66FBCharger on November 04, 2010, 11:37:24 AM
Shouldn't the lower part of the inner door (below the door panel) be painted to match the doorpanel color? It appears to be the copper exterior color.
That is a major Mopar faux pax......Thats usually a GM/Ford restoration shop mistake...
On most colors with tan interior, the door is painted T3 light bronze metallic on the area about 2 inches behind the door panels up to behind the weather strip. The exceptions I have seen has been on T3/Tan cars where it is one color.
Not sure about all tan interiors, but the factory remnants I have found of the factory carpets is darker.
Yup... :2thumbs:
None the less its a very cool car ....fresh T5 is always yummy! :drool5:
PS---please tell me the rear bumper isnt fully bolted up in that shot.... :popcrn:
(http://www.carlisleevents.com/images/events/XP-side.jpg)
Quote from: Brock Samson on November 04, 2010, 04:54:54 PM
wouldn't it be sweet if they could find the original model and have her leaning on it!?..
No... ::)
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on November 05, 2010, 06:18:57 AM
Quote from: Brock Samson on November 04, 2010, 04:54:54 PM
wouldn't it be sweet if they could find the original model and have her leaning on it!?..
No... ::)
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: that was funny.
More like maybe they can find that original models daughter and have her leaning on it. ;D Or wait, that model was probably what 20 years old in '68, so that puts here daughter at lets say 20 years old in '88, wait, we better search for the gran-daughter then to find a 22 year old in 2010. Holy crap i'm getting old. :o
Quote from: Magnumcharger on November 03, 2010, 06:25:19 PM
Looks like Cody's car...will be!!!
(+ $$$$$)
:yesnod: I never get tired of seeing that colour! The car looks GREAT! :drool5:
Quote from: Brock Lee on November 04, 2010, 05:22:32 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 04, 2010, 04:50:37 PM
Quote from: 66FBCharger on November 04, 2010, 11:37:24 AM
Shouldn't the lower part of the inner door (below the door panel) be painted to match the doorpanel color? It appears to be the copper exterior color.
That is a major Mopar faux pax......Thats usually a GM/Ford restoration shop mistake...
On most colors with tan interior, the door is painted T3 light bronze metallic on the area about 2 inches behind the door panels up to behind the weather strip. The exceptions I have seen has been on T3/Tan cars where it is one color.
Not sure about all tan interiors, but the factory remnants I have found of the factory carpets is darker.
Your probably right about the paint on the door. Jimenez Brothers don't get a lot of Mopars in their shop and those they have done were not meant to be factory original.
The carpet is the stock replacement carpet from Legendary Interiors. The color of the photo may be a little off.
Dan
Start to finish, how many weeks and or man hours into this project?
Quote from: Brock Samson on November 04, 2010, 04:54:54 PM
wouldn't it be sweet if they could find the original model and have her leaning on it!?..
And take a chance on her scratching the paint with her walker? No way. (http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h177/Wolian/Emotes/smackbottom.gif)
I just watched two back-to-back episodes of Chop Cut Rebuild.
I must say its been pretty great seeing this project come together as well as it did! I certainly would LOVE to have had access to the yellow frame jig when I was restoring MY Charger!
As the credits were rolling, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the font used was "Hemi-head". A neat touch!
Now the question begs to be asked: Where will I be able to see this car in all of it's glory?
As I'm up here in Canada, I'm afraid my work schedule precludes me getting to Los Angeles, and to the SEMA show.
Is there any chance that the XP Hemi Charger might find it's way to Moparfest in New Hamburg Ontario next summer? (Hint-hint)!
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 06, 2010, 07:16:21 AM
Dan
Start to finish, how many weeks and or man hours into this project?
Sydmoe, we started the car in May. There were many things being done simultaneously like grill assembly, engine build, dash restoration, parts re-furbushing, etc. We lost at least 3 weeks waiting for it to transport and the original bodyshop got slammed in late July so nothing much happened to it until the Jimenez Brothers took it over in mid-August. I'd estimate well over a thousand hours. Maybe as much as 1.500 hours went into assembly.
Quote from: Magnumcharger on November 06, 2010, 08:37:28 AMNow the question begs to be asked: Where will I be able to see this car in all of it's glory?
As I'm up here in Canada, I'm afraid my schedule precludes me getting to Los Angeles, and to the SEMA show.
Is there any chance that the XP Hemi Charger might find it's way to Moparfest in New Hamburg Ontario next summer? (Hint-hint)!
That would be up to Shafi Keisler since it's his car but I would bet that since it is meant to a rolling billboard for a number of suppliers not least his own company that it will be well shown this next season at any event where Keisler set up their display.
Only a guess though.
I agree, I'm sure Kiesler and AMD make sure it's at the big events they typically go to. No point sponsoring the car with all those free panels and not get as much promotion as possible outta the project.
Likely it's part of AMD's deal with them that it MUST appear at a minimum number but who knows. For that CCR likely wants a little shout out for their part too (and all the other suppliers).
Hello,
I know if I read the entire thread I would know the answer, but is this the actual charger from the advertisments?
Thank you,
Miller
Not known for certain. My opinion, and that of some others is that it appears there may have been two very similar XP Hemi chargers in 69 and that this car may not be the brochure car but was likely used for other press functions.
Quote from: ccr-host on November 02, 2010, 01:30:49 AM
A little something for my new friends at dc.com
Enjoy! :cheers:
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=72866.0;attach=139552;image)
...wish now, I had gone to SEMA :brickwall:
Nice job getting the car into the new Auto Enthusiast:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,75029.0.html
:2thumbs: :cheers:
Hi All,
Here a few pics from SEMA: (click on thumbnail)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii222/skeisler1968/th_DSC00033.jpg) (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii222/skeisler1968/DSC00033.jpg) "XP HEMI under construction as of Nov 1"
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii222/skeisler1968/th_DSC00057.jpg) (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii222/skeisler1968/DSC00057.jpg) "AMD Booth shows project Road Runner in the background - this car will get built out in 2011"
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii222/skeisler1968/th_DSC00056.jpg) (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii222/skeisler1968/DSC00056.jpg)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii222/skeisler1968/th_DSC00034.jpg) (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii222/skeisler1968/DSC00034.jpg)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii222/skeisler1968/th_DSC00032.jpg) (http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii222/skeisler1968/DSC00032.jpg) "Keisler new product - not a Tremec"
Are you going to tell us more about the "new product"?
Quote from: Ghoste on November 06, 2010, 06:12:39 PM
Are you going to tell us more about the "new product"?
:scratchchin: 6 speed manual trans :shruggy: :popcrn:??????? :scratchchin: :popcrn:
Great reading through this thread. A little bit more about the XP HEMI Charger from Shafi Keisler (me).
1) '68 parts were indeed on the car: door handles from the original door, inner headlamp bezel, fuel filler cap (smooth, not raised)
2) rebody vs reskinned vs whatever - the only way I could see XP Hemi Charger keeping its original body would be to dip the body to expose clean metal, then plasma spray metal over the entire car. Problem is, the base metal was likely too thin for this spray plasma metal process, and I think the spray metal would have blown through, and certainly warping would be an issue. The original door was salvageable and we still have it, as we do the other original parts. The pass side original door is still on another 69 Charger where it was installed back in the 80s (at the barn find scene, where XP laid at the spot the blue '69 Charger SE car sits). Galen and I looked at it, and it's in beautiful shape, as was most of XP Hemi back in the early 80s. Because the pass side door was missing, the car decayed badly and we are lucky to have anything left. The pictures shown from my garage (where wood is stacked), show the torque boxes rotted out. The rear frame rails were rotted out. In fact, I put a piece of 2x6 board between the frame rail and the trunk pan. You may have seen Dan pull it out and say, "this was not factory, definitely aftermarket." The front frame rails looked decent when I cut the rotten floor away to expose them. The front frame rails, along with firewall, front lower a-pillars and some other pieces are original; certainly more than I thought was salvageable. The radiator yoke I thought was salvageable, but it was tweaked from a light front end collision, along with other rust problems as the pictures show, and was ultimately removed and replaced at the end of the build at the Craig Hopkins AMD Installation Center. The trunk rail had to be junk, but I can't remember. Even if it could have been cut out as a whole, and grafted back in, I don't think it would change the fact that the surrounding metal was in poor shape. Whether you bring the trunk rail lip to the body, or vice versa, it is the same thing really. At the end of the day, the right decisions were made on the whole to bring back XP Hemi. Plus there are original parts still intact as mentioned; not only the body but a number of other parts including glass, regulators, and various odds and ends. We did salvage the headlamp actuators among other things, and the grille support structure was actually blasted and powercoated (but not used as AMD's piece was far nicer). For the sake of time and cost, it was not practical to restore every used part, but the usable stuff including the original drivers door was kept for another day perhaps. We also saved the tail panel section that Dan shows during the forensic segment of episode 3.
3) originality - we varied from the 100% OE original restoration for several reasons. For those of you that think it was the wrong move, it wasn't your decision to make and I will have to say that it wasn't possible - for me, the show, the sponsors. A 100% NOS restoration would have cost several hundred thousand dollars and many years to undertake. And it still would not be the original car. There are many many fine 100 point OE correct restoration examples of original cars, plus survivors. IF the original drivetrain was intact, then I would have considered selling the car to a collector, but that was not original in the car either (it was a 440 warranty block, 727, and 8-3/4 in it). In fact I did NOT offer XP HEMI for sale to the public. I did offer it to several of the potential sponsors of the CCR project. For financial reasons of the large undertaking to bring XP HEMI back to life, none of those folks could participate. So it stayed with Keisler Engineering, and together with the incredible support of Chop Cut Rebuild, AMD, Craig Hopkins AMD Installation Center, Ray Barton, RMS Suspension, Legendary Interiors, House of Color, Ted Stephens & Dave/ Stephens Performance, Hot Rod Speed and Custom, Curry Rear Ends, Restorations by Julius, Ted's Rod shop and many more, we did it (or we are at lease close as of Nov 6 – still need to complete the build before Nov 20). The changes throughout the build are bolt on, and showcase the excellent capabilities of the sponsors. Take notice to the T5 Copper Metallic by House of Kolor – it really pops! Look at Legendary Interior's special pleating of the seats that ties into the Pearl White vinyl top, their brand new Charger upper door pads (just superb!) and the awesome floor raised logo XP HEMI Charger floor mats. The RMS Suspension AlterKation and Lynks takes handling, ride control and braking to a new level combined with the Currie Dana60 and Wilwood 6piston brakes. Rushforth's wheels and BFG tread are +3 inches larger rim diameter, yet maintain pace with a modern touch on a classic. Plus, although I had a set of 69 Charger original hubcaps, there was no way to make that work easily or guarantee to come off looking decent.
Construction of the XP HEMI Charger also showcases several new technologies/processes/product to market:
First and foremost is AMD's incredible new tooling coupled with Craig Hopkins Installation Center engineered fixture and OE build process. I have NEVER seen better sheet metal. And I have NEVER seen a better process to put the sheet metal together. These two companies, hand-in-hand bring us Mopar fans something we have never had before –affordable, complete and correct sheet metal, and fixed price installation costs. Get this, if you have a Charger in similar terrible basket case 5- condition as XP HEMI started out, you can have Craig Hopkins Installation Center provide you a turnkey reconstruction job – prospot welded and all – for around $18,500 plus the cost of any few pieces of donor car metal needed that AMD doesn't have –YET; most everything else (about a dozen or so parts) are being tooled up.
Consider this .... You can go buy a title condition '68-7-0 Charger hulk from Ted Stephens / Stephens Performance, a salvage yards or private owners. Then send that to C Hopkins Installation Center along with about $19K and you will have a complete beautiful body to work from – with doors hung, hood and decklid hung, window regulators, complete glass kit – all of the critical stuff. And let me tell you – I have been involved in most of the new body shell muscle cars to hit the market – from '69 Camaro, '67 Mustang, etc – and none of them are as nice quality as this AMD/Hopkins reconstruction. For Mopar restorers, this is HUGE. And they can do Cudas, Challengers, Road Runners and many more (plus a lot of Chevys, Pontiac, Olds, Buick muscle cars).
Second, RMS Suspension provided their new LYNKS 4-link rear suspension. And us Mopar guys and gals get more advanced ways to tune our suspension.
Third, XP HEMI gets an all new transmission offering from Keisler. Something we have been working hard towards to reduce the tunnel mods compared to our Tremec kits. The only modification to the tunnel was the small hole required to pass the shifter. I am planning for this new Keisler offering to replace our Tremec offerings for Mopar next year. The advancements are major. More to come later ...
ENJOY
congrats :cheers: you have a beautiful car. im loving the show on it. thanks for sharing it :2thumbs: jim
Great thread, where have I been?
Shafi great job on the car & its good to hear that there still needs to be some tweaking done to it.
Just noticed the pleating on the seats....nice touch & thanks for the larger pics.
Car has come a long way since that original email you sent me back in February of '09 :cheers:
Quote from: ccr-host on November 01, 2010, 08:43:53 PM
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on October 31, 2010, 10:17:19 PM
California VIN laws at http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/VINfraud/VINfraudCA.shtml
Awsome link! Thanks Alaskan.
My pleasure.
I assume you read that, so do you honestly feel you are in compliance? I do not know for sure, but I heard the numbers were swapped to the new sheetmetal in California. Is this true?
QuoteMy pleasure.
I assume you read that, so do you honestly feel you are in compliance? I do not know for sure, but I heard the numbers were swapped to the new sheetmetal in California. Is this true?
Alaskan T/A,
What's the point to your inquiry? If you have something useful to contribute, please do so.
I am pretty sure that swapping body numbers is illegal, so I am asking.
Can you prove that swapping the body numbers was legal? :shruggy:
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on November 06, 2010, 10:07:34 PM
I am pretty sure that swapping body numbers is illegal, so I am asking.
Can you prove that swapping the body numbers was legal? :shruggy:
I am pretty sure that you are stirring up trouble, and I don't have to prove anything to you. If you are so concerned about it, you can go spend money on a lawyer to research it on your own time. Geez ...
Being a high profile rebody though (or at least one done in a televised format) you have to appreciate the implications within the hobby. There are the Dynacorn shells on the possible horizon for Mopars and now with the huge and badly needed array of panels from AMD, rebodying becomes a huge concern. As you are well aware the huge price hike in Mopars during the last musclecar boom made ironclad numbers and undeniable provenance a big deal as the cars became investments. Fortunately for us, Mopars were a little harder to fake and easier to decode than many Fords and most GM musclecars. It would look as though some of these advantages may soon disappear.
Now before you get too upset with my position Shafi, you need to know that I have openly raised the question of whether or not a car that (I think) is historically significant should be exempt from some of this rebody disdain. I have always been outspoken about VIN swapping but I have also found the saga of the XP Hemi to be more than a little exciting.
Quote from: KEISLER on November 06, 2010, 10:53:44 PM
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on November 06, 2010, 10:07:34 PM
I am pretty sure that swapping body numbers is illegal, so I am asking.
Can you prove that swapping the body numbers was legal? :shruggy:
I am pretty sure that you are stirring up trouble, and I don't have to prove anything to you. If you are so concerned about it, you can go spend money on a lawyer to research it on your own time. Geez ...
Well, if it was illegal, then any trouble is not mine since I was not involved with the alleged swap.
I do try to keep folks out of trouble when I can though.
A lot of folks seem to be assuming that the situation with moving the old numbers on this car to new sheet metal is / was legal since it was apparently shown on TV.
I do not have cable or watch TV, so I have not seen it myself.
If it is illegal, then the folks here need to know.
If it is legal, then we all need to know that too.
Can you show in any way that swapping the old body numbers to new sheet metal was legal? Was it done in CA?
I am just asking for some clarification, that is all. If it was done in CA, then I do not see how it could be legal based on CA law, but I know state laws vary at times & I am not a lawyer.
The issue of legitimacy is an important one. I have heard that a number of "matching numbers" cars are being faked by greedy bastards looking to prey on honest folks. But the issue of misrepresentation which IS illegal is not the point in question here. XP HEMI has been restored with a lot of new materials, some of which is the sheetmetal. To the best of my understanding, there is nothing illegal about replacing the numbers to the car to maintain its VIN tracability. Nor, would there be anything illegal to stamp the VIN number on the block, trans, diff, each door, trunk lid, hood, etch it in the glass, etc, etc. This is a matter of protecting one's assets.
BUT, it is a completely different matter when someone knowingly MISREPRESENTS what they are selling. Whether it is a fake Rolex watch, or a non-numbers matching 1 of 227 1969 Dodge Charger 426 hemi 4-speed car.
I recommend the topic of "what is and what shouldn't be" be continued over to the hamtramack vin blog or whereever it can be analyzed to the nats ass detail by those that care to dwell in it, and let those of us that wish to discuss the XP HEMI CHARGER and the accomplishments by the men and women who have sweated over it for the past 7 months be seen, in all its glory and detail.
Quote from: KEISLER on November 06, 2010, 11:36:16 PM
The issue of legitimacy is an important one. I have heard that a number of "matching numbers" cars are being faked by greedy bastards looking to prey on honest folks. But the issue of misrepresentation which IS illegal is not the point in question here. XP HEMI has been restored with a lot of new materials, some of which is the sheetmetal. To the best of my understanding, there is nothing illegal about replacing the numbers to the car to maintain its VIN tracability. Nor, would there be anything illegal to stamp the VIN number on the block, trans, diff, each door, trunk lid, hood, etch it in the glass, etc, etc. This is a matter of protecting one's assets.
BUT, it is a completely different matter when someone knowingly MISREPRESENTS what they are selling. Whether it is a fake Rolex watch, or a non-numbers matching 1 of 227 1969 Dodge Charger 426 hemi 4-speed car.
I recommend the topic of "what is and what shouldn't be" be continued over to the hamtramack vin blog or whereever it can be analyzed to the nats ass detail by those that care to dwell in it, and let those of us that wish to discuss the XP HEMI CHARGER and the accomplishments by the men and women who have sweated over it for the past 7 months be seen, in all its glory and detail.
One point, with this quote;
QuoteBut the issue of misrepresentation which IS illegal is not the point in question here.
Why move the body numbers unless someone wanted to misrepresent them to appear as original panels?
If it is / was illegal, then the only accomplishment was documenting the evidence via television for someone in law enforcement to persue. That would be pretty funny actually.
If it was legal, I would love to see the law that allows it, or a legal opinion from a judge or LEO that says it is OK. :shruggy:
XP HEMI VIDEO CLIP from SEMA
I will put a couple more up later...
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii222/skeisler1968/th_00007.jpg) (http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii222/skeisler1968/?action=view¤t=00007.mp4)
It isn't illegal to restamp a block? If it isn't illegal it sure as hell is unethica! Why would you even suggest that it's okay to do something like that? As for wanting the discussion to continue somewhere else, the unfortunate fact is that the car raises the question and it begs discussion and well, this is a discussion forum. No one is denying the hard work by everyone to prepare the car and it looks great just as several people have told you. But it is a Charger and if you check around this site you will quickly discover that we are passionate about that topic even when it means discussing the warts that certain Chargers may or may not have. Just because you may not care about the VIN details doesn't mean there may not be several of us here that do.
Ghoste, just to take this quote a little further;
QuoteNor, would there be anything illegal to stamp the VIN number on the block, trans, diff, each door, trunk lid, hood, etch it in the glass, etc, etc. This is a matter of protecting one's assets.
This has some truth to it. I know that Arizona as one example has a program in place where folks in law enforcement will add VINs to cars to aid in theft prevention / recovery. Etching glass is one example, marking
original body parts is another.
Stamping a block with new numbers is not something they would ever do. :Twocents:
Quote from: Ghoste on November 06, 2010, 11:58:19 PM
It isn't illegal to restamp a block? If it isn't illegal it sure as hell is unethica! Why would you even suggest that it's okay to do something like that? As for wanting the discussion to continue somewhere else, the unfortunate fact is that the car raises the question and it begs discussion and well, this is a discussion forum. No one is denying the hard work by everyone to prepare the car and it looks great just as several people have told you. But it is a Charger and if you check around this site you will quickly discover that we are passionate about that topic even when it means discussing the warts that certain Chargers may or may not have. Just because you may not care about the VIN details doesn't mean there may not be several of us here that do.
Unethical? I don't think so. What is unethical is trying to replicate the VIN number in any fashion AND passing it off as ORIGINAL. THAT is unethical. There is nothing wrong about placing the serial number of the car onto any and all parts of value that could be stolen and traded. This IS common practice to protect one's assets, and allows law enforcement to track down stolen goods and hopefully bring the crooks to justice.
Replacing the radiator yoke and trunk rail numbers back to the repaired body would allow law enforcement to help track down the car in case it was stolen because these numbers are the officially recorded places on the body where the VIN can be associated for identification purposes.
As for the appropriate place to hold a lengthy discussion, or sub thread on VIN numbers et al, I don't see it being this thread. I am not saying it doesn't have a place, and I AM interested in the subject, as I've owned many '68-70 Charger R/T cars, among other Mopar muscle cars. I believe it IS a worthy subject of much consideration ... just NOT here.
:icon_bs: :icon_bs: :icon_bs: :icon_bs: :icon_bs:
If you have no intention of passing it off as original then why not leave it unstamped? Come on Shafi, tell me one reason for restamping a block that has nothing to do with deceiving someone. I can't believe you would even suggest that.
If you told me that you endorse the idea of stamping the VIN on the engine in somewher other than the factory location in something other than the factory font with some other message as well like "this non original engine belongs to vehicle XXXXXXX. then I could buy it. Your statement was simply that it's okay to restamp blocks and I think you meant it the way I took it. If you truly din't I apologize but right now I'm unconvinced.
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on November 07, 2010, 12:09:21 AM
Ghoste, just to take this quote a little further;
Stamping a block with new numbers is not something they would ever do. :Twocents:
That's your opinion, and you know what they say ... Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.
A warranty block had an unmachined area for the VIN number to be stamped. So here's my opinion - the factory left this area unstamped so the dealership or owner could place identification. An engine is expensive, and stealing one is grand theft.
Quote from: KEISLER on November 07, 2010, 12:19:27 AM
As for the appropriate place to hold a lengthy discussion, or sub thread on VIN numbers et al, I don't see it being this thread. I am not saying it doesn't have a place, and I AM interested in the subject, as I've owned many '68-70 Charger R/T cars, among other Mopar muscle cars. I believe it IS a worthy subject of much consideration ... just NOT here.
Why not?
The car evidently / allegedly had it's original body numbers swapped on national TV. The car, the show & the numbers in question have been discussed in this thread, so why talk about it anywhere else?
Are you scared of what might happen? Seizure? Confiscation of the numbers? Cancelation of the title? Cancelation of insurance? Loss of sponsorship? Something else maybe?
I do not feel it can be swept under the rug myself. If there is a legal precedent, then we
need to know.
Did the factory leave it blank to be restamped or did they leave it blank because they had no real way of knowing what car it was going into and they didn't want to be party to an illegal activity? Even if they did leave it blank to be restamped, do you still think it's right to restamp in order to make it a "numbers matching" engine? You know very well that has nothing to do with reducing grand theft and everything to do with artificially inflating the value of a vehicle. Hey wait a minute, that's kind of like theft isn't it? Oh the irony.
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 12:24:18 AM
:icon_bs: :icon_bs: :icon_bs: :icon_bs: :icon_bs:
If you have no intention of passing it off as original then why not leave it unstamped? Come on Shafi, tell me one reason for restamping a block that has nothing to do with deceiving someone. I can't believe you would even suggest that.
Ghost,
BS? Come on man get real ... the reason is simple, an engine is expensive. Thieves steal engines. Putting the vehicle's ID - OR SOME FORM OF ID - on the block ties it back to the vehicle. IF the engine were already stamped with a VIN, then the owner should simply document THAT number with the insurance and law enforcement agency.
And do you REALLY think that NOT putting a VIN number on the block is going to prevent a crook from passing off a fake? Buyer beware - hire a professional appraiser like Galen Govier to inspect a car before buying it, UNLESS you are OK with it not being what you think. I hired Galen as soon as I got XP HEMI to make sure it was legitimate. There are many capable and reputable specialists in the Mopar restoration hobby that can inspect a car for authenticity. Then there are the gurus like Julius, Baldasen (sic) and others that can pic a car apart to the fine details.
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 12:45:53 AM
Did the factory leave it blank to be restamped or did they leave it blank because they had no real way of knowing what car it was going into and they didn't want to be party to an illegal activity? Even if they did leave it blank to be restamped, do you still think it's right to restamp in order to make it a "numbers matching" engine? You know very well that has nothing to do with reducing grand theft and everything to do with artificially inflating the value of a vehicle. Hey wait a minute, that's kind of like theft isn't it? Oh the irony.
Ghoste - your posts are getting downright ridiculous. I did not say anything about making an engine "numbers matching" so don't put words in my mouth. If you want to engage in a credible topic, you need to conduct yourself with credibility. Same for your friend. G'night.
First off, you should know that verifying numbers on collector cars is part of my job. I get upset about it because in the course of a year I see so many outright fake cars or just phony provenance that I am sick to death of it. I don't need Galen but its interesting to me that whenever i find myself in one of these debates, inevitably the person who advocates trying to legitimize something like this will play the buyer beware card and the need to hire a "Galen". I realize the trade in stolen collector car engines is an enormous problem but again of interest, you didn't find my suggestion of making the restamped numbers unquestionably not factory. If your only reason for restamping a block is to protect yourself from engine theft, why not?
Lastly, I at no time ever suggested in any way that not stamping a block was a way to prevent passing a fake. My assertion all along has been that restamping a block IS a fake.
Quote from: KEISLER on November 07, 2010, 12:57:00 AM
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 12:45:53 AM
Did the factory leave it blank to be restamped or did they leave it blank because they had no real way of knowing what car it was going into and they didn't want to be party to an illegal activity? Even if they did leave it blank to be restamped, do you still think it's right to restamp in order to make it a "numbers matching" engine? You know very well that has nothing to do with reducing grand theft and everything to do with artificially inflating the value of a vehicle. Hey wait a minute, that's kind of like theft isn't it? Oh the irony.
Ghoste - your posts are getting downright ridiculous. I did not say anything about making an engine "numbers matching" so don't put words in my mouth. If you want to engage in a credible topic, you need to conduct yourself with credibility. Same for your friend. G'night.
Then what are you saying? You are arguing that it is okay to restamp a block and I am questioning your motives. I told you a few posts up that I didn't buy your position that you endorsed strictly as a theft prevention method and you haven't changed my mind. If you don't endorse it as a way to create a numbers matching engine then I applaud you.
You stated that the factory left it blank because they intended it to be restamped with the cars VIN. I've never seen a document indicating that was the reason it was blank so I asked the question. I asked because I don't know. The sentence following my question was not an accusation but another question because even if you truly are only an advocate of restamping blocks to prevent engine thefts, you are not so naive as to be unaware of the huge number of people restampng blocks today to create numbers matching engines. You say so yourself. As for my posts being downright ridiculous, well it's funny but I kind of thought the same thing about yours. And my credibilty, well I'm not the one who is promoting the idea of restamping numbers am I?
It would be cool if someone in the NICB or FBI would chime in here.
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on November 07, 2010, 12:37:51 AM
Quote from: KEISLER on November 07, 2010, 12:19:27 AM
As for the appropriate place to hold a lengthy discussion, or sub thread on VIN numbers et al, I don't see it being this thread. I am not saying it doesn't have a place, and I AM interested in the subject, as I've owned many '68-70 Charger R/T cars, among other Mopar muscle cars. I believe it IS a worthy subject of much consideration ... just NOT here.
Why not?
The car evidently / allegedly had it's original body numbers swapped on national TV. The car, the show & the numbers in question have been discussed in this thread, so why talk about it anywhere else?
Are you scared of what might happen? Seizure? Confiscation of the numbers? Cancelation of the title? Cancelation of insurance? Loss of sponsorship? Something else maybe?
I do not feel it can be swept under the rug myself. If there is a legal precedent, then we need to know.
Wow, the nights must be getting long in Alaska if this is a subject of such serious debate. This seems like nothing more than picking fly dung out of the pepper!
I think what needs to be considered in this situation is the difference between "transferring" and "swapping". There is no second vehicle involved here. As it pertains to law, every law I have seen (including those forwarded by Alaskan TA) states a phrase to the effect of "to deceive" or "intentionally mislead". I stated earlier on this blog, that if there was ANY attempt to deceive or mislead, then showing it on national television would be pretty dumb!
There was NO transfer of a VIN. There was NO re-stamping. The numbers were transferred with a portion of the rain gutter and radiator support. I can't think of anything more to tell you or Ghoste. Can we put this to bed now?
Dan, my current argument is about restamping blocks not VIN swapping. But if you are about to tell me its okay too then I will happily debate it with you too. Not ready for bed I guess.
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 01:14:09 AM
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on November 07, 2010, 12:37:51 AM
Quote from: KEISLER on November 07, 2010, 12:19:27 AM
As for the appropriate place to hold a lengthy discussion, or sub thread on VIN numbers et al, I don't see it being this thread. I am not saying it doesn't have a place, and I AM interested in the subject, as I've owned many '68-70 Charger R/T cars, among other Mopar muscle cars. I believe it IS a worthy subject of much consideration ... just NOT here.
Why not?
The car evidently / allegedly had it's original body numbers swapped on national TV. The car, the show & the numbers in question have been discussed in this thread, so why talk about it anywhere else?
Are you scared of what might happen? Seizure? Confiscation of the numbers? Cancelation of the title? Cancelation of insurance? Loss of sponsorship? Something else maybe?
I do not feel it can be swept under the rug myself. If there is a legal precedent, then we need to know.
Wow, the nights must be getting long in Alaska if this is a subject of such serious debate. This seems like nothing more than picking fly dung out of the pepper!
I think what needs to be considered in this situation is the difference between "transferring" and "swapping". There is no second vehicle involved here. As it pertains to law, every law I have seen (including those forwarded by Alaskan TA) states a phrase to the effect of "to deceive" or "intentionally mislead". I stated earlier on this blog, that if there was ANY attempt to deceive or mislead, then showing it on national television would be pretty dumb!
There was NO transfer of a VIN. There was NO re-stamping. The numbers were transferred with a portion of the rain gutter and radiator support. I can't think of anything more to tell you or Ghoste. Can we put this to bed now?
I see a contradiction;
QuoteThere was NO transfer of a VIN.
QuoteThe numbers were transferred
So, were they or were they not transferred?
If they were, is there a state law in the state it took place that allows it?
If so, can you show it to us or provide documentation?
To me, cutting VINs out of sheet metal & transferring them to new sheet metal is VIN tampering. If you, or the owner, or anyone else can come up with a law that says otherwise, I would love to see it. Pretty please? :shruggy:
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on November 07, 2010, 01:23:57 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 01:14:09 AM
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on November 07, 2010, 12:37:51 AM
Quote from: KEISLER on November 07, 2010, 12:19:27 AM
As for the appropriate place to hold a lengthy discussion, or sub thread on VIN numbers et al, I don't see it being this thread. I am not saying it doesn't have a place, and I AM interested in the subject, as I've owned many '68-70 Charger R/T cars, among other Mopar muscle cars. I believe it IS a worthy subject of much consideration ... just NOT here.
Why not?
The car evidently / allegedly had it's original body numbers swapped on national TV. The car, the show & the numbers in question have been discussed in this thread, so why talk about it anywhere else?
Are you scared of what might happen? Seizure? Confiscation of the numbers? Cancelation of the title? Cancelation of insurance? Loss of sponsorship? Something else maybe?
I do not feel it can be swept under the rug myself. If there is a legal precedent, then we need to know.
Wow, the nights must be getting long in Alaska if this is a subject of such serious debate. This seems like nothing more than picking fly dung out of the pepper!
I think what needs to be considered in this situation is the difference between "transferring" and "swapping". There is no second vehicle involved here. As it pertains to law, every law I have seen (including those forwarded by Alaskan TA) states a phrase to the effect of "to deceive" or "intentionally mislead". I stated earlier on this blog, that if there was ANY attempt to deceive or mislead, then showing it on national television would be pretty dumb!
There was NO transfer of a VIN. There was NO re-stamping. The numbers were transferred with a portion of the rain gutter and radiator support. I can't think of anything more to tell you or Ghoste. Can we put this to bed now?
I see a contradiction;
QuoteThere was NO transfer of a VIN.
QuoteThe numbers were transferred
So, were they or were they not transferred?
If they were, is there a state law in the state it took place that allows it?
If so, can you show it to us or provide documentation?
To me, cutting VINs out of sheet metal & transferring them to new sheet metal is VIN tampering. If you, or the owner, or anyone else can come up with a law that says otherwise, I would love to see it. Pretty please? :shruggy:
Alakan,
You answered your own question. You are confusing a VIN with ID numbers found on the radiator support and trunk gutter. The ID numbers on those areas are PARTIAL numbers – NOT the VIN. They do not have to be on a car. They are for identification purposes ONLY. They are not installed with manufacturer's rivets, which are illegal for the public to possess (Ten thousand dollar fine in CA). The numbers on the metal are ID numbers and as we were not transferring them from one car to another, but rather from an old part to a new part on the same car, there is no intent to deceive or mislead anyone. Those numbers do not make the car a matching numbers car. They do not increase the value... all they seem to do is give someone sitting up north with nothing to do, something to agonize over.
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 01:51:16 AM
... there is no intent to deceive or mislead anyone. Those numbers do not make the car a matching numbers car. They do not increase the value... all they seem to do is give someone sitting up north with nothing to do, something to agonize over.
Then why bother doing it?
so beautiful :drool5:
So Mr Keisler,
It seems this question has been overlooked so far.
How does your new car drive?
Wow, i gotta stop going to bed so early! I haven't seen this much arguing and debating this late at night since before my divorce!
I see both sides to this. I think this particular case is on that edge of the the law between right and wrong and depending on where you stand you can make a strong case for either position.
From where I stand I see it as has been stated by Dan earlier, the law is there to prevent fraud, misrepresentation and or deception that the car is something that it is not to any future buyer. The extent of repair on this particular car has been heavily documented and I think any future buyer will have plenty of information on what they are getting. In this instance, moving the stampings was not done with the intent to mislead or deceive but rather as part of the "restoration" to bring the body of the car back to the way it left the factory. If these numbers were stamped on the firewall, which was not replaced, we would not be having this conversation. The fact that the damage on the car required panel repair or replacement in areas with these numbers should be taken into consideration as a necessary part of the restoration and not some "evil plan" to commit fraud. In my opinion, the factory correct stampings were transferred to the new replacement part on the car with no intent to misrepresent it as a different vehicle. If this car is considered to be legal for title then why shouldn't it be allowed to have proper body markings?
Don't get me wrong, I think they did an outstanding job of putting a new car together from scratch using new iron and a few old parts. It's a beautiful car. Fact is the only thing they are putting back on the road that came from the factory are a few parts that you can buy on ebay, and the numbers. So in essense it all revolves around the numbers.
Do I think they put the numbers on it with the intent to defraud anyone? Absolutely not, but on the same note I don't feel "intent" is relevant in this.
I agree with it' s a shame it was a t.v car that so many panels were replaced that could of been repaired. Now the car is mostly new metal and Lot's of the originality is gone and cannot be replaced as the comment was made about bolt on's.
What would be neat would be a 3D computer model that showed what sections and parts were from the original car and what is now from China with the exact % number.
Beautiful car it is, but that comment goes to Dodge. Anyone with money can make something shiny and new.
That was ( most believe ) a one only car of what most believe is one of the most beautiful cars every made and I just feel it deserved to be restored slowly with love and with all the intentions to keep as many of the original parts from 1969 as possible.
Now when most people think of it, they will have a memory of all the parts and panels that are not from the original car and that number is really really high. A shame. :'(
:patriot:
I can see this car going to a collector and not doing any street time its to sweet.
Maybe they should have fired up the shredder and turned it into pop cans.
Car looks fantastic.Nice job on the resto.
Maybe. I am openly critical of rebodies but I have been asking the question on this particular car all along if it's rarity didn't warrant an exception in my thinking. But I have been starting to revisit it.
no matter how you look at it....Its parts to fix a car! Even in a "rebody" situation...parts to fix a car.
As far as the numbers being transfered....big deal. They stay with the car this way. Not in an envelope,but in the place where they belong .
I think the whole issue of "rebody" is blown way out of proportion anyway.. :brickwall: Its parts to fix a car and as long as you are up front about the repairs then so be it.
Did Bzabodyn catch this much hell when he did his 1969 hemi charger total rebuild ?
Another perspective from the Corvette World:http://ncrsnm.com/pdf/NCRS_2010_JudgingJudgesAdvisory.pdf
:popcrn:
QuoteNCRS Judging –Judges' Advisory
DEFINITIONS OF COUNTERFEIT vs. RESTORATION
NCRS does not consider the restoration or replacement of components as counterfeit as long as the intent is to restore the car to its former or original state as it left the factory.
To make this perfectly clear read the following definitions from Webster's Dictionary and the accompanying examples.
RESTORE: "To renew; to put back into existence or bring back to a former or original state." For instance, the following examples represent restorations and are not considered counterfeiting:
4
revised 5-27-10
• • •
Repainting an original black Corvette with black lacquer paint Installing accurately reproduced black vinyl seat covers in a car that left the factory with a standard black interior Stamping a 435-HP block to conform to the date/serial number of the original 435-HP Corvette in which it is to be installed
COUNTERFEIT: "To make an imitation of something else with the intent to deceive or defraud For instance, the following would be examples of counterfeiting:
• Repainting an original blue car red and changing the trim tag to make red appear to be the original color • Installing a red interior in a car that left the factory with a blue interior and changing the trim tag to make red
appear to be the original color interior • Replacing the engine of an original small block Corvette with a big block and stamping numbers on it to make it
appear to be an original big block engine • Replacing the carburetor on an engine with a fuel-injection unit and stamping the numbers and suffix code on the
block to make it appear to be an original fuel-injection car
Quote from: hemi24 on November 07, 2010, 10:13:28 AM
Did Bzabodyn catch this much hell when he did his 1969 hemi charger total rebuild ?
Yep, pretty much. Although he was
planning to use another cars original sheet metal instead of donated parts from AMD.
Barry, all the metal work was done in Georgia.
I believe "rebody" is the wrong term since that generally applies to finding a nice original shell and swapping the numbers from the rarer (or titled in some cases) car. About 98% of this car seems to be new metal. I can't tell if there's more left from the original car or the "donor". Either way, I'd assume it still falls under the category of replacement parts. I do not technically agree with stamping or transferring stamped panels because the only reason to do it is because someone, some day will be looking for them to verify the car. This car is being done in the open in (mostly) full view of the public so any future buyer should know exactly what they are getting. Sadly, this is not the case for many, many other "questionable" cars and I believe this sets a bad example for people who may see it as validation for what they do. On the other hand, it does show that nothing is "too far gone" if you have the money and resources to see it through.
There is an article in the latest Auto Enthusiast magazine that covers the legal issues for full body shells from Dynacorn which may answer some questions.
I have some of the videos by Craig Hopkins (C. Hopkins Rod & Custom, theinstallationcenter.com, howtoasap.com) who did the metal work. In them he teaches how to do partial panel replacement but it is my understanding that he prefers to replace whole panels when available. This may explain why "good" sections of the car were tossed in favor of new metal. Plus, with the way the cars are built on the jig I would imagine that it's better to fit a single, stamped piece than to weld one across the middle and try to make it match. It's certainly less labor intensive to spot weld all new panels than to cut/weld/grind/hammer/fill patches. Some will say it's stronger as well. There will always be a technology/process gap between how a professional shop does a job and the hobbyist. However, I am amazed at some of the rusty piles that are "saved" by some people in their back yards. Not every can pull it off though.
Troy
Quote from: 1HotDaytona on November 07, 2010, 09:17:59 AM
no matter how you look at it....Its parts to fix a car! Even in a "rebody" situation...parts to fix a car.
As far as the numbers being transfered....big deal. They stay with the car this way. Not in an envelope,but in the place where they belong .
I think the whole issue of "rebody" is blown way out of proportion anyway.. :brickwall: Its parts to fix a car and as long as you are up front about the repairs then so be it.
Yes Brian, but if Jay Leno had this car he would of taken the time to make sure as much of the original car was preserved. As he does with his other classics's. This was/is a real rare and special car and the only reason
such a large portion was replaced was because of time and money due to the show. This car deserved better.
What about the originaL doors with the Hemi badge holes? That would of been well worth the work to save them.
This subject along with the Vin will never have a unanimous agreement.
Maybe we are trying to slay the wrong dragon here. Back when the cars were worthless, we just didn't care about this kind of stuff, now that they have become "investments" worth as much or more than many homes the game has changed. Perhaps the bulk of anger should be directed to the fools who were willing to pay any amount of money no matter how much it took because they had to own the 340 Duster that looks just like the one they drooled over in high school?
There are a couple of considerations about the XP Hemi which I believe are being overlooked or intentionally disregarded by a few members here who simply want to "gin up" this non-issue. I suggest you take their comments with a grain of salt.
First consider what percentage of this car is using "factory licensed" replacement parts – not LKQ, CAPA or imitation parts. AMD licenses a great deal of Chrysler authorized and inspected parts. Chrysler also makes a profit from the sale of these parts! They are sold to the public, as being authentic and meeting the 1969 standards. No modern process is applied such as; double dipped zinc coating, or modern metal thickness, in an effort to keep them authentic to Chrysler's original standards.
Secondly, I take exception to calling this a "re-body" or replacement body. This was, and is a RESTORATION. We did not turn a second car into the XP Hemi. A more appropriate term may be "re-skinned" or "rebuilt" – not "re-bodied", for the simple reason an entirely new body was not used. A number of posters are comparing it to a Dynacorn body shell, which is not correct and not fair. I have built three Dynacorn shells and I can assure you, this is not in the same situation. This car has components in it which rolled down the Chrysler assembly line – including the most important part as deemed by law: the entire firewall dash with the factory installed VIN plate. In addition, front rails, A – pillar, roof substructure components have all been retained. A Dynacorn body does not have a single component that came from Detroit or from the period the car represents and they certainly do not contain a manufacturers VIN tag!
Third, the partial ID numbers from the original car were part of an original section of sheet metal that did not require replacement. The section was not damaged and was saved. There are some here who are insistent that there wasn't enough effort made to save original panels or sections of the original car because we were showcasing sponsors products. If we had saved the original driver's door, as some are insistent could have been done, and the door contained an ID number or plaque, would they also insist that it should not have been installed? I doubt it. Yet, saving it would have required extensive metal replacement or a patch panel made of NEW metal. Whose standards do we need to meet before what was done is acceptable: a couple of members of the MOPAR community? Or the law? To the very best of my knowledge, there is no law which states numbers other than the VIN cannot be saved and retained and grafted onto a new part. We treated the new trunk rain gutter piece and the top radiator support as a patch panel, rather than replacing the entire part, we left the section with the ID number on the original car. NOTHING was re-stamped. Those numbers came with this car ...and they are still with this car!
Fourth, the work performed on this car was done in the open light of day. Not in some back barn out of view from the public. The XP Hemi will also be known from this point forward as the car restored on Chop Cut Rebuild. Its restoration process will have been seen by millions of people around the world. We have been and continue to be straight forward with what happened to the car and the details are evident to anyone who cares to watch the series. The idea that it could possibly have been done to deceive the next buyer is both preposterous and insulting!
End of rant! Thanks for enduring it!!
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 11:55:52 AM
Maybe we are trying to slay the wrong dragon here. Back when the cars were worthless, we just didn't care about this kind of stuff, now that they have become "investments" worth as much or more than many homes the game has changed. Perhaps the bulk of anger should be directed to the fools who were willing to pay any amount of money no matter how much it took because they had to own the 340 Duster that looks just like the one they drooled over in high school?
And thats why I am not bothered by the stuff.....The car lives on and to me Thats what matters.
Be patient Dan, you have to understand there are some very legitimate issues in the hobby today surrounding the topics we "gin up"-ing. As unpleasant as you may find it, the car opens the door to that discussion and heated though it may sometimes become, it is still very much worth paying attention to.
The fact of the matter is that some the recent developments in our hobby have made it easier for the criminal element to do what they have been doing all along and it makes it harder to catch them as well. The future of car restoration is under attack enough from the outside without the do gooders getting a leg up on us by them getting wind of some huge black market in fraudulent cars. I am not implying that ther is one or that you are part of one or that you are creating one. I am stating that we need to be vigilant to keep it at bay so the anti cars don't get another bullet for the green gun.
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 12:07:44 PM
Be patient Dan, you have to understand there are some very legitimate issues in the hobby today surrounding the topics we "gin up"-ing. As unpleasant as you may find it, the car opens the door to that discussion and heated though it may sometimes become, it is still very much worth paying attention to.
The fact of the matter is that some the recent developments in our hobby have made it easier for the criminal element to do what they have been doing all along and it makes it harder to catch them as well. The future of car restoration is under attack enough from the outside without the do gooders getting a leg up on us by them getting wind of some huge black market in fraudulent cars. I am not implying that ther is one or that you are part of one or that you are creating one. I am stating that we need to be vigilant to keep it at bay so the anti cars don't get another bullet for the green gun.
Ghoste,
You are one of those who insist on calling it a "re-body". Perhaps, if you changed THAT perspective, we would agree.
Quoteall the metal work was done in Georgia.
Aha! Useful information at last. Georgia does have a provision for 'restoring' numbers. Georgia VIN laws at http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/VINfraud/VINfraudGA.shtml
Some interesting quotes from it;
(2) "Identification number" means an identifying number, serial number, engine number, or other distinguishing number or mark placed on a vehicle or engine by its manufacturer or by authority of the commissioner or in accordance with the laws of another state or country.
§ 40-4-23. When identification number not deemed falsified
An identification number may be placed on a vehicle or engine by its manufacturer in the regular course of business or placed or restored on a vehicle or engine by authority of the commissioner without violating this article. An identification number so placed or restored is not falsified.
(2)(A) The registered owner of any motor vehicle which is damaged to the extent that its restoration to an operable condition would require the replacement of the front clip assembly, which includes the fenders, hood, and bumper; the rear clip assembly, which includes the quarter panels, the floor panel assembly, and the roof assembly, excluding a soft top; the frame; and a complete side, which includes the fenders, door, and quarter panel shall mail or deliver the certificate of title to the commissioner for cancellation.
The key phrase seems to be 'by authority of the commissioner ' though.
I think its great that so many cars that would have been junked can be saved now.....My car is a great example. It would have been a parts car at best 5 years ago. It now has almost as much new AMD parts on it as thae one in question. I am proud of the work I did to the car and I will show all the steps. Its saved instead of junked.
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on November 07, 2010, 12:12:15 PM
Quoteall the metal work was done in Georgia.
Aha! Useful information at last. Georgia does have a provision for 'restoring' numbers. Georgia VIN laws at http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/VINfraud/VINfraudGA.shtml
Some interesting quotes from it;
(2) "Identification number" means an identifying number, serial number, engine number, or other distinguishing number or mark placed on a vehicle or engine by its manufacturer or by authority of the commissioner or in accordance with the laws of another state or country.
§ 40-4-23. When identification number not deemed falsified
An identification number may be placed on a vehicle or engine by its manufacturer in the regular course of business or placed or restored on a vehicle or engine by authority of the commissioner without violating this article. An identification number so placed or restored is not falsified.
(2)(A) The registered owner of any motor vehicle which is damaged to the extent that its restoration to an operable condition would require the replacement of the front clip assembly, which includes the fenders, hood, and bumper; the rear clip assembly, which includes the quarter panels, the floor panel assembly, and the roof assembly, excluding a soft top; the frame; and a complete side, which includes the fenders, door, and quarter panel shall mail or deliver the certificate of title to the commissioner for cancellation.
The key phrase seems to be 'by authority of the commissioner ' though.
The car is not registered in Georgia, so its rules are mute. The car will be registered in California, where it will be inspected and verified by a state authorized VIN inspector BEFORE a California registration will be issued.
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 12:00:06 PM
There are a couple of considerations about the XP Hemi which I believe are being overlooked or intentionally disregarded by a few members here who simply want to "gin up" this non-issue. I suggest you take their comments with a grain of salt.
First consider what percentage of this car is using "factory licensed" replacement parts – not LKQ, CAPA or imitation parts. AMD licenses a great deal of Chrysler authorized and inspected parts. Chrysler also makes a profit from the sale of these parts! They are sold to the public, as being authentic and meeting the 1969 standards. No modern process is applied such as; double dipped zinc coating, or modern metal thickness, in an effort to keep them authentic to Chrysler's original standards.
Secondly, I take exception to calling this a "re-body" or replacement body. This was, and is a RESTORATION. We did not turn a second car into the XP Hemi. A more appropriate term may be "re-skinned" or "rebuilt" – not "re-bodied", for the simple reason an entirely new body was not used. A number of posters are comparing it to a Dynacorn body shell, which is not correct and not fair. I have built three Dynacorn shells and I can assure you, this is not in the same situation. This car has components in it which rolled down the Chrysler assembly line – including the most important part as deemed by law: the entire firewall dash with the factory installed VIN plate. In addition, front rails, A – pillar, roof substructure components have all been retained. A Dynacorn body does not have a single component that came from Detroit or from the period the car represents and they certainly do not contain a manufacturers VIN tag!
Third, the partial ID numbers from the original car were part of an original section of sheet metal that did not require replacement. The section was not damaged and was saved. There are some here who are insistent that there wasn't enough effort made to save original panels or sections of the original car because we were showcasing sponsors products. If we had saved the original driver's door, as some are insistent could have been done, and the door contained an ID number or plaque, would they also insist that it should not have been installed? I doubt it. Yet, saving it would have required extensive metal replacement or a patch panel made of NEW metal. Whose standards do we need to meet before what was done is acceptable: a couple of members of the MOPAR community? Or the law? To the very best of my knowledge, there is no law which states numbers other than the VIN cannot be saved and retained and grafted onto a new part. We treated the new trunk rain gutter piece and the top radiator support as a patch panel, rather than replacing the entire part, we left the section with the ID number on the original car. NOTHING was re-stamped. Those numbers came with this car ...and they are still with this car!
Fourth, the work performed on this car was done in the open light of day. Not in some back barn out of view from the public. The XP Hemi will also be known from this point forward as the car restored on Chop Cut Rebuild. Its restoration process will have been seen by millions of people around the world. We have been and continue to be straight forward with what happened to the car and the details are evident to anyone who cares to watch the series. The idea that it could possibly have been done to deceive the next buyer is both preposterous and insulting!
End of rant! Thanks for enduring it!!
agreed ! :yesnod: :2thumbs:
all this exterior sheet metal that has been replaced , ( i appreciate more than that was replaced on this build , )) , but doors hoods , deck lid roof, rockers !! yes good to have all original parts , but ! don't mean much to me !! just supposing the car was rolled in a wreck in the 70s & repaired with new sheet metal !! its still the same car !! etc ...
just like cars that are wrecked today are repaired , just so happens that we can now get new factory panels in 2010 for our mopars ,
cars still the same , rebody is another body shell used !! not the original one been repaired ,
not sure where i'm going with this , but thought i would add my view
Quote from: tan top on November 07, 2010, 12:28:06 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 12:00:06 PM
There are a couple of considerations about the XP Hemi which I believe are being overlooked or intentionally disregarded by a few members here who simply want to "gin up" this non-issue. I suggest you take their comments with a grain of salt.
First consider what percentage of this car is using "factory licensed" replacement parts – not LKQ, CAPA or imitation parts. AMD licenses a great deal of Chrysler authorized and inspected parts. Chrysler also makes a profit from the sale of these parts! They are sold to the public, as being authentic and meeting the 1969 standards. No modern process is applied such as; double dipped zinc coating, or modern metal thickness, in an effort to keep them authentic to Chrysler's original standards.
Secondly, I take exception to calling this a "re-body" or replacement body. This was, and is a RESTORATION. We did not turn a second car into the XP Hemi. A more appropriate term may be "re-skinned" or "rebuilt" – not "re-bodied", for the simple reason an entirely new body was not used. A number of posters are comparing it to a Dynacorn body shell, which is not correct and not fair. I have built three Dynacorn shells and I can assure you, this is not in the same situation. This car has components in it which rolled down the Chrysler assembly line – including the most important part as deemed by law: the entire firewall dash with the factory installed VIN plate. In addition, front rails, A – pillar, roof substructure components have all been retained. A Dynacorn body does not have a single component that came from Detroit or from the period the car represents and they certainly do not contain a manufacturers VIN tag!
Third, the partial ID numbers from the original car were part of an original section of sheet metal that did not require replacement. The section was not damaged and was saved. There are some here who are insistent that there wasn't enough effort made to save original panels or sections of the original car because we were showcasing sponsors products. If we had saved the original driver's door, as some are insistent could have been done, and the door contained an ID number or plaque, would they also insist that it should not have been installed? I doubt it. Yet, saving it would have required extensive metal replacement or a patch panel made of NEW metal. Whose standards do we need to meet before what was done is acceptable: a couple of members of the MOPAR community? Or the law? To the very best of my knowledge, there is no law which states numbers other than the VIN cannot be saved and retained and grafted onto a new part. We treated the new trunk rain gutter piece and the top radiator support as a patch panel, rather than replacing the entire part, we left the section with the ID number on the original car. NOTHING was re-stamped. Those numbers came with this car ...and they are still with this car!
Fourth, the work performed on this car was done in the open light of day. Not in some back barn out of view from the public. The XP Hemi will also be known from this point forward as the car restored on Chop Cut Rebuild. Its restoration process will have been seen by millions of people around the world. We have been and continue to be straight forward with what happened to the car and the details are evident to anyone who cares to watch the series. The idea that it could possibly have been done to deceive the next buyer is both preposterous and insulting!
End of rant! Thanks for enduring it!!
agreed ! :yesnod: :2thumbs:
all this exterior sheet metal that has been replaced , ( i appreciate more than that was replaced on this build , )) , but doors hoods , deck lid roof, rockers !! yes good to have all original parts , but ! don't mean much to me !! just supposing the car was rolled in a wreck in the 70s & repaired with new sheet metal !! its still the same car !! etc ...
just like cars that are wrecked today are repaired , just so happens that we can now get new factory panels in 2010 for our mopars ,
cars still the same , rebody is another body shell used !! not the original one been repaired ,
not sure where i'm going with this , but thought i would add my view
Very good points Steve.
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on November 07, 2010, 12:12:15 PM
Quoteall the metal work was done in Georgia.
Aha! Useful information at last. Georgia does have a provision for 'restoring' numbers. Georgia VIN laws at http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/VINfraud/VINfraudGA.shtml
Some interesting quotes from it;
(2) "Identification number" means an identifying number, serial number, engine number, or other distinguishing number or mark placed on a vehicle or engine by its manufacturer or by authority of the commissioner or in accordance with the laws of another state or country.
§ 40-4-23. When identification number not deemed falsified
An identification number may be placed on a vehicle or engine by its manufacturer in the regular course of business or placed or restored on a vehicle or engine by authority of the commissioner without violating this article. An identification number so placed or restored is not falsified.
(2)(A) The registered owner of any motor vehicle which is damaged to the extent that its restoration to an operable condition would require the replacement of the front clip assembly, which includes the fenders, hood, and bumper; the rear clip assembly, which includes the quarter panels, the floor panel assembly, and the roof assembly, excluding a soft top; the frame; and a complete side, which includes the fenders, door, and quarter panel shall mail or deliver the certificate of title to the commissioner for cancellation.
The key phrase seems to be 'by authority of the commissioner ' though.
The car is not registered in Georgia, so its rules are mute. The car will be registered in California, where it will be inspected and verified by a state authorized VIN inspector BEFORE a California registration will be issued.
Are the rules silent, or is it a "moot" point?
Well I have to ask the people that don't like what was done, what if it was YOUR Charger that was being restored and the dash area where the VIN is attached was rusted beyond repair? Does that mean you don't repair that area and re-attach the VIN? :eyes: Do you just junk the whole car and forget the restoration?
That's unrealistic and I'm glad this car was saved. 5 more years outside and about the only thing left of this car would have been the VIN tag.
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on November 07, 2010, 12:12:15 PM
Quoteall the metal work was done in Georgia.
Aha! Useful information at last. Georgia does have a provision for 'restoring' numbers. Georgia VIN laws at http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/VINfraud/VINfraudGA.shtml
Some interesting quotes from it;
(2) "Identification number" means an identifying number, serial number, engine number, or other distinguishing number or mark placed on a vehicle or engine by its manufacturer or by authority of the commissioner or in accordance with the laws of another state or country.
§ 40-4-23. When identification number not deemed falsified
An identification number may be placed on a vehicle or engine by its manufacturer in the regular course of business or placed or restored on a vehicle or engine by authority of the commissioner without violating this article. An identification number so placed or restored is not falsified.
(2)(A) The registered owner of any motor vehicle which is damaged to the extent that its restoration to an operable condition would require the replacement of the front clip assembly, which includes the fenders, hood, and bumper; the rear clip assembly, which includes the quarter panels, the floor panel assembly, and the roof assembly, excluding a soft top; the frame; and a complete side, which includes the fenders, door, and quarter panel shall mail or deliver the certificate of title to the commissioner for cancellation.
The key phrase seems to be 'by authority of the commissioner ' though.
Really?? I would think the key phrase is, "
or by authority of the commissioner or in accordance with the laws of another state or country." and therefore making it impossible to sort to any real standard :popcrn:
Quote from: 1969chargerrtse on November 07, 2010, 11:35:25 AM
Quote from: 1HotDaytona on November 07, 2010, 09:17:59 AM
no matter how you look at it....Its parts to fix a car! Even in a "rebody" situation...parts to fix a car.
As far as the numbers being transfered....big deal. They stay with the car this way. Not in an envelope,but in the place where they belong .
I think the whole issue of "rebody" is blown way out of proportion anyway.. :brickwall: Its parts to fix a car and as long as you are up front about the repairs then so be it.
Yes Brian, but if Jay Leno had this car he would of taken the time to make sure as much of the original car was preserved. As he does with his other classics's. This was/is a real rare and special car and the only reason
such a large portion was replaced was because of time and money due to the show. This car deserved better.
What about the originaL doors with the Hemi badge holes? That would of been well worth the work to save them.
This subject along with the Vin will never have a unanimous agreement.
I agree there will be discord amongst purists. But, the laws should be firm and clear, which they are not. There is a federal re-body law developed for transport truck roll over's that doesn't specify transport trucks. Which means it should apply to any motor vehicle. But, it is largely ignored by the states although; Montana, Arizona, and New Mexico, seem to abide by it. I have spent many hours discussing this subject with professionals who make replacement parts, builders who use them, executives from the factories, and lawmakers who are trying to get their heads around this subject. I belong to SEMA's restoration committee (ARMO) and have reviewed many of their briefs sent to state legislators.
As for how Jay Leno would restore this car, I think he would have done nearly the same things. Perhaps, he would have sought out more NOS than we did. Jay does not restore cars which have an abundance of aftermarket parts available. Jay's team hand rolls panels and replaces them. Which means he also keeps only a percentage of the original car and worse.... He uses parts not licensed by the original manufacturer. :o
Quote from: XS29L9Bxxxxxx on November 07, 2010, 12:35:25 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 12:26:04 PM
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on November 07, 2010, 12:12:15 PM
Quoteall the metal work was done in Georgia.
Aha! Useful information at last. Georgia does have a provision for 'restoring' numbers. Georgia VIN laws at http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/VINfraud/VINfraudGA.shtml
Some interesting quotes from it;
(2) "Identification number" means an identifying number, serial number, engine number, or other distinguishing number or mark placed on a vehicle or engine by its manufacturer or by authority of the commissioner or in accordance with the laws of another state or country.
§ 40-4-23. When identification number not deemed falsified
An identification number may be placed on a vehicle or engine by its manufacturer in the regular course of business or placed or restored on a vehicle or engine by authority of the commissioner without violating this article. An identification number so placed or restored is not falsified.
(2)(A) The registered owner of any motor vehicle which is damaged to the extent that its restoration to an operable condition would require the replacement of the front clip assembly, which includes the fenders, hood, and bumper; the rear clip assembly, which includes the quarter panels, the floor panel assembly, and the roof assembly, excluding a soft top; the frame; and a complete side, which includes the fenders, door, and quarter panel shall mail or deliver the certificate of title to the commissioner for cancellation.
The key phrase seems to be 'by authority of the commissioner ' though.
The car is not registered in Georgia, so its rules are mute. The car will be registered in California, where it will be inspected and verified by a state authorized VIN inspector BEFORE a California registration will be issued.
Are the rules silent, or is it a "moot" point?
A little of both I think! :cheers:
Quote from: Charger440RDN on November 07, 2010, 12:36:26 PM
Well I have to ask the people that don't like what was done, what if it was YOUR Charger that was being restored and the dash area where the VIN is attached was rusted beyond repair? Does that mean you don't repair that area and re-attach the VIN? :eyes: Do you just junk the whole car and forget the restoration?
That's unrealistic and I'm glad this car was saved. 5 more years outside and about the only thing left of this car would have been the VIn tag.
"5 more years outside and about the only thing left of this car would have been the VIn tag."
That is true. :2thumbs:
I see both sides. Great job on the car, I would have went with a new roof and full quarter if they were available when I did my work but I am poor so I saved what I could. Yeah the car would have been maybe worth more later but to some money is no option anyway and with publicity it probably will still be worth big bucks. On the other side now this kind of opens up a can of worms for others who do the same way will say "The XP Hemi car was done this way" then later down the line after a few owners they don't know what they really have.
I have been reading this with interest. This is what I get from it. People are looking at this subject as dealing with just this car and others are looking at how things that were done to this car can affect how other people restoring a car rationalize their decisions.
This car was done out in the open and as stated by several people there is no doubt as to what was done. I think commiting fraud with this particular car would be next to impossible.
I think the problem is that somebody in their garage does the same thing and rationalizes it with "they did it on that TV show". The problem is that there is not video proof of what was done for all to see and if he "forgets" to disclose this to the next buyer or it gets forgotten a few buyers down the road somebody is going to get burned.
I also would like to say that stamping a block with the factory font to make it look like the original block is just plain wrong, even if it isn't technically illegal. I can see stamping it with a random code to tie it to your vehicle is smart. Protect your assets. But there is only one reason to stamp it with the VIN if it was not the original motor. We all know what that is.
I think the car looks great, but I think many problems can arise when people do not look at the whole picture rather than at just the project they are working on at the moment. For this project, what was done was well documented for all to see. I commend you for being up front and honest. The problem that will arise is that others will only take a part of what you did (welding the original stampings into the replacement part) and rationalize it's legitimacy while forgetting the full disclosure part.
Lastly, I would like to say I do not consider this a re-body. Replacement parts were used. They did not take the VIN and fender tag and other ID numbers from the rusted car and put them into a totally different car.
I guess until I change my idea of what defines a rebody then I can't much change my perspective. Sorry, I know it angers you but I just don't see it as a reskin. I'm not inflexible but for now I have to go with that.
To give you the benefit of the doubt and to establish (hopefully) the same from you towards me, I cannot get the tv program here. I have to draw my conclusions based on limited evidence, but if that's all I have then that is what I am running with. I realize it pisses you Dan, but... :shruggy:
Hey, if it helps I have noted that the car looks great and I have always upheld as much as a narrowminded prick like me can the idea of saving it. :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 01:06:57 PM
I guess until I change my idea of what defines a rebody then I can't much change my perspective. Sorry, I know it angers you but I just don't see it as a reskin. I'm not inflexible but for now I have to go with that.
So say a car was in a front end collision back in 1985 and had the front fenders, inner fenders, front valance, hood and grill and bumper replaced is rear ended in 2009 and now has the AMD rear quarters, trunk, trunk lid and rear valance replaced. Is this now a re-body or is it excempt because of the time between replacing most of the body panels?
Just some food for thought. :scratchchin:
Been chewing on it for some time. :lol: Yes, it opens up the old paradox about great great great grandfathers axe (handed down for generations and has only had the head and handle replaced). There is no clear cut definition and no easy answer, it's a very gray area right now.
And for the record, no I would certainly not consider that to be the original vehicle anymore. Although I also don't know what it should be considered either as it certainly should still be on the road. Especially after survivng two accidents that were so horrendous that each time exactly one half of the entire car was replaced.
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 01:23:44 PM
Been chewing on it for some time. :lol: Yes, it opens up the old paradox about great great great grandfathers axe (handed down for generations and has only had the head and handle replaced). There is no clear cut definition and no easy answer, it's a very gray area right now.
Ghoste, there is a clear definition between "re-body" and restored, re-skinned, replaced. You're just not accepting of the definition, which is your prerogative. It's very simple: this is NOT a Dynacorn body replacement. It is an extensive restoration. This car has many of it's original parts - including sheet metal that has a partial VIN. The percentage of original parts may not be to your liking, in which case I would suggest you not purchase it if it is sold. But, it does fall into the legal definition of retaining it's original registration and VIN. There is no "gray" area... Perhaps we should start calling you the "Gray Ghoste"? ...Just kidding.
The rebody existed long before Dynacorn so I don't use that as the benchnmark but yes, I do define it on how much of the original car still exists. And quite frankly I would love to be in a position to buy the car when the opportunity arises. Although I would probably return a lot of the suspension and drivetrain components to a more stock configuration and make it clear to everyone that I felt I owned a rebodied car. But if that happens, it too shall be my perogative.
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 01:35:19 PM
The rebody existed long before Dynacorn so I don't use that as the benchnmark but yes, I do define it on how much of the original car still exists. And quite frankly I would love to be in a position to buy the car when the opportunity arises. Although I would probably return a lot of the suspension and drivetrain components to a more stock configuration and make it clear to everyone that I felt I owned a rebodied car. But if that happens, it too shall be my perogative.
So, what is YOUR acceptable percentage? And if the car falls short of your standards, what then? Should it be re-registered as a 2010? If so, then by law an original style motor would not be acceptable, emissions standards would not be acceptable either. Creates quite the dilemma if the target moves from person to person, doesn't it?
Oh heaven forbid it's titled as a 2010 the winner there is the tax man !
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 01:48:00 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 01:35:19 PM
The rebody existed long before Dynacorn so I don't use that as the benchnmark but yes, I do define it on how much of the original car still exists. And quite frankly I would love to be in a position to buy the car when the opportunity arises. Although I would probably return a lot of the suspension and drivetrain components to a more stock configuration and make it clear to everyone that I felt I owned a rebodied car. But if that happens, it too shall be my perogative.
So, what is YOUR acceptable percentage? And if the car falls short of your standards, what then? Should it be re-registered as a 2010? If so, then by law an original style motor would not be acceptable, emissions standards would not be acceptable either. Creates quite the dilemma if the target moves from person to person, doesn't it?
THAT'S why I call it gray. There isn't a defined answer yet and there needs to somehow be. I know what the law and I also know that even the briefest of looks will pull up all kinds of questions about numbers and matching and being defrauded, not to mention the countless ads crowing loudly about numbers matching. That is also why I said that at one time it didn't matter but in todays world with amounts of money being placed on the table, it becomes a big deal.
I know everyone is stuck on the Vin and I understand that but does anyone agree with me this car was so special, one of a kind that all messures should of been taken to keep every last piece original.? I wish those doors with the original Hemi badge holes were kept on the car.
Brian's car is different, he created a clone ( Master piece :2thumbs: ) from scratch. this thing is a Legend to me.
I've stated as much several times now.
My 2 pennies worth...
A) The original "skeleton" of the XP Hemicar was used in the "restoration". Panels were replaced that were too far gone to "feasibly" save without miracle metal work. The partial body VIN's were grafted onto said replacement panels which attach to the original "skeleton" framework of the original car....
My definition/opinion of above example A.... RESTORATION
B) A donor "skeleton" was used that was in better shape than the original XP Hemicar skeleton. Panels were replaced that were too far gone to "feasibly" save without miracle metal work. The partial body VIN's were grafted onto said replacement panels which attach to the donor "skeleton" framework of the donor car....
My definition/opinion of above example B..... RE-BODY
I am/was lead to believe that CCR used the original skeleton of the XP Hemicar for its restoration. Example A :Twocents:
PS----I still think it was just a typo :nana:
Oh great, more controversy. :lol:
FWIW, I agree with your definitions Chris. My hangup with this car has been what I alluded to earlier as far as not being able to see the program and having to rely on what info I could get as to what was retained or replaced. It was my understanding that little to nothing of the original skeleton remained but if I am wrong then i concede on the "rebody" term.
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 07, 2010, 02:27:30 PM
PS----I still think it was a typo :nana:
Then why did it have torque boxes(albeit mostly disintegrated) and holes in the door where the hemi badge is mounted?.....answer me that smarty pants! :scope:
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 07, 2010, 02:37:43 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 07, 2010, 02:27:30 PM
PS----I still think it was a typo :nana:
Then why did it have torque boxes(albeit mostly disintegrated) and holes in the door where the hemi badge is mounted?.....answer me that smarty pants! :scope:
Because the typo was the "P" in place of the "S"
PS---dont insult me by calling me smart!
Sure, get all technical now! :rofl:
What about the 68 parts? (and the great guru's blessing?)
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 07, 2010, 02:41:55 PM
:icon_smile_question:
VIN should have been XS29J9 instead of the typo XP29J9
PS---Sydmo Im glad you figured it out while I was typing it out to explain it to you ;)
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 02:43:13 PM
What about the 68 parts? (and the great guru's blessing?)
All bolt on stuff that could have been added in the 41+ years of its existence..... What makes a door handle a '68? The black buttons? A lot of early build '69s had black buttons....fuel cap? bolt on....headlamp bezels? bolt on....heck I have them on my '69 :rotz:
No R/T badge holes on quarters or evidence of a stripe?.... Hmmm....owner wanted a stripe delete Hemi car....sure no problem...peel the DECAL off! Instant stripe delete.
R/T emblem STILL in tailpanel though. :scratchchin: No one is really remembering that though....
Guru's blessing? Yes he verified that it was an original Hemi car & the VIN tag had a typo. Thank you very much that will be $1,000 plus transportation & room & board!!
:haha:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 07, 2010, 02:45:42 PM
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 07, 2010, 02:41:55 PM
:icon_smile_question:
VIN should have been XS29J9 instead of the typo XP29J9
PS---Sydmo Im glad you figured it out while I was typing it out to explain it to you ;)
Ya, at first I was thinking you meant the engine code was a typo.
I thought the guru had blessed it as an XP Hemi?
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 07, 2010, 02:45:42 PM
All bolt on stuff that could have been added in the 41+ years of its existence..... What makes a door handle a '68? The black buttons? A lot of early build '69s had black buttons....fuel cap? bolt on....headlamp bezels? bolt on....heck I have them on my '69 :rotz:
No R/T badge holes on quarters or evidence of a stripe?.... Hmmm....owner wanted a stripe delete Hemi car....sure no problem...peel the DECAL off! Instant stripe delete.
R/T emblem STILL in tailpanel though. :scratchchin: No one is really remembering that though....
Guru's blessing? Yes he verified that it was an original Hemi car & the VIN tag had a typo. Thank you very much that will be $1,000 plus transportation & room & board!!
:haha:
Them there would be an awful lot of coincidences ! :scratchchin:
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 02:56:08 PM
I thought the guru had blessed it as an XP Hemi?
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 07, 2010, 02:45:42 PM
Guru's blessing? Yes he verified that it was an original Hemi car & the VIN tag had a typo. Thank you very much that will be $1,000 plus transportation & room & board!!
:haha:
Exactly... :haha:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 07, 2010, 02:40:21 PM
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 07, 2010, 02:37:43 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 07, 2010, 02:27:30 PM
PS----I still think it was a typo :nana:
Then why did it have torque boxes(albeit mostly disintegrated) and holes in the door where the hemi badge is mounted?.....answer me that smarty pants! :scope:
Because the typo was the "P" in place of the "S"
PS---dont insult me by calling me smart!
Ahh, but would an "S" car have torque boxes? Or, dual exhaust hangers?
We just can't get rid of you can we Dan!...........just joking of course! Your starting to move up in posts and time online here, you'll be a regular soon!
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 07, 2010, 02:40:21 PM
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 07, 2010, 02:37:43 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 07, 2010, 02:27:30 PM
PS----I still think it was a typo :nana:
Then why did it have torque boxes(albeit mostly disintegrated) and holes in the door where the hemi badge is mounted?.....answer me that smarty pants! :scope:
Because the typo was the "P" in place of the "S"
PS---dont insult me by calling me smart!
Ahh, but would an "S" car have torque boxes? Or, dual exhaust hangers?
Of course it would Dan....
XS is the designation for an R/T model Charger...which is the only designation (except for the XX Charger 500 & Daytona designation) that the Hemi engine could have been available in
XP is the designation for a base model Charger where the 383-4bbl engine would be the largest available
We are not disputing the "J" which is the Hemi engine code....
Torque boxes are Hemi only items.... Dual exhaust hangars? big blocks got those....not only hemi's
Man I'm getting all confused about this car. So what about the car in the ads? Hemi badge but no R/T on the headlamp door or on the rear quarters? This is not that car since it had R/T on the rear panel? Help me. :P
It's part of the mystery. The car in the ads is largely assumed to not be THIS car, which would mean there were at least two of them.
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 03:54:45 PM
It's part of the mystery. The car in the ads is largely assumed to not be THIS car, which would mean there were at least two of them.
:yesnod: :popcrn:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,54133.75.html
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 03:54:45 PM
It's part of the mystery. The car in the ads is largely assumed to not be THIS car, which would mean there were at least two of them.
Thanks. I love the comment made a while ago about how surprised the original engineers would be to know anyone would care 40 years later.
Or anyone else. They were just mass produced transportation after all. I didn't think I'd be that stressed (not stressed maybe but certainly passsionate) out about it even a decade ago.
Quote from: 1969chargerrtse on November 07, 2010, 03:53:04 PM
Man I'm getting all confused about this car. So what about the car in the ads? Hemi badge but no R/T on the headlamp door or on the rear quarters? This is not that car since it had R/T on the rear panel? Help me. :P
Dan stated that the RT emblem didn't have factory punched holes.
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 07, 2010, 03:19:04 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 03:11:32 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 07, 2010, 02:40:21 PM
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 07, 2010, 02:37:43 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 07, 2010, 02:27:30 PM
PS----I still think it was a typo :nana:
Then why did it have torque boxes(albeit mostly disintegrated) and holes in the door where the hemi badge is mounted?.....answer me that smarty pants! :scope:
Because the typo was the "P" in place of the "S"
PS---dont insult me by calling me smart!
Ahh, but would an "S" car have torque boxes? Or, dual exhaust hangers?
Of course it would Dan....
XS is the designation for an R/T model Charger...which is the only designation (except for the XX Charger 500 & Daytona designation) that the Hemi engine could have been available in
XP is the designation for a base model Charger where the 383-4bbl engine would be the largest available
We are not disputing the "J" which is the Hemi engine code....
Torque boxes are Hemi only items.... Dual exhaust hangars? big blocks got those....not only hemi's
I wouldn't be quick to completely discount this car as not being the brochure car. There are far too many "coincidences" and questions unanswered. Color match, vinyl roof match, non-R/T badge on the headlight doors, no R/T badge on the quarters, Hemi badge holes on the doors, crowned holes for an after install of an R/T badge on the tail-pan, 68 door handles, 68 gas cap, 68 rear-view mirror. Saying the VIN code is simply a typo seems kind of dismissive to me.
The only contradiction seems to be how high the production number is. However, a poster on the Moparts board noted that the car could have been released for press duties and then VIN tagged after the 69 models were on the assembly line. I wouldn't be surprised to hear the car was re-worked by the factory after some promotional work was done. We found it with an engine that was completely contrary to the VIN and no one seems to understand why either.
It would also have had the doors replaced though and then the Hemi badges reinstalled as this car appears to have the 69 position door lock buttons and the brochure car had the 68 ones. More mud to the water huh?
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 04:04:59 PM
Or anyone else. They were just mass produced transportation after all. I didn't think I'd be that stressed (not stressed maybe but certainly passsionate) out about it even a decade ago.
You're absolutely right! No one at the time felt these cars needed time capsuled information. What info was issued was more about identity to prevent theft than for collector uses. But, a mystery is always fun to try solving!
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 04:56:19 PM
It would also have had the doors replaced though and then the Hemi badges reinstalled as this car appears to have the 69 position door lock buttons and the brochure car had the 68 ones. More mud to the water huh?
:yesnod: & auto trans cooler lines & three speaker dash also :yesnod: :popcrn: :scratchchin:
Quote from: Ghoste on November 07, 2010, 04:56:19 PM
It would also have had the doors replaced though and then the Hemi badges reinstalled as this car appears to have the 69 position door lock buttons and the brochure car had the 68 ones. More mud to the water huh?
I saw a picture of it where you could see the three holes quite clearly. They didn't even bother to cover them up. David Hakim, told me there were stories of cars dressed differently on each side too so they could use the same car in two different photo shoots... Some weird stuff went on at Chrylsler!
No, no, I don't mean the holes for the Hemi badges Dan. The hole at the top edge of the door where the lock button pokes through. It is in two different places from 68 to 69.
Can you not go to the DMV and get a vehicle history report to find the names of previous owners? Maybe the first registered owner might have some insight. Unless of course after it's media duties it was simply released to the dealer network and put on the lot as any other executive or company demo.
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 07, 2010, 03:14:13 PM
We just can't get rid of you can we Dan!...........just joking of course! Your starting to move up in posts and time online here, you'll be a regular soon!
I'm spending the day writing the narrations for episode 7, so this is a good distraction from my writers block! :brickwall:
Regular Tailpanel emblem has three holes-R/T only has two and in different locations.Not just a matter of adding or filling one hole.
[/quote]
David Hakim, told me there were stories of cars dressed differently on each side too so they could use the same car in two different photo shoots... Some weird stuff went on at Chrylsler!
[/quote]
Have road test pics with a '70 cuda with a hemi hockey stick on one side and a barracuda emblem on the other.
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 07, 2010, 03:14:13 PM
We just can't get rid of you can we Dan!...........just joking of course! Your starting to move up in posts and time online here, you'll be a regular soon!
I'm spending the day writing the narrations for episode 7, so this is a good distraction from my writers block! :brickwall:
Ah, come on that isn't totally true!.......you know were starting to grow on ya!
Quote from: UFO on November 07, 2010, 05:06:49 PM
Have road test pics with a '70 cuda with a hemi hockey stick on one side and a barracuda emblem on the other.
General Motors still does that today - there was a white Corvette which had different wheels on one side vs. another in 2007 or 2008... Still happens...
Quote from: The70RT on November 07, 2010, 04:39:09 PM
Quote from: 1969chargerrtse on November 07, 2010, 03:53:04 PM
Man I'm getting all confused about this car. So what about the car in the ads? Hemi badge but no R/T on the headlamp door or on the rear quarters? This is not that car since it had R/T on the rear panel? Help me. :P
Dan stated that the RT emblem didn't have factory punched holes.
On the rear quarters there were no holes, but the rear panel above the bumper had the markings of the R/T emblem, I thought I read way back some.
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 07, 2010, 05:05:47 PM
Can you not go to the DMV and get a vehicle history report to find the names of previous owners? Maybe the first registered owner might have some insight. Unless of course after it's media duties it was simply released to the dealer network and put on the lot as any other executive or company demo.
He already talked about how the info is not released. I went through that with Ca DMV with a lawyer. All they will tell me is a John marks owned my car. O.k John marks from where?
Quote from: 1969chargerrtse on November 07, 2010, 05:58:24 PM
Quote from: The70RT on November 07, 2010, 04:39:09 PM
Quote from: 1969chargerrtse on November 07, 2010, 03:53:04 PM
Man I'm getting all confused about this car. So what about the car in the ads? Hemi badge but no R/T on the headlamp door or on the rear quarters? This is not that car since it had R/T on the rear panel? Help me. :P
Dan stated that the RT emblem didn't have factory punched holes.
On the rear quarters there were no holes, but the rear panel above the bumper had the markings of the R/T emblem..
Yes he stated someone drilled holes in the tail panel because of the burrs on the backside from a drill bit.
Quote from: The70RT on November 07, 2010, 06:04:02 PM
Quote from: 1969chargerrtse on November 07, 2010, 05:58:24 PM
Quote from: The70RT on November 07, 2010, 04:39:09 PM
Quote from: 1969chargerrtse on November 07, 2010, 03:53:04 PM
Man I'm getting all confused about this car. So what about the car in the ads? Hemi badge but no R/T on the headlamp door or on the rear quarters? This is not that car since it had R/T on the rear panel? Help me. :P
Dan stated that the RT emblem didn't have factory punched holes.
On the rear quarters there were no holes, but the rear panel above the bumper had the markings of the R/T emblem..
Yes he stated someone drilled holes in the tail panel because of the burrs on the backside from a drill bit.
Yea thanks, found it.
#76
" 4) the ONLY R/T badge was one on the tail panel that appears to have been added by hand at sometime during it's life. the filming will show this detail."
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 07, 2010, 03:14:13 PM
We just can't get rid of you can we Dan!...........just joking of course! Your starting to move up in posts and time online here, you'll be a regular soon!
I'm spending the day writing the narrations for episode 7, so this is a good distraction from my writers block! :brickwall:
Dan...and I was certain you ad-libbed all of your dialogue! :icon_smile_big:
But now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen a person do as many segues while popping off as many puns as you do!! :2thumbs:
Quote from: Magnumcharger on November 07, 2010, 06:31:12 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 05:06:13 PM
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 07, 2010, 03:14:13 PM
We just can't get rid of you can we Dan!...........just joking of course! Your starting to move up in posts and time online here, you'll be a regular soon!
I'm spending the day writing the narrations for episode 7, so this is a good distraction from my writers block! :brickwall:
Dan...and I was certain you ad-libbed all of your dialogue! :icon_smile_big:
But now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen a person do as many segues while popping off as many puns as you do!! :2thumbs:
Yes, I am a master punner ...it's lots of funner!
Hey Dan or Shafi......do you know if the car will be at the Mopars at the Strip show in Vegas in April?
Quote from: 69bronzeT5 on November 07, 2010, 08:59:32 PM
Hey Dan or Shafi......do you know if the car will be at the Mopars at the Strip show in Vegas in April?
The Chargers next appearance will be at the Nov. 20th taping of "Pinks All Out" in Arizona, where it will race against... the CSOC Corvette!
No other events have been booked at this point.
Quote from: ccr-host on November 07, 2010, 09:41:36 PM
Quote from: 69bronzeT5 on November 07, 2010, 08:59:32 PM
Hey Dan or Shafi......do you know if the car will be at the Mopars at the Strip show in Vegas in April?
The Chargers next appearance will be at the Nov. 20th taping of "Pinks All Out" in Arizona, where it will race against... the CSOC Corvette!
No other events have been booked at this point.
That'll be interesting! Based on the last episode there seems to a lot of effort being put into making that Vette go..... I hope the hemi your putting in XP is up to the task!
:iagree:
That E-brock supercharger setup looks sweet in that vette :thumbs:
i guess i just feel like ranting, but here we have 2 huge people in the muscle car world comming here to try to share a rebuild of a car that is so far gone no-one would want to touch it.its a charger that is being saved. its done in front of the world. most people would love to have the chance to speak with the two responsible for bringing this car back to life and see what they had to do "with an inside scoop of the whole thing". but all we can do is try to find something illegal about the transformation. we hashed this out early in this thread, and mabey we could get down to finding out all the facts about this car, but it seems all that keeps going on is,"did someone do something wrong?" well, heres the facts, galen never said this is definately the missing car in any episode ive seen. he said IF. second the car was so far gone that anyone else in the world would either scrap it, or have to change everything on the car also. but wouldnt let the world see it so you wouldnt know what is real and not. these guys save a charger and all we have to say is "where is the door and trunk lid?" try to enjoy the car as a charger saved from sure death. yep, its a rolling billboard. so what? its alive and i like it. good job guys, there are alot of people that are loving seeing a car saved even if its at an expence that most of us could never afford. i thank you for doing it. :2thumbs:
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 08, 2010, 09:40:08 AM
i guess i just feel like ranting, but here we have 2 huge people in the muscle car world comming here to try to share a rebuild of a car that is so far gone no-one would want to touch it.its a charger that is being saved. its done in front of the world. most people would love to have the chance to speak with the two responsible for bringing this car back to life and see what they had to do "with an inside scoop of the whole thing". but all we can do is try to find something illegal about the transformation. we hashed this out early in this thread, and mabey we could get down to finding out all the facts about this car, but it seems all that keeps going on is,"did someone do something wrong?" well, heres the facts, galen never said this is definately the missing car in any episode ive seen. he said IF. second the car was so far gone that anyone else in the world would either scrap it, or have to change everything on the car also. but wouldnt let the world see it so you wouldnt know what is real and not. these guys save a charger and all we have to say is "where is the door and trunk lid?" try to enjoy the car as a charger saved from sure death. yep, its a rolling billboard. so what? its alive and i like it. good job guys, there are alot of people that are loving seeing a car saved even if its at an expence that most of us could never afford. i thank you for doing it. :2thumbs:
thats true also :yesnod: :2thumbs:
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 08, 2010, 09:40:08 AM
i guess i just feel like ranting, but here we have 2 huge people in the muscle car world comming here to try to share a rebuild of a car that is so far gone no-one would want to touch it.its a charger that is being saved. its done in front of the world. most people would love to have the chance to speak with the two responsible for bringing this car back to life and see what they had to do "with an inside scoop of the whole thing". but all we can do is try to find something illegal about the transformation. we hashed this out early in this thread, and mabey we could get down to finding out all the facts about this car, but it seems all that keeps going on is,"did someone do something wrong?" well, heres the facts, galen never said this is definately the missing car in any episode ive seen. he said IF. second the car was so far gone that anyone else in the world would either scrap it, or have to change everything on the car also. but wouldnt let the world see it so you wouldnt know what is real and not. these guys save a charger and all we have to say is "where is the door and trunk lid?" try to enjoy the car as a charger saved from sure death. yep, its a rolling billboard. so what? its alive and i like it. good job guys, there are alot of people that are loving seeing a car saved even if its at an expence that most of us could never afford. i thank you for doing it. :2thumbs:
:2thumbs: :cheers:
would be nice to find out the history on this mystery charger. i just got to say that it's a good thing ccr got ahold of this thing because almost anyone else would of never tried to save it from being scrapped one more charger on the road and saved from the crusher is the first priority IMO going to stock form or go aftermarket comes second either way i'm glad its saved to live again i'd go stock form in this special build but thats just me
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 08, 2010, 09:40:08 AM
i guess i just feel like ranting, but here we have 2 huge people in the muscle car world comming here to try to share a rebuild of a car that is so far gone no-one would want to touch it.its a charger that is being saved. its done in front of the world. most people would love to have the chance to speak with the two responsible for bringing this car back to life and see what they had to do "with an inside scoop of the whole thing". but all we can do is try to find something illegal about the transformation. we hashed this out early in this thread, and mabey we could get down to finding out all the facts about this car, but it seems all that keeps going on is,"did someone do something wrong?" well, heres the facts, galen never said this is definately the missing car in any episode ive seen. he said IF. second the car was so far gone that anyone else in the world would either scrap it, or have to change everything on the car also. but wouldnt let the world see it so you wouldnt know what is real and not. these guys save a charger and all we have to say is "where is the door and trunk lid?" try to enjoy the car as a charger saved from sure death. yep, its a rolling billboard. so what? its alive and i like it. good job guys, there are alot of people that are loving seeing a car saved even if its at an expence that most of us could never afford. i thank you for doing it. :2thumbs:
Thanks for the kind words! It was a great project to work on. Lots of ups and downs (see next months ME mag for details). I don't mind answering as many questions as possible about the build. This is a very knowledgeable community and a great board. But, yes it does get a little frustrating when you have to address the same question over and over or when someone says "I would have done it differently", with the implication that you did it wrong. LOL....
The reason some of us are being so passionate about this car is the rareness . :Twocents: As I have stated it's shafi's car he can do with it as he feels . That does not mean we dont have a right to say how and what we think should have happened to the car .
Quote from: moparstuart on November 08, 2010, 12:17:43 PM
The reason some of us are being so passionate about this car is the rareness . :Twocents: As I have stated it's shafi's car he can do with it as he feels . That does not mean we dont have a right to say how and what we think should have happened to the car .
You are absolutely right! You have every right to say how and what you think. You can like or not like the job we did. There are purists who think we should have brought the car back to original condition and they have a valid perspective. But, there are some who would like us to have saved the original rust and metal shavings in a bag too. Others want to do nothing more than pick fly sh*t out of the pepper. At the end of the day, the decisions that were made were made for a number of reasons, some of which we felt were more important than others do. I can explain the process all day but, I can't prevent people from second guessing what we opted to do. I do understand the passion. I wanted Doc Halladay to play for the Angels last year and they didn't pick him up... I'm angry at their decision too. It's nothing more than human nature.
What I think you need to consider more thoroughly is how you can be sure THIS car is so rare? What if it is just a typo on the VIN, as some have suggested? What if it is not the brochure car? Would that change your perspective? No one has stated clearly that it is or isn't. So, perhaps your passion about this particular car needs to be balanced with the possibility that it is not what you think it is and enjoy the mystery instead of getting too passonate about it! Just my :Twocents:
Hey MoparJim, I tried to reply to your PM but, you have them blocked... Thanks for the kind words.
Cheers!
Quote from: ccr-host on November 08, 2010, 01:06:12 PM
Hey MoparJim, I tried to reply to your PM but, you have them blocked... Thanks for the kind words.
Cheers!
Hi Dan, that's strange, I only have one person blocked and is sure isn't you though, the screen name starts with a N. I know recently I sent JB666 a pm also and he didn't get it either and now you say I had you block. Something is sure going hay wire around this place I think. Thanks for the heads up on it and I went in to check and only one name was in the blocked area and it started with a "n". Thanks again for the heads up on the issue. :cheers:
Quote from: MoparManJim on November 08, 2010, 01:25:24 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on November 08, 2010, 01:06:12 PM
Hey MoparJim, I tried to reply to your PM but, you have them blocked... Thanks for the kind words.
Cheers!
Hi Dan, that's strange, I only have one person blocked and is sure isn't you though, the screen name starts with a N. I know recently I sent JB666 a pm also and he didn't get it either and now you say I had you block. Something is sure going hay wire around this place I think. Thanks for the heads up on it and I went in to check and only one name was in the blocked area and it started with a "n". Thanks again for the heads up on the issue. :cheers:
i just sent you a pm jim, let me know if ya got it
On the subject of this cars VIN being a typo, how many document cases are there of this type of factory error during 1968-69 time period?
It would be fantastic if the original 426 block could be found to put back with the CCR car but i guess that would be wishful thinking i seen it happen a few times off this website. :Twocents:
Quote from: ccr-host on November 08, 2010, 12:53:52 PM
Quote from: moparstuart on November 08, 2010, 12:17:43 PM
The reason some of us are being so passionate about this car is the rareness . :Twocents: As I have stated it's shafi's car he can do with it as he feels . That does not mean we dont have a right to say how and what we think should have happened to the car .
You are absolutely right! You have every right to say how and what you think. You can like or not like the job we did. There are purists who think we should have brought the car back to original condition and they have a valid perspective. But, there are some who would like us to have saved the original rust and metal shavings in a bag too. Others want to do nothing more than pick fly sh*t out of the pepper. At the end of the day, the decisions that were made were made for a number of reasons, some of which we felt were more important than others do. I can explain the process all day but, I can't prevent people from second guessing what we opted to do. I do understand the passion. I wanted Doc Halladay to play for the Angels last year and they didn't pick him up... I'm angry at their decision too. It's nothing more than human nature.
What I think you need to consider more thoroughly is how you can be sure THIS car is so rare? What if it is just a typo on the VIN, as some have suggested? What if it is not the brochure car? Would that change your perspective? No one has stated clearly that it is or isn't. So, perhaps your passion about this particular car needs to be balanced with the possibility that it is not what you think it is and enjoy the mystery instead of getting too passonate about it! Just my :Twocents:
its not that i dont think you did a great job this job would have been great on any old xp charger , I have an xp charger that has been clones to and R/t and now is being clones to a daytona . But you have a hemi car ! :Twocents:
Quote from: ccr-host on November 08, 2010, 12:53:52 PM
Others want to do nothing more than pick fly sh*t out of the pepper.
BEST
LINE
EVER!
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 08, 2010, 09:40:08 AM
i guess i just feel like ranting, but here we have 2 huge people in the muscle car world comming here to try to share a rebuild of a car that is so far gone no-one would want to touch it.its a charger that is being saved. its done in front of the world. most people would love to have the chance to speak with the two responsible for bringing this car back to life and see what they had to do "with an inside scoop of the whole thing". but all we can do is try to find something illegal about the transformation. we hashed this out early in this thread, and mabey we could get down to finding out all the facts about this car, but it seems all that keeps going on is,"did someone do something wrong?" well, heres the facts, galen never said this is definately the missing car in any episode ive seen. he said IF. second the car was so far gone that anyone else in the world would either scrap it, or have to change everything on the car also. but wouldnt let the world see it so you wouldnt know what is real and not. these guys save a charger and all we have to say is "where is the door and trunk lid?" try to enjoy the car as a charger saved from sure death. yep, its a rolling billboard. so what? its alive and i like it. good job guys, there are alot of people that are loving seeing a car saved even if its at an expence that most of us could never afford. i thank you for doing it. :2thumbs:
:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: 6 thumbs up on a great post ... thank you !
Dan - thank you for being so involved in the forums! With all you have on your plate it is quite impressive to see you writing so much here. I think you understand why I am a Mopar guy - this is a passionate and knowledgeable group of folks that really take to the details of their cars.
We'd like to field some questions ... a question was asked about if XP HEMI is running. As of SEMA Nov 1 it was not. There was some wiring and mechanicals left - a couple weeks of assembly and dial in. Barton dyno'd the engine and they said it made over 600HP. The Currie Dana60 diff is a 3.73 with Detroit True-Trac. Our 5-speed transmission is a new close ratio design, fully synchromesh, which fits with NO CUTTING - only a very small hole for the shifter - you'll like this. The car has a set of BFG drag slicks. It should boogie! David Barton will drive the car at PINKS, and he is a stellar driver.
We are keeping the original take off parts that are potentially reusable or noteworthy such as the door, rear clip, filler cap, handle, lots of other little pieces, etc.
We'll contact the other sponsors to answer your q's if/when Dan or I don't have the answer.
Beautiful, be sure to post plenty of video when the time comes so we can see just how well she goes!!
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 08, 2010, 01:27:27 PM
Quote from: MoparManJim on November 08, 2010, 01:25:24 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on November 08, 2010, 01:06:12 PM
Hey MoparJim, I tried to reply to your PM but, you have them blocked... Thanks for the kind words.
Cheers!
Hi Dan, that's strange, I only have one person blocked and is sure isn't you though, the screen name starts with a N. I know recently I sent JB666 a pm also and he didn't get it either and now you say I had you block. Something is sure going hay wire around this place I think. Thanks for the heads up on it and I went in to check and only one name was in the blocked area and it started with a "n". Thanks again for the heads up on the issue. :cheers:
i just sent you a pm jim, let me know if ya got it
Just a real fast note here, as I don't want to hi-jack this thread.
Jim, I got your pm and also return one to you as well man.. thank you :cheers:
I also gotten an email from another board member alittle while ago that they I guess also tried to pm me and they had the same issue Dan had today.. there screen name isn't block on my side either so I have no idea what is going on. I know I have heard how screwy the pm'ing area on here is for some folks and how things likes to disappear just like that. But now it's blocking people from people to it sounds and looks like.
dan, when you guys were doing all the panels they seemed to go pretty easy, including the welding. is there something that went on behind the scenes that wasnt easy about them that we didnt get to see? also when the roof was lined up to the quarters on the pass side it was a little off. by cutting that down did it change any measurements in the rear window or quarter panel height or the height of the roof?
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 09, 2010, 08:20:07 AM
dan, when you guys were doing all the panels they seemed to go pretty easy, including the welding. is there something that went on behind the scenes that wasnt easy about them that we didnt get to see? also when the roof was lined up to the quarters on the pass side it was a little off. by cutting that down did it change any measurements in the rear window or quarter panel height or the height of the roof?
sorry for the mini hijack !!
that join was crap from the factory , or at least mine was !!! mine had all original sheet metal & never been previously been touched , before i done the resto ! dug all the factory fiber/putty type bondo out & that joint looked like a BK special :o
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 09, 2010, 08:20:07 AM
dan, when you guys were doing all the panels they seemed to go pretty easy, including the welding. is there something that went on behind the scenes that wasnt easy about them that we didnt get to see? also when the roof was lined up to the quarters on the pass side it was a little off. by cutting that down did it change any measurements in the rear window or quarter panel height or the height of the roof?
There is always some work that will need to be performed to the metal on any hand built car. Craig and his team worked for 6 weeks on the car and we were there for three of them. So, we pretty much saw all the work and mods that needed to be done during his phase. In all, there were just five area's that needed some massaging. This car had been hit on the front left years ago, which is why there is no fender tag and that may be the cause of more issues than the fit and quality of the AMD parts.
• The roof needed to be trimmed at the right B pillar, as you saw on the show, by a fraction of an inch.
• The A pillars (they're original) both sat a little high and that created a dip where they meet the tabs coming down from the new roof panel.
• The panel between the trunk lid and the glass is flat and it needs to angle upward slightly in the corners where they meet the chrome trim. They may have been stamped to do that and we missed that they had flattened, or it may be the way they are made. Either way, if you curve them a little before installation using your chrome wndow trim as a guide, you will save yourself some time filling in that gap later on... we didn't save ourselves the time. ::)
• The door to fender to A pillar gap required some work to make it perfect (you'll see that in an upcoming episode).
• Front lower valance (the turn signal housing) didn't line up perfectly. We needed to widen the holes on the inside of the lower front fenders and on the valance to make it fit. It's not a perfect job but, we intend to work on it a little more now that it's back from SEMA.
There are still some very minor alignment things to take care of such as; raising the rear bumper by a quarter inch. Aligning the rear fender extensions, etc... All pretty small stuff that we didn't have time to address before SEMA. Over all though, I'd say the fit of the panels was extremely good. Most of AMD's stamping is just three years old or less, where some Camaro and Mustang parts are being stamped on dyes that are now 10 to 15 years old and mixed with parts which have been recently created. Most parts are compared for fit to OE parts, not aftermarket to aftermarket so, to get so few alignment problems is exceptional.
whats going on with the pallet of used parts that was being gone through? anything left? i know i (and lots of others) wouldnt mind having a small momento of this great occasion!! a small piece of the xp hemi framed with a poster shot and an after shot with a few shots of the car being dismantled would be awsome. :2thumbs: so if there is any rust left and bagged up, are we gona sell it???? mabey cut the roof up, or the quarter panels up? just a thought, but it would make a great conversation piece in the car room. :2thumbs:
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 10, 2010, 08:28:41 AM
whats going on with the pallet of used parts that was being gone through? anything left? i know i (and lots of others) wouldnt mind having a small momento of this great occasion!! a small piece of the xp hemi framed with a poster shot and an after shot with a few shots of the car being dismantled would be awsome. :2thumbs: so if there is any rust left and bagged up, are we gona sell it???? mabey cut the roof up, or the quarter panels up? just a thought, but it would make a great conversation piece in the car room. :2thumbs:
I'll take a picture of Dan next to the XP car giving us the thumbs up just like the Fonz would do! :2thumbs: :icon_smile_big:
sweet, that would be cool :2thumbs:
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 10, 2010, 08:28:41 AM
whats going on with the pallet of used parts that was being gone through? anything left? i know i (and lots of others) wouldnt mind having a small momento of this great occasion!! a small piece of the xp hemi framed with a poster shot and an after shot with a few shots of the car being dismantled would be awsome. :2thumbs: so if there is any rust left and bagged up, are we gona sell it???? mabey cut the roof up, or the quarter panels up? just a thought, but it would make a great conversation piece in the car room. :2thumbs:
I'll stop the clean up right away! You guys know it's just trash right?? I mean, it's not like a lock of Elvis' hair or anything!
If you'd like a momento of the show, we will be reducing the price on our Chop Cut Rebuild license plates next week. Let me know if you're a member here and I'll sign them for anyone who requests it. Just add the word "Autographed" in the comments when you purchase. There's a limited number available, so don't "red-light" on this one!
Quote from: ccr-host on November 10, 2010, 01:33:41 PM
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 10, 2010, 08:28:41 AM
whats going on with the pallet of used parts that was being gone through? anything left? i know i (and lots of others) wouldnt mind having a small momento of this great occasion!! a small piece of the xp hemi framed with a poster shot and an after shot with a few shots of the car being dismantled would be awsome. :2thumbs: so if there is any rust left and bagged up, are we gona sell it???? mabey cut the roof up, or the quarter panels up? just a thought, but it would make a great conversation piece in the car room. :2thumbs:
I'll stop the clean up right away! You guys know it's just trash right?? I mean, it's not like a lock of Elvis' hair or anything!
If you'd like a momento of the show, we will be reducing the price on our Chop Cut Rebuild license plates next week. Let me know if you're a member here and I'll sign them for anyone who requests it. Just add the word "Autographed" in the comments when you purchase. There's a limited number available, so don't "red-light" on this one!
They don't want a plate, they want a piece of the car. :lol:
yep, ive got a piece of ryan newmans alltel dodge and ist not near what this car may be, so i think a piece of the car with pic's of before and after in a frame would be pretty cool. :2thumbs:
Quote from: ccr-host on November 10, 2010, 01:33:41 PM
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 10, 2010, 08:28:41 AM
whats going on with the pallet of used parts that was being gone through? anything left? i know i (and lots of others) wouldnt mind having a small momento of this great occasion!! a small piece of the xp hemi framed with a poster shot and an after shot with a few shots of the car being dismantled would be awsome. :2thumbs: so if there is any rust left and bagged up, are we gona sell it???? mabey cut the roof up, or the quarter panels up? just a thought, but it would make a great conversation piece in the car room. :2thumbs:
I'll stop the clean up right away! You guys know it's just trash right?? I mean, it's not like a lock of Elvis' hair or anything!
If you'd like a momento of the show, we will be reducing the price on our Chop Cut Rebuild license plates next week. Let me know if you're a member here and I'll sign them for anyone who requests it. Just add the word "Autographed" in the comments when you purchase. There's a limited number available, so don't "red-light" on this one!
Will you autograph it, include a lock of your hair and sprinkle some of the cars rust on the plate?
Quote from: NGC414 on November 10, 2010, 03:35:16 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on November 10, 2010, 01:33:41 PM
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 10, 2010, 08:28:41 AM
whats going on with the pallet of used parts that was being gone through? anything left? i know i (and lots of others) wouldnt mind having a small momento of this great occasion!! a small piece of the xp hemi framed with a poster shot and an after shot with a few shots of the car being dismantled would be awsome. :2thumbs: so if there is any rust left and bagged up, are we gona sell it???? mabey cut the roof up, or the quarter panels up? just a thought, but it would make a great conversation piece in the car room. :2thumbs:
I'll stop the clean up right away! You guys know it's just trash right?? I mean, it's not like a lock of Elvis' hair or anything!
If you'd like a momento of the show, we will be reducing the price on our Chop Cut Rebuild license plates next week. Let me know if you're a member here and I'll sign them for anyone who requests it. Just add the word "Autographed" in the comments when you purchase. There's a limited number available, so don't "red-light" on this one!
Will you autograph it, include a lock of your hair and sprinkle some of the cars rust on the plate?
I'll be at Hot Rods today tuning he car for PINKS and I'll see what's still kicking aoround the shop. I'll sign it and send it off. But, you should never ask a guy at my age to give up any of his hair!
Dan,
I put all of the scrap parts in a big box - mostly original interior stuff, but some other stuff too. Everything else is for the car's keepsake - restorable originals, etc. Then there are parts to return to me, labeled return to Keisler.
I like the idea of putting pieces of the car in a jar, for souvenoirs! What a great idea - too bad we didn't think about it when we were at Craig's.
Shafi
i want one too :-) I'll take a piece of that car ;)
us mopar people are wierd aren't we ;)
Quote from: KEISLER on November 10, 2010, 07:30:15 PM
Dan,
I put all of the scrap parts in a big box - mostly original interior stuff, but some other stuff too. Everything else is for the car's keepsake - restorable originals, etc. Then there are parts to return to me, labeled return to Keisler.
I like the idea of putting pieces of the car in a jar, for souvenoirs! What a great idea - too bad we didn't think about it when we were at Craig's.
Shafi
Shafi... I got some rusted T5 parts if you wanna fake it. Make ya a great deal :cheers:
Folks,
Most of the stuff left over here in California are mechanicals and interior parts, door handles, cranks, original steering column, wheel, etc... Old sheet metal; which would be the best thing to frame, stayed behind at Craig Hopkins shop in Georgia. I'll send him an email to see if he has kept any of it. If so, we can probably work something out. He'll need to send it to me so I can sign it before shipping it out to those interested. We do have the original lower valance, if Shafi doesn't want it back, we could cut it up for you all.
Cheers,
Dan
dibs :)
first!
Quote from: ccr-host on November 11, 2010, 12:56:54 PM
Folks,
Most of the stuff left over here in California are mechanicals and interior parts, door handles, cranks, original steering column, wheel, etc... Old sheet metal; which would be the best thing to frame, stayed behind at Craig Hopkins shop in Georgia. I'll send him an email to see if he has kept any of it. If so, we can probably work something out. He'll need to send it to me so I can sign it before shipping it out to those interested. We do have the original lower valance, if Shafi doesn't want it back, we could cut it up for you all.
Cheers,
Dan
cut that sucker up... :o
it would be fun ;D
Dan & the Chop Cut Rebuild Gang,
Episode 5 was another excellent show. I'm recording all of them along with other shows on SPEED, SPIKE. You are TOPS man!
Shafi
Just caught the RMS suspension install episode tonite. Can't wait until the body & paint episodes start airing. :2thumbs:
Hey Dan, are these episodes gonna be available to those of us who aren't blessed with cable/Foxtel on DVD?
Quote from: ccr-host on October 23, 2010, 09:52:46 PM
Sorry folks, the show is not available on the internet. CCR is sold to other broadcasters around the world such as FOX Sports Australia, Discovery UK, and many others. Putting full episodes on the net before those broadcasters have a chance to air them would harm the potential audience size in those markets. To their credit, SPEED gives viewers ample opportunities to see the shows in reruns throughout the week. They are also playing the previous weeks episodes as a lead-in for the next while, so you now have a full hour of CCR on Saturday's. We also make DVD's of the series available one year after SPEED has premiered the shows. You can purchase them on our site. People here may find our 5th season interesting, in it we document the build of the Goodmark Cuda throughout the season. We also add some extra "behind the scenes" features and a follow along commentary on the final episode.
Thanks for watching! Glad you are all enjoying the show. Feel free to post any questions you have here or on the SPEED site.
Best regards,
Dan Woods
He already covered that question
That was soooooooooo many pages ago.....
really doc like u have nothing else to do. :smilielol: i made one copy on vhs, guess if the wife could handle it, i could make another if ya have vhs.let me know.
Is this car going to be in Chicago this coming weekend? I saw Keisler as a sponsor of the Muscle Car show in the Chi-town suburbs :popcrn:
Quote from: XS29L9Bxxxxxx on November 15, 2010, 09:49:19 PM
Is this car going to be in Chicago this coming weekend? I saw Keisler as a sponsor of the Muscle Car show in the Chi-town suburbs :popcrn:
Sorry, no. The Charger will be racing against the Corvette at Pinks All Out in Arizona, at Firebird Raceway on Saturday. This is the last filming day for Chop Cut Rebuild. The results will be interesting!
Quote from: ccr-host on November 16, 2010, 12:54:59 AM
Quote from: XS29L9Bxxxxxx on November 15, 2010, 09:49:19 PM
Is this car going to be in Chicago this coming weekend? I saw Keisler as a sponsor of the Muscle Car show in the Chi-town suburbs :popcrn:
Sorry, no. The Charger will be racing against the Corvette at Pinks All Out in Arizona, at Firebird Raceway on Saturday. This is the last filming day for Chop Cut Rebuild. The results will be interesting!
Dan,
Will you post the results or make us wait for the show?
The hemi should win if it can hook up, the vett has everything else in it's favor :slap: :slap:
My guess is it will take 3 races to decide the winner, it just makes for better TV... :icon_smile_big:
Wait for the show!!
Check out Chop Cut Rebuild's Facebook page and watch webisodes 1 - 5.
http://www.facebook.com/WASproductions?ref=ts
Funny stuff not shown on the TV show and gives you some insight as to what is going on each episode.
This weekend is the big race, but I'm planning to be at MCACN. rats...
mising your own car rippin on the vette (hopefully) how could you miss it? :shruggy: thank goodness for video :yesnod:
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 16, 2010, 01:21:47 PM
mising your own car rippin on the vette (hopefully) how could you miss it? :shruggy: thank goodness for video :yesnod:
We'll try to tempt him to fly down for the day! Maybe a pass in his car would do the trick?
Quote from: ccr-host on November 16, 2010, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 16, 2010, 01:21:47 PM
mising your own car rippin on the vette (hopefully) how could you miss it? :shruggy: thank goodness for video :yesnod:
We'll try to tempt him to fly down for the day! Maybe a pass in his car would do the trick?
:drool5: :drool5: :drool5:
are they filming a complete pinks all out that day? so this could end up on that episode also, or is this a special added tid bit for the crowd and will only view with ccr?
Quote from: nvrbdn on November 16, 2010, 02:16:30 PM
are they filming a complete pinks all out that day? so this could end up on that episode also, or is this a special added tid bit for the crowd and will only view with ccr?
We're running in the exhibition round between qualifying and selections. If we entered the two cars as PAO competitors, they likely wouldn't get a head to head pass. This way, we're guarenteed to have them run against each other. We were hoping to get them featured in "Pinks All Outakes", but they've cancelled that show.
We're all set to run. Fired it up last night and it sounded like a rocket. Exhaust is off. Suspention tightened. Console removed. Power steering disconnected. Our driver will be... Oh, I can't give away everything! ;)
Hope to see some of you in Chandler, Arizona at Firebird Raceway!
Dan, have ya grown a bit of a soft spot in your heart for this XP-Hemi!? You spent a lot of time answering our questions here and I don't image every car you have done has gotten this much of your attention!
Quote from: Sydmoe on November 18, 2010, 07:53:35 PM
Dan, have ya grown a bit of a soft spot in your heart for this XP-Hemi!? You spent a lot of time answering our questions here and I don't image every car you have done has gotten this much of your attention!
Yeah, I guess I have. But, the Charger or the Vette would look good in my driveway!
"Pinks All Out" Update:
The nail biting began today! While waiting to make its first 1/4 mile run at Firebird Raceway in Phoenix, the Charger was denied the opportunity to make a practice pass by track officials in the staging lanes. Track staff spotted a fuel leak and made the driver return it to the pits. Since it's return from SEMA the mechanical fuel pump was replaced with an electric pump. A complete MSD ignition system has been installed and the exhaust has been removed so it will run on open TTI headers. Fuel is not leaking when the car is idling however, it is dripping when the car is in motion from the tank area. The crew will be working overnight to drop the tank and see if a seal on the tank is not set right or is cracked... With no practice passes, the Charger will be prepaired to run cold - heads up against the CSOC Corvette. The Vette enjoyed two runs today and a best time of 12.7 seconds on solo passes. After both passes, the Corvette driver complained of a slow and sticking clutch pedal, which forced him to skip 3rd gear on his first pass.. The Corvette's clutch is stock and was not changed as part of its rebuild, which means it may be slipping. This could make for a VERY interesting day on Saturday!
Wow... I've got to learn how to properly spell "Phoenix" ...and a couple of other words too! :brickwall:
Quote from: ccr-host on November 20, 2010, 03:17:17 AM
Wow... I've got to learn how to properly spell "Phoenix" ...and a couple of other words too! :brickwall:
Looks right to me. :scratchchin:
This AM's episode of CCR was a repeat of the first episode in the series......nothing new this week? :shruggy:
Good luck with the race. And get those crazy thoughts about the Vette in your driveway out of your head. Hasn't the passion for Chargers around this site taught you anything? Charger ownership is a disease without cure.
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 20, 2010, 08:47:50 AM
This AM's episode of CCR was a repeat of the first episode in the series......nothing new this week? :shruggy:
This week was a planned re-airng to get people who may have found the show into the season a chance to understand the cars origins. A new episode will start next Saturday.
DAY 2 AT Pinks All Out:
Should be an interesting day. The Charger crew will be working frantically to get the fuel issue solved. If not... no racing for them today!
Quote from: ccr-host on November 20, 2010, 02:56:00 AM
"Pinks All Out" Update:
The nail biting began today! While waiting to make its first 1/4 mile run at Firebird Raceway in Phoenix, the Charger was denied the opportunity to make a practice pass by track officials in the staging lanes. Track staff spotted a fuel leak and made the driver return it to the pits. Since it's return from SEMA the mechanical fuel pump was replaced with an electric pump. A complete MSD ignition system has been installed and the exhaust has been removed so it will run on open TTI headers. Fuel is not leaking when the car is idling however, it is dripping when the car is in motion from the tank area. The crew will be working overnight to drop the tank and see if a seal on the tank is not set right or is cracked... With no practice passes, the Charger will be prepaired to run cold - heads up against the CSOC Corvette. The Vette enjoyed two runs today and a best time of 12.7 seconds on solo passes. After both passes, the Corvette driver complained of a slow and sticking clutch pedal, which forced him to skip 3rd gear on his first pass.. The Corvette's clutch is stock and was not changed as part of its rebuild, which means it may be slipping. This could make for a VERY interesting day on Saturday!
If your running a stock tank you don't have to drop the tank to replace the seal at the sending unit. (FYI) Car looks Awesome BTY. :2thumbs:
Quote from: ccr-host on November 20, 2010, 11:34:27 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 20, 2010, 08:47:50 AM
This AM's episode of CCR was a repeat of the first episode in the series......nothing new this week? :shruggy:
This week was a planned re-airng to get people who may have found the show into the season a chance to understand the cars origins. A new episode will start next Saturday.
Ok I guess I didn't miss anything then. That 8:00 am is early for a Saturday. :yesnod:
Quote from: ccr-host on November 20, 2010, 11:34:27 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 20, 2010, 08:47:50 AM
This AM's episode of CCR was a repeat of the first episode in the series......nothing new this week? :shruggy:
This week was a planned re-airng to get people who may have found the show into the season a chance to understand the cars origins. A new episode will start next Saturday.
Thats good because it was the only episode I missed!! :cheers:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 20, 2010, 12:44:58 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on November 20, 2010, 11:34:27 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on November 20, 2010, 08:47:50 AM
This AM's episode of CCR was a repeat of the first episode in the series......nothing new this week? :shruggy:
This week was a planned re-airng to get people who may have found the show into the season a chance to understand the cars origins. A new episode will start next Saturday.
Thats good because it was the only episode I missed!! :cheers:
You see? SPEED Channel is your friend.
What show is this showdown planned to air on,CCR or Pinks?
Quote from: UFO on November 20, 2010, 11:34:29 PM
What show is this showdown planned to air on,CCR or Pinks?
It will happen in our final episode (#13). Scheduled air date is late Jan. or early Feb.
I finally recorded an episode on the weekend and was thinking it is alot like the work that went into my car, metal wise. I look forward to seeing more of the episodes :cheers:
Hey Dan, why did you send the Dana 60 back to curry to have the tabs welded on?
so then shafi are we still going to get a final show???? since the last show was to be running at pinks that didnt take place, why not take time and do it all right, then get a track and a victim. and line em up and give us all a show. :shruggy: course im sure it would be an expence to all to get this done, but i would love to see the car run. or at least a final show roasting the tires in a parking lot with the whole crew that was involved in the build. just a thought.
Hi all,
Yes, we had a number of challenges with the Charger at PINKS ALL OUT. I can tell you it is everything it's advertised to be. Powerfull and impressive.
There's been some great challenges to building this car. Rushing to a deadline is always stressfull. But, it all makes great television!
Quote from: thedodgeboys on November 23, 2010, 02:27:49 AM
Hey Dan, why did you send the Dana 60 back to curry to have the tabs welded on?
Currie asked to weld the tabs in-house to be certain the heat didn't warp the axel tubes.
That sux!.....no new episode of CCR this weekend! :icon_smile_angry:
really. i kept checkin around thinking the dvr just missed it or something :smilielol:
I believe they're airing a new episode this weekend.
Enjoy!
I'm watching the episode of CCR right now. They are installing a new steering column, removing the steering wheel.
It appears this new column has the keyset in the column, a la 1970 rather than in the dash, as per 1968-1969.
Could you verify this, and explain the rationale behind this modification?
Aside from the Charger half of the show... I found the segments on the older Vettes much more interesting than the entire CSOC project itself. :Twocents:
Quote from: Magnumcharger on December 04, 2010, 08:24:51 AM
I'm watching the episode of CCR right now. They are installing a new steering column, removing the steering wheel.
It appears this new column has the keyset in the column, a la 1970 rather than in the dash, as per 1968-1969.
Could you verify this, and explain the rationale behind this modification?
Noticed that as well....another '69 specific feature gone.
It was really painful watching those Chevy guys butcher that poor steering wheel & column.....you need to remove the center plastic medallion first to gain access to the center horn pad nut....not pry it off with a screwdriver!!!
No shop manuals available on the build? :rotz:
I watched the show today too.Whats with the keyset column? We all know it should be on the dash. :shruggy: :Twocents:
Been watching the show, pretty informative. Too bad its going to be almost all amd sheetmetal, not much of the real sheetmetal/soul of the car left. LOL
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 04, 2010, 09:06:27 AM
Quote from: Magnumcharger on December 04, 2010, 08:24:51 AM
I'm watching the episode of CCR right now. They are installing a new steering column, removing the steering wheel.
It appears this new column has the keyset in the column, a la 1970 rather than in the dash, as per 1968-1969.
Could you verify this, and explain the rationale behind this modification?
Noticed that as well....another '69 specific feature gone.
It was really painful watching those Chevy guys butcher that poor steering wheel & column.....you need to remove the center plastic medallion first to gain access to the center horn pad nut....not pry it off with a screwdriver!!!
No shop manuals available on the build? :rotz:
If we refer to earlier posted pics from SEMA, well, yeah. key column.
Otherwise ... actual shop manuals at a shop? ??? :lol: You should know better ::) :brickwall:
Edit: I resized the pic to help the scroll challenged.
They should have added this steering wheel while they were at it
Not directly applicable...but interesting anyway:
(note '68-style bumper guards, black door button.)
1969 Dodge Charger & Miss American Teen-Ager
Fran Garten of Great Neck, New York poses here with the official car of the 9th Annual Miss American Teen-Ager beauty pageant, which she won. The pageant was held at Palisades Amusement Park, New Jersey.
Quote from: Magnumcharger on December 04, 2010, 06:24:03 PM
Not directly applicable...but interesting anyway:
(note '68-style bumper guards, black door button.)
1969 Dodge Charger & Miss American Teen-Ager
Fran Garten of Great Neck, New York poses here with the official car of the 9th Annual Miss American Teen-Ager beauty pageant, which she won. The pageant was held at Palisades Amusement Park, New Jersey.
Very cool picture!!
Those bumper guards came on '69's as well though.....
Yep, my 69 had them.
I watched that episode today. What did they do with the 1968-69 dash since they used a 1970 style keyed column? Hopefully they changed the lower panel.
If you check the pic above you can see they left the lower panel the same with the keyhole intact. I don't think the project is really about a restoration so much as an auto parts showcase. Think of it as an infomercial for us car geeks.
I checked the picture.....it had to be dragged right to see.
The collumn looks totally out of place in that otherwise nice interior :eek2:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 04, 2010, 09:06:27 AM
Quote from: Magnumcharger on December 04, 2010, 08:24:51 AM
I'm watching the episode of CCR right now. They are installing a new steering column, removing the steering wheel.
It appears this new column has the keyset in the column, a la 1970 rather than in the dash, as per 1968-1969.
Could you verify this, and explain the rationale behind this modification?
Noticed that as well....another '69 specific feature gone.
It was really painful watching those Chevy guys butcher that poor steering wheel & column.....you need to remove the center plastic medallion first to gain access to the center horn pad nut....not pry it off with a screwdriver!!!
No shop manuals available on the build? :rotz:
There's a shop manual available? Damn!! :brickwall:
Actually, we intended to change the column but, just ran out of time before SEMA. Flaming River is working on an earlier model column and we've been promised the first one out of the jig, when it's ready. The car's ignition is wired to the dash key.
I'd like to see more pictures of the Charger at SEMA.
Does anybody have any? (Preferably LARGE ones!)
And another magazine cover...from way back when!
Quote from: lexxman on December 04, 2010, 12:20:36 PM
I watched the show today too.Whats with the keyset column? We all know it should be on the dash. :shruggy: :Twocents:
That's what happens when you get free parts... :eek2: :slap:
Dan,
Was this that shops first build of this type of project?
I mean no really good tools until this episode, last one no spot weld cutter just a grinder to remove the bump stops a crappy welder also. Watch the background in the shots it's pretty baron along the walls :Twocents:
Quote from: thedodgeboys on December 07, 2010, 05:22:29 AM
Quote from: lexxman on December 04, 2010, 12:20:36 PM
I watched the show today too.Whats with the keyset column? We all know it should be on the dash. :shruggy: :Twocents:
That's what happens when you get free parts... :eek2: :slap:
Dan,
Was this that shops first build of this type of project?
I mean no really good tools until this episode, last one no spot weld cutter just a grinder to remove the bump stops a crappy welder also. Watch the background in the shots it's pretty baron along the walls :Twocents:
Hot Rods has been a fixture in Norco for many years. The company has been through 3 ownerships and Josh is the new owner; he took over about 8 months ago. The original owner had a rockin' business that most everyone in the area remembers. It's where you went to get the latest accessories and speed parts. However, the 2nd owner turned it into a bit of a Hot Rod Club House. Not doing much in the way of repairs, or selling of speed parts, and keeping the inventory very low. Josh is trying to revive the original image of the place.
This is the first Mopar the Hot Rods team has done. Josh was very excited to participate and get his new company back on the map as a repair and speed facility. The early episodes have some barren walls because the business was really just starting up when we arrived. The work in Georgia was good timing as he was sorting through a big mess back at his shop. As we move along in the season, you'll see more and more tools and equipment arrive. Josh and Brad are great guys and they put their heart and soul into the Charger with long hours and hard work. Combined with getting the new business up and running, it's been a very big task. I'm very proud of the effort they made. It was an education for them and for us too.
I have a couple of pics that are pretty funny (in hindsight) that some of you may appreciate. If someone who knows how to post them PM's me, I'll send them via email.
These pics are of an event that happened at Hot Rods about three weeks into filming... What's that old saying? "If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all"?
That makes a lot of sense thanks for explaining it for me. :icon_smile_big:
I hope the new owners has much success making a go of it in this crazy economy. :2thumbs:
pm sent
I have to agree the majority of the car has turned out stunning but that steering column looks like fido's ass in that beautiful tan interior.
Quote from: dodgert68 on December 07, 2010, 08:10:31 PM
I have to agree the majority of the car has turned out stunning but that steering column looks like fido's ass in that beautiful tan interior.
We'll change it!!!!
I promise! ::) ;)
We're pretty uptight here huh Dan? :lol: You have to remember though that as far as we are concerned, the Charger is likely the single perfect example of auto styling to ever come out. Changes are not suffered lightly. ;)
Quote from: Ghoste on December 07, 2010, 09:11:25 PM
We're pretty uptight here huh Dan? :lol: You have to remember though that as far as we are concerned, the Charger is likely the single perfect example of auto styling to ever come out. Changes are not suffered lightly. ;)
I'm not pleased with the look. It's definetly for a 70 and up. But, it's a very good column. The tilt is a great feature - gives you a good view of the gages! It would work and look perfect for a 70 and up. We've got some options to look at still.
Quote from: ccr-host on December 07, 2010, 11:43:03 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on December 07, 2010, 09:11:25 PM
We're pretty uptight here huh Dan? :lol: You have to remember though that as far as we are concerned, the Charger is likely the single perfect example of auto styling to ever come out. Changes are not suffered lightly. ;)
I'm not pleased with the look. It's definetly for a 70 and up. But, it's a very good column. The tilt is a great feature - gives you a good view of the gages! It would work and look perfect for a 70 and up. We've got some options to look at still.
I need a good 70 column :whistling:
Quote from: ccr-host on December 07, 2010, 11:43:03 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on December 07, 2010, 09:11:25 PM
We're pretty uptight here huh Dan? :lol: You have to remember though that as far as we are concerned, the Charger is likely the single perfect example of auto styling to ever come out. Changes are not suffered lightly. ;)
I'm not pleased with the look. It's definetly for a 70 and up. But, it's a very good column. The tilt is a great feature - gives you a good view of the gages! It would work and look perfect for a 70 and up. We've got some options to look at still.
XV motorsports has a tilt / no key column already available... choice of finishes. http://www.xvmotorsports.com/products/detail/index.cfm?nPID=205&cid=104&cdesc=Steering%20Columns
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on December 08, 2010, 11:55:05 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 07, 2010, 11:43:03 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on December 07, 2010, 09:11:25 PM
We're pretty uptight here huh Dan? :lol: You have to remember though that as far as we are concerned, the Charger is likely the single perfect example of auto styling to ever come out. Changes are not suffered lightly. ;)
I'm not pleased with the look. It's definetly for a 70 and up. But, it's a very good column. The tilt is a great feature - gives you a good view of the gages! It would work and look perfect for a 70 and up. We've got some options to look at still.
XV motorsports has a tilt / no key column already available... choice of finishes. http://www.xvmotorsports.com/products/detail/index.cfm?nPID=205&cid=104&cdesc=Steering%20Columns
Thanks Brian,
I've put a call into Flaming River and they're going to see what we can do. I want to keep the original wheel on the car and make it look date accurate. I think FR will have a solution for us.
:popcrn:
I checked out Flaming Rivers web site. They seem to have a lot of very nice products. One thing that kinda stuck out was they seem to be more chevy than anything. At least that appears to be the cars they highlight all over their site. Nothing different though from most suppliers. Chevy is usually the bread and butter and us Mopar guys are always the last on the list. Unless of course you are dealing with a company that specializes in Mopar or has a owner, like Shafi, who is a mopar guy at heart!
from Dan Woods CCR Host
These are photo's of a customer's car that drove through the storefront at Hot Rods about 3 weeks after we started filming there. I watched the guy pull up, come to a stop against the parking block, then saw his right tire start to spin and smoke... next thing you know, he's through the front window! Poor guy, he just bought the car and was bringing it in to have it looked at. He said he felt the gas pedal was sticking a little bit. Boy, the challenges you face in starting a business now, huh?...Just amazing!
Cheers,
Dan
(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/thedodgeboy/HotRodsnewdrivethru.jpg)
(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/thedodgeboy/HotRodsnewdrivethru3.jpg)
(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/thedodgeboy/HotRodsnewdrivethru2.jpg)
(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/thedodgeboy/HotRodsexpandsitsparking.jpg)
Its amazing what one can find on the net Dan. :coolgleamA:
(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/thedodgeboy/interviewwithdanwoods_0100.jpg)
Degrassi Jr. High :smilielol:
Quote from: ccr-host on December 08, 2010, 02:02:15 PM
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on December 08, 2010, 11:55:05 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 07, 2010, 11:43:03 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on December 07, 2010, 09:11:25 PM
We're pretty uptight here huh Dan? :lol: You have to remember though that as far as we are concerned, the Charger is likely the single perfect example of auto styling to ever come out. Changes are not suffered lightly. ;)
I'm not pleased with the look. It's definetly for a 70 and up. But, it's a very good column. The tilt is a great feature - gives you a good view of the gages! It would work and look perfect for a 70 and up. We've got some options to look at still.
XV motorsports has a tilt / no key column already available... choice of finishes. http://www.xvmotorsports.com/products/detail/index.cfm?nPID=205&cid=104&cdesc=Steering%20Columns
Thanks Brian,
I've put a call into Flaming River and they're going to see what we can do. I want to keep the original wheel on the car and make it look date accurate. I think FR will have a solution for us.
I used an Ididit in my challenger its also the company that makes them for XV they have ones without keys if you wish.
http://ididitinc.com/retrofit_columns/70_74_cuda-challenger_fs.html
Oh man ,the guy must have wanted to crawl under a rock anf hide. :yesnod:
Quote from: lexxman on December 08, 2010, 08:46:20 PM
Oh man ,the guy must have wanted to crawl under a rock anf hide. :yesnod:
The driver was not having a good day, that's for sure. It got worse when he saw two professional cameramen and an audio boom come running around the corner! The lesson... Don't smash through a window while a film crew is on site.
Nice pic there Scott... Ah the Degrassi memories are flooding back! :D
I guess I'm too late to win any "Movember" competitions, right?
There's always next year. ;D
You could use it as your profile picture Dan :slap:
I hope you don't mind ;) looks like a great show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Geu2PgJqaV8 :D
Quote from: thedodgeboys on December 08, 2010, 09:06:47 PM
You could use it as your profile picture Dan :slap:
I hope you don't mind ;) looks like a great show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Geu2PgJqaV8 :D
Well, it did win an Emmy for "Best Children's Series" when I was on it. I don't mind at all. That was in 1986 (for those keeping score). Degrassi is seen in over 40 countries. If only CCR had half that success, I'd be able to get my clothes out of the Dry Cleaners and maybe buy a puppy!
Dan if you do a few more MOPAR cars you would get there buddy! :2thumbs:
Quote from: ccr-host on December 08, 2010, 09:59:07 PM
Quote from: thedodgeboys on December 08, 2010, 09:06:47 PM
You could use it as your profile picture Dan :slap:
I hope you don't mind ;) looks like a great show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Geu2PgJqaV8 :D
Well, it did win an Emmy for "Best Children's Series" when I was on it. I don't mind at all. That was in 1986 (for those keeping score). Degrassi is seen in over 40 countries. If only CCR had half that success, I'd be able to get my clothes out of the Dry Cleaners and maybe buy a puppy!
Come do a show down here in Oz Dan.
There's always plenty of puppies to see too........
Quote from: doctor4766 on December 09, 2010, 03:00:26 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 08, 2010, 09:59:07 PM
Quote from: thedodgeboys on December 08, 2010, 09:06:47 PM
You could use it as your profile picture Dan :slap:
I hope you don't mind ;) looks like a great show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Geu2PgJqaV8 :D
Well, it did win an Emmy for "Best Children's Series" when I was on it. I don't mind at all. That was in 1986 (for those keeping score). Degrassi is seen in over 40 countries. If only CCR had half that success, I'd be able to get my clothes out of the Dry Cleaners and maybe buy a puppy!
Come do a show down here in Oz Dan.
There's always plenty of puppies to see too........
Yes, I'm aware of the puppies there! Not too many dogs though! ;)
Oh yeah, we have our fair share of them too Danno, don't you all be worryin' bout that.
Wow, you were a real hard ass. ;)
Reminds me of a class I was in my senior year, mechanical drawing. I took another students drawing, erased the letter box & put mine in.
I always had the best numerical writing skills in class. I was graded my normal high on that but my scores were way lower than the author's drawing.
I did it for the same reason the kids in the You Tube video did, to prove the teacher was stereotyping me. That teacher ruined any hope I had for continuing into architecture.
Sorry for the hijack. That video brought back memories.
CCR is doing all 7 episodes in a row today on speedchannel starting at noon here in the midwest. :2thumbs: whos plymouth you driving to legendary dan? and the 69 rt backdrop is beautiful :2thumbs:
Whats with the seam sealer on the underside? these cars had all there seam sealer applied to the inside seams. Did the Charger get undercoated?
Quote from: nvrbdn on December 11, 2010, 09:16:59 AM
CCR is doing all 7 episodes in a row today on speedchannel starting at noon here in the midwest. :2thumbs: whos plymouth you driving to legendary dan? and the 69 rt backdrop is beautiful :2thumbs:
Yes, it's true. Speed will be running a CCR Marathon today beginning at 1pm eastern / 10am pacific time. Every episode re-aired. Time for me to go Christmas shopping!
Enjoy!!
The Plymouth I drove at Legendary belongs to one of the staff, I believe. I actually had a perfect replica of our car available that day too. But, we thought if might create a little confusion and some people would think it was the XP all finished. Too bad I didn't get to drive it - it was beautiful.
Quote from: ccr-host on December 11, 2010, 11:39:35 AM
The Plymouth I drove at Legendary belongs to one of the staff, I believe. I actually had a perfect replica of our car available that day too. But, we thought if might create a little confusion and some people would think it was the XP all finished. Too bad I didn't get to drive it - it was beautiful.
Dan, always wondered who picked the cars you get to "drive into" each segment with? Is there a contest or just people "in the know" get their cars shown on TV?
Quote from: ccr-host on December 11, 2010, 11:39:35 AM
Quote from: nvrbdn on December 11, 2010, 09:16:59 AM
CCR is doing all 7 episodes in a row today on speedchannel starting at noon here in the midwest. :2thumbs: whos plymouth you driving to legendary dan? and the 69 rt backdrop is beautiful :2thumbs:
Yes, it's true. Speed will be running a CCR Marathon today beginning at 1pm eastern / 10am pacific time. Every episode re-aired. Time for me to go Christmas shopping!
Enjoy!!
The Plymouth I drove at Legendary belongs to one of the staff, I believe. I actually had a perfect replica of our car available that day too. But, we thought if might create a little confusion and some people would think it was the XP all finished. Too bad I didn't get to drive it - it was beautiful.
Thanks for the info Dan. I just changed back to Cox from ATT&T again a ::) so I lost all my DVR'ed episodes as of yesterday. I have it on now to see what I missed :2thumbs:
...there have been several episodes on for the past hour ++ and it's still on now @ 6:30 EST on SPEED
Why can`t we get sneak pis`s huh huh what gives :shruggy: !
Quote from: HOTROD on December 11, 2010, 09:23:17 PM
Why can`t we get sneak pis`s huh huh what gives :shruggy: !
Pics of the completed car?
Go back about 10 or so pages & theres all the pics you want
thanks !
I don't have the desire to read 24 pages & I don't know whether it's been brought up before, but it's plain to see that 99% of this vehicle is not the original car. This brings up the point of when is a car considered to be a kit-car versus a restored car? From what I can see, this car is being "restored" around a very small percentage of the original ca and I don't care how the car is going to be presented, it isn't the same car as in the 1969 pictures.
Quote from: Richard Cranium on December 12, 2010, 07:37:59 AM
I don't have the desire to read 24 pages & I don't know whether it's been brought up before, but it's plain to see that 99% of this vehicle is not the original car. This brings up the point of when is a car considered to be a kit-car versus a restored car? From what I can see, this car is being "restored" around a very small percentage of the original ca and I don't care how the car is going to be presented, it isn't the same car as in the 1969 pictures.
Believe me, that issue has been well covered. If you feel strongly about the subject, you should take the time to go back to about page 12 when they posted some pics of what they used from the original car. There were some good arguments from either side of the re-skinned vs. restored debate from that point forward.
True, and once you see what has been achieved from what little was actually left of the car it's your call as to whether the car should have been scrapped or given a new lease on life like the team at CCR, AMD and of course the owner have done.
Quote from: Sydmoe on December 12, 2010, 08:12:43 AM
Quote from: Richard Cranium on December 12, 2010, 07:37:59 AM
I don't have the desire to read 24 pages & I don't know whether it's been brought up before, but it's plain to see that 99% of this vehicle is not the original car. This brings up the point of when is a car considered to be a kit-car versus a restored car? From what I can see, this car is being "restored" around a very small percentage of the original ca and I don't care how the car is going to be presented, it isn't the same car as in the 1969 pictures.
Believe me, that issue has been well covered. If you feel strongly about the subject, you should take the time to go back to about page 12 when they posted some pics of what they used from the original car. There were some good arguments from either side of the re-skinned vs. restored debate from that point forward.
Well, I guess if you want to spend enough money, you can "restore" a car from a pair of door hinges. :-\
On a related note; I read that 1500 man hours went into that car. It would be curious to find out how much the final tab was on the car & how much was donated. I'm sure the cost far exceeds the value, but no matter what, I'm sure that it's all a business deduction to Keisler.
You're better off to just take the road I did and accept it as infomercial television with a Charger instead of any of the other crap on the air. Yes, the car is a recreation with the original VIN and some other numbers but it's still an interesting Charger footnote and worth recreating. I'm enjoying it and the work they are doing is fantastic.
It is still tv and meant as entertainment and/or a vehicle to sell products. I keep in mind that the cast of the reality show "Survivor" are never in any actual peril.
I am following this and if they release it on dvd I will no doubt buy the set because of the car but next season I will likely tune into something else. :shruggy: (hmm, the snow outside my window must be making me all cranky :D )
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 11, 2010, 11:49:22 AM
Dan, always wondered who picked the cars you get to "drive into" each segment with? Is there a contest or just people "in the know" get their cars shown on TV?
I've always wondered that also. :shruggy:
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 12, 2010, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 11, 2010, 11:49:22 AM
Dan, always wondered who picked the cars you get to "drive into" each segment with? Is there a contest or just people "in the know" get their cars shown on TV?
I've always wondered that also. :shruggy:
I am the wealthiest man in the world and I own every one of those cars! But, there is a rumour our there that the cars belong to customers and friends of the shops where we're shooting... But, that's just a rumour. I prefer the money story! :2thumbs:
Quote from: Richard Cranium on December 12, 2010, 12:16:06 PM
Quote from: Sydmoe on December 12, 2010, 08:12:43 AM
Quote from: Richard Cranium on December 12, 2010, 07:37:59 AM
I don't have the desire to read 24 pages & I don't know whether it's been brought up before, but it's plain to see that 99% of this vehicle is not the original car. This brings up the point of when is a car considered to be a kit-car versus a restored car? From what I can see, this car is being "restored" around a very small percentage of the original ca and I don't care how the car is going to be presented, it isn't the same car as in the 1969 pictures.
Believe me, that issue has been well covered. If you feel strongly about the subject, you should take the time to go back to about page 12 when they posted some pics of what they used from the original car. There were some good arguments from either side of the re-skinned vs. restored debate from that point forward.
Well, I guess if you want to spend enough money, you can "restore" a car from a pair of door hinges. :-\
On a related note; I read that 1500 man hours went into that car. It would be curious to find out how much the final tab was on the car & how much was donated. I'm sure the cost far exceeds the value, but no matter what, I'm sure that it's all a business deduction to Keisler.
The purpose of the exercise was to see how far gone a car can be without being lost forever. We've been very up front about what has been saved and what has been replaced. The substructure of the car is still fairly intact from what went down the assembly line in 1968. But, the exterior metal is all new. We also acquired a great deal of NOS parts from Ted Stephens, which hasn't been seen on the series yet. Either way you look at it, as a kit/crate or a restoration, the priority is to display the quality and availability of parts and services available from the aftermarket. It's certainly about providing information to the audience but, I don't know if I would call it an infomercial. We label it as a documentary. The cost of doing what we're doing, is not the priority. People can always pick and choose what they want to purchase and how extreme they want to go.
Hmm, I don't know if I would call it a documentary exactly either but I can definitely see your point. Maybe it depends what side of the camera you are how you perceive it and the truth is closer to the middle.
I love your show Dan, no matter what kind of car your working on. Its very informative, and just fun to watch. I also like all the different cars that you get to drive. I'll be watching again next season too. Just my :Twocents: Keep up the great work. :2thumbs:
Quote from: ccr-host on December 12, 2010, 09:24:14 PM
The cost of doing what we're doing, is not the priority.
Do you also do work for the Federal government? :smilielol: :eek2:
Quote from: Richard Cranium on December 13, 2010, 06:53:34 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 12, 2010, 09:24:14 PM
The cost of doing what we're doing, is not the priority.
Do you also do work for the Federal government? :smilielol: :eek2:
Sometimes I feel I should have a picture of the President hanging on my office wall with the caption "Good morning Partner! Have you got my check ready"?
:popcrn:
Dan too bad i didn't know you were heading up to Legenday for the day i could have arrainged for you have The Make a Wish 69 Charger available for you to drive on the show. Legendary graciously donated all the interior components for our project. You may have seen the tribute plaque they have in the showroom when you were there.
Quote from: dodgert68 on December 13, 2010, 12:47:18 PM
Dan too bad i didn't know you were heading up to Legenday for the day i could have arrainged for you have The Make a Wish 69 Charger available for you to drive on the show. Legendary graciously donated all the interior components for our project. You may have seen the tribute plaque they have in the showroom when you were there.
Don't mean to hijack this thread but are there any pics of this car? never mind, I found them.
Just thought I would let you all know my producer Edward, just wrote a guest column in this months Automotive Traveler magazine about the Vette build. Some interesting "behind the scenes" stuff... which is an interesting take because CCR is about going behind the scenes of these builds anyway. So, I guess it's a "behind the scenes of a show that takes you behind the scenes". :brickwall:
If any of you are interested, here's a link to the story: http://www.automotivetraveler.com/magazine/viewer.php?path=2010/12/Chop_Cut_Nu-build
Enjoy!
Dan
Cool. What car is in the background of the pic with the camera crew?
Quote from: Ghoste on December 14, 2010, 07:14:11 AM
Cool. What car is in the background of the pic with the camera crew?
You can see the left rear quarter of a Mustang Mach II (green), there's a 63 split window, a 64 Impala (on rotissarie) and through the window of the Impala, you may get a glimpse of a ...69 Charger!
Is that a Charger in the background circled in red?
Yeah, the Charger is the one I thought I spotted. :cheers:
Dan, you told them Chargers aren't made out of fiberglass right!? :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: Sydmoe on December 15, 2010, 12:10:59 AM
Dan, you told them Chargers aren't made out of fiberglass right!? :icon_smile_big:
ROFLMAO. Yeah, I told them. But, they'll try anything once... Hey, they're French! Hard to explain the logic. :D
With production wrapped on Season 7, I'm curious to know what project the Mopar community may like to see next year? Any suggestions? Favorites? Fears? Remember, we only have 7 to 8 months for a build, so nothing too rare please! :popcrn:
Do an Aussie Charger and do it down here.
Oh btw, I have one you can do for me................. :D
How about a ragtop 4-speed? Your choice. My choice would be a '68 Coronet...I love that rear end. :2thumbs:
Dan
yep, i could go with the 68 b body convertable, or if you decide to go a little older, a 65 coronet 500 would be sweet. :2thumbs:
No votes for an "A" body? :eek2:
Actually our Chargers here are A bodies Dan :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: doctor4766 on December 18, 2010, 02:50:12 AM
Actually our Chargers here are A bodies Dan :icon_smile_big:
Sorry! I'm thinking more of the Duster or Demon. Maybe the 340 package?
Quote from: ccr-host on December 18, 2010, 04:24:39 AM
Quote from: doctor4766 on December 18, 2010, 02:50:12 AM
Actually our Chargers here are A bodies Dan :icon_smile_big:
Sorry! I'm thinking more of the Duster or Demon. Maybe the 340 package?
I can see it now a Demon with a 6 pack, 6 cylinder and a 6 speed all flat black and you could nick name it Grimm...
:smilielol:
how about a wing car clone
Sorry! I'm thinking more of the Duster or Demon. Maybe the 340 package?
[/quote]
I can see it now a Demon with a 6 pack, 6 cylinder and a 6 speed all flat black and you could nick name it Grimm...
:smilielol:
[/quote] so what would you call it, the DEMON 6-6-6 .fire from the pipes ,yes slants with headers can sound great.
demon 6 pack,6 banger with 6 speed that gets maga gas milage...
so what to call it--------DEMON 6-6-6 ,with header and flame thrower pipes
"Dont drop it, this is your big break in show business" great line dan. and a 340 demon could be cool too. as long as its a mopar ill be glued to the tv :2thumbs:
total respect to CCR and the owner and sponsor that teamed up to save and create this great car. and to all you overly anal girls on your periods or with your granny pantys in a bunch,take a pill or whole bottle of pills.most of us could never have saved this rust pile and sure never done a total stock resto and save those rusty panals.it was missing all the holy hemi drive train and the rust repair was extreme. yet you girls sit on your asses and bitch bout antenia and wheel trim and wiper blades. what have you save in that bad of shape??????? most would say i own this rare car as it rots totally beyond repair. :Twocents: :brickwall: thanks to ccr and the host,dan for all his time to post and answer all the post here.... thanks dj
But remember it is a discussion forum and the big part of that discussion comes from the fact that we all share different opinions. I for one welcome the fact that we disagree on just about everything except that we all love the Dodge Charger in some form or another. Trying to actually understand the other persons point of view moves us forward in the hobby and as individuals. :Twocents:
As for the restoration experience on this forum, there are some people on here who have done some indescribable back from the dead work. There are several of us who work in the restoration business and from that experience I can damned sure tell you that details like antenna, wheel trim and wiper blades make the difference.
I also very much respect Dan, he has continually come back here and participated in this forum and always from a respectful position even when he was being overwhelmed with negative opinion.
Quote from: djcarguy on December 18, 2010, 09:24:10 AM
total respect to CCR and the owner and sponsor that teamed up to save and create this great car. and to all you overly anal girls on your periods or with your granny pantys in a bunch,take a pill or whole bottle of pills.most of you or us could never have saved this rust pile and sure never done a total stock resto and save those rusty panals.it was missing all the holy hemi drive train and the rust repair was extreme. yet you girls sit on your asses and bitch bout antenia and wheel trim and wiper blades. what have you save in that bad of shape??????? most would say i own this rare car as it rots totally beyond repair. :Twocents: :brickwall: thanks to ccr and the host,dan for all his time to post and answer all the post here.... thanks dj
You need to search the forum and see what people have done before you state what people can and can't do. There is several members on here that have and could have done this. There is some females on the site too so take it up with them....but we get kind of defensive on how people are treated on here. :slap:
Quote from: djcarguy on December 18, 2010, 09:24:10 AM
total respect to CCR and the owner and sponsor that teamed up to save and create this great car. and to all you overly anal girls on your periods or with your granny panties in a bunch,take a pill or whole bottle of pills.most of you or us could never have saved this rust pile and sure never done a total stock resto and save those rusty panals.it was missing all the holy hemi drive train and the rust repair was extreme. yet you girls sit on your asses and bitch bout antenia and wheel trim and wiper blades. what have you save in that bad of shape??????? most would say i own this rare car as it rots totally beyond repair. :Twocents: :brickwall: thanks to ccr and the host,dan for all his time to post and answer all the post here.... thanks dj
Yes,it would have been a lot of work to try and restore this car without AMD and alot of people would have called it a parts car( or junk).But its funny how their talking about something have to be put back to stock and other things is (what can we fit there). Yes things like a brake upgrade would be a good thing. And there are a lot of different schools of thought here,and for sitting on our asses.Most of us on here are or have restored one of these cars from stock to far from stock,so don't get your panties in a bunch. :Twocents:
I like to show alot and yes,Dan and the guys have been doing great. And Ill keep waching.:2thumbs:
Quote from: hemi24 on November 08, 2010, 02:13:46 PM
It would be fantastic if the original 426 block could be found to put back with the CCR car but i guess that would be wishful thinking i seen it happen a few times off this website. :Twocents:
I thought the engine currently in the CCR Charger IS the original engine? They were talking about having the original numbers matching VINs stamped on the block.
No original drivetrain in the car when it was found.
Quote from: Blakcharger440 on December 18, 2010, 12:24:30 PM
Quote from: hemi24 on November 08, 2010, 02:13:46 PM
It would be fantastic if the original 426 block could be found to put back with the CCR car but i guess that would be wishful thinking i seen it happen a few times off this website. :Twocents:
I thought the engine currently in the CCR Charger IS the original engine? They were talking about having the original numbers matching VINs stamped on the block.
No not NOM, the original engine is long gone. Without searching I belive I remember the car had a 440 in it when they found it.
hey GHoste did i name you,no.i was agreeing with most all of your vin and eng #post.i only have seen the show where it gets to the shop and some teardown.only saw finished pics here,this morning. i like to see good complete cars restored, and at 51 years old think it is totally find to take a rusty shell that is missing major parts and have fun and make a hot rod and drive the wheels off and build it again .i always try to keep the body un cut.
like your ride and the movie cmdl .there is a place for stock and modified in my world.i never had the big dollar cars to be concered with date code head lights and belts.have been to shows with my 67 gtx ragtop that i got for 300 back in 85,and my buddies 69 superbee. and these know it all asses tear into both cars over the color changes and stupid little things that are non correct or stock. both our cars are driven and drag raced and non trailored...
have non posted much.have read most of the builds and only found one the white daytona that seems close to the work that ccr did to save this rusted shell... really like the white daytona and great respect for his vision and ablyity to save that shell and make a great car. if you saw my cars you would see no sheep or cookie cutter cars here.i build with what i can afford and trade for... ya al have fun out there and drive real cars======mopars
No, you didn't name me by name. I tend to fall on the side of purists when debates come up on the forum though so you have to understand that I would be personally affronted whether right or wrong. FWIW, I would still have taken exception to your post although I would have chosen less confrontational wording (which was done because I saw your post as confrontational and so...)
I suppose it does illustrate how easy it is for things in a purely written format to get out of hand. For the sake of this continuing in a positive manner I will go back and eliminate the first couple of sentences and edit some others.
Quote from: Ghoste on December 18, 2010, 12:26:00 PM
No original drivetrain in the car when it was found.
That would mean that they stamped original VIN numbers onto a block that was not original to the car. I didnt know that was legal? It it was then every car would be "numbers matching" again.
Is stamping a block with different VIN numbers to match a car that doesnt have the original engine in it legal?
I'm not sure if it is or not. I know there are some who will argue that only the dash VIN matters and everything else is just there for fluff. My personal opinion is that the numbers were required to be put there by federal law as an attempt to frustrate car thieves and chop shops (no pun or irony intended) and if it that doesn't make it illegal then there are some loopholes in the law.
Legal or not it damned sure is wrong even just from a hobbyist point of view. As has come up on the forum many times there is one reason and only one reason to restamp a block, because you know it will increase the value of the vehicle. The fact alone makes it a dishonest practice.
QuoteLegal or not it damned sure is wrong even just from a hobbyist point of view.
:yesnod: it's wrong to re-stamp a motor.
If you're looking for another Mopar to do, do a New Charger. When you finish with the Chop and Cut, STOP. :icon_smile_big:
Chris
That's mean. :lol:
I like the 666 Demon idea as well.
It may be mean,but funny and true. :lol:
:smilielol: i have to admit to cracking a smile also. :2thumbs:
im gona have to go back and rewatch that episode again about the block. the one they had was found to have a crack or hole in the bottom of a cylinder wall so the builders found a different hemi block to use. wasnt really paying attention, so i dont remember them saying they were stamping #'s on it. mabey they did and i missed it.
What in hell is this????? :flame:
"and to all you overly anal girls on your periods or with your granny pantys in a bunch,take a pill or whole bottle of pills"
Comments like this are way out of line, unnecessary and degrading........grow up! :down:
Actually, here's a thought......
Dan, take a new Charger and coupe it.
Get AMD to have door glasses, long doorskins and rear 1/4 windows made so it all fits together nicely and then after the show has aired you all sell off conversion kits to the masses who are disappointed that their Charger still has 4 doors......
Quote from: Ghoste on December 18, 2010, 02:12:10 PM
Legal or not it damned sure is wrong even just from a hobbyist point of view.
You got that right, and there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to do it unless down the road it gets advertised as #'s matching.
The people that do it will sugarcoat the hell out of it and make it sound like they are perfect little angels...sit back and watch.
I watch the latest episode today.
I always thought (based on the picture from page #22) that the car was not painted its correct T5 copper color...to me it looked to orangey, and to brite...
I reserved judgement because of the photos, but my suspicions are now confirmed.
They used a "House of Color" shade.
If this was my car, it would be painted the correct Chrysler T5 color - especially on a car with so much history. :Twocents: :Twocents:
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 19, 2010, 01:16:05 PM
I watch the latest episode today.
I always thought (based on the picture from page #22) that the car was not painted its correct T5 copper color...to be it looked to orangey, and to brite...
I reserved judgement because of the photos, but my suspicions are now confirmed.
They used a "House of Color" shade.
If this was my car, it would be painted the correct Chrysler T5 color - especially on a car with so much history. :Twocents: :Twocents:
Really? You like that flat lacquer finish look from the 60's? Not me. Give me a candy with pearl any day. Keep in mind, HoK was kind enough to step in and take over from PPG when we lost our original bodyshop. They were happy to supply all the product Jimenez Brothers needed. People who have seen the car in person are in awe of it. It's very close to the original tint but has much more depth and pop. Most of the showcar builders on the west coast use HoK. It's only collision shops that are using the mainstream brands. Although, most of the mainstreams are trying to establish a show brand now.
Quote from: ccr-host on December 19, 2010, 01:33:34 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 19, 2010, 01:16:05 PM
I watch the latest episode today.
I always thought (based on the picture from page #22) that the car was not painted its correct T5 copper color...to be it looked to orangey, and to brite...
I reserved judgement because of the photos, but my suspicions are now confirmed.
They used a "House of Color" shade.
If this was my car, it would be painted the correct Chrysler T5 color - especially on a car with so much history. :Twocents: :Twocents:
Really? You like that flat lacquer finish look from the 60's? Not me. Give me a candy with pearl any day. Keep in mind, HoK was kind enough to step in and take over from PPG when we lost our original bodyshop. They were happy to supply all the product Jimenez Brothers needed. People who have seen the car in person are in awe of it. It's very close to the original tint but has much more depth and pop. Most of the showcar builders on the west coast use HoK. It's only collision shops that are using the mainstream brands. Although, most of the mainstreams are trying to establish a show brand now.
Chrysler used Enamel on Muscle Era cars ...not lacquer.
In your defense though. Chances are that if you painted it with t5 it would be more modern and pearly looking. It takes alot of time to alter formulas to look right with a modern system while cutting out pearls etc. Not as easy as simply mixing t5 that's for sure.
Quote from: ccr-host on December 19, 2010, 01:33:34 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 19, 2010, 01:16:05 PM
I watch the latest episode today.
I always thought (based on the picture from page #22) that the car was not painted its correct T5 copper color...to be it looked to orangey, and to brite...
I reserved judgement because of the photos, but my suspicions are now confirmed.
They used a "House of Color" shade.
If this was my car, it would be painted the correct Chrysler T5 color - especially on a car with so much history. :Twocents: :Twocents:
Really? You like that flat lacquer finish look from the 60's? Not me. Give me a candy with pearl any day. Keep in mind, HoK was kind enough to step in and take over from PPG when we lost our original bodyshop. They were happy to supply all the product Jimenez Brothers needed. People who have seen the car in person are in awe of it. It's very close to the original tint but has much more depth and pop. Most of the showcar builders on the west coast use HoK. It's only collision shops that are using the mainstream brands. Although, most of the mainstreams are trying to establish a show brand now.
I saw the episode today and initially thought the same thing at the time as Tufcat. However, I also am not one to jump to a conclusion without reviewing it. HoK could be a great choice in paint for the car, but I would need to see it at a car show in person before I could really tell how it looks. Colors tend to wash out some on film (or TV), so the best way to judge the car is by eye in person. Case in point: The pearl effect in the paint did not really show up on my LCD HDTV screen (should have seen more satin in the paint than I did). While I am mostly colorblind (color-shifted to be exact), I can judge most hues better than an average person. That trait helps me pick out cars that have been touched up or repainted, as the slight differences in hues stick out to me.....
Personally, I am a purest who wants my oddball Chargers restored back to how they were delivered to their original owners at the dealership when new (not a small task if you know my projects). No less, no better. Since I have two 69 T5s and used to own a 69 T3 (a RT/SE that a friend now owns), I tend to favor the original copper colors (one particular color that I can see well) that were available from Dodge in 1969, rather than newer formulas that emulate them in some manner.....
I like the copper colors too and typically I'm not a big fan of the pearls. I'd have to reserve judgement until I see the car though because like Chad, I find you can't really tell much from print or film.
Quote from: Ghoste on December 19, 2010, 10:01:43 PM
I like the copper colors too and typically I'm not a big fan of the pearls. I'd have to reserve judgement until I see the car though because like Chad, I find you can't really tell much from print or film.
With all due respect to the opinions posted of how we should/could have painted the car (they are appreciated and insightfull)... the owner loves it! Isn't that the bottom line for a builder?
ive always been a "do what fits yourself since your driving it" kinda guy. thats why i did my car the way i did. but then again i never had the bucks to own a rare car. i cant honestly say how i would react personally if i did, or how i would deal with the flak. i love the car as it looks. close isnt only good in handgernades and horseshoes any more. :2thumbs:
Quote from: ccr-host on December 20, 2010, 12:08:43 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on December 19, 2010, 10:01:43 PM
I like the copper colors too and typically I'm not a big fan of the pearls. I'd have to reserve judgement until I see the car though because like Chad, I find you can't really tell much from print or film.
With all due respect to the opinions posted of how we should/could have painted the car (they are appreciated and insightfull)... the owner loves it! Isn't that the bottom line for a builder?
You do have a point, plus since 98% of the car is not original anyway, what does it matter?
Quote from: djcarguy on December 18, 2010, 12:57:48 PM
like your ride and the movie cmdl .there is a place for stock and modified in my world.
26 pages and all I have to say is it's Dirty Mary Crazy Larry or DMCL.... ;-)
thank you and have a good day.
BTW: The color of the car in "DMCL" is Citron Yella that wasn't even offered in 69. ;-)
Quote from: ccr-host on December 20, 2010, 12:08:43 PM
With all due respect to the opinions posted of how we should/could have painted the car (they are appreciated and insightfull)... the owner loves it! Isn't that the bottom line for a builder?
Absolutely Dan. But you asked the question about liking the old shades and opened the door by telling us you like the new ones better. ;) I wasn't debating, just sharing my point of view. You will likely find a hundred different opinions on what everyone likes for color. :lol:
Quote from: Richard Cranium on December 20, 2010, 03:30:42 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 20, 2010, 12:08:43 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on December 19, 2010, 10:01:43 PM
I like the copper colors too and typically I'm not a big fan of the pearls. I'd have to reserve judgement until I see the car though because like Chad, I find you can't really tell much from print or film.
With all due respect to the opinions posted of how we should/could have painted the car (they are appreciated and insightfull)... the owner loves it! Isn't that the bottom line for a builder?
You do have a point, plus since 98% of the car is not original anyway, what does it matter?
Original to the car? Or original 1969? If it's the latter, you may need to change your percentage as you see the car finalized. :2thumbs:
So, if you graft what was left of the XP Hemi car to my charger, would i be driving the XP Hemi Charger?
Quote from: Back N Black on December 20, 2010, 10:42:38 PM
So, if you graft what was left of the XP Hemi car to my charger, would i be driving the XP Hemi Charger?
If you want some of that rust on your car, that's up to you. Installing original parts from the XP (not that there were many left) would not also make your car the XP Hemi. Nor does installing new metal stamped in Taiwan make it the Chinese XP. There are key components that DOT considers to be non-transferable, without authorization from your local DMV.
Quote from: ccr-host on December 21, 2010, 04:51:11 PM
Quote from: Back N Black on December 20, 2010, 10:42:38 PM
So, if you graft what was left of the XP Hemi car to my charger, would i be driving the XP Hemi Charger?
If you want some of that rust on your car, that's up to you. Installing original parts from the XP (not that there were many left) would not also make your car the XP Hemi. Nor does installing new metal stamped in Taiwan make it the Chinese XP. There are key components that DOT considers to be non-transferable, without authorization from your local DMV.
They saved a significant car that would have otherwise been unsalvagable - - and I have no problem with that. Would you rather look at the rusty remains of what "used to be" the XP hemi? Seriously. They did the mopar world a favor by bringing it back to life.
I'm positive if this was salvageable with patch panels only ...they would have done that.
Lot's of very high dollar cars have been restored with new quarters, doors, fenders, etc. So let's get away from this point already. :icon_smile_wink:
Also, from what I've seen every non-stock (bolt-on) item could be undone if someone wanted the stock look - except for the enhanced color.
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 21, 2010, 06:55:13 PM
Also, from what I've seen every non-stock (bolt-on) item could be undone if someone wanted the stock look - except for the enhanced color.
true TC :thumbs: :iagree:
To me The bottom line is that they saved this car. They saved it in fornt of our eyes. To me thats cool!
If someone did all this stuff secretly and then unveiled it as the xp Hemi car, not forthcoming of the fact that there is a lot of new parts, then I would feel cheated.
This car lives on! One more Charger on planet Earth. Thats a score if you ask me!! Go Team!!!
Quote from: 1HotDaytona on December 21, 2010, 07:53:14 PM
To me The bottom line is that they saved this car. They saved it in fornt of our eyes. To me thats cool!
If someone did all this stuff secretly and then unveiled it as the xp Hemi car, not forthcoming of the fact that there is a lot of new parts, then I would feel cheated.
This car lives on! One more Charger on planet Earth. Thats a score if you ask me!! Go Team!!!
totally agree with you and read your daytona build,great to see these cars saved and maded back into great pieces of mopar history. great respect for your vison and ability ,and your dads in the saving and building the daytona. from pics it looked like you may be able to save roof and quarters on the charger shell,but as i read on i saw why you popped roof skin off.with removal of all floor and rear frame did ya ever consider ,custom frame and wheel tubs to get more tire and traction??? to handle the power of the hemi and be more radical looking,just asking??? car looks great.so far have never seen or dealt with sever rust here in oregon as i see in eastern parts. know storys of a few daytona's and sbird's ,that lived and or died out here in oregon. was a daytona wing on a trail blazer roof here 30 years ago in bare metal and daytona missing the nose in a guys back yard 20 yrs ago.great wing car drive on
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 21, 2010, 06:50:36 PM
They saved a significant car that would have otherwise been unsalvagable - - and I have no problem with that. Would you rather look at the rusty remains of what "used to be" the XP hemi? Seriously. They did the mopar world a favor by bringing it back to life.
I'm positive if this was salvageable with patch panels only ...they would have done that.
Lot's of very high dollar cars have been restored with new quarters, doors, fenders, etc. So let's get away from this point already. :icon_smile_wink:
Let's face reality; this car was too far gone to seriously consider tackling a project of that magnatude on their own, mainly because the return for their "investment" just isn't there. If not for the tv show and all the "donations", this car would never have been rebuilt. This car simply is an advertising tool showcasing components from various aftermerket supplies (who donated their goods and services and will claim the deductions on their corporate taxes) as a way to emphasize their businesses. I'm sure that whatever funds the Keislers have into the car is (mostly, if not all) also a business write off to them. That's how the business tax laws work. I'm not being critical; rather I understand the game & am fine with that. :yesnod:
Just for curiosity, has a final cost of the project ever been released? Being as all here are "in the hobby", it would be of interest to understand the costs of bringing a car back from the grave. I'll take a stab at saying that it's at least $200,000.00. How far off am I? :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: Richard Cranium on December 22, 2010, 07:43:19 AM
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 21, 2010, 06:50:36 PM
They saved a significant car that would have otherwise been unsalvagable - - and I have no problem with that. Would you rather look at the rusty remains of what "used to be" the XP hemi? Seriously. They did the mopar world a favor by bringing it back to life.
I'm positive if this was salvageable with patch panels only ...they would have done that.
Lot's of very high dollar cars have been restored with new quarters, doors, fenders, etc. So let's get away from this point already. :icon_smile_wink:
Let's face reality; this car was too far gone to seriously consider tackling a project of that magnatude on their own, mainly because the return for their "investment" just isn't there. If not for the tv show and all the "donations", this car would never have been rebuilt. This car simply is an advertising tool showcasing components from various aftermerket supplies (who donated their goods and services and will claim the deductions on their corporate taxes) as a way to emphasize their businesses. I'm sure that whatever funds the Keislers have into the car is (mostly, if not all) also a business write off to them. That's how the business tax laws work. I'm not being critical; rather I understand the game & am fine with that. :yesnod:
Just for curiosity, has a final cost of the project ever been released? Being as all here are "in the hobby", it would be of interest to understand the costs of bringing a car back from the grave. I'll take a stab at saying that it's at least $200,000.00. How far off am I? :icon_smile_big:
We've never tracked market value costs for any of our builds because the price is not something we would want to discuss in the content. The show is international and when it began 7 years ago in Canada, the dollars we would have discussed were not the dollars you would deal with in the US. Also, when you start to pin prices on things, it dates the content. We try to keep the show "Evergreen", because the way you restore a 69 Charger this year, is probably the same way you would restore it 5 or 10 years from now. Talking prices would shorten its broadcast shelf life. And while the motivation for sponsors is to showcase their products to the public, it is not the motivation of the production. Our motivation is to entertain and enlighten. I've turned down a number of companies over the years who want to sell the public snake oil or inappropriate products and they've offered us good money to do it. For example, you have not seen us use a very popular "protectant" cleaning product on any of our upholstry becasue the product contains silicone. That was a pretty decent sized check we walked away from.
All that said, I think you're a little high on your estimate. Just over six figures would be my guess. But, it all depends on who is doing the restoration. If you consider the labor for a straight body-off to most vehicles comes in around 1,000 to 1,200 hours, a hobbyist could remove a big chunk of that cost from the equation by doing some of it themselves. Most restoration facilities will negotiate an hourly rate of $65. So, you're looking at 65 to 80 grand in labor. It's when you start to modify or muscle things up that the price starts to jump. The Charger mods were very mild compared to some of the builds we've featured.
As for parts costs, I'll leave that up to you guys here. You're probably better than I am at determining those costs. But, if you are the purchaser, most manufactureres will give you volume discounsts too.
i must say im impressed with the level head you've kept while dealing with some of these posts, lol
Dan, you are my hero. Period.
I'm very glad you're replying to every question posted here, and amazed at your level-headedness. Myself, I would have spun out of control a long time ago. :RantExplode:
And the fact that you're a Canadian, well, that makes it even sweeter!
Now, if I could somehow get you to somehow include a Canadian Forces member with one of your builds, maybe one with four project cars (hint-hint)......!!! :scratchchin:
Quote from: Magnumcharger on December 23, 2010, 02:47:30 PM
Dan, you are my hero. Period.
I'm very glad you're replying to every question posted here, and amazed at your level-headedness. Myself, I would have spun out of control a long time ago. :RantExplode:
And the fact that you're a Canadian, well, that makes it even sweeter!
Now, if I could somehow get you to somehow include a Canadian Forces member with one of your builds, maybe one with four project cars (hint-hint)......!!! :scratchchin:
You're in the Canadian Armed Forces? Wow. THANK YOU for your service. Keeping the peace and kicking butt! The perfect combination for a military.
The posts here in no way annoy me. Yeah, some people have their opinions but, I have mine too and I've posted some flames back, I think. Usually, they're genuine questions and fair comments. Sometimes there is a little bit of misinformation, but I don't consider it to be inflamitory... Mind you I do kick my dog every night before bed, so I get a lot of my frustrations out on him... JUST KIDDING! :smilielol:
Now if I could improve my spelling...
Quote from: ccr-host on December 23, 2010, 03:04:49 PM
Now if I could improve my spelling...
Dan, there's an app for that.... ;)
Quote from: Khyron on December 23, 2010, 02:08:21 PM
i must say im impressed with the level head you've kept while dealing with some of these posts, lol
I totally agree. Dan has gone above and beyond answering our questions, and has been a class act the whole way :bow:
I'm impressed that he's such a regular car guy (like us) - and not just a TV host. Plus, he actually hangs with us! WOW. :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
Here's to 'ya Dan Woods! :cheers:
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 23, 2010, 06:16:24 PM
Quote from: Khyron on December 23, 2010, 02:08:21 PM
i must say im impressed with the level head you've kept while dealing with some of these posts, lol
Here's to 'ya Dan Woods! :cheers:
I agree you da man Dan! :2thumbs:
Quote from: thedodgeboys on December 23, 2010, 08:38:01 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 23, 2010, 06:16:24 PM
Quote from: Khyron on December 23, 2010, 02:08:21 PM
i must say im impressed with the level head you've kept while dealing with some of these posts, lol
Here's to 'ya Dan Woods! :cheers:
I agree you da man Dan! :2thumbs:
OK, OK... Enough of this stuff... :notworthy:
no bow, just had to give you cudos....
now on to more important things, when are you going to do a show on my DMCL Clone Charger? LMAO
no new episode for christmas :shruggy: what the heck am i gona do???? hang out with the wife? watch the kids and grand kids open presents???? omg i had this all planed and as im scanning the channel, no new episode :rotz: :'( i guess there is no santa after all :brickwall:
Quote from: nvrbdn on December 23, 2010, 11:53:17 PM
no new episode for christmas :shruggy: what the heck am i gona do???? hang out with the wife? watch the kids and grand kids open presents???? omg i had this all planed and as im scanning the channel, no new episode :rotz: :'( i guess there is no santa after all :brickwall:
Oh yes there is!
Well done :cheers:
Quote from: nvrbdn on December 23, 2010, 11:53:17 PM
no new episode for christmas :shruggy: what the heck am i gona do???? hang out with the wife? watch the kids and grand kids open presents???? omg i had this all planed and as im scanning the channel, no new episode :rotz: :'( i guess there is no santa after all :brickwall:
no santa after all,,,, well hanging with the wife and kids,grand kids trashing your home and eating all the food and goodies?????? or kicking back with half your stuff and 13 years of kid support and freedom,total freedom.....boring freedom,sometimes... do ya know why divorce cost so much,because it is a female and government scam to keep us guys trapped under their mind control and hands in our pockets,,,, OR IS it is worth it,,..lol..hahaha,,,,or as i say to my xxxxxx ho,ho,ho,,,,hoe---------MERY XMAS AND IT WILL ALL BE BETTER NEXT YEAR,BS,BS
Quote from: doctor4766 on December 24, 2010, 01:52:58 AM
Quote from: nvrbdn on December 23, 2010, 11:53:17 PM
no new episode for christmas :shruggy: what the heck am i gona do???? hang out with the wife? watch the kids and grand kids open presents???? omg i had this all planed and as im scanning the channel, no new episode :rotz: :'( i guess there is no santa after all :brickwall:
Oh yes there is!
Well done :cheers:
great to hear it doc :2thumbs:
Get a beer, grab a seat, and put your feet up because what going to tell you is the actual true story about the 'brochure car" from a guy who was there - 42 years ago.
My Dad retired after 35 years with Chrysler Engineering. He witnessed the development of many (now historical) pre-production cars as they moved through Chrysler engineering at Highland Park. What I'm about to tell you is "the way it was back then". I realize some background information is needed for credibility sake, so here it goes.
He started Chrysler engineering in 1965. Without a lot of hoopla I can tell you that his job took him to every corner of engineering. His office was 200 feet from the engineering paint shop which was in close proximity to the metal and trim shops. He had the run of engineering which included access to the "security room" where early prototypes were built....(in fact, I was there once as a kid- sshhh, don't tell anybody! :icon_smile_wink:).
Although he didn't have access to the design studio he was invited on an "as needed" basis in the late '60's and early 70's. His last job was working for the concept and specialty vehicle group/design office when he retired from Chrysler in 2001. He now works at the Walter P. Chrysler Museum one day a week.
He lusted over this car for many months, and saw it often before the 1969 models were ever revealed to the public. Since he loved the car so much, he watched its progress during its many phases of 1968.
It was a 1968 Charger that was turned into a 1969 model by the engineering metal shop, trim shop, and paint shop in early 1968. The round side maker lights were changed to the rectangular ones, new grille, and the tail panel was replaced for the new taillights. It was then repainted several times in building 132 at Highland Park with a peel coat paint job and was shown (and photographed) in many different trim styles .....from base car, to SE, to R/T.
The vinyl top color was also changed from white, to black, then tan, depending on the exterior color. The vinyl color was easily changed by using a peal coat paint job also. He's almost sure this was the car photographed as a red R/T with a black tape stripe.
The engineering office referred to these cars as "program cars". Very few program cars were ever sold to the public for safety and liability reasons, especially ones that have been modified as much as this car was...i.e. a 1968 model dressed as a 1969. He remembers the powertrain to be a 440/automatic. He also clearly remembers the woodgrain dash - obviously done because it was shown as an SE.
Back in the late '60's, brochures were done 3 to 4 months in advance of any pre-production cars leaving the assembly line. Printing and photographic technology was nowhere near today's digital standard so engineering typically modified one car into several different color and trim variations for the photographic lab. Sometimes, when late changes occurred the "next best thing" was to airbrush the photo. Many "retouched" photos were used for print media.
Personally, my Dad remembers the first time he saw the "new for 1969" Charger. Right away, he decided he wanted to buy a 1969 Charger...and his favorite color was medium bronze just like the brochure car. He settled for a T7 dark bronze Charger SE instead.
Nobody, especially my Dad, knows for sure if the actual "brochure car" was ever sold by Chrysler, or still exists today.
In regard to the Chop Cut Rebuild Charger...it's very unlikely to be the same car since the brochure car was a 1968 model with a 440.
I will leave it up to you to decide. :2thumbs:
My Dad is registered as: oldhemiman if you want to ask him a question on anything. :chatting:
Tuffcat,
Thanks for the insight! That is terrific information. I'd like to know if they swapped engines in the car for photography. Ours did have a 440 with an automatic, which is contrary to the VIN code and the accessories like the torque boxes. It would seem that changing engines and K-members would be an extensive effort for a few pictures. A second car produced later would satify that requirement. Also, does he know how many promotional vehicles were produced? Was it just one or, were there a few to satisfy the media and tour circuit needs? It's quite possible this car was a promotional car and NOT the brochure car. But, it does seem odd that they would mark it a Hemi but have a 440 in it, if they were photographing it as a Hemi car. They wouldn't be able to use any under-hood shots in the brochure, if that were the case.
Quote from: ccr-host on December 24, 2010, 07:32:53 PM
Tuffcat,
Thanks for the insight! That is terrific information. I'd like to know if they swapped engines in the car for photography. Ours did have a 440 with an automatic, which is contrary to the VIN code and the accessories like the torque boxes. It would seem that changing engines and K-members would be an extensive effort for a few pictures. A second car produced later would satify that requirement. Also, does he know how many promotional vehicles were produced? Was it just one or, were there a few to satisfy the media and tour circuit needs? It's quite possible this car was a promotional car and NOT the brochure car. But, it does seem odd that they would mark it a Hemi but have a 440 in it, if they were photographing it as a Hemi car. They wouldn't be able to use any under-hood shots in the brochure, if that were the case.
Dan, it was definately a 440/auto, although it could wear Hemi badges depending on the desired photo shoot. It never had a Hemi installed at engineering that my Dad had knowledge of. He says the Hemi door emblems were probably "stick on" since it was indended for many different dress rehearsals and holes would be to permanent. He doesn't recall any holes in the doors when he saw the car.
He also said Hemi engines and photo shoots don't mix because you know what happens after its been started up, moved, moved again, then again, and finally when they think its in the right location, its moved again!
The car was hardly driven and started up many times. If given a choice, a 440 would've been chosen over a Hemi for any long term photographic duty strictly for its reliability. Quite possibly another Hemi car was used for underhood photographic work....but there's no way to prove this 100% because he wasn't closely associated with the photographic studio at the time.
Back in 1966, another Charger "Program Car" was used with a Hemi. He said they could be extremely tempermental, since they were driven inside the complex most of the time and rarely driven on the street.
Like you, I would agree that the CCR Charger may have been built for some other purposes - or maybe a promotional show car vehicle of some sort? Inspect the original front fenders and rear quarters to see if there was any visible patchwork from a possible side marker lamp conversion. This could be interesting....does your car have a 1968 VIN? :scratchchin: Or is it a very early 1969 VIN?
According to Galen, the VIN puts it as a July 1968 build, which does seem a little late for the brochure. They would likely have needed a photo car in June. However, in my short time working on ACDelco marketing, I saw some pretty quick turn around's on photo shoots. There also were holes in the door for the Hemi badge and there was no work done to the rear quarter marker lights. But, as I said, there were a number of Hemi features on the car and no R/T markings. That combination was not sold to the public. It also had the manual transmission side plate and torque boxes. The production numbers for four speed Hemi's in 1969 was only 227. Two hundred in the US and 27 in Canada, so either way this is still a pretty rare car... and a TV star now too. The front left fender had been replaced at some point, so the fender tag is gone. If there was a build sheet for it, it's Tennessee compost now!
The whole thing sure is an exciting mystery! :popcrn:
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 24, 2010, 01:38:37 PM
Get a beer, grab a seat, and put your feet up because what going to tell you is the actual true story about the 'brochure car" from a guy who was there - 42 years ago.
My Dad retired after 35 years with Chrysler Engineering. He witnessed the development of many (now historical) pre-production cars as they moved through Chrysler engineering at Highland Park. What I'm about to tell you is "the way it was back then". I realize some background information is needed for credibility sake, so here it goes.
He started Chrysler engineering in 1965. Without a lot of hoopla I can tell you that his job took him to every corner of engineering. His office was 200 feet from the engineering paint shop which was in close proximity to the metal and trim shops. He had the run of engineering which included access to the "security room" where early prototypes were built....(in fact, I was there once as a kid- sshhh, don't tell anybody! :icon_smile_wink:).
Although he didn't have access to the design studio he was invited on an "as needed" basis in the late '60's and early 70's. His last job was working for the concept and specialty vehicle group/design office when he retired from Chrysler in 2001. He now works at the Walter P. Chrysler Museum one day a week.
He lusted over this car for many months, and saw it often before the 1969 models were ever revealed to the public. Since he loved the car so much, he watched its progress during its many phases of 1968.
It was a 1968 Charger that was turned into a 1969 model by the engineering metal shop, trim shop, and paint shop in early 1968. The round side maker lights were changed to the rectangular ones, new grille, and the tail panel was replaced for the new taillights. It was then repainted several times in building 132 at Highland Park with a peel coat paint job and was shown (and photographed) in many different trim styles .....from base car, to SE, to R/T.
The vinyl top color was also changed from white, to black, then tan, depending on the exterior color. The vinyl color was easily changed by using a peal coat paint job also. He's almost sure this was the car photographed as a red R/T with a black tape stripe.
The engineering office referred to these cars as "program cars". Very few program cars were ever sold to the public for safety and liability reasons, especially ones that have been modified as much as this car was...i.e. a 1968 model dressed as a 1969. He remembers the powertrain to be a 440/automatic. He also clearly remembers the woodgrain dash - obviously done because it was shown as an SE.
Back in the late '60's, brochures were done 3 to 4 months in advance of any pre-production cars leaving the assembly line. Printing and photographic technology was nowhere near today's digital standard so engineering typically modified one car into several different color and trim variations for the photographic lab. Sometimes, when late changes occurred the "next best thing" was to airbrush the photo. Many "retouched" photos were used for print media.
Personally, my Dad remembers the first time he saw the "new for 1969" Charger. Right away, he decided he wanted to buy a 1969 Charger...and his favorite color was medium bronze just like the brochure car. He settled for a T7 dark bronze Charger SE instead.
Nobody, especially my Dad, knows for sure if the actual "brochure car" was ever sold by Chrysler, or still exists today.
In regard to the Chop Cut Rebuild Charger...it's very unlikely to be the same car since the brochure car was a 1968 model with a 440.
I will leave it up to you to decide. :2thumbs:
My Dad is registered as: oldhemiman if you want to ask him a question on anything. :chatting:
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 24, 2010, 08:03:08 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 24, 2010, 07:32:53 PM
Tuffcat,
Thanks for the insight! That is terrific information. I'd like to know if they swapped engines in the car for photography. Ours did have a 440 with an automatic, which is contrary to the VIN code and the accessories like the torque boxes. It would seem that changing engines and K-members would be an extensive effort for a few pictures. A second car produced later would satify that requirement. Also, does he know how many promotional vehicles were produced? Was it just one or, were there a few to satisfy the media and tour circuit needs? It's quite possible this car was a promotional car and NOT the brochure car. But, it does seem odd that they would mark it a Hemi but have a 440 in it, if they were photographing it as a Hemi car. They wouldn't be able to use any under-hood shots in the brochure, if that were the case.
Dan, it was definately a 440/auto, although it could wear Hemi badges depending on the desired photo shoot. It never had a Hemi installed at engineering that my Dad had knowledge of. He says the Hemi door emblems were probably "stick on" since it was indended for many different dress rehearsals and holes would be to permanent. He doesn't recall any holes in the doors when he saw the car.
He also said Hemi engines and photo shoots don't mix because you know what happens after its been started up, moved, moved again, then again, and finally when they think its in the right location, its moved again!
The car was hardly driven and started up many times. If given a choice, a 440 would've been chosen over a Hemi for any long term photographic duty strictly for its reliability. Quite possibly another Hemi car was used for underhood photographic work....but there's no way to prove this 100% because he wasn't closely associated with the photographic studio at the time.
Back in 1966, another Charger "Program Car" was used with a Hemi. He said they could be extremely tempermental, since they were driven inside the complex most of the time and rarely driven on the street.
Like you, I would agree that the CCR Charger may have been built for some other purposes - or maybe a promotional show car vehicle of some sort? Inspect the original front fenders and rear quarters to see if there was any visible patchwork from a possible side marker lamp conversion. This could be interesting....does your car have a 1968 VIN? :scratchchin: Or is it a very early 1969 VIN?
:o this is awesome infomation /story Tuffcat :yesnod: thanks for sharing :cheers: :cheers: :popcrn:
Quote from: ccr-host on December 25, 2010, 03:28:37 AM
According to Galen, the VIN puts it as a July 1968 build, which does seem a little late for the brochure. They would likely have needed a photo car in June. However, in my short time working on ACDelco marketing, I saw some pretty quick turn around's on photo shoots. There also were holes in the door for the Hemi badge and there was no work done to the rear quarter marker lights. But, as I said, there were a number of Hemi features on the car and no R/T markings. That combination was not sold to the public. It also had the manual transmission side plate and torque boxes. The production numbers for four speed Hemi's in 1969 was only 227. Two hundred in the US and 27 in Canada, so either way this is still a pretty rare car... and a TV star now too. The front left fender had been replaced at some point, so the fender tag is gone. If there was a build sheet for it, it's Tennessee compost now!
The whole thing sure is an exciting mystery! :popcrn:
Dan are you sure on that SPD? I have it pegged with an SPD of 10/24/68 within my registry database....
TufCat, that is some real interesting & insightful info there...kudos to your dad! :cheers:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 25, 2010, 09:06:41 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 25, 2010, 03:28:37 AM
According to Galen, the VIN puts it as a July 1968 build, which does seem a little late for the brochure. They would likely have needed a photo car in June. However, in my short time working on ACDelco marketing, I saw some pretty quick turn around's on photo shoots. There also were holes in the door for the Hemi badge and there was no work done to the rear quarter marker lights. But, as I said, there were a number of Hemi features on the car and no R/T markings. That combination was not sold to the public. It also had the manual transmission side plate and torque boxes. The production numbers for four speed Hemi's in 1969 was only 227. Two hundred in the US and 27 in Canada, so either way this is still a pretty rare car... and a TV star now too. The front left fender had been replaced at some point, so the fender tag is gone. If there was a build sheet for it, it's Tennessee compost now!
The whole thing sure is an exciting mystery! :popcrn:
Dan are you sure on that SPD? I have it pegged with an SPD of 10/24/68 within my registry database....
I'll have to pull the complete VIN and post it for you. But, yes I believe Galen pegged it as a summer build. What doesn't make sense to me is, why they would install the torque boxes if its a 440 car? And why put the trans plate in if it's an automatic? The holes for the R/T badge between the tail lights were crowned as though they were drilled by hand and put in after manufacture but, the door holes were punched.
On the Moparts board, someone suggested that the car may not have been issued a VIN until later when the descision was made to sell the car. I wonder if that is possible too? :scratchchin:
Dan - the fender tag would be on the unibody inner fender structure of the car not the fender itself. ;)
Quote from: ccr-host on December 25, 2010, 10:12:06 AM
But, yes I believe Galen pegged it as a summer build. What doesn't make sense to me is, why they would install the torque boxes if its a 440 car?
not to stir up stuff, but I have seen galen wrong on a few things... namely a 71 hemi charger I had a hand in restoring once... but thats another story ;)
Quote from: Khyron on December 25, 2010, 12:33:57 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 25, 2010, 10:12:06 AM
But, yes I believe Galen pegged it as a summer build. What doesn't make sense to me is, why they would install the torque boxes if its a 440 car?
not to stir up stuff, but I have seen galen wrong on a few things... namely a 71 hemi charger I had a hand in restoring once... but thats another story ;)
I have the VIN to the car and it puts it at 10/24/68
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 25, 2010, 03:22:59 PM
Quote from: Khyron on December 25, 2010, 12:33:57 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 25, 2010, 10:12:06 AM
But, yes I believe Galen pegged it as a summer build. What doesn't make sense to me is, why they would install the torque boxes if its a 440 car?
not to stir up stuff, but I have seen galen wrong on a few things... namely a 71 hemi charger I had a hand in restoring once... but thats another story ;)
I have the VIN to the car and it puts it at 10/24/68
October would be very late for photo's. But, it would be the right time for the car show circuit.
So, I assume the engine and trans was swapped later.
My guess would be that the engine swap occured after it went into private ownership. What are the markings on the block (stamped and cast numbers)?
Quote from: Ghoste on December 25, 2010, 03:49:33 PM
My guess would be that the engine swap occured after it went into private ownership. What are the markings on the block (stamped and cast numbers)?
that would be my guess also :yesnod:
:popcrn:
Quote from: Ghoste on December 25, 2010, 03:49:33 PM
My guess would be that the engine swap occured after it went into private ownership. What are the markings on the block (stamped and cast numbers)?
I'll have to ask Craig Hopkins that question. He has the block and transmission at the AMD installation center, in Georgia.
I spoke with David Hakim at SEMA and he told me to expect nothing to be predictable when it comes to promotional cars. He's heard of cars badged two different ways so the car could pull double duty on a photo shoot. :eyes:
Yep, a very common practice with styling bucks too. I have pics somewhere of a 67 Coronet that I saw once that was half 440 and half 500 trim levels.
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 24, 2010, 01:38:37 PM
Get a beer, grab a seat, and put your feet up because what going to tell you is the actual true story about the 'brochure car" from a guy who was there - 42 years ago.
My Dad retired after 35 years with Chrysler Engineering. He witnessed the development of many (now historical) pre-production cars as they moved through Chrysler engineering at Highland Park. What I'm about to tell you is "the way it was back then". I realize some background information is needed for credibility sake, so here it goes.
He started Chrysler engineering in 1965. Without a lot of hoopla I can tell you that his job took him to every corner of engineering. His office was 200 feet from the engineering paint shop which was in close proximity to the metal and trim shops. He had the run of engineering which included access to the "security room" where early prototypes were built....(in fact, I was there once as a kid- sshhh, don't tell anybody! :icon_smile_wink:).
Although he didn't have access to the design studio he was invited on an "as needed" basis in the late '60's and early 70's. His last job was working for the concept and specialty vehicle group/design office when he retired from Chrysler in 2001. He now works at the Walter P. Chrysler Museum one day a week.
He lusted over this car for many months, and saw it often before the 1969 models were ever revealed to the public. Since he loved the car so much, he watched its progress during its many phases of 1968.
It was a 1968 Charger that was turned into a 1969 model by the engineering metal shop, trim shop, and paint shop in early 1968. The round side maker lights were changed to the rectangular ones, new grille, and the tail panel was replaced for the new taillights. It was then repainted several times in building 132 at Highland Park with a peel coat paint job and was shown (and photographed) in many different trim styles .....from base car, to SE, to R/T.
The vinyl top color was also changed from white, to black, then tan, depending on the exterior color. The vinyl color was easily changed by using a peal coat paint job also. He's almost sure this was the car photographed as a red R/T with a black tape stripe.
The engineering office referred to these cars as "program cars". Very few program cars were ever sold to the public for safety and liability reasons, especially ones that have been modified as much as this car was...i.e. a 1968 model dressed as a 1969. He remembers the powertrain to be a 440/automatic. He also clearly remembers the woodgrain dash - obviously done because it was shown as an SE.
Back in the late '60's, brochures were done 3 to 4 months in advance of any pre-production cars leaving the assembly line. Printing and photographic technology was nowhere near today's digital standard so engineering typically modified one car into several different color and trim variations for the photographic lab. Sometimes, when late changes occurred the "next best thing" was to airbrush the photo. Many "retouched" photos were used for print media.
Personally, my Dad remembers the first time he saw the "new for 1969" Charger. Right away, he decided he wanted to buy a 1969 Charger...and his favorite color was medium bronze just like the brochure car. He settled for a T7 dark bronze Charger SE instead.
Nobody, especially my Dad, knows for sure if the actual "brochure car" was ever sold by Chrysler, or still exists today.
In regard to the Chop Cut Rebuild Charger...it's very unlikely to be the same car since the brochure car was a 1968 model with a 440.
I will leave it up to you to decide. :2thumbs:
My Dad is registered as: oldhemiman if you want to ask him a question on anything. :chatting:
Awesome it sounds like the mystery is more than likely solved then as not being the brochure car
I agree, the odds of our XP being the brochure car are declining. However, it brings up three other questions:
1) If this is not the brochure car, then how many XP's were produced?
2) Why would they produce more than one car for promotional purposes that people couldn't order?
3) We haven't eleminated the possibility the suggestion from another party here that VIN was issued later.
I love a good mystery! Any thoughts?
To my knowledge Chrysler was not in the habit of building cars and then assigning VIN's later.
We so far haven't much discussed the idea that it could a typo (probably few of us want it to be). But then it should have had the RT in the grille (easily changed) and evidence of an RT badge on the tail panel (not so easily changed).
Going back to XP Hemi's, as far as a number made I would go with virtually none. This one and possibly the brochure car and maybe one more?
I can't see them running a bunch for promo's knowing that no one could order one.
How could they issue a vin later if the body has the sequential stampings? I guess they could add a dash & fender tag later???
Quote from: ccr-host on December 26, 2010, 07:08:47 PM
I agree, the odds of our XP being the brochure car are declining. However, it brings up three other questions:
1) If this is not the brochure car, then how many XP's were produced?
2) Why would they produce more than one car for promotional purposes that people couldn't order?
3) We haven't eleminated the possibility the suggestion from another party here that VIN was issued later.
I love a good mystery! Any thoughts?
not sure where i'm going with this , or if it makes sense ! , ( have mentioned something like this before ) as we know you can pretty much option out an XP car like a R/T obviously not motor , but in this case you can !! , suppose these XP J coded charger were ordered by drag racers , & or one way of making a hemi car cheaper!! for racers , to build / order a few XP cars , also weight brackets in stock classes etc at the time, in drag racing ! a stock XP hemi car !! would it weigh less then a stock Hemi XS charger R/T !! , similar when hemi Ebody racers ordered their cudas / challengers , radio delete , manual drums , heater delete , getting carried away now but look at the A990 package cars ,
perhaps it was supposed to be a similar idea hemi motor in a basic charger package :shruggy: i think i know what i'm trying to say but , :scratchchin: , or i have had one too many beers over christmas , going to wait for my bus :shortbus:
:yesnod: :cheers: ............ :popcrn:
Quote from: tan top on December 26, 2010, 07:38:33 PM
not sure where i'm going with this , or if it makes sense ! , ( have mentioned something like this before ) as we know you can pretty much option out an XP car like a R/T obviously not motor , but in this case you can !! , suppose these XP J coded charger were ordered by drag racers , & or one way of making a hemi car cheaper!! for racers , to build / order a few XP cars , also weight brackets in stock classes etc at the time, in drag racing ! a stock XP hemi car !! would it weigh less then a stock Hemi XS charger R/T !! , similar when hemi Ebody racers ordered their cudas / challengers , radio delete , manual drums , heater delete , getting carried away now but look at the A990 package cars ,
perhaps it was supposed to be a similar idea hemi motor in a basic charger package :shruggy: i think i know what i'm trying to say but , :scratchchin: , or i have had one too many beers over christmas , going to wait for my bus :shortbus:
:yesnod: :cheers: ............ :popcrn:
How do you figure it would weigh less? According to Shafi, this car had torque boxes & the HD suspension components....
Unless you are figuring the weight of the R/T badges are more than the standard Charger arrows? :shruggy:
;)
I still stand by my page 2, post #41 theory :Twocents:
I don't want to reread the whole thing but I thought it DIDN'T have the RT tail panel?
Being a Charger enthusiast, I am aware of other Chargers that exist, but were never supposed to "be"....
The first would be the 1968 Hemi Charger 500 that we all are infinitely aware of. Obviously, this was a pre-production "prototype" for the upcoming 1969 Grand National Stock Car crowd.
It's just as unusual as any XP Charger could be, and it too was used for promotional purposes and advertising. In fact, not only is it a 1968 model instead of 1969, it's an XS instead of the later 500's XX.
(Yes, I know some '69's were XS too.)
And then, there is the XP 1970 Hemi Charger. It's been mentioned on this blog several times over the years, and it too survives.
Also, was there not a particular 1970 Hemi Road Runner found a couple of years ago that was verified as being the actual car used in the Rapid Transit Ads?
Why are we questioning the possibility of this car being produced for what may well be exactly what we surmised all along?
It could very well be what we think it is.
Quote from: Magnumcharger on December 26, 2010, 09:20:00 PM
Being a Charger enthusiast, I am aware of other Chargers that exist, but were never supposed to "be"....
The first would be the 1968 Hemi Charger 500 that we all are infinitely aware of. Obviously, this was a pre-production "prototype" for the upcoming 1969 Grand National Stock Car crowd.
It's just as unusual as any XP Charger could be, and it too was used for promotional purposes and advertising. In fact, not only is it a 1968 model instead of 1969, it's an XS instead of the later 500's XX.
(Yes, I know some '69's were XS too.)
And then, there is the XP 1970 Hemi Charger. It's been mentioned on this blog several times over the years, and it too survives.
Also, was there not a particular 1970 Hemi Road Runner found a couple of years ago that was verified as being the actual car used in the Rapid Transit Ads?
Why are we questioning the possibility of this car being produced for what may well be exactly what we surmised all along?
It could very well be what we think it is.
You are correct....never say "never" when it comes to Chrysler vehicle history. :icon_smile_wink:
Nobody can say 100% without a doubt that a production 1969 XP (factory Hemi equipped) Charger was ever built....
We DO know for sure that Chrysler built and sold a 1969 Charger with this VIN number because it absolutely exists today. :iagree:
Yes, you are also correct that other mystery cars have been found and "solved" over the years...but it doesn't help solve this case. This car could actually be the only real XP29J - and that would be totally cool! :icon_smile_cool: It already has the VIN....and would be rock solid if the original numbers matching Hemi was still sitting between the frame rails. :yesnod: :yesnod: Unfortunately, this hasn't been proven.
Claiming authenticity based on the fact that other factory oddity's have been found to exist just isn't enough anymore. :cheers:
BTW, you mentioned the 1968 Hemi Charger 500 pre-production "prototype" shown in the picture. Does it still exist today?
Engineering cars should not have been sold to the general public unless they could returned to "new model" condition. Obviously a 1968 Charger dressed as a 1969 Charger 500 could not have been easily returned to "new model" condition. These cars were supposed to be shipped to the proving grounds and then crushed/scraped. At least those were the rules....nobody knows for sure if the rules were always followed? :D
To this day I remember my Father preaching how I needed to protect my driver's license to keep insurance rates down. Back then before I even bought a car I needed to check insurance rates first.
I also remember cars that were considered "dirty" cause a VIN had been manipulated trying to influence insurance rates so their resale value was nonexistent.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this car was built as an insurance beater. Sure it had the J code but how diligent was the insurance cos.? Was the fact it was an XP instead of an XS enough of a savings for a person to order it that way?
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on December 27, 2010, 12:32:31 AM
To this day I remember my Father preaching how I needed to protect my driver's license to keep insurance rates down. Back then before I even bought a car I needed to check insurance rates first.
I also remember cars that were considered "dirty" cause a VIN had been manipulated trying to influence insurance rates so their resale value was nonexistent.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this car was built as an insurance beater. Sure it had the J code but how diligent was the insurance cos.? Was the fact it was an XP instead of an XS enough of a savings for a person to order it that way?
I don't see how a 427 Hemi would save insurance money over a 440. Block size? I know my unsurance was simply based on V8, nothing more.
As for the earlier post suggesting the non-R/T would be a weight savings, well then why would they order the 8 track instead of the "lighter" AM/FM radio? ::)
Quote from: ccr-host on December 27, 2010, 01:30:20 AM
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on December 27, 2010, 12:32:31 AM
To this day I remember my Father preaching how I needed to protect my driver's license to keep insurance rates down. Back then before I even bought a car I needed to check insurance rates first.
I also remember cars that were considered "dirty" cause a VIN had been manipulated trying to influence insurance rates so their resale value was nonexistent.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this car was built as an insurance beater. Sure it had the J code but how diligent was the insurance cos.? Was the fact it was an XP instead of an XS enough of a savings for a person to order it that way?
I don't see how a 427 Hemi would save insurance money over a 440. Block size? I know my unsurance was simply based on V8, nothing more.
As for the earlier post suggesting the non-R/T would be a weight savings, well then why would they order the 8 track instead of the "lighter" AM/FM radio? ::)
You know as well as I do it's all about what the car's called. A base model Charger would save vs. a high performance R/T model. Surely you remember what the insurance industry did to muscle cars back then? :shruggy: The fact your insurance bases their rates on whether or not the car had a V8 just proves my point all the more.
I'm not talking about cubic inches so much as what the car's called.
Quote from: Magnumcharger on December 26, 2010, 09:20:00 PM
Also, was there not a particular 1970 Hemi Road Runner found a couple of years ago that was verified as being the actual car used in the Rapid Transit Ads?
Yes. A member here Jeremy (C_stripes) was the one who found this car and bought it. It's since changed hands and is being restored by a friend of his.
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 26, 2010, 09:11:13 PM
Quote from: tan top on December 26, 2010, 07:38:33 PM
not sure where i'm going with this , or if it makes sense ! , ( have mentioned something like this before ) as we know you can pretty much option out an XP car like a R/T obviously not motor , but in this case you can !! , suppose these XP J coded charger were ordered by drag racers , & or one way of making a hemi car cheaper!! for racers , to build / order a few XP cars , also weight brackets in stock classes etc at the time, in drag racing ! a stock XP hemi car !! would it weigh less then a stock Hemi XS charger R/T !! , similar when hemi Ebody racers ordered their cudas / challengers , radio delete , manual drums , heater delete , getting carried away now but look at the A990 package cars ,
perhaps it was supposed to be a similar idea hemi motor in a basic charger package :shruggy: i think i know what i'm trying to say but , :scratchchin: , or i have had one too many beers over christmas , going to wait for my bus :shortbus:
:yesnod: :cheers: ............ :popcrn:
How do you figure it would weigh less? According to Shafi, this car had torque boxes & the HD suspension components....
Unless you are figuring the weight of the R/T badges are more than the standard Charger arrows? :shruggy:
;)
I still stand by my page 2, post #41 theory :Twocents:
:yesnod:
hmmm :scratchchin: ;) makes more sence Chris :yesnod:
yea info on 70 rr ad car on FORGOTTen MOPars, he got the body then sold off to be restoryed????WHAT IS HAPPENING with forgotten mopars,is it dead or coming back,or brokkenn??????????????/// thanks was a great site,,, i think or maybe know that kid is on here some where,what up...lol ...keep going on your charger,but do repair the rust under and drive safe,lol ...bye dj carguy
How would you "theorists" or "enthusiasts" or "experts" diagnose this?
and djcarguy...??? :shruggy:
Quote from: ccr-host on December 27, 2010, 01:30:20 AM
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on December 27, 2010, 12:32:31 AM
To this day I remember my Father preaching how I needed to protect my driver's license to keep insurance rates down. Back then before I even bought a car I needed to check insurance rates first.
I also remember cars that were considered "dirty" cause a VIN had been manipulated trying to influence insurance rates so their resale value was nonexistent.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this car was built as an insurance beater. Sure it had the J code but how diligent was the insurance cos.? Was the fact it was an XP instead of an XS enough of a savings for a person to order it that way?
I don't see how a 427 Hemi would save insurance money over a 440. Block size? I know my unsurance was simply based on V8, nothing more.
As for the earlier post suggesting the non-R/T would be a weight savings, well then why would they order the 8 track instead of the "lighter" AM/FM radio? ::)
I believe the ins co's used the HP rating of an engine to value insurance no? Isnt that why most of the big HP engines were severely under rated? :shruggy:
Quote from: Chris G. on December 27, 2010, 08:09:48 AM
How would you "theorists" or "enthusiasts" or "experts" diagnose this?
and djcarguy...??? :shruggy:
Hey look a TYPO!!!! :rotz:
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=72866.0;attach=142840;image)
And look! Two 1 of 1's in the same photo!
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 27, 2010, 08:15:45 AM
Quote from: Chris G. on December 27, 2010, 08:09:48 AM
How would you "theorists" or "enthusiasts" or "experts" diagnose this?
and djcarguy...??? :shruggy:
Hey look a TYPO!!!! :rotz:
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=72866.0;attach=142840;image)
damn slant 6 in an R/T , see see to beat the insurance :scratchchin: ;) just kidding
prolly a V code car & someone hit the wrong letter :yesnod:
intresting that these miss stamped cars could have made it through inspections over the years !!
good picture , intresting , thanks for sharing :cheers: :popcrn: :scratchchin: :think:
Quote from: tan top on December 27, 2010, 08:44:59 AM
prolly a V code car & someone hit the wrong letter :yesnod:
You mean a typo?/? :scratchchin:
Quote from: tan top on December 27, 2010, 08:44:59 AM
prolly a V code car & someone hit the wrong letter :yesnod:
So why is this car "probably" a V Code because someone hit the wrong letter, but the CCR car cannot be a typo, or even the '70 500 Hemi?
And as for getting the big engine ordered in the base car to beat insurance, I would think that anyone with enough clout to make that happen within Chrysler would have had enough clout to be able to afford their insurance. Especially since the insurance thing was just beginning to take off at that time, it didn't hit full rape for about another year.
I am leaning very much to this car being a typo. Which still makes it a cool car.
Quote from: ccr-host on December 27, 2010, 01:30:20 AM(snip)
I don't see how a 427 Hemi would save insurance money over a 440. (snip)
Like Dan's typo here (I added the red), because I
know that after hanging around us Mopar guys for this long now that he is fully aware that the Hemi was 42
6 cubes and that the 427 thing was a size used by the enemy. ;)
Quote from: tan top on December 27, 2010, 08:44:59 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 27, 2010, 08:15:45 AM
Quote from: Chris G. on December 27, 2010, 08:09:48 AM
How would you "theorists" or "enthusiasts" or "experts" diagnose this?
and djcarguy...??? :shruggy:
Hey look a TYPO!!!! :rotz:
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=72866.0;attach=142840;image)
damn slant 6 in an R/T , see see to beat the insurance :scratchchin: ;) just kidding
prolly a V code car & someone hit the wrong letter :yesnod:
intresting that these miss stamped cars could have made it through inspections over the years !!
good picture , intresting , thanks for sharing :cheers: :popcrn: :scratchchin: :think:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 27, 2010, 11:09:19 AM
Quote from: tan top on December 27, 2010, 08:44:59 AM
prolly a V code car & someone hit the wrong letter :yesnod:
You mean a typo?/? :scratchchin:
YES :yesnod: because C & V are next to each other on the key board , but thinking that way , C code is a slant 6 engine code for 1970 & just as easy hit B code , which is a slant 6 for 69 , ! but the vin tag clearly shows 0 for 1970 !! hmm :scratchchin:
perhaps the S is the typo & it should say H or even P but these letters are not even close on a key board !! unless who ever was typing out the broad cast sheets or Vin plates , or what ever is done first , is crap at typing like me ! as i hit the wrong keys all the time :yesnod: :popcrn:
Quote from: Chris G. on December 27, 2010, 11:19:00 AM
Quote from: tan top on December 27, 2010, 08:44:59 AM
prolly a V code car & someone hit the wrong letter :yesnod:
So why is this car "probably" a V Code because someone hit the wrong letter, but the CCR car cannot be a typo, or even the '70 500 Hemi?
yes that could also !
it could very well be a typo :yesnod: , but it might not be :shruggy: :popcrn: :scratchchin:
Quote from: Ghoste on December 27, 2010, 12:13:04 PM
I am leaning very much to this car being a typo. Which still makes it a cool car.
If the grungy old 440 pulled from this car had a matching vin sequence it could help prove the "typo theory".
That's why I'm hoping Dan will obtain (and share) that info.
We're all hoping its still a real XP Hemi car..... :yesnod:
However, there's nothing wrong with owning the only "Typo Hemi XP", if that's what it turns out to be.
This car will always maintain its status as a significant piece of Mopar history regardless of whether a Hemi was installed in XP29J!
In some ways I think I would feel better if it were just a typo and the search could go on for the brochure car and have it turn out to be the only XP Hemi car. I don't know why, it's just the bizarre way my tiny mind works I guess? :shruggy:
Quote from: tan top on December 27, 2010, 12:51:48 PM
Quote from: tan top on December 27, 2010, 08:44:59 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 27, 2010, 08:15:45 AM
Quote from: Chris G. on December 27, 2010, 08:09:48 AM
How would you "theorists" or "enthusiasts" or "experts" diagnose this?
and djcarguy...??? :shruggy:
Hey look a TYPO!!!! :rotz:
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=72866.0;attach=142840;image)
damn slant 6 in an R/T , see see to beat the insurance :scratchchin: ;) just kidding
prolly a V code car & someone hit the wrong letter :yesnod:
intresting that these miss stamped cars could have made it through inspections over the years !!
good picture , intresting , thanks for sharing :cheers: :popcrn: :scratchchin: :think:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 27, 2010, 11:09:19 AM
Quote from: tan top on December 27, 2010, 08:44:59 AM
prolly a V code car & someone hit the wrong letter :yesnod:
You mean a typo?/? :scratchchin:
YES :yesnod: because C & V are next to each other on the key board , but thinking that way , C code is a slant 6 engine code for 1970 & just as easy hit B code , which is a slant 6 for 69 , ! but the vin tag clearly shows 0 for 1970 !! hmm :scratchchin:
perhaps the S is the typo & it should say H or even P but these letters are not even close on a key board !! unless who ever was typing out the broad cast sheets or Vin plates , or what ever is done first , is crap at typing like me ! as i hit the wrong keys all the time :yesnod: :popcrn:
Quote from: Chris G. on December 27, 2010, 11:19:00 AM
Quote from: tan top on December 27, 2010, 08:44:59 AM
prolly a V code car & someone hit the wrong letter :yesnod:
So why is this car "probably" a V Code because someone hit the wrong letter, but the CCR car cannot be a typo, or even the '70 500 Hemi?
yes that could also !
it could very well be a typo :yesnod: , but it might not be :shruggy: :popcrn: :scratchchin:
Of course it's a typo error. Chrysler scould have used spell-VIN-check check back then. Hell, even I banged the wrong letter out on the keyboard by mistake.........once. :lol:
Quote from: Richard Cranium on December 27, 2010, 01:50:27 PM
Of course it's a typo error. Chrysler scould have used spell-VIN-check check back then. Hell, even I banged the wrong letter out on the keyboard by mistake.........once. :lol:
Geeze could this be the second time? ;)
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 27, 2010, 04:19:19 PM
Quote from: Richard Cranium on December 27, 2010, 01:50:27 PM
Of course it's a typo error. Chrysler scould have used spell-VIN-check check back then. Hell, even I banged the wrong letter out on the keyboard by mistake.........once. :lol:
Geeze could this be the second time? ;)
Just seeing if anyone was awake! :smilielol:
Quote from: Richard Cranium on December 27, 2010, 01:50:27 PM
Quote from: tan top on December 27, 2010, 12:51:48 PM
Quote from: tan top on December 27, 2010, 08:44:59 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 27, 2010, 08:15:45 AM
Quote from: Chris G. on December 27, 2010, 08:09:48 AM
How would you "theorists" or "enthusiasts" or "experts" diagnose this?
and djcarguy...??? :shruggy:
Hey look a TYPO!!!! :rotz:
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=72866.0;attach=142840;image)
damn slant 6 in an R/T , see see to beat the insurance :scratchchin: ;) just kidding
prolly a V code car & someone hit the wrong letter :yesnod:
intresting that these miss stamped cars could have made it through inspections over the years !!
good picture , intresting , thanks for sharing :cheers: :popcrn: :scratchchin: :think:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 27, 2010, 11:09:19 AM
Quote from: tan top on December 27, 2010, 08:44:59 AM
prolly a V code car & someone hit the wrong letter :yesnod:
You mean a typo?/? :scratchchin:
YES :yesnod: because C & V are next to each other on the key board , but thinking that way , C code is a slant 6 engine code for 1970 & just as easy hit B code , which is a slant 6 for 69 , ! but the vin tag clearly shows 0 for 1970 !! hmm :scratchchin:
perhaps the S is the typo & it should say H or even P but these letters are not even close on a key board !! unless who ever was typing out the broad cast sheets or Vin plates , or what ever is done first , is crap at typing like me ! as i hit the wrong keys all the time :yesnod: :popcrn:
Quote from: Chris G. on December 27, 2010, 11:19:00 AM
Quote from: tan top on December 27, 2010, 08:44:59 AM
prolly a V code car & someone hit the wrong letter :yesnod:
So why is this car "probably" a V Code because someone hit the wrong letter, but the CCR car cannot be a typo, or even the '70 500 Hemi?
yes that could also !
it could very well be a typo :yesnod: , but it might not be :shruggy: :popcrn: :scratchchin:
Of course it's a typo error. Chrysler should have used spell-VIN-check check back then. Hell, even I banged the wrong letter out on the keyboard by mistake.........once. :lol:
It would have been nice if it was a factory /6 in a Charger RT platform (instead of just a VIN typo), as I would have given me another 70 Charger model to dream about for my oddball set. Oh well, I'm still looking for that unique /6 500SE that is out there somewhere....
Quote from: Ghoste on December 27, 2010, 12:16:14 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 27, 2010, 01:30:20 AM(snip)
I don't see how a 427 Hemi would save insurance money over a 440. (snip)
Like Dan's typo here (I added the red), because I know that after hanging around us Mopar guys for this long now that he is fully aware that the Hemi was 426 cubes and that the 427 thing was a size used by the enemy. ;)
Oh... I get busted for the CI, but not for calling it "unsurance"? ...Wow, tough roon! :icon_smile_blackeye:
:smilielol: :smilielol:
Quote from: ccr-host on December 28, 2010, 01:52:39 AM
Quote from: Ghoste on December 27, 2010, 12:16:14 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 27, 2010, 01:30:20 AM(snip)
I don't see how a 427 Hemi would save insurance money over a 440. (snip)
Like Dan's typo here (I added the red), because I know that after hanging around us Mopar guys for this long now that he is fully aware that the Hemi was 426 cubes and that the 427 thing was a size used by the enemy. ;)
Oh... I get busted for the CI, but not for calling it "unsurance"? ...Wow, tough roon! :icon_smile_blackeye:
Nah, we don't pick on typos....................
Much
One was a typo, the other was a slap in the face. :lol:
OK... So typo's aside. In all that fuss over the engine block numbers (I'll have them next week) and the possibility of the VIN being a typo, we did briefly mention the torque boxes. But, no one commented on why the XP has a 68 gas cap or the 68 headllight surrounds. That can't have anything to do with a typo on the tag (which I doubt it is). :icon_smile_question:
Well it appears that this car holds some mysterys that are yet to be solved Dan.
Even if it isn't THE brouchure car it's obvious that it was a pre production mongrel of some kind.
It may well have been some sort of experimental car that no one back then would have thought would bring such speculation 40 years later?
Quote from: ccr-host on December 29, 2010, 04:27:46 AM
OK... So typo's aside. In all that fuss over the engine block numbers (I'll have them next week) and the possibility of the VIN being a typo, we did briefly mention the torque boxes. But, no one commented on why the XP has a 68 gas cap or the 68 headllight surrounds. That can't have anything to do with a typo on the tag (which I doubt it is). :icon_smile_question:
that motor found in the car !! if 440 is not going to match the cars vin number !! well i doubt it very much !! ( miss type two letters on vin # :scratchchin:)... if it were a 383 motor that was found in it , then i would say it could !! reinforcing the fact that the J in the vin is a typo ! , but this car has torque boxes , although would not be the first time cars that should not have them ! had them & cars that should did not or only got part of !!
one i can think of , off the top of my head is the chromed out red 440 daytona !! & all documentation shows an L code , i believe !!
its been documented that a number of ebodys , have torque boxes where they should not & not fitted when they should have :shruggy: :scratchchin:
:scratchchin: :-\ , headlight bezels , can easily fitted at a later date , i have fitted them to mine !! 68 gas cap !! could of been fitted also , original one broke off, this was the only one available at the time !!
hard to to really say what has gone on through a cars life as we all know !!
when i asked a while back about torque boxes & it was said (yes) did the car have chassis rail to leafspringer hanger & pinion snubber reinforcement plates fitted!???? ,
this mystery could even be something as simple as the vin should read XS29J9B & the P being a typo , which i think this is the case :yesnod:
:scratchchin: :popcrn: awesome car & work gone in to it none the less !! :drool5: :drool5: :drool5: :coolgleamA: :2thumbs:
but my own personal view !! for what its worth ! :Twocents: :Twocents: :slap:
i think there is something going on with these J code XP cars , weather this is one or not :yesnod: :popcrn:
Quote from: ccr-host on December 29, 2010, 04:27:46 AM
OK... So typo's aside. In all that fuss over the engine block numbers (I'll have them next week) and the possibility of the VIN being a typo, we did briefly mention the torque boxes. But, no one commented on why the XP has a 68 gas cap or the 68 headllight surrounds. That can't have anything to do with a typo on the tag (which I doubt it is). :icon_smile_question:
We enthusiasts tend to snit-pick just the muscle cars, which is only a small portion of the total production of any given vehicle. Can you imagine how many more factory screw ups could be found if one were able to scrutinize the whole run of vehicles built?
Here's a perfect example of quality control, or lack thereof: One wiper is up and one is down and yet Mr. Pocket Protector is reading the funny papers. :lol:
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=31190.0;attach=49031;image)
And these guys don't exactly look like Rhodes Schollars...
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=31190.0;attach=49029;image)
Quote from: ccr-host on December 29, 2010, 04:27:46 AM
OK... So typo's aside. In all that fuss over the engine block numbers (I'll have them next week) and the possibility of the VIN being a typo, we did briefly mention the torque boxes. But, no one commented on why the XP has a 68 gas cap or the 68 headllight surrounds. That can't have anything to do with a typo on the tag (which I doubt it is). :icon_smile_question:
You mention '68 headlight surrounds...the car was wrecked back in the day and got a whole new front. It was also mentioned that the previous owner had multiple Chargers. Well everyone knows that guys with a collection of Chargers will mix and match parts all the time. This was back in the 80's when nobody cared.
To think this car had a legit XP VIN because of those two reasons you mentioned above is reaching don't 'ya think? I have no doubt this is a real Hemi car, but had a typo on the VIN. Still a rare Charger.
I am also curious if VIN's were stamped into the new engine and tranny that was put in the car? I am not sure what a 440 found in the car would have anything to do with anything???
And your thoughts on the VIN tag I posted above? It's a Slant 6 '70 R/T according to the VIN.
Quote from: Richard Cranium on December 29, 2010, 07:16:14 AM
One wiper is up and one is down and yet Mr. Pocket Protector is reading the funny papers. :lol:
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=31190.0;attach=49031;image)
Now that's funny! :haha: :haha: :haha:
for what it's worth. My Charger was in an accident back in the day and received a 68 front end... it was put on back when they where plentiful, I installed the 68 bezels because I love the look of em, and they just screw right on....hmmm, maybe because I have a 68 rad support now? I installed the torque boxes because they added strength...
I'm sure others have done the same, they are old cars.
How about this for a VIN typo?
Quote from: Chris G. on December 29, 2010, 07:50:46 AM
I am not sure what a 440 found in the car would have anything to do with anything???
If a "numbers matching" 440 was pulled... then an actual vin error occured. Without the numbers matching block, (hemi or otherwise) nobody knows. :shruggy:
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on December 29, 2010, 10:43:14 AM
How about this for a VIN typo?
LMAO! thats great, must have been a Friday night build at around 4:55pm heheh
Quote from: Chris G. on December 29, 2010, 07:50:46 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 29, 2010, 04:27:46 AM
OK... So typo's aside. In all that fuss over the engine block numbers (I'll have them next week) and the possibility of the VIN being a typo, we did briefly mention the torque boxes. But, no one commented on why the XP has a 68 gas cap or the 68 headllight surrounds. That can't have anything to do with a typo on the tag (which I doubt it is). :icon_smile_question:
You mention '68 headlight surrounds...the car was wrecked back in the day and got a whole new front. It was also mentioned that the previous owner had multiple Chargers. Well everyone knows that guys with a collection of Chargers will mix and match parts all the time. This was back in the 80's when nobody cared.
To think this car had a legit XP VIN because of those two reasons you mentioned above is reaching don't 'ya think? I have no doubt this is a real Hemi car, but had a typo on the VIN. Still a rare Charger.
I am also curious if VIN's were stamped into the new engine and tranny that was put in the car? I am not sure what a 440 found in the car would have anything to do with anything???
And your thoughts on the VIN tag I posted above? It's a Slant 6 '70 R/T according to the VIN.
Chris - I think it was stamped this way on purpose, as we have yet to find one bit of poof of it being an R/T. The rear decal was hand drilled, and there is no evidence of the stripe. Plus the filler cap, and numerous other things like the rear view mirror, door handles, etc. WHO KNOWS? But one thing is for sure. You cannot deny what the VIN says, nor can you say it is an R/T because there is NO proof that it is.
Shafi Keisler
Quote from: ccr-host on December 29, 2010, 04:27:46 AM
OK... So typo's aside. In all that fuss over the engine block numbers (I'll have them next week) and the possibility of the VIN being a typo, we did briefly mention the torque boxes. But, no one commented on why the XP has a 68 gas cap or the 68 headllight surrounds. That can't have anything to do with a typo on the tag (which I doubt it is). :icon_smile_question:
Dan - check Galen's report and you will find the numbers and his statement that the engine is an unstamped 1970 warranty block. Also check the 727 auto to see if there is any mention of the VIN. We can still get them if needed.
Quote from: KEISLER on December 29, 2010, 07:39:19 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 29, 2010, 04:27:46 AM
OK... So typo's aside. In all that fuss over the engine block numbers (I'll have them next week) and the possibility of the VIN being a typo, we did briefly mention the torque boxes. But, no one commented on why the XP has a 68 gas cap or the 68 headllight surrounds. That can't have anything to do with a typo on the tag (which I doubt it is). :icon_smile_question:
Dan - check Galen's report and you will find the numbers and his statement that the engine is an unstamped 1970 warranty block. Also check the 727 auto to see if there is any mention of the VIN. We can still get them if needed.
At this point....with an unstamped block and no buildsheet - nobody can prove what engine it was actually built with.
The car is still surrounded in mystery "typo" or not. It's just like any other undocumented car. It's missing the "rock-solid" well documented paper trail. :-\
Sorry to be the heavy. :'(
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 29, 2010, 08:33:20 PM
Sorry to be the heavy. :'(
There's that word again... heavy. Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the earth's gravitational pull?
-Doc Brown
:lol:
Quote from: Richard Cranium on December 29, 2010, 09:25:55 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 29, 2010, 08:33:20 PM
Sorry to be the heavy. :'(
There's that word again... heavy. Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the earth's gravitational pull?
-Doc Brown
:lol:
:smilielol:
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 29, 2010, 08:33:20 PM
Quote from: KEISLER on December 29, 2010, 07:39:19 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 29, 2010, 04:27:46 AM
OK... So typo's aside. In all that fuss over the engine block numbers (I'll have them next week) and the possibility of the VIN being a typo, we did briefly mention the torque boxes. But, no one commented on why the XP has a 68 gas cap or the 68 headllight surrounds. That can't have anything to do with a typo on the tag (which I doubt it is). :icon_smile_question:
Dan - check Galen's report and you will find the numbers and his statement that the engine is an unstamped 1970 warranty block. Also check the 727 auto to see if there is any mention of the VIN. We can still get them if needed.
At this point....with an unstamped block and no buildsheet - nobody can prove what engine it was actually built with.
The car is still surrounded in mystery "typo" or not. It's just like any other undocumented car. It's missing the "rock-solid" well documented paper trail. :-\
Sorry to be the heavy. :'(
Tufcat,
You're not being a heavy. I'm not going to be disappointed no matter which way it goes; brochure/promo car/odd-ball. The beauty in this car is the look and how well it recreates the 69 brochure photo. The value of the car is a given, in that there were only 227 Hemi 4 speeds made in 69. The mystery just adds to its value. IMO.
:iagree: :iagree:
Quote from: Richard Cranium on December 29, 2010, 07:16:14 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on December 29, 2010, 04:27:46 AM
OK... So typo's aside. In all that fuss over the engine block numbers (I'll have them next week) and the possibility of the VIN being a typo, we did briefly mention the torque boxes. But, no one commented on why the XP has a 68 gas cap or the 68 headlight surrounds. That can't have anything to do with a typo on the tag (which I doubt it is). :icon_smile_question:
We enthusiasts tend to snit-pick just the muscle cars, which is only a small portion of the total production of any given vehicle. Can you imagine how many more factory screw ups could be found if one were able to scrutinize the whole run of vehicles built?
Here's a perfect example of quality control, or lack thereof: One wiper is up and one is down and yet Mr. Pocket Protector is reading the funny papers. :lol:
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=31190.0;attach=49031;image)
Can't help but wonder if that is on purpose? Like they do in a car wash line, leave the lights flashing etc... to tell others down the line what needs to be done?
Quote from: ccr-host on December 29, 2010, 10:59:20 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 29, 2010, 08:33:20 PM
Quote from: KEISLER on December 29, 2010, 07:39:19 PM
[quote author=ccr-host link=topic=72866.
You're not being a heavy. I'm not going to be disappointed no matter which way it goes; brochure/promo car/odd-ball. The beauty in this car is the look and how well it recreates the 69 brochure photo. The value of the car is a given, in that there were only 227 Hemi 4 speeds made in 69. The mystery just adds to its value. IMO.
Dan could your car be number 228 ? Maybe only the r/t's were counted for that 227 number or maybe there were only 226 hemi r/t's built with a 4 speed and your car is number 227???
Who counted them and how were they counted? Did someone add up all the j codes in the vin numbers, no that wouldnt that work no trans code in a vin number... :brickwall:
:eek2:
Dan,
The only thing I can say about the fuel filler cap is that my 69 charger had the 68 style also when I got my car. It was obviously changed out at one point. Same could be possibly true with that car. Same with the headlight surrounds. Just a thought.
Either way, still a cool car!
the door handles were 68 also wern't they. not an item that gets changed frequently :2thumbs:
Quote from: nvrbdn on December 30, 2010, 11:04:50 PM
the door handles were 68 also wern't they. not an item that gets changed frequently :2thumbs:
yep early build 69 , with an SPD of late 68 cars had black button door handles :yesnod:
:iagree:
Quote from: tan top on December 31, 2010, 04:10:18 AM
Quote from: nvrbdn on December 30, 2010, 11:04:50 PM
the door handles were 68 also wern't they. not an item that gets changed frequently :2thumbs:
yep early build 69 , with an SPD of late 68 cars had black button door handles :yesnod:
:iagree:
Quote from: TUFCAT on December 26, 2010, 09:27:33 PM
Quote from: Magnumcharger on December 26, 2010, 09:20:00 PM
Being a Charger enthusiast, I am aware of other Chargers that exist, but were never supposed to "be"....
The first would be the 1968 Hemi Charger 500 that we all are infinitely aware of. Obviously, this was a pre-production "prototype" for the upcoming 1969 Grand National Stock Car crowd.
It's just as unusual as any XP Charger could be, and it too was used for promotional purposes and advertising. In fact, not only is it a 1968 model instead of 1969, it's an XS instead of the later 500's XX.
(Yes, I know some '69's were XS too.)
And then, there is the XP 1970 Hemi Charger. It's been mentioned on this blog several times over the years, and it too survives.
Also, was there not a particular 1970 Hemi Road Runner found a couple of years ago that was verified as being the actual car used in the Rapid Transit Ads?
Why are we questioning the possibility of this car being produced for what may well be exactly what we surmised all along?
It could very well be what we think it is.
You are correct....never say "never" when it comes to Chrysler vehicle history. :icon_smile_wink:
Nobody can say 100% without a doubt that a production 1969 XP (factory Hemi equipped) Charger was ever built....
We DO know for sure that Chrysler built and sold a 1969 Charger with this VIN number because it absolutely exists today. :iagree:
Yes, you are also correct that other mystery cars have been found and "solved" over the years...but it doesn't help solve this case. This car could actually be the only real XP29J - and that would be totally cool! :icon_smile_cool: It already has the VIN....and would be rock solid if the original numbers matching Hemi was still sitting between the frame rails. :yesnod: :yesnod: Unfortunately, this hasn't been proven.
Claiming authenticity based on the fact that other factory oddity's have been found to exist just isn't enough anymore. :cheers:
BTW, you mentioned the 1968 Hemi Charger 500 pre-production "prototype" shown in the picture. Does it still exist today?
Engineering cars should not have been sold to the general public unless they could returned to "new model" condition. Obviously a 1968 Charger dressed as a 1969 Charger 500 could not have been easily returned to "new model" condition. These cars were supposed to be shipped to the proving grounds and then crushed/scraped. At least those were the rules....nobody knows for sure if the rules were always followed? :D
In fact, the 1968/69 Charger 500 prototype does still exist, and is owned by Mr. Jerry Service in Detroit, Michigan.
Ahhh! Just nother OneofNoneRT!! :smilielol: Never say it can not be...
It seems to me that the CCR Charger could have been a 383 car. There is just as much probability (if not more) of it being a 383 Charger rather than a hemi charger. :shruggy:
Nobody knows because there is such a lack of documentation. One thing for sure is that it is a Charger. :icon_smile_big:
It's been an excellent showcase for the products used and provided much better tv entertainment than most of the crap out there. It has also been an excellent topic of debate and Charger history. It's done better in the world of today than Dodge likely ever thought it would.
Quote from: Ghoste on January 01, 2011, 10:27:39 AM
It's been an excellent showcase for the products used and provided much better tv entertainment than most of the crap out there. It has also been an excellent topic of debate and Charger history. It's done better in the world of today than Dodge likely ever thought it would.
:iagree: :2thumbs:
Amen brother! :cheers:
Bottom line.... everyone of us would like to be the proud owner of this car. :bow:
Quote from: Blakcharger440 on January 01, 2011, 10:18:49 AM
It seems to me that the CCR Charger could have been a 383 car. There is just as much probability (if not more) of it being a 383 Charger rather than a hemi charger. :shruggy:
Nobody knows because there is such a lack of documentation. One thing for sure is that it is a Charger. :icon_smile_big:
There is one key document still with the car... a VIN with a "J" code. That says Hemi to me! How could there be any probability of it being a 383 with a "J" code? Every other feature on the car is a Charger.
Typo.
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 01, 2011, 05:04:57 PM
Amen brother! :cheers:
Bottom line.... everyone of us would like to be the proud owner of this car. :bow:
Not me, but I am not 'everyone'.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 02, 2011, 01:57:11 AM
Quote from: Blakcharger440 on January 01, 2011, 10:18:49 AM
It seems to me that the CCR Charger could have been a 383 car. There is just as much probability (if not more) of it being a 383 Charger rather than a hemi charger. :shruggy:
Nobody knows because there is such a lack of documentation. One thing for sure is that it is a Charger. :icon_smile_big:
There is one key document still with the car... a VIN with a "J" code. That says Hemi to me! How could there be any probability of it being a 383 with a "J" code? Every other feature on the car is a Charger.
Did they make VIN mistakes? Oh yes. See some examples at http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/factoryErrors.shtml
My favorite is the J code (340 sixpak for 1970) VIN error with the E61 engine code which was the 383-2-barrel engine.
Does it make you wonder if the fender tag & broadcast sheet 'disappeared' for the XP car due to the J VIN on the dash? Maybe the other missing items did not agree with it? :shruggy:
We may never know. :scratchchin:
Quote from: resq302 on December 31, 2010, 08:05:06 AM
:iagree:Quote from: tan top on December 31, 2010, 04:10:18 AM
Quote from: nvrbdn on December 30, 2010, 11:04:50 PM
the door handles were 68 also wern't they. not an item that gets changed frequently :2thumbs:
yep early build 69 , with an SPD of late 68 cars had black button door handles :yesnod:
:iagree:
69's with an SPD as late as Jan 69 can have black buttons :Twocents:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,69527.msg780332.html#msg780332 (http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,69527.msg780332.html#msg780332)
/Brian
Quote from: Ghoste on January 02, 2011, 02:20:15 AM
Typo.
Naw... There's just too much Hemi product on the car. I'll go with the idea there's a high likelyhood that it's not the actual brochure car. It's likely a second car built for promotion. But, not a Hemi? Hell no! I'd bet dollars to donuts it had a Hemi in it... at some point. And the nice thing is, it does again! That "typo" makes perfect sense now. :yesnod: :icon_smile_wink:
On monday, we'll have the engine block info and we'll see what that news stirs up! More excitement on the way... :2thumbs:
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 01, 2011, 05:04:57 PM
Amen brother! :cheers:
Bottom line.... everyone of us would like to be the proud owner of this car. :bow:
Interesting how there's not as many jabs about "Chop Cut Ruin" being posted since more episodes and the car has been completed, huh??? See, people should never assume anything! :icon_smile_big:
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on January 02, 2011, 05:07:20 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 02, 2011, 01:57:11 AM
Quote from: Blakcharger440 on January 01, 2011, 10:18:49 AM
It seems to me that the CCR Charger could have been a 383 car. There is just as much probability (if not more) of it being a 383 Charger rather than a hemi charger. :shruggy:
Nobody knows because there is such a lack of documentation. One thing for sure is that it is a Charger. :icon_smile_big:
There is one key document still with the car... a VIN with a "J" code. That says Hemi to me! How could there be any probability of it being a 383 with a "J" code? Every other feature on the car is a Charger.
Did they make VIN mistakes? Oh yes. See some examples at http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/factoryErrors.shtml
My favorite is the J code (340 sixpak for 1970) VIN error with the E61 engine code which was the 383-2-barrel engine.
Does it make you wonder if the fender tag & broadcast sheet 'disappeared' for the XP car due to the J VIN on the dash? Maybe the other missing items did not agree with it? :shruggy:
We may never know. :scratchchin:
Alaskan, you still don't have a TV, do you?
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on January 02, 2011, 04:50:42 AM
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 01, 2011, 05:04:57 PM
Amen brother! :cheers:
Bottom line.... everyone of us would like to be the proud owner of this car. :bow:
Not me, but I am not 'everyone'.
:iagree: Yeah, I don't want it either.
Then again, I don't like any of the cars "built" on these "Pimp my ride"/"Foose it up" style TV shows.
Do I watch these shows?
Sure I do...
Who can resist a train wreck. :shruggy:
you guys are saying that if they walked up to you and handed you the keys you would say "NO THANKS" :shruggy: just because it has alot of aftermarket pieces in it? (which includes tons of cars on this site) or because someone said mabey its a car that it very well couldnt turn out to be? or is it because lots of different shops were involved with the build using parts for free as an advertisement for those companies? well if someone would have offered me free parts i would have taken them. and if they wanted to do alot of the work i would have let them. and id take the car or the help in a heartbeat. :2thumbs:
Quote from: nvrbdn on January 02, 2011, 10:37:36 AM
you guys are saying that if they walked up to you and handed you the keys you would say "NO THANKS" :shruggy: just because it has alot of aftermarket pieces in it? (which includes tons of cars on this site) or because someone said mabey its a car that it very well couldnt turn out to be? or is it because lots of different shops were involved with the build using parts for free as an advertisement for those companies? well if someone would have offered me free parts i would have taken them. and if they wanted to do alot of the work i would have let them. and id take the car or the help in a heartbeat. :2thumbs:
If it were given to me, It would be on E-bay five minutes after the roll back dumped it off in my
driveway.
No reserve.
Quote from: Daytona R/T SE on January 02, 2011, 10:25:10 AM
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on January 02, 2011, 04:50:42 AM
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 01, 2011, 05:04:57 PM
Amen brother! :cheers:
Bottom line.... everyone of us would like to be the proud owner of this car. :bow:
Not me, but I am not 'everyone'.
:iagree: Yeah, I don't want it either.
Then again, I don't like any of the cars "built" on these "Pimp my ride"/"Foose it up" style TV shows.
Do I watch these shows?
Sure I do...
Who can resist a train wreck. :shruggy:
Something tells me you haven't watched THIS show or looked closely at the car. This Charger is neither "Pimped" or "Foosed Up". It was built in 8 months - NOT 8 days.
"All Indians walk in a straight line. At least the one I saw did.", huh? ::)
Quote from: ccr-host on January 02, 2011, 10:58:47 AM
It was built in 8 months - NOT 8 days.
"All Indians walk in a straight line. At least the one I saw did.", huh? ::)
how many Mexican's? :nana:
I think Foose has about 30 ;)
kidding, im kidding ;)
I've watched the show,
Read every post here.
Too much hype over a typographical error.
I still don't want it. :eek2:
Just my opinion.
Not the "popular" opinion, but still valid.
Quote from: Daytona R/T SE on January 02, 2011, 10:41:35 AM
If it were given to me, It would be on E-bay five minutes after the roll back dumped it off in my
driveway.
No reserve.
Now that's funny, but I'd also do the same thing. :lol:
Forgive me if I missed it but were the hemi k frames different I know the motor mounts are.
Dan what motor mounts and k frame came out of the car?
I want to believe it's the real deal and it may be :scratchchin:
Those are all interesting comments. We try very hard to not be a "Pimp My Ride" or "Overhaulin'" type series. No fake drama. No disfunctional personalities. We try to make the content about the process - not the princesses. Yet, many people paint us with the same brush as those shows. It's a phenomenon I only see among the automotive community. Shows on the Food Network are considered to create some of the best meals you can find. Shows like "Iron Chef", have all sorts of fake drama, yet the meals are never slammed by viewers. Home improvement shows get the same treatment as those programs and they turn around an entire house in a week, with little criticsism of the quality in the work. That said, I've also watched a few cop movies with cops and they cringe when they see Bruce Willis kick down a door and rush into a crack house. I know there are some car people who would watch the narration of a Chilton book and find it entertaining. So, the question is... What WOULD move us from the "Foose/Pimp" stereotype? What would make someone look at our projects and say "I want that in my driveway"? Keep in mind, the audience for the Chilton book is extremely small and probably not viable on television.
Quote from: thedodgeboys on January 02, 2011, 11:17:40 AM
Forgive me if I missed it but were the hemi k frames different I know the motor mounts are.
Dan what motor mounts and k frame came out of the car?
I want to believe it's the real deal and it may be :scratchchin:
It's a completely different K frame for a 440. But, I'm told it was a common swap.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 02, 2011, 11:29:06 AM
Those are all interesting comments. We try very hard to not be a "Pimp My Ride" or "Overhaulin'" type series. No fake drama. No disfunctional personalities. We try to make the content about the process - not the princesses. Yet, many people paint us with the same brush as those shows. It's a phenomenon I only see among the automotive community. Shows on the Food Network are considered to create some of the best meals you can find. Shows like "Iron Chef", have all sorts of fake drama, yet the meals are never slammed by viewers. Home improvement shows get the same treatment as those programs and they turn around an entire house in a week, with little criticsism of the quality in the work. That said, I've also watched a few cop movies with cops and they cringe when they see Bruce Willis kick down a door and rush into a crack house. I know there are some car people who would watch the narration of a Chilton book and find it entertaining. So, the question is... What WOULD move us from the "Foose/Pimp" stereotype? What would make someone look at our projects and say "I want that in my driveway"? Keep in mind, the audience for the Chilton book is extremely small and probably not viable on television.
hey hey hey hey........... do what you want to the Charger
but no picking on Bruce Willis ;)
Quote from: ccr-host on January 02, 2011, 11:29:06 AM
Those are all interesting comments. We try very hard to not be a "Pimp My Ride" or "Overhaulin'" type series. No fake drama. No disfunctional personalities. We try to make the content about the process - not the princesses. Yet, many people paint us with the same brush as those shows. It's a phenomenon I only see among the automotive community. Shows on the Food Network are considered to create some of the best meals you can find. Shows like "Iron Chef", have all sorts of fake drama, yet the meals are never slammed by viewers. Home improvement shows get the same treatment as those programs and they turn around an entire house in a week, with little criticsism of the quality in the work. That said, I've also watched a few cop movies with cops and they cringe when they see Bruce Willis kick down a door and rush into a crack house. I know there are some car people who would watch the narration of a Chilton book and find it entertaining. So, the question is... What WOULD move us from the "Foose/Pimp" stereotype? What would make someone look at our projects and say "I want that in my driveway"? Keep in mind, the audience for the Chilton book is extremely small and probably not viable on television.
You're not likely to find the answer you want here... 30+ pages and there's still a group that won't stop beating the dead horse. :shruggy: I'm glad your show decided to do the Charger for Shafi. It's all good to me... some just can't let it go. Hey I'm glad I got to shake your hand back at the Mopar Nats when you had the 'Cuda.
Aside from that, there's a few aspects where things turn many car folks off... there are groups that are change resistant and don't want to see modifications like bigger wheels or big sound systems to name a few - some of them still like manual drum brakes, hub caps, and bias ply tires for all that matters. The song says...
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself"... good advice!
As for food shows and the like, all people can do is judge by the mess on the plate... unless somebody finds a recipe and makes it themselves or goes to that certain restaurant what else is there to judge by? If there's a hot babe host that certainly makes it easier to digest :icon_smile_big:
And again, thanks for not being an OCC type show. I'm not too far from their shop(s) and I've been hearing stories for years now although I do support some of the charity work (ie: car shows) they run there occassionally. Some of your competitor auto shows tried that personality show route were and have been even more savagely beaten upon on this and other sites.
XP HEMI was a factory hemi car. 383 cars don't get torque boxes from the factory.
Don't know what all the excitement is over the 440 & 727. It's a 1970 motor with C-body manifolds - no big whoop.
Let's hope 2011 will bring us some credible information from Chrysler ex-employees/execs/contractors that remember the brochure car.
Quote from: KEISLER on January 02, 2011, 12:14:20 PM
XP HEMI was a factory hemi car. 383 cars don't get torque boxes from the factory.
Don't know what all the excitement is over the 440 & 727. It's a 1970 motor with C-body manifolds - no big whoop.
Let's hope 2011 will bring us some credible information from Chrysler ex-employees/execs/contractors that remember the brochure car.
Are you still looking into the history of the car? To see if it was the brochure car or have you decided its close enough. :popcrn:
As far as you know personally, no 383 cars were built with torque boxes. There are all kinds of things we can all assume all the rest of our lives but until some form of documentation comes up, it is all just speculation and every guess is equally valid.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 02, 2011, 06:07:42 AM
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 01, 2011, 05:04:57 PM
Amen brother! :cheers:
Bottom line.... everyone of us would like to be the proud owner of this car. :bow:
Interesting how there's not as many jabs about "Chop Cut Ruin" being posted since more episodes and the car has been completed, huh??? See, people should never assume anything! :icon_smile_big:
Or some of us who aren't that crazy about the general direction of the car were just mature enough to know that making our point and leaving it is enough. Afterall whats done is done and at the end of the day it is Keisler's car to do whatever he wishes with. Me whining endlessly about the wheels or something doesn't change it. Although I also have to admit your show is different from the typical Foose type junk and it did go a much different way than I first thought myself. The title might have something to do with public perception? The overwhelming and tiresome number of "reality" shows out there have likely left a lot of guys jaded too. I don't know though, it's just my opinion, you're the entertainment expert. :lol:
i'd be proud to own and fry the tires off of this car . it's not a cheaply built car but i see why some of the purists have problems with it .
now , my complaint is with the format of your show . although you've gotten better.
i use to tivo ccr but i got fed up with the on air interviews . every time your explaining something you cut to someone sitting there talking . who cares what they look like . show the work being done or the parts , anything but more people talking . it bothered me so much that i stopped tivo-ing it . i came back to see the charger build and like i said it seems like you guys realized it a bit cause you got a little better this season. Car Crazy does that too but there show is a bout the car people . yours is about the projects . i might start tivo-ing ccr again . :Twocents:
Quote from: Ghoste on January 02, 2011, 12:31:25 PM
As far as you know personally, no 383 cars were built with torque boxes. There are all kinds of things we can all assume all the rest of our lives but until some form of documentation comes up, it is all just speculation and every guess is equally valid.
Both of the original XP HEMI doors are intact, and show they are factory HEMI-badged doors. Galen saw this for himself. It's not a 383 car.
I guess that's all the proof thats needed then.
Quote from: BigBlockSam on January 02, 2011, 12:44:39 PM
i'd be proud to own and fry the tires off of this car . it's not a cheaply built car but i see why some of the purists have problems with it .
now , my complaint is with the format of your show . although you've gotten better.
i use to tivo ccr but i got fed up with the on air interviews . every time your explaining something you cut to someone sitting there talking . who cares what they look like . show the work being done or the parts , anything but more people talking . it bothered me so much that i stopped tivo-ing it . i came back to see the charger build and like i said it seems like you guys realized it a bit cause you got a little better this season. Car Crazy does that too but there show is a bout the car people . yours is about the projects . i might start tivo-ing ccr again . :Twocents:
You have a very good eye! Yes, we have shortened the face time for the interviews. As a rule, we only have the interview/closeups on screen for 3 to 5 seconds. Just long enough to establish who is talking. Generally, those interviews explain the process. They also explain the challenges (if any) and/or the ease of a part installation. I don't do the interviews because the show is actually a video diary and my comments are the narrative of the day. The interviews are a common feature of documentary style. Although, they have been bastardized by many shows like American Chopper to express feelings of anger or frustration about the personalities of others instead of explaining the process of their builds.
I've always believed that television is the highest form of imitation. By that I mean a hit show will be analyzed to death in search of its "formula". That formula is then applied to another concept and... Voila; a new series is born! This new dysfunctional "follow doc" format being used by many shows (mostly Discovery Channel stuff), all came from Monster Garage. That series was so successful, Jessie James was earning a million dollars a month just on T-shirt sales at Wal-Mart. Every show that followed had the cast standing in the openning segment with arms crossed, looking like they were a prison welcoming committee. It was laughable. But, I have to admit I used it on Street Tuner Challenge and it works.
Since it's probably fair to say the car itself and the show are a linked topic in this case do you mind if I ask how the format of the show is arrived at? Is it a committee, is it primarily your own decision, is it episode by episode? Do you map things out a season ahead or tweak constantly? Are you watching the other programs continually to see what works? Do you duplicate what works or strive for new ground?
These may be all obvious or stupid questions to you but it's a mystery to me so...
Quote from: Ghoste on January 02, 2011, 02:15:26 PM
Since it's probably fair to say the car itself and the show are a linked topic in this case do you mind if I ask how the format of the show is arrived at? Is it a committee, is it primarily your own decision, is it episode by episode? Do you map things out a season ahead or tweak constantly? Are you watching the other programs continually to see what works? Do you duplicate what works or strive for new ground?
These may be all obvious or stupid questions to you but it's a mystery to me so...
The ultimate say in our content belongs to SPEED. However, because I've been packaging for the network since 97, I have much more room to modify content with very little interference. Our ratings have increased every year, so they tend to let sleeping dogs lie. Prior to production, we meet with the car's owner and the key builders to develop a build schedule for the season. The primary objective is to avoid repetitive content. If car 1 is doing brakes in episode 5, we don't want the same content to happen on car 2 in the same episode. Where it gets tricky is during bodywork. Trying to avoid the "All Sanding" episode is a challenge. I have a reoccurring nightmare where I say "Join us next time when we change to 2,000 grit. It's going to be a thrill a minute" – then the network calls and cancels the show.
I think there have been three very strong influences on CCR. The "Rides" series impressed me a great deal with its documentary structure, although it was short lived. And Mike Rowe's "Dirty Jobs" series is an influence on my hosting, although I'm not as focused on "pooh" as he is, there has been more of a move to inject humor in the series than when we started. Mike has taken that Tim Allen character style and made it work very well. The third would be the series I worked on in Canada, "Degrassi". I had the pleasure of being a cast member from day one and it has given a great influence on how I produce. They never kept the content of one episode as stand alone. It's a soap opera format and I think it works very well to build a loyal audience. Chop Cut is very much a soap opera for car guys. Degrassi has been in production since 1986 and it follows a format similar to "Coronation Street", from the BBC. Even "This Old House" has been a factor in how we packaged the show. I cringe now when I look at episodes of my old "Classic Car Restorations" series we made for Speedvision and I see my Bob Villa beard and a plaid shirt. Aarughhh!
That's good stuff Dan thanks for the in site :2thumbs:
Mike Rowe is GOD...
sorry for all my non sequitur, but I am who I am ;-)
From intial idea to filming to wrap to first and final airing- how long?
Quote from: Khyron on January 02, 2011, 04:18:00 PM
Mike Rowe is GOD...
Mike does a great job with his show but I can't stand that guy who hosts Gearz. Whenever he opens his yap (actually, he never shuts it), I just want to whack him upside the head with a shovel.
Quote from: Ghoste on January 02, 2011, 04:46:26 PM
From intial idea to filming to wrap to first and final airing- how long?
It's usually around 10 months because we're a small production company. 2 editors, two camera ops, one soundperson, and intern, a producer/director, and moi. We've packaged a season in less time but, this seems to be a nice pace. We're still editing the final episode.
will we get a new episode next weekend? been 2 weeks without :shruggy: the wife is noticing withdrawls. :rotz:
Quote from: nvrbdn on January 02, 2011, 05:18:42 PM
will we get a new episode next weekend? been 2 weeks without :shruggy: the wife is noticing withdrawls. :rotz:
Yes, I believe it's new episodes every week until the first week of February... Then, I'm unemployed again. :eek2:
You aren't already planning the next season?
Quote from: Ghoste on January 03, 2011, 09:18:34 AM
You aren't already planning the next season?
I think they broke the bank with the Charger. :eek2: :lol:
Quote from: Ghoste on January 03, 2011, 09:18:34 AM
You aren't already planning the next season?
Yes, it never stops! Classic Industries is back with a GM product and we're trying to nail down the second project from a short list of potentials... The Mopar community may yet have more reasons to keep watching CCR!
Quote from: ccr-host on January 03, 2011, 02:16:51 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on January 03, 2011, 09:18:34 AM
You aren't already planning the next season?
Yes, it never stops! Classic Industries is back with a GM product and we're trying to nail down the second project from a short list of potentials... The Mopar community may yet have more reasons to keep watching CCR!
Do a winged car......or a B body convertible.
i got a b-body and a wing car replica project's that need finishing . if your looking for a good project to do . :D
The 68 Charger 500 prototype was shown at the Detroit Autorama for years in the 1970's...all chromed up. I have an incredible memory.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 03, 2011, 02:16:51 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on January 03, 2011, 09:18:34 AM
You aren't already planning the next season?
Yes, it never stops! Classic Industries is back with a GM product and we're trying to nail down the second project from a short list of potentials... The Mopar community may yet have more reasons to keep watching CCR!
build a rat rod :-)
Quote from: Khyron on January 03, 2011, 05:10:39 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 03, 2011, 02:16:51 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on January 03, 2011, 09:18:34 AM
You aren't already planning the next season?
Yes, it never stops! Classic Industries is back with a GM product and we're trying to nail down the second project from a short list of potentials... The Mopar community may yet have more reasons to keep watching CCR!
build a rat rod :-)
Then what would we do for the next 8 episodes????
I'm very good at impressionist mime and I also have great "Jazz Hands". :lol:
:smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol: :yesnod:
Quote from: ccr-host on January 03, 2011, 07:22:10 PM
Then what would we do for the next 8 episodes????
I'm very good at impressionist mime and I also have great "Jazz Hands". :lol:
LMAO! thats great heheh
Quote from: Richard Cranium on January 02, 2011, 04:52:58 PM
Quote from: Khyron on January 02, 2011, 04:18:00 PM
Mike Rowe is GOD...
Mike does a great job with his show but I can't stand that guy who hosts Gearz. Whenever he opens his yap (actually, he never shuts it), I just want to whack him upside the head with a shovel.
I like Stacy David. He knows his stuff. I love the Banshee project!
Quote from: ccr-host on January 03, 2011, 07:22:10 PM
I'm very good at impressionist mime and I also have great "Jazz Hands". :lol:
Ummm yeah... ooooooooooooooooooookkk.
You can take the Canadian out of Canada but........
QuoteI like Stacy David
yea me too . :cheers:
Quote from: BigBlockSam on January 03, 2011, 09:57:22 PM
QuoteI like Stacy David
yea me too . :cheers:
Stacy is a great guy! He DOES know his stuff! :2thumbs: ...But, I'm a triple threat: cars, plus song and dance. :icon_smile_big:
QuoteBut, I'm a triple threat: cars, plus song and dance
Stacy plays guitar too :lol:
I have a project car or two just screaming to have a hemi transplanted :icon_smile_big:
those are two kick ass projects too :drool5:
We may be in the market to buy a POS Duster or Demon... Anyone have one (or two) they want to part with? :icon_smile_question:
A Demon project would be cool.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 04, 2011, 08:42:22 PM
We may be in the market to buy a POS Duster or Demon... Anyone have one (or two) they want to part with? :icon_smile_question:
i
I know where to get a 71 340 Duster, 4 gear car, B5 blue with white interior. Just outside Ottawa.
i know of a duster in the st.louis area. guy wants 3000.
Dan, if I donate a 71 Duster can I have it back after your done with it?
Quote from: thedodgeboys on January 04, 2011, 11:46:48 PM
Dan, if I donate a 71 Duster can I have it back after your done with it?
If you want to pay to have it restored, yes! :yesnod:
Quote from: Back N Black on January 04, 2011, 09:34:10 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 04, 2011, 08:42:22 PM
We may be in the market to buy a POS Duster or Demon... Anyone have one (or two) they want to part with? :icon_smile_question:
i
I know where to get a 71 340 Duster, 4 gear car, B5 blue with white interior. Just outside Ottawa.
Geez, a Canadian car??? I'll have to ask if AMD makes complete floors, fenders, trunks, and rear quarters... Then we'll be getting into that whole VIN number/kit car argument again. :brickwall:
The St. Louis Duster sounds interesting. For 3K I would expect the car to have something more than a firewall though.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 02:22:34 AM
Quote from: Back N Black on January 04, 2011, 09:34:10 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 04, 2011, 08:42:22 PM
We may be in the market to buy a POS Duster or Demon... Anyone have one (or two) they want to part with? :icon_smile_question:
i
I know where to get a 71 340 Duster, 4 gear car, B5 blue with white interior. Just outside Ottawa.
Geez, a Canadian car??? I'll have to ask if AMD makes complete floors, fenders, trunks, and rear quarters... Then we'll be getting into that whole VIN number/kit car argument again. :brickwall:
The St. Louis Duster sounds interesting. For 3K I would expect the car to have something more than a firewall though.
Naw it's just a Duster....nobody here will care. You can get a 6cyl car with a good body for that price. Example - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1-owner-1973-96k-original-miles-/250747746055?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a61baf707#ht_500wt_930
Quote from: The70RT on January 05, 2011, 08:04:48 AM
Naw it's just a Duster....nobody here will care.
best answer ever! LOL
I will have to say though, you get ahold of a 72 Demon, and I may have to watch the show, I love those things, almost bought a 72 340 4 speed one before I found my Charger... I was having trouble finding a 69 Charger and was going to settle... thank god my boy Brian found me this Charger or I would be on forabodiesonly.com and you all would have missed out on my stimulating comments ;)
the duster in st.louis is a 70. the guy is supposed to call me back here soon to give me all the details on it. i know it comes with v8 and 4 speed 833 just dont know right now if its #'s or not. will get the forinstances on the car and post.
Quote from: Khyron on January 05, 2011, 09:44:20 AM
Quote from: The70RT on January 05, 2011, 08:04:48 AM
Naw it's just a Duster....nobody here will care.
best answer ever! LOL
I will have to say though, you get ahold of a 72 Demon, and I may have to watch the show, I love those things, almost bought a 72 340 4 speed one before I found my Charger... I was having trouble finding a 69 Charger and was going to settle... thank god my boy Brian found me this Charger or I would be on forabodiesonly.com and you all would have missed out on my stimulating comments ;)
Heard frequently around the MA booth at the Nats. "f_ck yer Duster" :lol:
Ok VIN detectives, here's the scoop on the engine found in the XP car by Craig Hopkins:
"stamped on the block up by the dist. in this configuration is":
S 440
6 17 2
There are no other numbers on the block! Geet those heads a scratchin'. :2thumbs:
A Duster is a Demon that looks like a Dart, or is it the other way around? :shruggy:.
Quote from: The70RT on January 05, 2011, 08:04:48 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 02:22:34 AM
Quote from: Back N Black on January 04, 2011, 09:34:10 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 04, 2011, 08:42:22 PM
We may be in the market to buy a POS Duster or Demon... Anyone have one (or two) they want to part with? :icon_smile_question:
i
I know where to get a 71 340 Duster, 4 gear car, B5 blue with white interior. Just outside Ottawa.
Geez, a Canadian car??? I'll have to ask if AMD makes complete floors, fenders, trunks, and rear quarters... Then we'll be getting into that whole VIN number/kit car argument again. :brickwall:
The St. Louis Duster sounds interesting. For 3K I would expect the car to have something more than a firewall though.
Naw it's just a Duster....nobody here will care. You can get a 6cyl car with a good body for that price. Example - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1-owner-1973-96k-original-miles-/250747746055?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a61baf707#ht_500wt_930
nice ideal start !! to drop a stroker small block in :yesnod:
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 12:19:26 PM
Ok VIN detectives, here's the scoop on the engine found in the XP car by Craig Hopkins:
"stamped on the block up by the dist. in this configuration is":
S 440
6 17 2
There are no other numbers on the block! Geet those heads scratchin'. :2thumbs:
The "S" in front of "440" seems odd to me, I'm not sure how to translate that :smilie_help:
For example, my 383 was built Jan 31, 1967 (2nd shift). It has a "C" for the year (1967).
Later years should follow accordingly as D=1968, E=1969, F=1970...and so on.
The "6 17" usually identifies the date June 17th, and the "2" typically means second shift.
Chronologically speaking, "S" corresponds to 1981....but Chrysler stopped building 440's in 1979.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 12:19:26 PM
Ok VIN detectives, here's the scoop on the engine found in the XP car by Craig Hopkins:
"stamped on the block up by the dist. in this configuration is":
S 440
6 17 2
There are no other numbers on the block! Geet those heads a scratchin'. :2thumbs:
Can you post a pic of the engine pad? We are men ya know, everything is visual!
Quote from: Sydmoe on January 05, 2011, 01:12:59 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 12:19:26 PM
Ok VIN detectives, here's the scoop on the engine found in the XP car by Craig Hopkins:
"stamped on the block up by the dist. in this configuration is":
S 440
6 17 2
There are no other numbers on the block! Geet those heads a scratchin'. :2thumbs:
Can you post a pic of the engine pad? We are men ya know, everything is visual!
I can ask Craig to take a picture. I don't want to impose too much on him. He's trying to run a business and it could be a distraction.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 01:38:34 PM
Quote from: Sydmoe on January 05, 2011, 01:12:59 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 12:19:26 PM
Ok VIN detectives, here's the scoop on the engine found in the XP car by Craig Hopkins:
"stamped on the block up by the dist. in this configuration is":
S 440
6 17 2
There are no other numbers on the block! Geet those heads a scratchin'. :2thumbs:
Can you post a pic of the engine pad? We are men ya know, everything is visual!
I can ask Craig to take a picture. I don't want to impose too much on him. He's trying to run a business and it could be a distraction.
Yeh, a distraction??? This place???? Its like a train wreck.... once you get hooked and look at it, there is no going back to civilizaton.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 04, 2011, 08:42:22 PM
We may be in the market to buy a POS Duster or Demon... Anyone have one (or two) they want to part with? :icon_smile_question:
I have a nice rotted 6cy duster i'll donate if you want , it is complete
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 01:38:34 PM
Quote from: Sydmoe on January 05, 2011, 01:12:59 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 12:19:26 PM
Ok VIN detectives, here's the scoop on the engine found in the XP car by Craig Hopkins:
"stamped on the block up by the dist. in this configuration is":
S 440
6 17 2
There are no other numbers on the block! Geet those heads a scratchin'. :2thumbs:
Can you post a pic of the engine pad? We are men ya know, everything is visual!
I can ask Craig to take a picture. I don't want to impose too much on him. He's trying to run a business and it could be a distraction.
What is the casting number on the side of the block? I am guessing that block should start with a 3 and it should be 7 digits long then a dash along with the core shift number.
Quote from: Blakcharger440 on January 05, 2011, 06:03:47 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 01:38:34 PM
Quote from: Sydmoe on January 05, 2011, 01:12:59 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 12:19:26 PM
Ok VIN detectives, here's the scoop on the engine found in the XP car by Craig Hopkins:
"stamped on the block up by the dist. in this configuration is":
S 440
6 17 2
There are no other numbers on the block! Geet those heads a scratchin'. :2thumbs:
Can you post a pic of the engine pad? We are men ya know, everything is visual!
I can ask Craig to take a picture. I don't want to impose too much on him. He's trying to run a business and it could be a distraction.
What is the casting number on the side of the block? I am guessing that block should start with a 3 and it should be 7 digits long then a dash along with the core shift number.
Read this again... "There are no other numbers on the block!"
If there should be other numbers, then I'm guessing Shafi is correct in saying it is a warranty block.
BTW, no one has explained the numbers that ARE on the block. Are they date codes?
There should be casting numbers on the side of the block. 8 - 29 - 73 on this block. The stamping pad on my warrenty block is blank.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 12:19:26 PM
BTW, no one has explained the numbers that ARE on the block. Are they date codes?
I already took a shot....see previous page.
My logic doesn't translate "S" to any 440 production year. :scratchchin:
Can anyone solve this mystery....? Hello....? Anyone....? Bueller....? :nana:
I'm tapped out. :icon_smile_wink:
Quote from: The70RT on January 05, 2011, 08:45:09 PM
There should be casting numbers on the side of the block. 8 - 29 - 73 on this block. The stamping pad on my warrenty block is blank.
Exactly....there should be casting numbers on the side of the block EVEN on a warranty block which I dont think that it is. I think most likely it is out of a RV or truck 1973-78
Maybe the S is an 8 in which case it would be a 1978 block With a June 17 shift 2 build date :shruggy:
I just have to wonder at this point.....
If the original engine block for this car (whatever it was) did exist, but had thrown three rods out the sides, would the VIN pad & engine ID pad have been cut off & glued or welded to a new block? :shruggy:
Quote from: ccr-host on January 04, 2011, 08:42:22 PM
We may be in the market to buy a POS Duster or Demon... Anyone have one (or two) they want to part with? :icon_smile_question:
There is a 73 340 Duster on the local craigslist every now and again (Snohomish county WA.) Claims to have the original engine/ trans, appears to be in good restorable condition. I think he wants 1500 without engine 2500 with.
I will check and post the link if it's up again
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on January 06, 2011, 12:01:32 AM
If the original engine block for this car (whatever it was) did exist, but had thrown three rods out the sides, would the VIN pad & engine ID pad have been cut off & glued or welded to a new block? :shruggy:
:popcrn:
ok dan i heard back from my guy and this is what he has,
70 duster original 6 cyl car good frames need trunk pan quarter panel no interior
rolling chassis $1800.00 w/72 340 and auto trans $3000.00
69 dart floor replaced need quarter replaced (included) seat frames original 4 speed car
with non correct but date correct 340 w/correct heads bell house A883 trans $4200.00
those are in the st.louis area,said he would let the 69 340 and a883 go with the 70 duster for 3800.00 but would rather keep it with the 69 dart where it belongs. so if your interested in either of these get that silver tounge on it and talk him into a deal and get your next project :2thumbs:
S = Service Replacement Block.
So does that mean the previous owner bought the short block from the dealership?
I always thought the warranty blocks had a "W" stamped on the ID pad along with the little metal tags on each side.
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on January 06, 2011, 07:29:02 PM
S = Service Replacement Block.
So does that mean the previous owner bought the short block from the dealership?
I always thought the warranty blocks had a "W" stamped on the ID pad along with the little metal tags on each side.
[edit]
"If" the original numbers matching block was deemed unserviceable under warranty, it could have been replaced with a "S"-service block. Prior to this, I had no idea what an "S" block meant. :shruggy:
Anyway, its EXTREMELY unlikely, (okay, let's just call it "IMPOSSIBLE") that Chrysler would substitute a 440 in place of a 383 or Hemi for any warranty repair. :image_294343:
Since no real documentation exists we're all just "pissing in the wind" with our theories. However, this "S" block 440 should never be installed by a dealership or Chrysler Corp... considering the VIN - - Ever! :Twocents: :Twocents:
The typo that makes the most sense is the price class, not the engine designation.
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on January 06, 2011, 09:01:01 PM
The typo that makes the most sense is the price class, not the engine designation.
this car has a typo and a P for price class , wow what a typo :yesnod:
Quote from: nvrbdn on January 06, 2011, 02:39:54 PM
ok dan i heard back from my guy and this is what he has,
70 duster original 6 cyl car good frames need trunk pan quarter panel no interior
rolling chassis $1800.00 w/72 340 and auto trans $3000.00
69 dart floor replaced need quarter replaced (included) seat frames original 4 speed car
with non correct but date correct 340 w/correct heads bell house A883 trans $4200.00
those are in the st.louis area,said he would let the 69 340 and a883 go with the 70 duster for 3800.00 but would rather keep it with the 69 dart where it belongs. so if your interested in either of these get that silver tounge on it and talk him into a deal and get your next project :2thumbs:
I'll know next week what we're looking for. Both sound very promising. The worse the better!
Quote from: ccr-host on January 04, 2011, 08:42:22 PM
We may be in the market to buy a POS Duster or Demon... Anyone have one (or two) they want to part with? :icon_smile_question:
Are there finders fees involved? Like an all expense paid trip to the taping of a show? :smilielol:
The top link looks like it may be what you're looking for, but the bottom one comes with a parts car which you'll need if he takes everything off that he claims he's keeping.
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/2135328542.html (http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/2135328542.html)
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/2078871506.html (http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/2078871506.html)
Quote from: Tilar on January 08, 2011, 06:07:07 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 04, 2011, 08:42:22 PM
We may be in the market to buy a POS Duster or Demon... Anyone have one (or two) they want to part with? :icon_smile_question:
Are there finders fees involved? Like an all expense paid trip to the taping of a show? :smilielol:
The top link looks like it may be what you're looking for, but the bottom one comes with a parts car which you'll need if he takes everything off that he claims he's keeping.
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/2135328542.html (http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/2135328542.html)
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/2078871506.html (http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/2078871506.html)
Thanks! They look good too! Lots of choice out there.
A little off topic but, perhaps of interest to some here: I will be selling my 1975 Bricklin SV1 at the Scottsdale, Arizona Russo and Steele auction; January 19th - 23rd. This rare car is being sold WITHOUT RESERVE to the highest bid. For more details: http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1975-Bricklin-SV1-Custom/6647
Thanks for looking!
Quote from: ccr-host on January 08, 2011, 11:42:26 AM
A little off topic but, perhaps of interest to some here: I will be selling my 1975 Bricklin SV1 at the Scottsdale, Arizona Russo and Steele auction; January 19th - 23rd. This rare car is being sold WITHOUT RESERVE to the highest bid. For more details: http://www.russoandsteele.com/collector-car/1975-Bricklin-SV1-Custom/6647
Thanks for looking!
Meh...at least its a cool color :shruggy:
;)
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on January 06, 2011, 09:01:01 PM
The typo that makes the most sense is the price class, not the engine designation.
I'm on board with your theory Chris. :2thumbs:
Here's a quick story about how things can get messed up from the factory.
My Dad bought a used 1969 Charger 500 in 1975....
The VIN plate had the correct "XX" but the Michigan title read "XS"
It probably happened because the MSO (Manufacturers Statement of Origin) had a typo, and this error was carried onto the title when sold new, then subsequently passed onto all previous owners.
The title error was corrected when my Dad got it in his name. :yesnod:
Hey all,
Sorry for not checking in here. I've been up to my eyeballs for the past few days (boy this site sure bumps ya fast - page 2 in just a couple of days? Wow). Anyway, I thought I'd give our new friends here some inside scoop. We will be building another Mopar next season! A key sponsor has just signed up and we'll be selecting the project next week, with filming to start as early as Feb. 1st. Once details with SPEED are firmed up. The finished project will again be revealed at the SEMA show in Vegas (love that town - so quiet and quaint ::).
It will be a few months before the new season premiers, so please keep watching the new episodes of Season 7. Then watch them again, and again, until 8 is ready! :brickwall: :D
Good news, Dan. :2thumbs: Give us a hint..."A" body? :scratchchin: "E" body? Another "B" body? :icon_smile_big:
Dan
Just for curiosity, are you on the Corvette forum explaining that project as much as you are here?
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 07:54:04 PM
Read this again... "There are no other numbers on the block!"
If there should be other numbers, then I'm guessing Shafi is correct in saying it is a warranty block.
BTW, no one has explained the numbers that ARE on the block. Are they date codes?
Conventional (Mopar) knowledge is that
S denotes "Service Engine" and indicates a warranty engine. I can't say whether it means warranty block or warranty engine. The 440 shortblock installed in my '69 car under warranty during the 1973 calendar year had no such marks on it - the ID pad was totally blank, but it's known to have been just a short block and not a complete engine assembly as this one may have been.
6 17 is the Engine Assembly Date, June 17th. Not sure what year since there are no other clues such as casting date, etc.
2 merely shows the block was assembled on the second shift. Notably absent is the "HP" stamp that would be present on an engine assembled with the hi-po camshaft, etc.
I question why anyone would replace a Hemi-powered car with any B/RB engine under warranty, if for no other reason than it would require a K-frame swap too. You'd also think installing a Hemi shortblock assembly and hanging all the other original components back on the block would be simpler (and cheaper??) - since they would have needed a complete engine assembly from air cleaner to oilpan vs. a shortblock. Doesn't pass the smell test to me, but that's just my opinion and worth about as much as I'm being paid for it (i.e. nothing).
Quote from: Richard Cranium on January 13, 2011, 07:43:32 AM
Just for curiosity, are you on the Corvette forum explaining that project as much as you are here?
Are you kidding? Have you ever talked with a Vette owner? :smilielol:
Quote from: hemigeno on January 13, 2011, 10:34:20 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 07:54:04 PM
Read this again... "There are no other numbers on the block!"
If there should be other numbers, then I'm guessing Shafi is correct in saying it is a warranty block.
BTW, no one has explained the numbers that ARE on the block. Are they date codes?
Conventional (Mopar) knowledge is that S denotes "Service Engine" and indicates a warranty engine. I can't say whether it means warranty block or warranty engine. The 440 shortblock installed in my '69 car under warranty during the 1973 calendar year had no such marks on it - the ID pad was totally blank, but it's known to have been just a short block and not a complete engine assembly as this one may have been.
6 17 is the Engine Assembly Date, June 17th. Not sure what year since there are no other clues such as casting date, etc.
2 merely shows the block was assembled on the second shift. Notably absent is the "HP" stamp that would be present on an engine assembled with the hi-po camshaft, etc.
I question why anyone would replace a Hemi-powered car with any B/RB engine under warranty, if for no other reason than it would require a K-frame swap too. You'd also think installing a Hemi shortblock assembly and hanging all the other original components back on the block would be simpler (and cheaper??) - since they would have needed a complete engine assembly from air cleaner to oilpan vs. a shortblock. Doesn't pass the smell test to me, but that's just my opinion and worth about as much as I'm being paid for it (i.e. nothing).
Those were my thoughts too. But, Shafi tells me it wasn't all that rare because the 440 was a more reliable engine back then and the whole "That thing got a Hemi?", mania wasn't as strong then too.
440 > Hemi :nana:
*runs*
Quote from: ccr-host on January 13, 2011, 01:59:18 PM
Those were my thoughts too. But, Shafi tells me it wasn't all that rare because the 440 was a more reliable engine back then and the whole "That thing got a Hemi?", mania wasn't as strong then too.
Also meant getting a whole new exhaust system too - or at least a new H-pipe.
What size steel fuel lines were in the car originally? Hemicars were the only ones that received 3/8" fuel lines from the tank to the engine, all others got 5/16" lines (even though 440 cars did get the larger 3/8" fuel tank pickup/sending unit, go figure). It's doubtful that anyone would have bothered to change fuel lines, since the bigger lines would have worked just fine.
Well, if its anything like the ones here in the northern part of NJ that Ive seen and met at some shows, I think they will need a proctologist to remove their heads out of their asses! No offence to anyone on this board if you own a fiberglass wonder car.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 13, 2011, 01:59:18 PM
Those were my thoughts too. But, Shafi tells me it wasn't all that rare because the 440 was a more reliable engine back then and the whole "That thing got a Hemi?", mania wasn't as strong then too.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 07:54:04 PM
then I'm guessing Shafi is correct in saying it is a warranty block.
Seriously??
There's no way Chrysler would do that under warranty! :brickwall:
I expected Shafi to be more knoweledgeable about Mopar history...he's been involved in our hobby for decades. :D He's no novice to Mopars.
You can market a car any way you want......but you can't document a car without documentation.
"Warranty Block 440" - my ass! :moon:
If you accept Shafi's "Warranty Block logic" - - then you should also agree this could be a "rare" 440 built XP car.... :scope:
In reality its probably an "XP" typo that should have been an "XS".
Quote from: hemigeno on January 13, 2011, 10:34:20 AM
I question why anyone would replace a Hemi-powered car with any B/RB engine under warranty, if for no other reason than it would require a K-frame swap too. You'd also think installing a Hemi shortblock assembly and hanging all the other original components back on the block would be simpler (and cheaper??) - since they would have needed a complete engine assembly from air cleaner to oilpan vs. a shortblock. Doesn't pass the smell test to me, but that's just my opinion and worth about as much as I'm being paid for it (i.e. nothing).
Geno I agree with you! In fact I posted the same type of reply on the previous page - reply #836. :2thumbs:
It was easier to maintain which to a lot of mechanics back in the day was likely about the same as more reliable. :lol:
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 05:51:27 PM
You can market a car any way you want......
What do you think this entire thread was really about? :scratchchin:
Come on guys....
Quote from: Chris G. on January 13, 2011, 07:19:24 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 05:51:27 PM
You can market a car any way you want......
What do you think this entire thread was really about? :scratchchin:
Come on guys....
This could become the worlds most undocumented car that wants to be well documented.
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 05:51:27 PM
In reality its probably an "XP" typo that should have been an "XS".
Yay! :angel:
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: Chris G. on January 13, 2011, 07:19:24 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 05:51:27 PM
You can market a car any way you want......
What do you think this entire thread was really about? :scratchchin:
Come on guys....
This could become the worlds most undocumented car that wants to be well documented.
Yay again! :pushup:
QuoteS = Service Replacement Block.
S actually means "special' see http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/TSBs/1969/D69-25-1%20page5.jpg
Warranty blocks came with aluminum warranty tags.
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on January 13, 2011, 09:09:01 PM
QuoteS = Service Replacement Block.
S actually means "special' see http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/TSBs/1969/D69-25-1%20page5.jpg
Warranty blocks came with aluminum warranty tags.
What about short blocks :shruggy:
Typically, if there was a block problem the dealership would re-use the top end & accessories on the new block.
I have heard of warranty blocks, I think we all have. But have you ever heard of a warranty engine? I haven't that I can recall.
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on January 13, 2011, 09:09:01 PM
QuoteS = Service Replacement Block.
S actually means "special' see http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/images/TSBs/1969/D69-25-1%20page5.jpg
Warranty blocks came with aluminum warranty tags.
Good gravy...while you're at it, what color writing/style of font did they use on the tags?
Good gravy...while you're at it, what color writing/style of font did they use on the tags?
[/quote]
.......
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: Chris G. on January 13, 2011, 07:19:24 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 05:51:27 PM
You can market a car any way you want......
What do you think this entire thread was really about? :scratchchin:
Come on guys....
This could become the worlds most undocumented car that wants to be well documented.
Well, it's certainly trying to be the most debated car in the world. :yesnod:
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: Chris G. on January 13, 2011, 07:19:24 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 05:51:27 PM
You can market a car any way you want......
What do you think this entire thread was really about? :scratchchin:
Come on guys....
This could become the worlds most undocumented car that wants to be well documented.
I would agree with that.....and I still stay the absence of a casting date on the side of the block is unusual. I have never seen one like that.
Quote from: Blakcharger440 on January 14, 2011, 06:22:37 AM
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: Chris G. on January 13, 2011, 07:19:24 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 05:51:27 PM
You can market a car any way you want......
What do you think this entire thread was really about? :scratchchin:
Come on guys....
This could become the worlds most undocumented car that wants to be well documented.
I would agree with that.....and I still stay the absence of a casting date on the side of the block is unusual. I have never seen one like that.
I'm not sure if when he asked about the stampings if he checked the side for casting the date? I know some blocks came without the warrenty tag though.
Quote from: The70RT on January 14, 2011, 06:38:26 AM
I know some blocks came without the warrenty tag though.
:yesnod:
My '73-dated 440 shortblock assembly had no tag or evidence there ever was a tag (i.e. hole where the round-headed "nail" would have gone).
Obviously some - maybe most ?? - blocks had a tag, but not all of them did.
well what happens if im a backwoods good ole boy who got his hands on a cheap, run the crap out of, charger that nobody wanted cuz gas is going up and the insurance is high. then i also drive the crap out of it since driving fast on dirt roads is super cool with an orange charger. well i smoke the engine. we tow it home where we have an old newyorker that billy bob wrapped around a tree (pretending it was an orange charger also). well heck billy bob, can i take your 440 since your car is toast? who cares that it isnt original or even the same size motor? i got my car running again and can drive fast on dirt roads again. :2thumbs:
From what I have seen so far, warranty blocks had tags.
Blocks bought as service replacements did not have tags.
Oh ok, I have a service short block then. The pad is blank, here is my service invoice from way back then.
Quote from: The70RT on January 14, 2011, 06:38:26 AM
Quote from: Blakcharger440 on January 14, 2011, 06:22:37 AM
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 07:32:48 PM
Quote from: Chris G. on January 13, 2011, 07:19:24 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 05:51:27 PM
You can market a car any way you want......
What do you think this entire thread was really about? :scratchchin:
Come on guys....
This could become the worlds most undocumented car that wants to be well documented.
I would agree with that.....and I still stay the absence of a casting date on the side of the block is unusual. I have never seen one like that.
I'm not sure if when he asked about the stampings if he checked the side for casting the date? I know some blocks came without the warrenty tag though.
It is weird that they havent checked the casting date.... that would settle alot of things.
Quote from: nvrbdn on January 14, 2011, 06:19:40 PM
well what happens if im a backwoods good ole boy who got his hands on a cheap, run the crap out of, charger that nobody wanted cuz gas is going up and the insurance is high. then i also drive the crap out of it since driving fast on dirt roads is super cool with an orange charger. well i smoke the engine. we tow it home where we have an old newyorker that billy bob wrapped around a tree (pretending it was an orange charger also). well heck billy bob, can i take your 440 since your car is toast? who cares that it isnt original or even the same size motor? i got my car running again and can drive fast on dirt roads again. :2thumbs:
If you had met the guys in Tennessee that Shafi bought the car from, then this is the most logical post on these boards! :cheers:
Quote from: TUFCAT on January 13, 2011, 05:51:27 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 13, 2011, 01:59:18 PM
Those were my thoughts too. But, Shafi tells me it wasn't all that rare because the 440 was a more reliable engine back then and the whole "That thing got a Hemi?", mania wasn't as strong then too.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 05, 2011, 07:54:04 PM
then I'm guessing Shafi is correct in saying it is a warranty block.
Seriously??
There's no way Chrysler would do that under warranty! :brickwall:
I expected Shafi to be more knoweledgeable about Mopar history...he's been involved in our hobby for decades. :D He's no novice to Mopars.
You can market a car any way you want......but you can't document a car without documentation.
"Warranty Block 440" - my ass! :moon:
If you accept Shafi's "Warranty Block logic" - - then you should also agree this could be a "rare" 440 built XP car.... :scope:
In reality its probably an "XP" typo that should have been an "XS".
Quote from: hemigeno on January 13, 2011, 10:34:20 AM
I question why anyone would replace a Hemi-powered car with any B/RB engine under warranty, if for no other reason than it would require a K-frame swap too. You'd also think installing a Hemi shortblock assembly and hanging all the other original components back on the block would be simpler (and cheaper??) - since they would have needed a complete engine assembly from air cleaner to oilpan vs. a shortblock. Doesn't pass the smell test to me, but that's just my opinion and worth about as much as I'm being paid for it (i.e. nothing).
Geno I agree with you! In fact I posted the same type of reply on the previous page - reply #836. :2thumbs:
GEEZ ... somebody get me a gun so I can shoot myself!
WHAT I SAID is that this 440 engine was, according to Galen Govier's report, a warranty block out of a 1970 car, and it had C body HP manifolds on it. I DID NOT SAY that was the warranty engine for this car. THAT WOULD BE RIDICULOUS. :brickwall:
Just watched todays episode... Legendary did a nice job on the headliner. Something Id like to do to mine soon.
A little concerned on the trunk divider statement that they made..... "it just hangs there on those 2 hooks & thats it."
What about the retaining clips that screw in to the top?
Also why would you take rusted/nasty old body plugs out of a donor car when they can be had new repro?
yea it was nice to see the headliner installed. getting ready to do mine also. wish they would have spent another minute of time on that install. especially around the rear window. good show though with the top install also.
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on January 15, 2011, 05:59:28 PM
Just watched todays episode... Legendary did a nice job on the headliner. Something Id like to do to mine soon.
A little concerned on the trunk divider statement that they made..... "it just hangs there on those 2 hooks & thats it."
What about the retaining clips that screw in to the top?
Also why would you take rusted/nasty old body plugs out of a donor car when they can be had new repro?
Yep 6T9, the divider just hangs on the two hooks. No fastners/retainers used.
We used the body plugs from the donor because our order from Year One had not arrived. The used ones cleaned up just fine though.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 15, 2011, 09:34:29 PM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on January 15, 2011, 05:59:28 PM
Just watched todays episode... Legendary did a nice job on the headliner. Something Id like to do to mine soon.
A little concerned on the trunk divider statement that they made..... "it just hangs there on those 2 hooks & thats it."
What about the retaining clips that screw in to the top?
Also why would you take rusted/nasty old body plugs out of a donor car when they can be had new repro?
Yep 6T9, the divider just hangs on the two hooks. No fastners/retainers used.
We used the body plugs from the donor because our order from Year One had not arrived. The used ones cleaned up just fine though.
For what its worth, my late production 69 trunk divider panel just hands on those two hangers also.
Hi Brian, I'll second your "for what its worth" :icon_smile_wink: The divider on my 1967 hangs on two hooks.
The rear window shelf panel (package tray) has two push in button type fasteners.
I think Chris is thinking of the 2 screwed down fastener brackets that hold the speaker shelf. Ive never seen one that didnt just hang from there. Other than the ones that were torn and just didnt hang anymore.
Looks goods :2thumbs: though so far
So Dan,I saw this week show.I always thought that the car were painted all over. So the car where only paint on the outside not inside or underneath?
Quote from: lexxman on January 16, 2011, 09:28:43 PM
So Dan,I saw this week show.I always thought that the car were painted all over. So the car where only paint on the outside not inside or underneath?
Lexxman, the paint process was a real adventure for us. We had a very talented collision shop lined up to do the body and paint when the car came back from Georgia. We left it there and flew back east to film at Ray Barton's in PA and Legendary Upholstery in upstate New York. Then I took a week off for some much needed R&R. All that time we were thinking the car was being prepared for paint when I returned. Josh at Hot Rod's was trying to reach me (good luck when I'm at a cottage on the Rideau) to let me know the shop we assigned the car to got slammed with repairs while we were gone and they hadn't been able to get to the Charger. That meant a three week loss of progress on a project already pressed for time. :no:
Jimenez Brothers Customs in Riverside agreed to take over the project and turn it around as fast as possible to get us back on schedule. That meant they didn't have the time to do the homework they would usually do. Not being too familiar with Mopar's they asked about the paint technique and we told them what we could best remember - trunk, firewall inner fenders, radiator support all get the same paint as the exterior. Underside gets gray primer with overspray from the exterior. Interior gets a tan color. Well, turns out we should have been more specific about the gray. The standard HoK primer is a very light gray and was wrong for the car. But, to their credit, the collision shop stepped up and reshot the underside with the correct primer color while it was on the lift at Hot Rods. The problem with all this was there would be no overspray on the primer... So, ours is not 100 percent accurate. But, it still looks damn nice IMO. :drool5:
Quote from: lexxman on January 16, 2011, 09:28:43 PM
So Dan,I saw this week show.I always thought that the car were painted all over. So the car where only paint on the outside not inside or underneath?
I noticed that too. Obviously, the interior will all be hidden, but the trunk is not. Also,I was surprised to see the finish color stopping on the quarter below the sail panel joint. Yes, I understand that the roof is covered with a vinyl roof, but wouldn't it have been better to spray some color on if only to seal the primer? Also, what's up with having to "massage" the roof-quarter joints after the car was painted? That seems like a major goof-up.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be critical; rather it's just something that I observed.
Inside pass. compartment gets body color as well....tan primer?
Quote from: Richard Cranium on January 17, 2011, 11:09:17 AM
Quote from: lexxman on January 16, 2011, 09:28:43 PM
So Dan,I saw this week show.I always thought that the car were painted all over. So the car where only paint on the outside not inside or underneath?
I noticed that too. Obviously, the interior will all be hidden, but the trunk is not. Also,I was surprised to see the finish color stopping on the quarter below the sail panel joint. Yes, I understand that the roof is covered with a vinyl roof, but wouldn't it have been better to spray some color on if only to seal the primer? Also, what's up with having to "massage" the roof-quarter joints after the car was painted? That seems like a major goof-up.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be critical; rather it's just something that I observed.
Quote from: Richard Cranium on January 17, 2011, 11:09:17 AM
Quote from: lexxman on January 16, 2011, 09:28:43 PM
So Dan,I saw this week show.I always thought that the car were painted all over. So the car where only paint on the outside not inside or underneath?
I noticed that too. Obviously, the interior will all be hidden, but the trunk is not. Also,I was surprised to see the finish color stopping on the quarter below the sail panel joint. Yes, I understand that the roof is covered with a vinyl roof, but wouldn't it have been better to spray some color on if only to seal the primer? Also, what's up with having to "massage" the roof-quarter joints after the car was painted? That seems like a major goof-up.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be critical; rather it's just something that I observed.
As I noted, the paint technique is not 100 percent historically accurate. Losing three weeks of body time had a domino effect on the build schedule and some decisions were made with haste.
The roof required a little work right from the start. The join at the A and B pillars were very visible and most people felt the vinyl roof would hide the flaw. But, that was not the case. So, the collision shop sent their bodyman to smooth the dip that was there.
The tan color is paint – not primer.
CCR car was in this month's issue of MCG.
The tan color is paint – not primer.
[/quote]
Inside gets the same color as outside.
I just did my Saturday morning ritual of watching the XP Hemi build, this time with two back-to-back episodes.
I'm sure there was a lot more video footage shot during the build that got expunged in editing.
Funny thing - I watch the show to see the Charger build, and do my coffee/breakfast/email/bathroom breaks during the Corvette clips! (Sorry Dan!)
Which brings me to my thought: Is this XP Hemi Charger build going to find it's way to DVD? And if so, can we have a version of it that centers on the Charger build, excising the Corvette portion?
And...can we have more Charger footage, you know, the un-aired video left-overs?
It's not a bad reference tool for us neophyte Charger restorers.
Quote from: Magnumcharger on January 22, 2011, 08:46:50 AM
I just did my Saturday morning ritual of watching the XP Hemi build, this time with two back-to-back episodes.
I'm sure there was a lot more video footage shot during the build that got expunged in editing.
Funny thing - I watch the show to see the Charger build, and do my coffee/breakfast/email/bathroom breaks during the Corvette clips! (Sorry Dan!)
Which brings me to my thought: Is this XP Hemi Charger build going to find it's way to DVD? And if so, can we have a version of it that centers on the Charger build, excising the Corvette portion?
And...can we have more Charger footage, you know, the un-aired video left-overs?
It's not a bad reference tool for us neophyte Charger restorers.
Ya it would be nice to have it on dvd with extras.I have to watch it on sunday,didn't get up in time.
Quote from: lexxman on January 22, 2011, 12:50:13 PM
Quote from: Magnumcharger on January 22, 2011, 08:46:50 AM
I just did my Saturday morning ritual of watching the XP Hemi build, this time with two back-to-back episodes.
I'm sure there was a lot more video footage shot during the build that got expunged in editing.
Funny thing - I watch the show to see the Charger build, and do my coffee/breakfast/email/bathroom breaks during the Corvette clips! (Sorry Dan!)
Which brings me to my thought: Is this XP Hemi Charger build going to find it's way to DVD? And if so, can we have a version of it that centers on the Charger build, excising the Corvette portion?
And...can we have more Charger footage, you know, the un-aired video left-overs?
It's not a bad reference tool for us neophyte Charger restorers.
Ya it would be nice to have it on dvd with extras.I have to watch it on sunday,didn't get up in time.
I think you would all be better off to use anything I've hosted/built as "inspiration" rather than instruction! :laugh:
The Cuda build is available on DVD through our website. The Charger content is still not finished editing for SPEED. We can't release anything for one year. Speed controls all content for that period.
Quote
I think you would all be better off to use anything I've hosted/built as "inspration" rather than instruction! :laugh:
The Cuda build is available on DVD through our website. The Charger content is still not finished editing for SPEED. We can't release aything for one year. Speed controls all content for that period.
Dan, I'm pretty certain it would be used more for "motivation" than instruction! :lol:
I'm willing to wait a year to get a DVD dedicated to the Charger's restoration. How many CCR episodes cover the Keisler XP Hemi Charger rebuild?
And I still think you should suggest to "the powers that be" about displaying the Charger at Moparfest in New Hamburg, Ontario. Which is around the 20th of August this year.
Quote from: Magnumcharger on January 22, 2011, 03:33:06 PM
Quote
I think you would all be better off to use anything I've hosted/built as "inspration" rather than instruction! :laugh:
The Cuda build is available on DVD through our website. The Charger content is still not finished editing for SPEED. We can't release aything for one year. Speed controls all content for that period.
Dan, I'm pretty certain it would be used more for "motivation" than instruction! :lol:
I'm willing to wait a year to get a DVD dedicated to the Charger's restoration. How many CCR episodes cover the Keisler XP Hemi Charger rebuild?
And I still think you should suggest to "the powers that be" about displaying the Charger at Moparfest in New Hamburg, Ontario. Which is around the 20th of August this year.
It could also be used as a warning!
All 13 episodes have at least two Charger segments. But, some of it is integrated with the Vette in the final episodes, so it may be difficult to split it out as stand alone content. People would wonder where the Vette came from and why we want to race against it.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 22, 2011, 03:38:45 PM
People would wonder where the Vette came from and why we want to race against it.
Not us :icon_smile_big:
We wonder why you waste half a TV show every week on a Vette :lol:
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on January 22, 2011, 04:00:23 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 22, 2011, 03:38:45 PM
People would wonder where the Vette came from and why we want to race against it.
Not us :icon_smile_big:
We wonder why you waste half a TV show every week on a Vette :lol:
Ditto! :2thumbs:
Quote from: Magnumcharger on January 22, 2011, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on January 22, 2011, 04:00:23 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 22, 2011, 03:38:45 PM
People would wonder where the Vette came from and why we want to race against it.
Not us :icon_smile_big:
We wonder why you waste half a TV show every week on a Vette :lol:
Ditto! :2thumbs:
I vote all the above statements.
:shruggy: I agree delete the vet segments add in the all the extra xp video.
Blue ray would be nice :cheers:
Quote from: Khyron on January 22, 2011, 04:49:41 PM
Quote from: Magnumcharger on January 22, 2011, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on January 22, 2011, 04:00:23 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 22, 2011, 03:38:45 PM
People would wonder where the Vette came from and why we want to race against it.
Not us :icon_smile_big:
We wonder why you waste half a TV show every week on a Vette :lol:
Ditto! :2thumbs:
I vote all the above statements.
Quote from: Khyron on January 22, 2011, 04:49:41 PM
Quote from: Magnumcharger on January 22, 2011, 04:10:43 PM
Quote from: BrianShaughnessy on January 22, 2011, 04:00:23 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 22, 2011, 03:38:45 PM
People would wonder where the Vette came from and why we want to race against it.
Not us :icon_smile_big:
We wonder why you waste half a TV show every week on a Vette :lol:
Ditto! :2thumbs:
I vote all the above statements.
:lol: :2thumbs:
Whilst all that would be nice, I'm sure the added expense of more editing and extra commentary just for us Mopar guys would outweigh the profit margin of doing such a thing.
Don't see it happening myself.
using all the material from both models adds to their selling market.but that market is bigger when you add all the deleted footage to change the show.
Not to take value away from your statement, but as a former videographer and editor, I can definitively say that it wouldn't take that awful much effort to produce a reasonable product for only a few day's effort.
When I was doing it for a living, I would regularly edit WEEKS of footage down to any variable of time content, based on requirement. A simple matter of storyboarding and story telling.
Make a rough draft, select the content, and build it to meet the time constraints.
Very easy to do an over-dub of the vocals afterwards.
Sorry,I have to agree. The vette is a waste of time,there nice cars.But you know,I do like the idea of bringing the car to Moparfest this summer.It is the biggest mopar show in Canada(or so I'm told). ;D
Quote from: Magnumcharger on January 23, 2011, 09:45:53 AM
Not to take value away from your statement, but as a former videographer and editor, I can definitively say that it wouldn't take that awful much effort to produce a reasonable product for only a few day's effort.
When I was doing it for a living, I would regularly edit WEEKS of footage down to any variable of time content, based on requirement. A simple matter of storyboarding and story telling.
Make a rough draft, select the content, and build it to meet the time constraints.
Very easy to do an over-dub of the vocals afterwards.
We have done split outs in the past. However, this season really was about building two cars for the same objective; SEMA and a head-to-head race. In the final two episodes, you'll see how the story of the two start to intermingle. The final episode would be a challenge to split because the teams are constantly refering to each other and there is a great deal of side by side footage. The other consideration would be the return on investment. As a series, its much easier to package what went on air and add some extras like a photo gallery and out-takes, along with a commentary. While this community would eat up a stand alone DVD of the Charger, I don't think the Corvette community would respond in kind, so we would have to release the package with both cars anyway.
Just remember, there's a fast forward on most DVD players! :thumbs:
Quote from: ccr-host on January 25, 2011, 12:42:39 PM
The other consideration would be the return on investment. As a series, its much easier to package what went on air and add some extras like a photo gallery and out-takes, along with a commentary.
Dan, I like that idea :2thumbs: ....if you include some unreleased build footage - us Mopars guys will really eat it up. :icon_smile_wink:
This weeks promo for the Saturday premier of episode 12 is out on the web, if anyone wants to check it out!
http://www.streetfire.net/video/chop-cut-rebuild-dash-to-sema_2193201.htm
:popcrn:
On a top note, the magazine Amos' "Auto Enthusiast" has an on-line article on the XP Hemi with regards to the install of it's Legendary Vinyl top. http://editions.amospublishing.com/KRPR/Default.aspx?d=20110301&pagenum=104&f= (http://editions.amospublishing.com/KRPR/Default.aspx?d=20110301&pagenum=104&f=) While more of a re-cap of the XP Charger's build on Chop, Cut, Rebuild, it does have some interesting photos.
Dan
Ok,Dan I'm not a big fan of the vette,but dam that looks good. :2thumbs:
Watching the that show has been keeping me moving my butt on my charger. I hope to have in the paint booth beginning of May.(I hope) :drool5:
Quote from: lexxman on January 27, 2011, 05:08:10 PM
Ok,Dan I'm not a big fan of the vette,but dam that looks good. :2thumbs:
Watching the that show has been keeping me moving my butt on my charger. I hope to have in the paint booth beginning of May.(I hope) :drool5:
I'm glad it's serving as an inspiration rather than a warning! ;)
hey dan, did we line up a car for that new show?? if so what body did we end up with????
Quote from: nvrbdn on January 27, 2011, 11:23:20 PM
hey dan, did we line up a car for that new show?? if so what body did we end up with????
We've lined up the sponsor and the builder. But, the car is still in debate.
Classic Industries will be sponsoring and building a Mopar next season to coincide with the launch of their new Mopar catalogues. The project will be built and assembled by a volunteer group from the staff. These are the people who take your phone orders, drive forklifts, pick orders in the wharehouse, etc... A true hobbiest build. But, we can't decide on which car it will be. They want to build something that they have the most parts for; a 1972 Road Runner. We would like to see a 72 or 73 Duster. We have never built an A body on the show and I think it will have more appeal than another B body.
:scratchchin:
I have to admit, I'm partial to the Road Runner myself. Then again I am an unashamed, unabashed, unapologetic, and completely unbiased ( :angel:) B-body fan.
well dan to be honest with you, you did the 2nd gen dodge charger :2thumbs: so its really all down hill from there :nana: but i like staying with the mopar whichever you choose. :rofl:
Quote from: nvrbdn on January 28, 2011, 11:42:45 AM
well dan to be honest with you, you did the 2nd gen dodge charger :2thumbs: so its really all down hill from there :nana: but i like staying with the mopar whichever you choose. :rofl:
What would you bet that I'll get a different response on the "A Body Only" boards? :smilielol:
Quote from: Ghoste on January 28, 2011, 11:28:15 AM
I have to admit, I'm partial to the Road Runner myself. Then again I am an unashamed, unabashed, unapologetic, and completely unbiased ( :angel:) B-body fan.
Ghoste, somehow I think you hold those same opinions on a number of issues. ;)
I had a '71 Plum Crazy Road Runner back in the late 80s. Just out of high school I spent every dime I could on getting a freshly rebuilt high compression big cam'd 440. Needless to say my weekends beating on the car resulted in it spending more time on axle stands in my driveway than on the road. Early lesson learned, if your going to build a monster motor save some money for the drive train! Of course this lesson wasn't learned till after blowing up 2 junk yard stock trannies, a universal joint and a smoked rear diff!........ya the summer of '87 was a fun one!
Back on topic.....my vote is for the Runner Dan!
Go with the road runner , better choice . You will get a larger following .
Quote from: moparstuart on January 28, 2011, 01:58:23 PM
Go with the road runner , better choice . You will get a larger following .
I agree....and I'm a Duster Fan.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 28, 2011, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on January 28, 2011, 11:28:15 AM
I have to admit, I'm partial to the Road Runner myself. Then again I am an unashamed, unabashed, unapologetic, and completely unbiased ( :angel:) B-body fan.
Ghoste, somehow I think you hold those same opinions on a number of issues. ;)
I'm actually a lot more open minded than you understandably think, you just happened to hit on a couple of personal hot buttons. I'm sure sooner or later our paths will cross and we'll sit down for a beer. You'd likely find we have much more in common after that.
Quote from: Ghoste on January 28, 2011, 04:29:20 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 28, 2011, 12:31:11 PM
Quote from: Ghoste on January 28, 2011, 11:28:15 AM
I have to admit, I'm partial to the Road Runner myself. Then again I am an unashamed, unabashed, unapologetic, and completely unbiased ( :angel:) B-body fan.
Ghoste, somehow I think you hold those same opinions on a number of issues. ;)
I'm actually a lot more open minded than you understandably think, you just happened to hit on a couple of personal hot buttons. I'm sure sooner or later our paths will cross and we'll sit down for a beer. You'd likely find we have much more in common after that.
I'm sure you and I would get along just fine! Who's buying the beer???
Tough call. We're both Canadian so I imagine we would both volunteer. :lol: Maybe we could charm someone else into buying it for us.
Quote from: ccr-host on January 28, 2011, 08:26:42 PM
I'm sure you and I would get along just fine! Who's buying the beer???
Quote from: Ghoste on January 28, 2011, 08:35:27 PM
Tough call. We're both Canadian so I imagine we would both volunteer. :lol: Maybe we could charm someone else into buying it for us.
Buying beer? ...its not hard for me to volunteer, I already know Shawn and I'd love to meet Dan. :cheers:
Hell, I'll go on record to be the FIRST volunteer to take you cat's out :2thumbs: ....and the drive to Canada from Detroit is not that bad at all.
I might even get my credit limit increased to show Dan a good time in Windsor. :drool5:
The more the merrier. :ricky:
Dan do the roadrunner it's a way cooler car than the duster, :icon_smile_big:
Hay Dan my neighbor got a 1971 GTX that's been in his barn for 15 years that in good shape if you want to build a GTX ?
Do the runner..More ratings...
I'd probably watch just enough of the first episode to realize it's a Duster and that would be all. I'm sure they're fine, cool cars but the styling does nothing for me. The RR is better, but still not something I'd feel like I had to watch.
Troy
Quote from: Troy on January 29, 2011, 02:18:56 PM
I'd probably watch just enough of the first episode to realize it's a Duster and that would be all. I'm sure they're fine, cool cars but the styling does nothing for me. The RR is better, but still not something I'd feel like I had to watch.
Troy
Ouch Troy! You'd only tune into CCR if we're doing a Charger? I thought we had developed some fans for the show not just for a specific car! It's why we're insisting on a Mopar project for next season. :rotz:
Quote from: ccr-host on January 31, 2011, 01:03:30 PM
Quote from: Troy on January 29, 2011, 02:18:56 PM
I'd probably watch just enough of the first episode to realize it's a Duster and that would be all. I'm sure they're fine, cool cars but the styling does nothing for me. The RR is better, but still not something I'd feel like I had to watch.
Troy
Ouch Troy! You'd only tune into CCR if we're doing a Charger? I thought we had developed some fans for the show not just for a specific car! It's why we're insisting on a Mopar project for next season. :rotz:
I didn't say that. I just don't happen to
personally like either choice. Who said that anyone who likes a Mopar has to like all Mopars? I'm very picky and I'm not strictly a Mopar fan boy. As a rule, I'm not much of a fan of reality TV either. I watch a grand total of 3 hours of TV each week so there has to be something to grab my attention and make me want to tune in. I'm probably not a part of the target audience so my opinion isn't nearly as important as some pother people's.
Troy
Quote from: lexxman on January 27, 2011, 05:08:10 PM
Ok,Dan I'm not a big fan of the vette,but dam that looks good. :2thumbs:
I give it 3 years before all that add-on fiberglass begins cracking. :yesnod:
Quote from: Troy on January 31, 2011, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 31, 2011, 01:03:30 PM
Quote from: Troy on January 29, 2011, 02:18:56 PM
I'd probably watch just enough of the first episode to realize it's a Duster and that would be all. I'm sure they're fine, cool cars but the styling does nothing for me. The RR is better, but still not something I'd feel like I had to watch.
Troy
Ouch Troy! You'd only tune into CCR if we're doing a Charger? I thought we had developed some fans for the show not just for a specific car! It's why we're insisting on a Mopar project for next season. :rotz:
I didn't say that. I just don't happen to personally like either choice. Who said that anyone who likes a Mopar has to like all Mopars? I'm very picky and I'm not strictly a Mopar fan boy. As a rule, I'm not much of a fan of reality TV either. I watch a grand total of 3 hours of TV each week so there has to be something to grab my attention and make me want to tune in. I'm probably not a part of the target audience so my opinion isn't nearly as important as some pother people's.
Troy
Oh trust me Troy, you are part of the target demo. You buy parts don't you? :2thumbs:
Quote from: Richard Cranium on January 31, 2011, 03:44:16 PM
Quote from: lexxman on January 27, 2011, 05:08:10 PM
Ok,Dan I'm not a big fan of the vette,but dam that looks good. :2thumbs:
I give it 3 years before all that add-on fiberglass begins cracking. :yesnod:
I'd agree if they were simply adding fiberglass. But, these are molded panels, just like the factory. The first car was simply a buck. Even those panels will be taken off and destroyed once the molds are produced.
well, im not a corvette guy in the least. i record barrette jackson and the mecum so i can fast forward through the 6 million corvettes for sale, but by making molds, are they planning on making more of these kits to sell for those vettes or is it a 1 time thing for the 2 they built? :shruggy:
Quote from: ccr-host on February 01, 2011, 11:53:21 AM
Quote from: Troy on January 31, 2011, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on January 31, 2011, 01:03:30 PM
Quote from: Troy on January 29, 2011, 02:18:56 PM
I'd probably watch just enough of the first episode to realize it's a Duster and that would be all. I'm sure they're fine, cool cars but the styling does nothing for me. The RR is better, but still not something I'd feel like I had to watch.
Troy
Ouch Troy! You'd only tune into CCR if we're doing a Charger? I thought we had developed some fans for the show not just for a specific car! It's why we're insisting on a Mopar project for next season. :rotz:
I didn't say that. I just don't happen to personally like either choice. Who said that anyone who likes a Mopar has to like all Mopars? I'm very picky and I'm not strictly a Mopar fan boy. As a rule, I'm not much of a fan of reality TV either. I watch a grand total of 3 hours of TV each week so there has to be something to grab my attention and make me want to tune in. I'm probably not a part of the target audience so my opinion isn't nearly as important as some pother people's.
Troy
Oh trust me Troy, you are part of the target demo. You buy parts don't you? :2thumbs:
Not for a Duster. :P
Yes, I do buy parts but I don't need to watch TV to figure out which ones to buy. Honestly, most of the car shows on TV are no more than infomercials shilling parts for sponsors. It's hard to get a real read of the quality/fit/finish/durability of a part - or the customer service from the vendor - from someone who is being paid to help sell it. On the other hand, it's nice to know what is available - although I'm rarely surprised due to the long lead times for TV and print.
Troy
Quote from: nvrbdn on February 01, 2011, 01:15:32 PM
well, im not a corvette guy in the least. i record barrette jackson and the mecum so i can fast forward through the 6 million corvettes for sale, but by making molds, are they planning on making more of these kits to sell for those vettes or is it a 1 time thing for the 2 they built? :shruggy:
They will be building multple cars and selling them, which is why they went to the trouble of making molds. The two featured on the show are their demo cars. The second car will be a different color and have some different accessories.
Well everyone, it's the end of the Season 7 line this Saturday. The season finale will air this weekend!
Here's the link to the teaser/promo enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/user/ChopCutRebuild
Great promo Dan! I'll be watching. :2thumbs:
Not much of a launch by the Charger there. I hope that was just a test run.
Quote from: bull on February 03, 2011, 02:18:40 PM
Not much of a launch by the Charger there. I hope that was just a test run.
I blame the driver! :brickwall:
Dan it will be nice to see the car finished.When is the pinks race going to air again?
i believe it was said that the charger had a gas leak or something, missing friday testing. ran 1 respectable lap and the clutch wouldnt release due to a bleeder valve or something. guess i dont have all the forenstances, but it all came down to " it never happened". i either read it or dreamt it. :shruggy:
Quote from: nvrbdn on February 03, 2011, 06:10:20 PM
i believe it was said that the charger had a gas leak or something, missing friday testing. ran 1 respectable lap and the clutch wouldnt release due to a bleeder valve or something. guess i dont have all the forenstances, but it all came down to " it never happened". i either read it or dreamt it. :shruggy:
Ohh... lots of stuff happened. But, I can't give it away yet! You have to wait until Saturday. ;)
how long after saturday do we wait till the dvd comes out? im expecting some "dan isms" and bloopers :2thumbs:
Quote from: nvrbdn on February 03, 2011, 08:20:17 PM
how long after saturday do we wait till the dvd comes out? im expecting some "dan isms" and bloopers :2thumbs:
They should be available in the Fall through sponsors and our site. We give SPEED a full year exclusive on the show.
Quote from: ccr-host on February 01, 2011, 11:53:21 AM
You buy parts don't you? :2thumbs:
From anyone that I knew moved body VINs or had them moved? No, I'll buy elsewhere.
Quote from: Alaskan_TA on February 04, 2011, 12:17:03 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on February 01, 2011, 11:53:21 AM
You buy parts don't you? :2thumbs:
From anyone that I knew moved body VINs or had them moved? No, I'll buy elsewhere.
You're entitled to your opinions. But, we've done this dance before.
Quote from: nvrbdn on February 03, 2011, 06:10:20 PM
i believe it was said that the charger had a gas leak or something, missing friday testing. ran 1 respectable lap and the clutch wouldnt release due to a bleeder valve or something. guess i dont have all the forenstances, but it all came down to " it never happened". i either read it or dreamt it. :shruggy:
Ya I seem to remember something now.I figured I would ask instead of looking thought almost 40 pages. Is the show still half an hour or is the last one an hour? Should be good. :2thumbs:
Quote from: lexxman on February 04, 2011, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: nvrbdn on February 03, 2011, 06:10:20 PM
i believe it was said that the charger had a gas leak or something, missing friday testing. ran 1 respectable lap and the clutch wouldnt release due to a bleeder valve or something. guess i dont have all the forenstances, but it all came down to " it never happened". i either read it or dreamt it. :shruggy:
Ya I seem to remember something now.I figured I would ask instead of looking thought almost 40 pages. Is the show still half an hour or is the last one an hour? Should be good. :2thumbs:
No, all shows are 1/2 hour long. But, we had enough material to make it an hour... It's hard to get the crew to turn off their camera's when they're at a show like SEMA and seeing all those babes! :drool5:
So an outakes dvd is in the works? :D
Quote from: Ghoste on February 04, 2011, 06:09:52 PM
So an outakes dvd is in the works? :D
You bet! It will be on the DVD... Grrrr! :drool5:
Hey Dan, I hope you plan to hang around here since the car is or will be done soon.
A "SEMA Babe" out-take collection should sell! :drool5:
Quote from: TruckDriver on February 04, 2011, 07:24:39 PM
Hey Dan, I hope you plan to hang around here since the car is or will be done soon.
I certainly will. They still can't get rid of me on the Bricklin board. :icon_smile_big:
I may have to split some of my time on Abodies.com next season, though.
Dan that's http://www.forabodiesonly.com :icon_smile_big:
Or www.bigblockdart.com :yesnod: if you have your heart set on little cars.
The road runner would be better totally different car then that charger.
So were is the charger now what are it's plans?
Okay, I'm watching the last episode of this series right now.
Man! That Charger sure looks good!
It's such a luxury in this day and age to not only be able to buy a brand new 426 Hemi, but all of the sheetmetal needed to resurrect a 1969 Dodge Charger! Who could have ever anticipated this?
Now to see how it did against that Supercharged 'Vette.....
hmmmmm.....14.7 @ 93 mph........FACK!!! :rotz:
i would have expected more of a launch, but that was a good finish to take her out for a run after the fact. good job recapping the build. the car was absolutely awesome at sema. too much time spent on the vette :smilielol: great show dan. :2thumbs:
Quote from: Magnumcharger on February 05, 2011, 08:16:38 AM
Okay, I'm watching the last episode of this series right now.
Man! That Charger sure looks good!
It's such a luxury in this day and age to not only be able to buy a brand new 426 Hemi, but all of the sheetmetal needed to resurrect a 1969 Dodge Charger! Who could have ever anticipated this?
Now to see how it did against that Supercharged 'Vette.....
hmmmmm.....14.7 @ 93 mph........FACK!!! :rotz:
the driiver was a little suspect :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :nana:
Quote from: Magnumcharger on February 05, 2011, 08:16:38 AM
hmmmmm.....14.7 @ 93 mph........FACK!!! :rotz:
*chuckle* even I could stomp that ... hehehe
Bricklins, i like Bricklins
WOW :o Dan you need one more episode my stock 09 Challenger can do better than that :nana:
what was with the plastic bag at the back of the carbs in the sema shots and the green tape on the water pump? :'( :'( :'(
P.S. I still enjoyed the show and your post on DC.com :popcrn:
Quote from: moparstuart on February 05, 2011, 09:59:38 AM
Quote from: Magnumcharger on February 05, 2011, 08:16:38 AM
Okay, I'm watching the last episode of this series right now.
Man! That Charger sure looks good!
It's such a luxury in this day and age to not only be able to buy a brand new 426 Hemi, but all of the sheetmetal needed to resurrect a 1969 Dodge Charger! Who could have ever anticipated this?
Now to see how it did against that Supercharged 'Vette.....
hmmmmm.....14.7 @ 93 mph........FACK!!! :rotz:
the driiver was a little suspect :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big: :nana:
The driver was lost more than suspect... Did you all see the smoke? Made me a little nervous, so I let up a little and the Vette blew by me. But, I had his butt off the line!
Quote from: thedodgeboys on February 05, 2011, 01:01:18 PM
WOW :o Dan you need one more episode my stock 09 Challenger can do better than that :nana:
what was with the plastic bag at the back of the carbs in the sema shots and the green tape on the water pump? :'( :'( :'(
P.S. I still enjoyed the show and your post on DC.com :popcrn:
Damn... I knew we forgot something! :brickwall:
Quote from: BigBlockSam on February 05, 2011, 12:03:51 PM
Bricklins, i like Bricklins
Yes, there's so few cars that require protective headgear when exiting and entering. :rofl:
Like I've said before, I really like your show. I always can't wait for the next season, I've liked the different cars and trucks that have had restored, with your help. Thanks for having the show for all of us motorheads!!! :2thumbs:
Quote from: FlatbackFanatic on February 05, 2011, 01:56:19 PM
Like I've said before, I really like your show. I always can't wait for the next season, I've liked the different cars and trucks that have had restored, with your help. Thanks for having the show for all of us motorheads!!! :2thumbs:
I only do it because they pay me! :icon_smile_wink:
The Corvette didn't do so well either...a new showroom stock 2010 Corvette would have kicked its ass
Overall you did a great job Dan, I really enjoyed this series. Your narration was top notch as usual.
Of course, the final bit of business concerning this Charger should involve taking it back to a track and getting a REAL timeslip out of it.
Since this is Shaffi's car, and it appears that it was HIS company's transmission that caused all the problems at the Pinks shoot-out, then he MUST vindicate both this car and his company by proving the worth of his components!
If I was Ray Barton, I'd ask for my engine back! :flame:
Quote from: Magnumcharger on February 05, 2011, 06:17:54 PM
Of course, the final bit of business concerning this Charger should involve taking it back to a track and getting a REAL timeslip out of it.
Since this is Shaffi's car, and it appears that it was HIS company's transmission that caused all the problems at the Pinks shoot-out, then he MUST vindicate both this car and his company by proving the worth of his components!
If I was Ray Barton, I'd ask for my engine back! :flame:
What he said......
Quote from: Sydmoe on February 05, 2011, 07:00:55 PM
What he said......
:iagree: I really wanted to see what the old gal was capable of..... fuggetabout that Corvette. :moon:
Well, I did learn one thing from today's episode....
I'll be buying All of my transmission stuff from....
...Passon's :drive:
http://www.passonperformance.com/
Quote from: ccr-host on February 05, 2011, 01:43:07 PM
The driver was lost more than suspect... Did you all see the smoke? Made me a little nervous, so I let up a little and the Vette blew by me. But, I had his butt off the line!
Something else you'll learn about Mopar. The first few generation Hemi crate motors are pretty much junk & all bellow blue smoke fresh out of the crate.
You sure this is a Barton motor & not a MP boat anchor? :ohhthesarcasm:
Quote from: Daytona R/T SE on February 05, 2011, 11:30:04 PM
Well, I did learn one thing from today's episode....
I'll be buying All of my transmission stuff from....
...Passon's :drive:
http://www.passonperformance.com/
I'm sure everything you try works perfectly the first time, right? ;) This was a car with less than 50 miles on it and a prototype transmission. The tranny itself performed great. The problem was the clutch pressure, which could have been an installation problem too. It worked great a week later in California! But, I'm sure Passon transmissions are perfect and have never had problems! I hear they don't even tell you their return address because nothing ever needs to be returned! :icon_smile_big: Get a grip! Would you prefer we lie and tell you everything was a perfect fit and there were no problems? That kind of television is available, if you prefer it.
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on February 06, 2011, 12:44:44 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on February 05, 2011, 01:43:07 PM
The driver was lost more than suspect... Did you all see the smoke? Made me a little nervous, so I let up a little and the Vette blew by me. But, I had his butt off the line!
Something else you'll learn about Mopar. The first few generation Hemi crate motors are pretty much junk & all bellow blue smoke fresh out of the crate.
You sure this is a Barton motor & not a MP boat anchor? :ohhthesarcasm:
We checked into it and it was a small leak at the rear main that went un-noticed during the dyno test and we didn't push the engine very hard on the road tests so it wasn't noticable. It was a quick fix. Ahh, the bumps and grinds of a hand built car! Nothing new there. ::)
Can't wait to see the final few episodes of your show Dan.
I've been watching recorded episodes so far and can't wait to catch up.
Anyone ever tell you that you remind them of Tim Allen? (Din mean that in a bad way btw)
Quote from: ccr-host on February 06, 2011, 05:55:00 AM
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on February 06, 2011, 12:44:44 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on February 05, 2011, 01:43:07 PM
The driver was lost more than suspect... Did you all see the smoke? Made me a little nervous, so I let up a little and the Vette blew by me. But, I had his butt off the line!
Something else you'll learn about Mopar. The first few generation Hemi crate motors are pretty much junk & all bellow blue smoke fresh out of the crate.
You sure this is a Barton motor & not a MP boat anchor? :ohhthesarcasm:
We checked into it and it was a small leak at the rear main that went un-noticed during the dyno test and we didn't push the engine very hard on the road tests so it wasn't noticable. It was a quick fix. Ahh, the bumps and grinds of a hand built car! Nothing new there. ::)
Dan, working out the kinks in a new car build is nothing new to any of us. In fact, it would have been entirely reasonable to see an entire episode of CCR devoted to seeing how much of the Charger's components had to be readjusted.
I fully realize that you all were under a time crunch. And it was entirely unreasonable for you to have to test a completely unproven product against a factory-built performance car, albeit with an add-on supercharger.
For all of us hangers-on, faithfully watching this series unfold over the course of the last few months, and waving the Charger banner in support of this build, to have this wrap up in the manner it has is very disappointing.
To save face, and to prove it's worth, I'm going to ask you and Shafi Keisler to take the Charger back to an official racetrack and get a REAL run in.
Post the video on your Youtube CCR page.
We NEED some better numbers than that!! - If only for closure.
I don't know that I would have anything bad to say about Passon in any way. Their reputation is as good and probably much better than a lot of other companies in the aftermarket industry. Especially on the customer service front.
QuoteWe NEED some better numbers than that!! - If only for closure.
Even the numbers for the vette are off.
in comparison what would a 69 charger right off the showroom floor with a hemi,4 speed run in the quarter? i know some of you guys would have those #'s and that is with drum brakes, old school front suspension etc....... :shruggy:
Looking at a old road test of a charger 500,hemi 4spd 3.23- 13.60 107 mph.
Looks like that is on a F70 series tire.
A different mag ran a 13.48 109mph with a car having a 4.10 rear gear.
Quote from: UFO on February 06, 2011, 11:25:26 AM
Looking at a old road test of a charger 500,hemi 4spd 3.23- 13.60 107 mph.
Looks like that is on a F70 series tire.
A different mag ran a 13.48 109mph with a car having a 4.10 rear gear.
Exactly! Stock 425hp 426 Hemi, narrow bias-ply tires, no traction compound, no advantageous first gear, no overdrive top gear, no lightweight wheels and tube front suspension, no aluminum heads or lightweight headers, and the list goes on.
This Hemified Charger should have been into the 12s, if not lower. My :Twocents:
I would think that both cars should have been a couple seconds quicker.
Quote from: Magnumcharger on February 06, 2011, 10:16:25 AM
Dan, working out the kinks in a new car build is nothing new to any of us. In fact, it would have been entirely reasonable to see an entire episode of CCR devoted to seeing how much of the Charger's components had to be readjusted.
I fully realize that you all were under a time crunch. And it was entirely unreasonable for you to have to test a completely unproven product against a factory-built performance car, albeit with an add-on supercharger.
For all of us hangers-on, faithfully watching this series unfold over the course of the last few months, and waving the Charger banner in support of this build, to have this wrap up in the manner it has is very disappointing.
To save face, and to prove it's worth, I'm going to ask you and Shafi Keisler to take the Charger back to an official racetrack and get a REAL run in.
Post the video on your Youtube CCR page.
We NEED some better numbers than that!! - If only for closure.
Don't be surprised to see that happen. We pushed the teams very hard to meet two very different deadlines this season.
1. Build a showcar
2. Build a racecar
And we made them do it to the same car.
Dialing any car in is seldom a wham-bam onetime thing. That's why you see so many burnout marks in industrial areas. I'm sure the next time the Charger goes to the track; it will be a second faster. Then a second faster again on the third date. The set up was done so quickly it was mostly guess work. The down time between Pinks All Out and California Speedway was spent primarily fixing the gas leak properly and the throw-out replacement. Don't be too disappointed. Time is a great equalizer. Given more time, I have no doubt that Charger would run in the high 12's... with a different driver of course! :lol:
Quote from: Magnumcharger on February 06, 2011, 11:33:24 AM
Quote from: UFO on February 06, 2011, 11:25:26 AM
Looking at a old road test of a charger 500,hemi 4spd 3.23- 13.60 107 mph.
Looks like that is on a F70 series tire.
A different mag ran a 13.48 109mph with a car having a 4.10 rear gear.
Exactly! Stock 425hp 426 Hemi, narrow bias-ply tires, no traction compound, no advantageous first gear, no overdrive top gear, no lightweight wheels and tube front suspension, no aluminum heads or lightweight headers, and the list goes on.
This Hemified Charger should have been into the 12s, if not lower. My :Twocents:
We don't have aluminum heads and we didn't have any traction compound. The wheels are show wheels, they weigh almost as much as steel wheels. the header weight isn't much different than stock manifolds They simply provide better flow. The only weight reduction we did was to remove the console and that was simply to improve the shift range throw.
Guys, the biggest improvement would have been behind the wheel. This was only my second time driving at the strip. I was just proud that I didn't red-light! :2thumbs:
Did you 3 pedal it @ the line?
We need to get you up to speed somehow Dan. You should have taken a little time off before the shoot to have some secret dragstrip time with a willing tutor so we could mold you into your own ringer. :icon_smile_big:
dan you driving would be like me driving butterflies and out of element (of course my element has become a recliner and tv). and we understand the need for qualifing runs to work the bugs out. my buddy needs 3 trips to the track to be totally ready to put the chebbys and dorfs on the trailer. the show went well and held its own at sema. now for the dvd throw us dogs a bone with that thing roasting tires in the water box and launching like we know it should. :2thumbs:
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on February 06, 2011, 01:09:42 PM
Did you 3 pedal it @ the line?
Not on the line. But, I did in the waterbox. It fishtailed nicely.
The suspension was very stiff and it didn't spin at all. I think I had a car length on him right at the start.
One of the hardest things to capture on film is the sense of speed because the camera pans with the cars as they pass so it creates an illussion of a slower speed.
I'll tell you all, I'd be happy to take some practice runs. But, not in the Charger. Beating the snot out of a showcar on the strip is a little nerve-racking.
After seeing the latest edition of the show and really taking a good look at the Corvette, I just have to say that it's just plain fugly.
Quote from: Magnumcharger on February 06, 2011, 11:33:24 AM
Quote from: UFO on February 06, 2011, 11:25:26 AM
Looking at a old road test of a charger 500,hemi 4spd 3.23- 13.60 107 mph.
Looks like that is on a F70 series tire.
A different mag ran a 13.48 109mph with a car having a 4.10 rear gear.
Exactly! Stock 425hp 426 Hemi, narrow bias-ply tires, no traction compound, no advantageous first gear, no overdrive top gear, no lightweight wheels and tube front suspension, no aluminum heads or lightweight headers, and the list goes on.
This Hemified Charger should have been into the 12s, if not lower. My :Twocents:
With all due respect, I have more than 40 original 426 Hemi car road tests, many of which were performed on 9" wide drag slicks prior running. Some were driven by professional drag racers like Ronnie Sox. Many were professionally tuned/"tweaked" on the spot by factory mechanics. And some were factory "ringers." And the only example I'm aware of that touched 109 MPH on the quarter was a Ronnie Sox driven Road Runner that has been fitted with a "Racer Brown" cam and open headers.
Despite all that, not a single one cracked the 13.2 barrier and most of them were slower. 105.5 MPH was considered very fast for a truly production line stock 426 Hemi Charger, as obtained by CAR LIFE in 1969.
The engine was rated at 425 Gross HP; it produced roughly 375 SAE Net HP when "perfectly tuned" (but otherwise bone stock), which is the way engines in the US have been rated since the 1972 model year. Truly production line stock 426 Hemi cars have difficulty cracking 300 rear wheel horsepower on Dynojet inertia dynos.
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/featuredvehicles/late_model/mopp_9912_hemi_vs_viper_roadtest/index.html
In fact, Dodge and Plymouth provided both gross AND net HP figures in their 1971 product literature and they rated the 426 Hemi at 350 SAE Net HP. http://www.stockmopar.com/_images/brochures/1971-plymouth-rapid-transit-system-brochure/1971-plymouth-rapid-transit-system-brochure-12.jpg
Hemi cars running in NHRA "stock" classes in the sixties had difficulty getting into the mid twelves and they were allowed to run mods - like open long tube headers, blueprinted to NHRA tech spec engines, 9" wide drag slicks, indexed valve trains and hotter-than-production cam grinds. Virtually all of the Hemis running in those classes ran huge gears (i.e. 4.56 axle ratios). The cars running in "Super Stock" classes got into the high elevens, but they were allowed to run many more mods (radical cams, any intake/carb arrangements, worked cylinder heads, etc. Those produced roughly 550 - 575 "as installed" HP - 200 more HP than the production line stock 426 Hemi street cars.
So what a production line stock '68+ Hemi Charger boils downs to is a 4,100 pound+ car powered by a 350 - 375 HP engine. That's not an overly fast car by modern standards. It could be MADE much faster through modifications, but so can most other cars.
"Stock" 426 street Hemis today can make as much as 450 Net HP on Shell 93 V-Power gas, but those "stock" engines aren't stock. They're running modern cam grinds (often times roller cams), lightweight rods and pistons, worked cylinder heads, port-matched intake and exhaust manifolds, mandrel bent, 2-1/2" custom exhaust systems with low restriction, modern mufflers.
A new, bone stock, base engine Corvette will still smoke that.
Quote from: harddrivin1le on February 06, 2011, 08:29:31 PM
Quote from: Magnumcharger on February 06, 2011, 11:33:24 AM
Quote from: UFO on February 06, 2011, 11:25:26 AM
Looking at a old road test of a charger 500,hemi 4spd 3.23- 13.60 107 mph.
Looks like that is on a F70 series tire.
A different mag ran a 13.48 109mph with a car having a 4.10 rear gear.
Exactly! Stock 425hp 426 Hemi, narrow bias-ply tires, no traction compound, no advantageous first gear, no overdrive top gear, no lightweight wheels and tube front suspension, no aluminum heads or lightweight headers, and the list goes on.
This Hemified Charger should have been into the 12s, if not lower. My :Twocents:
With all due respect, I have more than 40 original 426 Hemi car road tests, many of which were performed on 9" wide drag slicks prior running. Some were driven by professional drag racers like Ronnie Sox. Many were professionally tuned/"tweaked" on the spot by factory mechanics. And some were factory "ringers." And the only example I'm aware of that touched 109 MPH on the quarter was a Ronnie Sox driven Road Runner that has been fitted with a "Racer Brown" cam and open headers.
Despite all that, not a single one cracked the 13.2 barrier and most of them were slower. 105 MPH was considered very fast for a truly production line stock 426 Hemi Charger, as obtained by CAR LIFE in 1969.
The engine was rated at 425 Gross HP; it produced roughly 375 SAE Net HP when "perfectly tuned" (but otherwise bone stock), which is the way engines in the US have been rated since the 1972 model year. Truly production line stock 426 Hemi cars have difficulty cracking 300 rear wheel horsepower on Dynojet inertia dynos.
In fact, Dodge and Plymouth provided both gross AND net HP figures in their 1971 product literature and they rated the 426 Hemi at 350 SAE Net HP. http://www.stockmopar.com/_images/brochures/1971-plymouth-rapid-transit-system-brochure/1971-plymouth-rapid-transit-system-brochure-12.jpg
So what a '68+ Hemi Charger boils downs to is a 4,100 pound+ car powered by a 350 - 375 HP engine. That's not a fact car by modern standards. It could be MADE much faster through modifications, but so can most other cars.
So why is there so much hype over a HEMI Engine? a 440 can reach that HP with little modifications.
Quote from: ccr-host on February 06, 2011, 03:10:26 PM
I think I had a car length on him right at the start.
Didn't Laurent the Vette driver say they had to start the Vette off in second gear?.......if so, not much of a feat there Dan! :D
Quote from: Sydmoe on February 06, 2011, 08:53:30 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on February 06, 2011, 03:10:26 PM
I think I had a car length on him right at the start.
Didn't Laurent the Vette driver say they had to start the Vette off in second gear?.......if so, not much of a feat there Dan! :D
That's what he "said"... But, what he "did" may not be the same thing. He's crafty! :smoke:
I liked the Vette....they did a nice job on that one as well.
Flame suit on!! ;)
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on February 06, 2011, 11:31:32 PM
I liked the Vette....they did a nice job on that one as well.
Flame suit on!! ;)
Did 'ya say flame suit?!?! ;)
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on February 06, 2011, 11:31:32 PM
I liked the Vette....they did a nice job on that one as well.
Flame suit on!! ;)
being a vette dis liker (does that work?) i thought it was kinda cool how they chopped it up to make the panels. actually i cheered while they cut up a new vette and cried "NO" when they started putting it back together. :nana:
Quote from: nvrbdn on February 07, 2011, 10:12:38 AM
Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on February 06, 2011, 11:31:32 PM
I liked the Vette....they did a nice job on that one as well.
Flame suit on!! ;)
being a vette dis liker (does that work?) i thought it was kinda cool how they chopped it up to make the panels. actually i cheered while they cut up a new vette and cried "NO" when they started putting it back together. :nana:
LMAO
So, the cycle has started again today. If anyone missed any episodes, your chance for redemption has arrived! :smilielol:
Quote from: ccr-host on February 13, 2011, 01:06:30 PM
So, the cycle has started again today. If anyone missed any episodes, your chance for redemption has arrived! :smilielol:
You will have to excuse my late arrival to the scene. I discovered last night that Dish has slipped Speed back into my programming package. I haven't yet determined if its one of their "free previews" but I was in the office this AM trying to figure out when the next show was on to start DVRing the show. Did I miss a rebroadcast of the first episode?
Either Speed TV's website blows or I am just a lame navigator but I couldn't find anything that looked like an episode guide for Season 7? At least not one that made it clear that these X episodes are season 7 and this was their original broadcast order. :shruggy:
http://www.speedtv.com/programs/chop-cut-rebuild/episodes/ (http://www.speedtv.com/programs/chop-cut-rebuild/episodes/)
It also seems that none of it is filmed in HD? [Edit] Nevermind - the main page made the HD question obvious.
Removing double post.... Guess I answered my question about my navigation skills. :brickwall:
yea , over the weekend they had the first episode. but your in luck because every weekend they re-show the week before then the new episode. so next weekend you should get 1 & 2. thats if they do it the same as last time.
A little of the topic, but Dan what do you have in your own personal garage? if you don't mind me asking. :2thumbs:
Quote from: bakerhillpins on February 14, 2011, 09:19:59 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on February 13, 2011, 01:06:30 PM
So, the cycle has started again today. If anyone missed any episodes, your chance for redemption has arrived! :smilielol:
You will have to excuse my late arrival to the scene. I discovered last night that Dish has slipped Speed back into my programming package. I haven't yet determined if its one of their "free previews" but I was in the office this AM trying to figure out when the next show was on to start DVRing the show. Did I miss a rebroadcast of the first episode?
Next Saturday at 6:30 central time is the repeat and seven is the next new one. BTW if you go to the search function of your sat box and type in Chop Cut rebuild it will find them for you. :)
Quote from: thedodgeboys on February 14, 2011, 08:14:31 PM
Next Saturday at 6:30 central time is the repeat and seven is the next new one. BTW if you go to the search function of your sat box and type in Chop Cut rebuild it will find them for you. :)
Yep, I found it with the programming guide as it saves me typing it in with a remote. And I thought typing on phones was annoying. Sheesh.
As it turns out SPEED is a free preview for this month. So looks like I will get about 4-5 shows and then that's it. Have to wait for syndication.
Quote from: Back N Black on February 14, 2011, 07:19:38 PM
A little of the topic, but Dan what do you have in your own personal garage? if you don't mind me asking. :2thumbs:
Great question! ...I'd love to know :2thumbs:
IIRC he has/had a Bricklin....other than that maybe a Prius?
:nana:
Quote from: Back N Black on February 06, 2011, 08:39:46 PM
Quote from: harddrivin1le on February 06, 2011, 08:29:31 PM
Quote from: Magnumcharger on February 06, 2011, 11:33:24 AM
Quote from: UFO on February 06, 2011, 11:25:26 AM
Looking at a old road test of a charger 500,hemi 4spd 3.23- 13.60 107 mph.
Looks like that is on a F70 series tire.
A different mag ran a 13.48 109mph with a car having a 4.10 rear gear.
Exactly! Stock 425hp 426 Hemi, narrow bias-ply tires, no traction compound, no advantageous first gear, no overdrive top gear, no lightweight wheels and tube front suspension, no aluminum heads or lightweight headers, and the list goes on.
This Hemified Charger should have been into the 12s, if not lower. My :Twocents:
With all due respect, I have more than 40 original 426 Hemi car road tests, many of which were performed on 9" wide drag slicks prior running. Some were driven by professional drag racers like Ronnie Sox. Many were professionally tuned/"tweaked" on the spot by factory mechanics. And some were factory "ringers." And the only example I'm aware of that touched 109 MPH on the quarter was a Ronnie Sox driven Road Runner that has been fitted with a "Racer Brown" cam and open headers.
Despite all that, not a single one cracked the 13.2 barrier and most of them were slower. 105 MPH was considered very fast for a truly production line stock 426 Hemi Charger, as obtained by CAR LIFE in 1969.
The engine was rated at 425 Gross HP; it produced roughly 375 SAE Net HP when "perfectly tuned" (but otherwise bone stock), which is the way engines in the US have been rated since the 1972 model year. Truly production line stock 426 Hemi cars have difficulty cracking 300 rear wheel horsepower on Dynojet inertia dynos.
In fact, Dodge and Plymouth provided both gross AND net HP figures in their 1971 product literature and they rated the 426 Hemi at 350 SAE Net HP. http://www.stockmopar.com/_images/brochures/1971-plymouth-rapid-transit-system-brochure/1971-plymouth-rapid-transit-system-brochure-12.jpg
So what a '68+ Hemi Charger boils downs to is a 4,100 pound+ car powered by a 350 - 375 HP engine. That's not a fact car by modern standards. It could be MADE much faster through modifications, but so can most other cars.
So why is there so much hype over a HEMI Engine? a 440 can reach that HP with little modifications.
ZACTLY!!! Finally, someone asked this question.....I've been saying this for YEARS.....
saying it for years? I always piss the HEMI people off with that, more power cheaper with the 440 :-)
Quote from: Cooter on February 14, 2011, 09:30:41 PM
ZACTLY!!! Finally, someone asked this question.....I've been saying this for YEARS.....
Quote from: Khyron on February 15, 2011, 12:17:41 AM
saying it for years? I always piss the HEMI people off with that, more power cheaper with the 440 :-)
On behalf of Hemi people, we know what you've both been saying for years. You're right. So now what. :shruggy:
You can also go much faster for a lot less money by putting a hot engine into a Plymouth Scamp.
So why are we on a site with all the cool kids? :icon_smile_wink:
i knew a guy that put a 440 in a gremlin. it was mean if you could keep it planted.
Quote from: Back N Black on February 14, 2011, 07:19:38 PM
A little of the topic, but Dan what do you have in your own personal garage? if you don't mind me asking. :2thumbs:
I just sold my Bricklin at the Russo & Steele auction - not Barrett-Jackson! :o)
In the driveway at the moment is a 1972 Beetle I just bought for my daughter from an impound. She's working with Josh at Hot Rod's to get it up and going. It's running pretty sweet right now. She wants to restore it and start a blog on how to do it cheaper than her Dad can do it. :2thumbs:
There is also a very nice, copper colored 1969 Charger arriving in a few days for a visit. The grocery getter is a 2003 Xterra and the production van is there too.
Looking for a 23 - 25 ft. RV for this season's mobile office to add to the fleet.
Hmmm, I thought you would have somewhat of a "collection" :scratchchin:
Quote from: TUFCAT on February 16, 2011, 02:11:13 PM
Hmmm, I thought you would have somewhat of a "collection" :scratchchin:
Hah! :rofl: I suspect that Dan has to
work for a living like the rest of us. Good show, by the way. I don't believe I have said that yet. :2thumbs:
Dan
Quote from: Dans 68 on February 16, 2011, 02:19:04 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on February 16, 2011, 02:11:13 PM
Hmmm, I thought you would have somewhat of a "collection" :scratchchin:
Hah! :rofl: I suspect that Dan has to work for a living like the rest of us. Good show, by the way. I don't believe I have said that yet. :2thumbs:
Dan
You are correct, sir! :icon_smile_big:
OK, here's something for those who wanted a piece of the XP Charger. The car has been returned to its original SEMA presentation condition. So, we are selling the complete MSD ignition system used on the show for the track passes... AND the cheater slicks used on the track.
There are two separate auctions:
Ignition Kit. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180627331282
Drag Tires. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180627159248&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
Quote from: TUFCAT on February 16, 2011, 02:11:13 PM
Hmmm, I thought you would have somewhat of a "collection" :scratchchin:
The only thing I seem to collect is BILLS! I've got a nice stack of them right now. ;)
Quote from: ccr-host on February 17, 2011, 12:24:33 AM
OK, here's something for those who wanted a piece of the XP Charger. The car has been returned to its original SEMA presentation condition. So, we are selling the complete MSD ignition system used on the show for the track passes... AND the cheater slicks used on the track.
There are two separate auctions:
Drag Tires. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180627159248&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
Thats a sweet deal those tires have never been smoked :nana: :nana: :hah:
Quote from: 68X426 on February 15, 2011, 02:23:05 AM
On behalf of Hemi people, we know what you've both been saying for years. You're right. So now what. :shruggy:
admit you luv me :nana:
Quote from: thedodgeboys on February 17, 2011, 08:15:39 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on February 17, 2011, 12:24:33 AM
OK, here's something for those who wanted a piece of the XP Charger. The car has been returned to its original SEMA presentation condition. So, we are selling the complete MSD ignition system used on the show for the track passes... AND the cheater slicks used on the track.
There are two separate auctions:
Drag Tires. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180627159248&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
Thats a sweet deal those tires have never been smoked :nana: :nana: :hah:
Painfully true! :rotz:
Quote from: ccr-host on February 17, 2011, 12:24:33 AM
OK, here's something for those who wanted a piece of the XP Charger. The car has been returned to its original SEMA presentation condition. So, we are selling the complete MSD ignition system used on the show for the track passes... AND the cheater slicks used on the track.
There are two separate auctions:
Ignition Kit. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180627331282
Drag Tires. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180627159248&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
Hey??? Isn't anyone here bidding on this stuff?? If you are, let me know and I'll throw in an autographed CCR license plate for you... with Josh from Hot Rods signature :smilielol: ...Just kidding.
Cool where can I see the episode or download? Woulde love to see it! how that charger gets restored!
WANT THE SHORT OR LONG STORY:::: GET A 69 CHARGER,CUT INTO A MILLION PIECES.SAVE THE VIN TAG DASH MAYBE AND WINSHIELD POST AND INNER ROOF TIN.SAVE MISC BRAKETS AND ????? REPLACE THE BODY AND DRIVE TRAIN AND PAINTAND ASSEMBLE........THE END.. :icon_smile_blackeye: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :smilielol:
JUST KIDDING CAR CAME OUT GREAT ,LOOKS GREAT,AND CAUSED 41 PAGES HERE.. :2thumbs: :drool5: :drool5:
Dan, why buy a collection of cool musclecars when you get to drive them for free. Sort of the old saying of why buy the cow....My only hope is that all the critics haven't soured you and your show on maybe saving another Mopar someday that otherwise probably would have been reclaimed by mother earth if you guys hadn't stepped in.
Quote from: ccr-host on February 22, 2011, 06:59:01 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on February 17, 2011, 12:24:33 AM
OK, here's something for those who wanted a piece of the XP Charger. The car has been returned to its original SEMA presentation condition. So, we are selling the complete MSD ignition system used on the show for the track passes... AND the cheater slicks used on the track.
There are two separate auctions:
Ignition Kit. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180627331282
Drag Tires. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180627159248&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
this stuff doesnt do me any good, i have 383's and 15" wheels. :rotz:
Hey??? Isn't anyone here bidding on this stuff?? If you are, let me know and I'll throw in an autographed CCR license plate for you... with Josh from Hot Rods signature :smilielol: ...Just kidding.
More of me to mock... This friday (March 18th) I will be talking with Fireball Tim and DB over at the Hollywood Garage podcast. If any of you would like to give it a listen, it will be episode #6 here's the link: http://thehollywoodgarage.com
I'm sure they'll have lots of questions about the Charger and the Vette this season. Also, some insight to our new season, which just started production... Of course there will be the manditory "make fun of Canadians" segment, too. ::)
what are the cars this season?
Quote from: ccr-host on March 15, 2011, 02:05:29 PM
More of me to mock... This friday (March 18th) I will be talking with Fireball Tim and DB over at the Hollywood Garage podcast. If any of you would like to give it a listen, it will be episode #6 here's the link: http://thehollywoodgarage.com
I'm sure they'll have lots of questions about the Charger and the Vette this season. Also, some insight to our new season, which just started production... Of course there will be the manditory "make fun of Canadians" segment, too. ::)
That sounds good Dan,I will have to check that out. Now why would anyone make fun of us Canadians.Eh :lol:
Quote from: TUFCAT on March 15, 2011, 03:48:22 PM
what are the cars this season?
I let it out during the interview. It will be up on Friday at: http://thehollywoodgarage.com
The interview with Fireball Tim and DB, is now up and on-line at: www.thehollywoodgarage.com
1972 Hemi powered Duster and 1941 Willy's.
Quote from: TUFCAT on March 20, 2011, 11:46:54 AM
1972 Hemi powered Duster and 1941 Willy's.
Yea! That's one new listener for Fireball Tim :cheers:
BTW, it's the Gen. III Hemi. Fuel injected! It's going to be "very" custom.
The first 17 minutes before they interviewed Dan was a train wreck ... :eek2:
Dan stole the show - thank God!
Quote from: ccr-host on March 20, 2011, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on March 20, 2011, 11:46:54 AM
1972 Hemi powered Duster and 1941 Willy's.
Yea! That's one new listener for Fireball Tim :cheers:
BTW, it's the Gen. III Hemi. Fuel injected! It's going to be "very" custom.
Dan, it sounds cool what ECM will you guys use for that hemi?
A-A-A----ABODY WITH A HEMI---------- :2thumbs:
I VOTE NEW CAR=======NEW SEASON=======NEW THREAD,,,,,,,,PLEASE
GET SOME IDEAS FROM THE, DARTONA & PICS OF WING CARS NOT FACTORY BASE,THREAD?? MAYBE ADD A DAYTONA WING AND CUSTOM NOSE CONE AND RUN IT ON THE SALT FLATS..
THANKS AND GOOD LUCK KEEPING THE PEACE WITH THIS MOPAR
STILL LOV THE 69 CHARGER BUILD, :popcrn: :popcrn: :2thumbs:
Quote from: thedodgeboys on March 21, 2011, 05:08:01 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on March 20, 2011, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on March 20, 2011, 11:46:54 AM
1972 Hemi powered Duster and 1941 Willy's.
Yea! That's one new listener for Fireball Tim :cheers:
BTW, it's the Gen. III Hemi. Fuel injected! It's going to be "very" custom.
Dan, it sounds cool what ECM will you guys use for that hemi?
TCI is supplying the trans and an ECM.
Quote from: djcarguy on March 21, 2011, 05:47:24 AM
A-A-A----ABODY WITH A HEMI----------
I VOTE NEW CAR=======NEW SEASON=======NEW THREAD,,,,,,,,PLEASE
GET SOME IDEAS FROM THE DARTONA&PICS OF WING CARS NOT FACTORY BASE??????? MAYBE ADD A DAYTONA WING AND CUSTOM NOSE CONE AND RUN IT ON THE SALT FLATS..
THANKS AND GOOD LUCK KEEPING THE PEACE WITH THIS MOPAR
STILL LOV THE 69 CHARGER BUILD, :popcrn: :popcrn: :2thumbs:
Yep, it should stir the pot pretty good here! :icon_smile_big:
But a Hemi is still a Hemi and we found a simple run of the mill VIN this time, so it should calm a few nerves... Ghoste may even tolerate it :smilielol:
I'm all in favor of a new thread, if it's appropriate. But, I do like seeing that 41,000 plus hits on this thread. :2thumbs:
Quote from: TUFCAT on March 20, 2011, 03:07:52 PM
The first 17 minutes before they interviewed Dan was a train wreck ... :eek2:
Dan stole the show - thank God!
I thought all they did for the first 17 minutes was talk about having me as their guest! :smilielol:
Quote from: thedodgeboys on March 21, 2011, 05:08:01 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on March 20, 2011, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on March 20, 2011, 11:46:54 AM
1972 Hemi powered Duster and 1941 Willy's.
Yea! That's one new listener for Fireball Tim :cheers:
BTW, it's the Gen. III Hemi. Fuel injected! It's going to be "very" custom.
Dan, it sounds cool what ECM will you guys use for that hemi?
Any others making an ECM for that engine package?
Quote from: ccr-host on March 21, 2011, 11:30:48 AM
Quote from: thedodgeboys on March 21, 2011, 05:08:01 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on March 20, 2011, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on March 20, 2011, 11:46:54 AM
1972 Hemi powered Duster and 1941 Willy's.
Yea! That's one new listener for Fireball Tim :cheers:
BTW, it's the Gen. III Hemi. Fuel injected! It's going to be "very" custom.
Dan, it sounds cool what ECM will you guys use for that hemi?
Any others making an ECM for that engine package?
Dan I did this build in my 70 challenger only I have 6.1 hemi with a 6-speed :coolgleamA:
AEM makes one through MOPAR parts, Fast has one and with the new EZ self tuning I would use that one IMHO and you can run the factory one for simple & cheap.
Those are the 3 most popular, some other stuff out there but I am not up on them I have experience with the other 3. :scratchchin:too bad your in California I would love to help. :cheers:
(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/thedodgeboy/car%20cal%20shots/DSC_0070.jpg)
That looks absolutely beautiful... great work! :cheers:
Quote from: thedodgeboys on March 21, 2011, 08:40:28 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on March 21, 2011, 11:30:48 AM
Quote from: thedodgeboys on March 21, 2011, 05:08:01 AM
Quote from: ccr-host on March 20, 2011, 02:37:30 PM
Quote from: TUFCAT on March 20, 2011, 11:46:54 AM
1972 Hemi powered Duster and 1941 Willy's.
Yea! That's one new listener for Fireball Tim :cheers:
BTW, it's the Gen. III Hemi. Fuel injected! It's going to be "very" custom.
Dan, it sounds cool what ECM will you guys use for that hemi?
Any others making an ECM for that engine package?
Dan I did this build in my 70 challenger only I have 6.1 hemi with a 6-speed :coolgleamA:
AEM makes one through MOPAR parts, Fast has one and with the new EZ self tuning I would use that one IMHO and you can run the factory one for simple & cheap.
Those are the 3 most popular, some other stuff out there but I am not up on them I have experience with the other 3. :scratchchin:too bad your in California I would love to help. :cheers:
(http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo154/thedodgeboy/car%20cal%20shots/DSC_0070.jpg)
Oh man, that is absolutely beautiful! Congrats!!
I'll look into the AEM and FAST packages.
:2thumbs:
A good read:
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/news/chop-cut-rebuild-dodge-charger-stirs-controversy/
Wonder what the camaro folks are saying about the "original vin" camaro's that were advertised a little while ago?
I didn't mention is before but now that I've seen the original trashed interior there's no "REVERSE" lock out light on the dash of either. :shruggy:
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on March 23, 2011, 07:39:25 PM
I didn't mention is before but now that I've seen the original trashed interior there's no "REVERSE" lock out light on the dash of either. :shruggy:
Was that a feature not on the 69's?
Quote from: ccr-host on March 23, 2011, 08:15:44 PM
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on March 23, 2011, 07:39:25 PM
I didn't mention is before but now that I've seen the original trashed interior there's no "REVERSE" lock out light on the dash of either. :shruggy:
Was that a feature not on the 69's?
All 69 4 speed cars should have it. Its another oddity of the Charger from your show.
Quote from: 1HotDaytona on March 23, 2011, 08:25:11 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on March 23, 2011, 08:15:44 PM
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on March 23, 2011, 07:39:25 PM
I didn't mention is before but now that I've seen the original trashed interior there's no "REVERSE" lock out light on the dash of either. :shruggy:
Was that a feature not on the 69's?
All 69 4 speed cars should have it. Its another oddity of the Charger from your show.
So, 69's have it. But, 68's do not?
Quote from: ccr-host on March 26, 2011, 03:25:53 PM
Quote from: 1HotDaytona on March 23, 2011, 08:25:11 PM
Quote from: ccr-host on March 23, 2011, 08:15:44 PM
Quote from: 472 R/T SE on March 23, 2011, 07:39:25 PM
I didn't mention is before but now that I've seen the original trashed interior there's no "REVERSE" lock out light on the dash of either. :shruggy:
Was that a feature not on the 69's?
All 69 4 speed cars should have it. Its another oddity of the Charger from your show.
So, 69's have it. But, 68's do not?
It started in 68 supposedly at the same time as the Husrst shifter instead of the inland unit.
The Inland had a positive reverse lock out. The Hurst didn't so they put an external "idiot light" on the dash.
I don't know what part of the year in '68 that Mopar switched over to Hurst.
'68 Inland. The Inland had the little tabs on either side below the shifter ball that you pulled up on for REVERSE.
(http://www.autotraderclassics.com/scaler/632/473/images/b/2010/05/12/63912125/0_10.jpg)
'68 Hurst
(http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=66263.0;attach=119391;image)
(http://www.collectioncar.com/files/1057-81290520023-8.jpg)
'69 console Hurst
(http://images.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/Interior.jpg)
Hey, that white and black interior above is from my buddy Peter Klutt's shop! Nice job Peter!! :2thumbs:
Peter Klutt...Legendary Auto Restorations.
I was driving from Barrie to Toronto the other day, passed through Bolton.
Someday, I'll have to see if I can get a look at his facilities!
Quote from: Magnumcharger on April 01, 2011, 09:24:15 AM
Peter Klutt...Legendary Auto Restorations.
I was driving from Barrie to Toronto the other day, passed through Bolton.
Someday, I'll have to see if I can get a look at his facilities!
Peter's shop is in Milton, just off the 401 at 5th line. Very nice place, almost a museum. Well worth the visit.
Quote from: Magnumcharger on March 23, 2011, 05:29:48 PM
A good read:
http://www.streetlegaltv.com/news/chop-cut-rebuild-dodge-charger-stirs-controversy/
Thank you. :icon_smile_big:
... and now a new adventure begins! A bodies anyone?
I saw the show this morning,the car looks pretty good to start with. :2thumbs:
Are you starting a new thread for it?
I agree, start a new thread for this car :2thumbs:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,85417.0.html (http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,85417.0.html)
:popcrn: :popcrn: :drool5: :drool5: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:Wheres the car now ??? wheres the show ??? :popcrn: :popcrn: :2thumbs:
Quote from: djcarguy on November 22, 2019, 10:37:30 PM
wheres the show ??? :popcrn: :popcrn: :2thumbs:
The producers didn't think the show was cutting it, so it was chopped.
Quote from: Mopar Nut on November 23, 2019, 01:17:29 AM
The producers didn't think the show was cutting it, so it was chopped.
I seen what you did there. :smilielol: :smilielol: :smilielol: